Electric cars.

[ishtat]

Electric cars as urban runabouts, taxis, city centre buses and light delivery vehicles make a lot of sense, environmentally and economically in inner cities. Not so much on longer trips, but when the range gets up to 500 miles or so, legacy auto producers are in trouble. America has two circumstances which will make adoption slower, firstly lots of cheap gas, and secondly, its major carmakers, Tesla excepted, are producing grossly overpriced poor quality EV's. Meanwhile, BYD, Geely, MG, Volvo and other Chinese car makers are producing good quality product particularly in the $12,000 to $25,000 range. That fact is a scary prospect for both European and American legacy manufacturers.

There are significant infrastructure problems to be overcome, There are not enough charging points, though Shell announced this week that they intend to install a further 200,000 - not enough but a start. EV's will also not need the enormously expensive dealer networks IC cars require.

We have an EV, a small 4 door BYD runabout, used for commuting and shopping, it probably has not been more than 125 Km on a single trip so far. Power is from rooftop solar on the house and a wall battery.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

The CCP is moving into Mexico to flood us with cheap EVs.

That's reason enough not to purchase one.

 

[ishtat]

The CCP is moving into Mexico to flood us with cheap EVs.

I doubt it. They already supply a vast quantity of parts to US car makers and will not want to prejudice that market by inviting still higher tariffs. In addition, their first priority is their domestic market which is the same size as the European and North American markets combined. Finally East Asia, particularly Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, represents a local market emerging from 3rd world economic status - and these are 500 million potential new customers on their doorstep.

Europe is a more likely target for the Chinese because China is the most important export market for Mercedes BMW and VW. therefore Tariff retaliation is less likely.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

The ability to export vehicles from Mexico allows Chinese companies to benefit from trade rules in the region. Under the current U.S.-Mexico-Canada (USMCA) agreement, if 66% of a vehicle’s parts are made in North America, manufacturers can export them to the U.S. duty-free. This would avoid the higher tariffs the companies would otherwise pay.

Three Chinese EV companies have established assembly plants in Mexico. Foton is a truck, bus, and SUV maker; JAC Motors offers three EV models in the Mexican market; and bus and truck manufacturer Shacman has a Mexican plant.

In 2021, Mexico was the sixth-largest exporter of EVs to countries including the U.S., Belgium, and Norway. General Motors, Ford, BMW, and Audi are also producing EVs in Mexico or have plans to soon. Mexico also has a local EV maker, Zacua.


https://electrifynews.com/policy-po...ev-factories-like-byd-alarming-u-s-officials/

 

[JohnsonLongwood]

Why is it the government's job to tell you what the maintenance costs will be on your car?

It does seem to me that the manufacturer ought to be telling people those things about their own products. That's the way it usually works in a free market system. That has never been the government's job. It's a way of whiners to double up - they can bitch about government and EVs at the same time.

 

[coati]

The government won't tell you, that to replace the batteries in an ElectricCar could cost upwards of $25,000.00.

Deplorables love to whine about gubbamint conspiracies.

You are part of the gubbamint. Whining does nothing to bring about positive change.

 

[desecration]

Deplorables love to whine about gubbamint conspiracies.

Sane people recognize that governments are massive bureaucracies just like large corporations.

Treat government just as you would any large corporation, and you get reasonable results.

 

[Bray123]

The government won't tell you, that to replace the batteries in an ElectricCar could cost upwards of $25,000.00.

https://www.way.com/blog/how-much-does-prius-battery-replacement-cost/

$4,500 max.

 

[desecration]

https://www.way.com/blog/how-much-does-prius-battery-replacement-cost/

$4,500 max.

Prius is a hybrid, not an electric.

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/how-much-does-it-cost-to-replace-a-toyota-prius-battery

 

[Bray123]

Prius is a hybrid, not an electric.

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/how-much-does-it-cost-to-replace-a-toyota-prius-battery

Correct. But the highest I can find on Google is $20K, not $25. Maximum is usually around $11k.

 

[coati]

Sane people recognize that governments are massive bureaucracies just like large corporations.

Of course they are massive, because we've overrun the Earth with humans.

Sane people either promote birth control policies or adapt their governance systems for increasing populations.

Insane people whine about the situation, advocate for turning women into baby factories, or promote chaos and burning everything to the ground.

 

[desecration]

Of course they are massive, because we've overrun the Earth with humans.

I agree we have overrun the Earth with humans. Too many!

But the bureaucracies grow themselves. How many people does government employ again?

Sane people either promote birth control policies or adapt their governance systems for increasing populations.

The latter will not work because of the carrying capacity of Earth. The former is too slow. Better is to cut off the subsidies and immigration.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

How many people does government employ again?

2.95 Million. Which is a small percentage of the total of 158 million employed in the USA.

 

[AlexBailey]

Apples to apples?

EVs require very little maintenance, much less than ICE vehicles, yet they and their batteries can have a similar longevity.

How much is any ICE car still worth after 200,000 miles? How much repair or replacement work would it need to insure its reliability?


https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a44852031/how-long-do-electric-car-batteries-last/

While relatively few EVs have been around long enough to hit 200,000 miles, Tesla’s 2022 Impact Report touted an average retention of 88 percent battery capacity at that milestone. Some individuals with particularly excessive driving habits, as in 74,000 miles a year or more, have reported as little as 20 percent degradation on packs with over 350,000 miles on them.

 

[HisArpy]

Apples to apples?

EVs require very little maintenance, much less than ICE vehicles, yet they and their batteries can have a similar longevity.

How much is any ICE car still worth after 200,000 miles? How much repair or replacement work would it need to insure its reliability?


https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a44852031/how-long-do-electric-car-batteries-last/

While relatively few EVs have been around long enough to hit 200,000 miles, Tesla’s 2022 Impact Report touted an average retention of 88 percent battery capacity at that milestone. Some individuals with particularly excessive driving habits, as in 74,000 miles a year or more, have reported as little as 20 percent degradation on packs with over 350,000 miles on them.

Data is coming out that EV's are MORE expensive to maintain and repair than standard internal combustion cars.

 

[AlexBailey]

Data is coming out that EV's are MORE expensive to maintain and repair than standard internal combustion cars.

Let’s see that data.

 

[HisArpy]

Let’s see that data.

Besides making you look less like an uninformed idiot, Google can be your friend.

 

[wizzard426]

If it has tits or tires sooner or later it will give you trouble

Never mind the recent green mandate of using a soy based insulation for automotive wiring

That rats love and will graciously use to strengthen their jaw muscles

 

[AlexBailey]

Besides making you look less like an uninformed idiot, Google can be your friend.

You’re the one who’s making the claim of “data coming out…”

Come on out…

 

[wizzard426]

You’re the one who’s making the claim of “data coming out…”

Come on out…

You are already out

https://www.businessinsider.com/ele...ance-car-buyers-tips-dealers-cost-2023-2?op=1

Hertz said you are full of shit. Get an enema

 

[AlexBailey]

If it has tits or tires sooner or later it will give you trouble

Never mind the recent green mandate of using a soy based insulation for automotive wiring

That rats love and will graciously use to strengthen their jaw muscles

Please cite the mandate you mention.

I don’t believe it exists but I invite you to prove me wrong. Everything I’ve found on the subject says manufacturers chose the soy based insulation as a cost reduction option that is also supposed to be more environmentally friendly.

Years ago when many manufacturers were looking for alternatives to using lead to soften wire insulation there was a product that rodents loved that arguably smelled like chocolate. That was problematic and was quickly abandoned but even then it was a manufacturer choice, not any particular mandate.

 

[John_von_Neumann]

Besides making you look less like an uninformed idiot, Google can be your friend.

In other words, you've got jack shit to back up your bullshit, as usual.

 

[John_von_Neumann]

You are already out

https://www.businessinsider.com/ele...ance-car-buyers-tips-dealers-cost-2023-2?op=1

Hertz said you are full of shit. Get an enema

Your own cite says you're full of it.

A Kelley Blue Book assessment of the total cost to own an EV versus an internal-combustion engine vehicle estimated EV maintenance costs of $4,246 on average over five years of ownership, lower than the $4,583 estimate for gas-powered cars.

But it estimated EVs have slightly higher repair costs — about $1,712 on average — compared to $1,695 average repair costs for gas-powered vehicles.

Congrats, that's some HisArpy level of derp you've achieved.

 

[AlexBailey]

You are already out

https://www.businessinsider.com/ele...ance-car-buyers-tips-dealers-cost-2023-2?op=1

Hertz said you are full of shit. Get an enema

Holy shit! You’re right! According to that article you posted, an EV will ream you for $17 more hard earned dollars of repairs over a five year period.




https://www.businessinsider.com/electric-car-service-maintenance-car-buyers-tips-dealers-cost-2023-2

But it estimated EVs have slightly higher repair costs — about $1,712 on average — compared to $1,695 average repair costs for gas-powered vehicles.

"EVs don't require as much maintenance — meaning fluids and filters — but EVs are going to require high-ticket repairs," Quin Garcia, managing director at VC firm AutoTech Ventures, said.

———

One of the issues for the expense of EV care is that there are still few shops that will work on them, but that is quickly being addressed. Many schools have been reworking their training programs and have only recently begun offering EV certification courses.

One of my sons recently helped set up the EV program in our local community college.

Supply for trained mechanics will follow demand.


Meanwhile an EV can save you way more than $17 in fuel costs over the same time.

 

[wizzard426]

I'm supposed to get excited over 17 dollars in fuel savings!

EPA vehicle biodegradability requirements led to use of soybean-based wiring insulation.

That.