Hillary Clinton supports privacy rights, Republicans support a surveillance state

Le Jacquelope

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Republicans who read this thread would rather not discuss this. They hate citizens' privacy rights. It erodes at the powers of the corporate state and the totalitarian Big Brotherism that they're pushing in the name of the war on terror.

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,72549-0.html

Hillary: The Privacy Candidate?

By Sarah Lai Stirland| Also by this reporter
02:00 AM Jan, 24, 2007

The issue of digital-era privacy did not make it to the top of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's legislative to-do list at the Saturday launch of her presidential campaign. But for those who look, the New York Democrat has clearly staked out her positions on the esoteric subject, and they're sending electronic civil libertarians' hearts a twitter.

Clinton, the presidential front-runner among Democrats in way-early polling, addressed electronic privacy issues at a constitutional law conference in Washington, D.C. last June. There she unveiled a proposed "Privacy Bill of Rights" that would, among other things, give Americans the right to know what's being done with their personal information, and offer consumers an unprecedented level of control over how that data is used.

"At all levels, the privacy protections for ordinary citizens are broken, inadequate and out of date," Clinton said.

These ideas have long been championed by consumer groups and civil liberties advocates, but are largely strangers to presidential campaigns. Other Democrats who have announced presidential exploratory committees for the 2008 election -- including Illinois Sen. Barack Obama and 2004 vice presidential candidate John Edwards -- have worked on privacy issues through their careers as government officials. But Clinton's approach is notable for its range and detail, say privacy advocates.

"Sen. Clinton's plan is well-informed and the most sophisticated statement in recent years by a presidential candidate on privacy issues," said Chris Hoofnagle, a law professor at UC Berkeley's School of Law. "She grasps consumers' frustrations with the annoyance of direct marketing, but also the more important point that a lack of privacy can lead to lost opportunities and oppressive social control."

Clinton's stance on consumer privacy hearkens back to the debates of the '90s when Congress and the public began agonizing over the question of who should wield the most control over consumers' transactional data. Her general policy position is that companies should cede more control to consumers, and that new legislation should be enacted to make it easier for consumers to recover monetary damages from companies that violate their privacy policies.

For example, Clinton said that financial companies as a rule should not be allowed to share consumers' transactional information without first obtaining their permission. Under current law, financial institutions freely share certain kinds of customer information unless consumers specifically opt-out.

But some observers are doubtful of Clinton's ability -- whether as senator, or commander-in-chief -- to garner widespread support for what would amount to a complete reversal of a decade of privacy-hostile laws and policies spewing from Washington.

"The reality (of her proposals) is that they would almost turn the information economy inside out -- it's like saying, 'OK, now the water in the stream is going to flow in the other direction,'" said Jim Harper, director of information policy studies at the libertarian think tank The Cato Institute. "It's easy to imagine, but changing the way information moves in the economy is very, very hard to do."

"I think that over time that these ideas will reemerge (and gain momentum)," said Marc Rotenberg, the Electronic Privacy Information Center's executive director, who adds that the second half of this congressional session will provide the senator with many opportunities to support privacy-related legislation.1

Legal and technical checks on government snooping and well-managed data collection policies would also get a boost under Clinton's regime. Among other things, her plan calls for the restoration of a White House privacy czar -- a position that was last held by current Ohio State University law professor Peter Swire under Clinton's husband's tenure as president.

Swire noted in an interview that privacy issues are inextricably tied to health care and its efficient management and delivery -- a No. 1 topic on the Clinton agenda.

"Hillary is an expert in health care -- she even did joint sessions with Newt Gingrich on building electronic health records," he says. "One of the trickiest problems is building a safe and secure system."
 
HRC the privacy candidate?

great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I sure hope she keeps her ideas and visions and self private, I dont wanna hear nor see da bitch!
 
Ham Murabi said:
And LT supports seizing your property.
Will my property not be seized if I refuse to pay taxes to support the war?

Well?

Yes or no? That should be easy to answer, even for you.
 
LovingTongue said:
Will my property not be seized if I refuse to pay taxes to support the war?

Well?

Yes or no? That should be easy to answer, even for you.

If you refuse to pay federal taxes chances are you will go to jail, unless the government figures it's not worth the effort.
 
Ham Murabi said:
If you refuse to pay federal taxes chances are you will go to jail, unless the government figures it's not worth the effort.
Jail? Christ, you are a big government Nazi, aren't you?
 
LovingTongue said:
Jail? Christ, you are a big government Nazi, aren't you?

Good news, LT. I just checked the database. Last year your federal taxes purchased a 12-pack of toilet paper that was used by the Labor Department.
You didn't finance the war effort.
 
LovingTongue said:
Republicans who read this thread would rather not discuss this. They hate citizens' privacy rights. It erodes at the powers of the corporate state and the totalitarian Big Brotherism that they're pushing in the name of the war on terror.
Does this mean that Hillary is against using the FBI to dig up dirt on her enemies?
 
Ham Murabi said:
Good news, LT. I just checked the database. Last year your federal taxes purchased a 12-pack of toilet paper that was used by the Labor Department.
You didn't finance the war effort.
My tax dollars also feed you.

Hell, us blue states produce welfare dollars and you guys consume it.

Don't get into any dick waving contest with liberals because where everything from crime to income is concerned, we wipe our asses all over you.

People come to blue states to live; they come to visit you people, or fly overhead. Oh I'm sorry, I know you have 30 million people in Hallelujahland; of course they're all in your head telling you you're right.
 
garbage can said:
Does this mean that Hillary is against using the FBI to dig up dirt on her enemies?
Wow, dude, Ham Murabi has been trying all day long to hit the broad side of a battleship and you managed to score with one shot. Good one!

Yes, Bill Clinton did use the FBI to snoop on his enemies, and Hillary should be made to take account of that.
 
LovingTongue said:
Wow, dude, Ham Murabi has been trying all day long to hit the broad side of a battleship and you managed to score with one shot. Good one!

Yes, Bill Clinton did use the FBI to snoop on his enemies, and Hillary should be made to take account of that.

Funny how conservatives think we worship personalities like they do. Let a Dem or Lib fuck up and the base will call them on it. Lieberman is a prime example. Hillary is on thin ice for many in the Dem base for war support.
 
Drixxx said:
Funny how conservatives think we worship personalities like they do. Let a Dem or Lib fuck up and the base will call them on it. Lieberman is a prime example. Hillary is on thin ice for many in the Dem base for war support.

This was also in evidence when congressman Jefferson got caught with $80,000 in a freezer. He was immediately condemned by the Democratic party and removed from his comittee position.

However when Congressman DeLay was indicted the entirety of the Republican party stood next to him with their eyes closed singing his praises. Then there was that certain congressman from Florida and his little page problem.

Who me? I didn't see nothin'.
 
Drixxx said:
Funny how conservatives think we worship personalities like they do. Let a Dem or Lib fuck up and the base will call them on it. Lieberman is a prime example. Hillary is on thin ice for many in the Dem base for war support.
They know we don't worship personalities. That's why they spin it as "disunity".

The problem with the Republican cult of personality is when the enemy takes them out of leadership, the rank and file Republicans rebel against the Republican personalities that has been bullying them around... just like what happened earlier this month...
 
Ulaven_Demorte said:
This was also in evidence when congressman Jefferson got caught with $80,000 in a freezer. He was immediately condemned by the Democratic party and removed from his comittee position.

However when Congressman DeLay was indicted the entirety of the Republican party stood next to him with their eyes closed singing his praises. Then there was that certain congressman from Florida and his little page problem.

Who me? I didn't see nothin'.

Also notice Dem scandals. Most of them involve having a girlfriend and/or getting liquored up. At worst boosting a little cash or favors when nobody is looking. Not the systemic corruption you see from the Repubs. You never hear of Maxine Waters breaking laws to get welfare to poor people or Dennis Kuchnich taking payoffs from PETA and Greenpeace.
 
Drixxx said:
Also notice Dem scandals. Most of them involve having a girlfriend and/or getting liquored up. At worst boosting a little cash or favors when nobody is looking. Not the systemic corruption you see from the Repubs. You never hear of Maxine Waters breaking laws to get welfare to poor people or Dennis Kuchnich taking payoffs from PETA and Greenpeace.
And certainly no new scandals involving little boys.

www.armchairsubversive.com
 
You think HRC is the privacy candidate? Wait till that legendary temper lets loose and she decides she wants to get back at everybody that doesn't agree with her, with the FBI and IRS at her disposal.

She's got an enemies list, ala Richard Nixon.
 
hurricane64 said:
You think HRC is the privacy candidate? Wait till that legendary temper lets loose and she decides she wants to get back at everybody that doesn't agree with her, with the FBI and IRS at her disposal.

She's got an enemies list, ala Richard Nixon.
Yes, and she'll be called on it if she tries it.

But you know what? If Hillary does get rid of corporate surveillance of citizens, and allow us more control over our personal information, and the trade off is the FBI is spying on her enemies, the net damage to America's rights will be in the negative. (Hey drixxx watch their reading comprehension fail.)
 
LovingTongue said:
Yes, and she'll be called on it if she tries it.

But you know what? If Hillary does get rid of corporate surveillance of citizens, and allow us more control over our personal information, and the trade off is the FBI is spying on her enemies, the net damage to America's rights will be in the negative. (Hey drixxx watch their reading comprehension fail.)

She won't be called on it, at least to any appreciable degree.

And as for the net damage remark, easy for you to say, as you won't be on her enemies list.

For now.
 
hurricane64 said:
She won't be called on it, at least to any appreciable degree.

And as for the net damage remark, easy for you to say, as you won't be on her enemies list.

For now.
Oh, she'll be called on it. Not just by me, either. We're all sick of that behavior. We, as in the voting public. The Democrats won't let her get away with it like they let Billy boy; they've tasted being out of power for 12 years and they won't go there again.
 
LovingTongue said:
Will my property not be seized if I refuse to pay taxes to support the war?

Well?

Yes or no? That should be easy to answer, even for you.

Paying taxes is like death, everyone has to do it or they get their paychecks yanked. Been that way for decades. But I forget, the liberals of today need to keep their Conservatives are all for big business attitude or they might become people, just like rabid conservatives have to say that the democrats are all about a free ride for the poor and lazy. Damn people get over yourselves. The demis are pissed because their boy didn't get elected. Well, the dick in office is on his way out with enough damage to guarentee the Demis will be in office to let all the little illegals have amnesty and the poor and lazy will be in the land of milk and honey. I'll be ashamed of the U.S. if Hillary Clinton becomes the first woman president. Oh, and guess what? When the Demis give the poor, lazy, and illegals their free reign they'll raise taxes across the board so they can give themselves a pay raise instead of a pay cut.
 
LovingTongue said:
Oh, she'll be called on it. Not just by me, either. We're all sick of that behavior. We, as in the voting public. The Democrats won't let her get away with it like they let Billy boy; they've tasted being out of power for 12 years and they won't go there again.

But nobody ever learns from it. They'll make the same mistakes, over and over again. They presided over a decent economy in the 90's and that couldn't even allow them to keep the White House, largely due to the male Clinton's indiscretions.

We're of course assuming she's a shoo-in for the Presidency, which is still nowhere near a done deal.
 
Wyldfire said:
Paying taxes is like death, everyone has to do it or they get their paychecks yanked. Been that way for decades. But I forget, the liberals of today need to keep their Conservatives are all for big business attitude or they might become people, just like rabid conservatives have to say that the democrats are all about a free ride for the poor and lazy. Damn people get over yourselves. The demis are pissed because their boy didn't get elected. Well, the dick in office is on his way out with enough damage to guarentee the Demis will be in office to let all the little illegals have amnesty and the poor and lazy will be in the land of milk and honey. I'll be ashamed of the U.S. if Hillary Clinton becomes the first woman president. Oh, and guess what? When the Demis give the poor, lazy, and illegals their free reign they'll raise taxes across the board so they can give themselves a pay raise instead of a pay cut.
And what do you think the Republicans will do if they take over again? :rolleyes:
 
hurricane64 said:
But nobody ever learns from it. They'll make the same mistakes, over and over again. They presided over a decent economy in the 90's and that couldn't even allow them to keep the White House, largely due to the male Clinton's indiscretions.

We're of course assuming she's a shoo-in for the Presidency, which is still nowhere near a done deal.
I'm stunned that Bill Clinton got in so much trouble when the Republicans were out molesting little boys at the time (more so in the last 6 years, apparently).
 
LovingTongue said:
I'm stunned that Bill Clinton got in so much trouble when the Republicans were out molesting little boys at the time (more so in the last 6 years, apparently).

And so what have we seen? Power corrupts.

So there's no reason to think Nancy's "Most Ethical Congress in History" is going to be any more ethical then GWB's "Most Ethical Administration in History." Or Bill's, for that matter.

Why do you think it's going to be any better?
 
hurricane64 said:
And so what have we seen? Power corrupts.

So there's no reason to think Nancy's "Most Ethical Congress in History" is going to be any more ethical then GWB's "Most Ethical Administration in History." Or Bill's, for that matter.

Why do you think it's going to be any better?
Honestly? I don't know for sure. I'm hoping.

This is exactly why I hope the Dems never control Congress, the Senate AND the Presidency.

A strong Democrat Congressional & Senate majority with Republican opposition works best for America. Democrats set the course for America while the Republicans slam on the brakes when the Democrats go too far.
 
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