Electric cars.

[Luv2bnaked4u]

We were considering an EV but the costs mount up
Besides the cost of the car you have to have an electrician install a charger in the garage. The car insurance is higher
Less mileage with the AC or heat running

We had a spur of the moment funeral to attend and decided to drive, there is NO way we could have made it in a EV and made it on time.
If you can afford to spend an hour or so recharging then fine. We just don’t travel that way.

 

[AlexBailey]

So sez our resident "expert" on all thing electricity. Except...

https://www.newsflare.com/video/634...ously-combusts-and-burns-out-on-road-in-china

https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/12y88k7/byd_blade_ev_batteries_catching_fire

Somehow I don't think it's me who isn't up on battery development. Either that or your conflict of interest is showing.

Seriously, Harpy, thanks for that.

I’ll have to do some research on this. LFP chemistry is intrinsically safer than other lithium technology.

It sounds like a problem possibly unique to BYD. I’ll have to dig into it.

 

[AlexBailey]

No it isn't because I'm not the "expert" who is advocating that people touch live power leads. It's almost like you don't care what you're saying and have decided to just say whatever dumb shit pops into your lil' crossdressing noggin' in order to try and prove you're a man.

You really need to shut the fuck up on this before you hurt yourself again.

Nope. I’m holding firm on 56vdc being safe to the touch.

Apparently your stupidity is immovable.

 

[AlexBailey]

Statistical safety analysis comparing EVs to ICE vehicles is still rare but there is some saying EVs are much safer.

This is from Edmunds:

https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/electric-car-fires.html

From the article:

Similarly, Australia's EV FireSafe, a group funded by the country's department of defense, studied global EV battery fires from 2010 to 2020. The report found that the risk of an electric car battery catching fire was a thousandth of a percent (0.0012%). FireSafe noted that it was difficult to find similar data for internal combustion engine vehicles globally, but based on the reports the group looked at, it estimated fire risk at a tenth of a percent (0.1%).

 

[AlexBailey]

We were considering an EV but the costs mount up
Besides the cost of the car you have to have an electrician install a charger in the garage. The car insurance is higher
Less mileage with the AC or heat running

We had a spur of the moment funeral to attend and decided to drive, there is NO way we could have made it in a EV and made it on time.
If you can afford to spend an hour or so recharging then fine. We just don’t travel that way.

EV ranges are increasing and will likely be > 500 miles in the next few years. At 65mph that’s more than 7 hrs of driving time.

Of course many households hove more than one type of vehicle.

I have a family van, a work truck and a fun truck. We’re recent empty nesters and expect to be getting either a hybrid or an EV soon.

I know many people who have EVs for daily commute vehicles and ICEs for other uses.

I have a couple of elderly client couples who just invested in solar and EVs. They drive > 100 miles/week and are no longer subject to increases in their utility or vehicle fuel costs.

 

[wizzard426]

https://moonbattery.com/7-5-billion-for-seven-ev-chargers/

 

[HisArpy]

Nope. I’m holding firm on 56vdc being safe to the touch.

Apparently your stupidity is immovable.

The ONLY stupid person here is you when you advocate that people touch live voltage power sources.

Not everyone has your knowledge. Not everyone understands what you're saying. It only takes ONE PERSON believing it's safe because you said so and then do it wrong. At that point they're dead and it will be YOUR FAULT because you're too fucking wrapped up in your own attempts to prove yourself "superior" on the internet to care.

Which makes you stupid. And careless. And a danger to yourself and others.

 

[HisArpy]

Seriously, Harpy, thanks for that.

I’ll have to do some research on this. LFP chemistry is intrinsically safer than other lithium technology.

It sounds like a problem possibly unique to BYD. I’ll have to dig into it.

And yet you claim to be "in the know"...

 

[AlexBailey]

The ONLY stupid person here is you when you advocate that people touch live voltage power sources.

Not everyone has your knowledge. Not everyone understands what you're saying. It only takes ONE PERSON believing it's safe because you said so and then do it wrong. At that point they're dead and it will be YOUR FAULT because you're too fucking wrapped up in your own attempts to prove yourself "superior" on the internet to care.

Which makes you stupid. And careless. And a danger to yourself and others.

Any person can touch 56 vdc with a bare hand and not get electrocuted.

 

[AlexBailey]

And yet you claim to be "in the know"...

I am “in the know.” Part of that is being able to consider and adapt to new information.

LFP chemistry is still the safest Lithium Ion technology, many studies have proven this, including those sponsored by insurance companies and manufacturers. The news stories of BYD having problems does not change this.

What has come into question is the way BYD systems operate. They may be ‘pushing’ the tech too hard, stretching the limits of charge and discharge rates, allowing higher operating temperatures than what has been accepted standards.

I’ve only worked with a few BYD systems. I don’t like them because they unnecessarily operate at higher nominal voltages than other systems I prefer to work with. (I.E. 112 vdc rather than 56 vdc.)

I have limited personal experience with automotive systems but the increased safety of the LFP chemistry over other Li-ion systems is still true.


Also true is that handling Li technology is still much less prone to mishaps than gasoline.

Are you aware of how the automotive industry had to learn and adapt safety standards for safe gasoline storage and handling? Remember the stories of Ford Pintos bursting into flames when rear ended even at low speeds? Pesky government regulations helped fix that.

Do you know how filling a gas can for tool usage while the receptacle is on a vehicle can cause a static spark which can ignite vapors? This is a danger that many landscapers and off-road vehicle operators ignore and cause injuries and fires on a regular enough basis that every filling station (in CA at least) is required to post warnings about it.



Yeah? LFP batteries for tools are far safer. Did you know that the tool brand Briggs and Stratton just bought the Simpliphi LFP battery company? Landscaping and other power tools are being made safer as the industry matures.

Are you intelligent and mature enough to absorb and process new information?

 

[ishtat]

So sez our resident "expert" on all thing electricity. Except...

https://www.newsflare.com/video/634...ously-combusts-and-burns-out-on-road-in-china

https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/12y88k7/byd_blade_ev_batteries_catching_fire

Somehow I don't think it's me who isn't up on battery development. Either that or your conflict of interest is showing.

Arpy I did some research on this and Alex Bailey is in fact correct. The car which was burning in the video was an older hybrid vehicle employing the Lithium Cobalt chemistry not the more modern Lithium Iron Phosphate LFP chemistry. Factory Mutuals the research organization on fires in the USA has already reported on the dangers associated with the older chemistry. These fires were all in Hybrids rather than pure EV's. The initiation of the fires which occurred in Hybrids like this was caused by a fault in the control system which changed the power output from Electric to ICE or vice versa. They were scary because the fires always followed the same course; first a lot of smoke, secondly a very very hot fire which cannot be put out with water because it creates its own oxygen as it burns. You can see in this video that the water did nothing except cool the debris. It was only after a number of years that the Norwegians worked it out that if strong brine was used instead of water, that would interfere with the fire chemistry sufficiently for the fire to extinguish.

The more hazardous chemistry is unfortunately still utilized in some electric skate boards and bicycles which are barely regulated at all compared with cars. The worlds two biggest EV producers Tesla and BYD both use the safer modern chemistry and both have vehicles currently capable of 1000 Km range.

 

[wizzard426]

1000 kilometers, or, about 50 miles

 

[Wat_Tyler]

1000 kilometers, or, about 50 miles

Rounded up, of course . . . .

 

[wizzard426]

Rounded up, of course . . . .

Almost................

Imagine for a moment, a man arrives almost at work for the big presentation that he has almost finished

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Almost................

Imagine for a moment, a man arrives almost at work for the big presentation that he has almost finished

And he rounded off his arrival time of 0912 to his appointment time of 0900 . . . .

 

[AlexBailey]

1000 kilometers, or, about 50 miles

Rounded up, of course . . . .

Is that MAGA math?

1000 kilometers = 621.37 miles.


Holy fuck you guys are dumb.

 

[Chernosoth]

LFP chemistry is still the safest Lithium Ion technology, many studies have proven this, including those sponsored by insurance companies and manufacturers. The news stories of BYD having problems does not change this.

That really doesn't matter. There's not enough lithium or lithium mining in the world to electrify all the cars. Until there is a non-lithium battery, the EV is still a luxury niche product.

 

[AlexBailey]

Only a dumbass would think we’ve already reached the pinnacle of battery life, storage and safety.

The US military is setting high safety goals that the industry is already reaching. Consumer safety will continue to improve.

Powerful Battery Cell Nails Military Safety Test​

https://www.nationaldefensemagazine...rful-battery-cell-nails--military-safety-test

From the article:

The safety tests demonstrated that the electrolyte cell would not react violently — or at all — if punctured, Stefan said. Furthermore, the battery still worked properly even after being hit, he added.

“Assume that, for example, a soldier’s battery is shot at or penetrated by shrapnel.

 

[HisArpy]

Arpy I did some research on this and Alex Bailey is in fact correct. The car which was burning in the video was an older hybrid vehicle employing the Lithium Cobalt chemistry not the more modern Lithium Iron Phosphate LFP chemistry. Factory Mutuals the research organization on fires in the USA has already reported on the dangers associated with the older chemistry. These fires were all in Hybrids rather than pure EV's. The initiation of the fires which occurred in Hybrids like this was caused by a fault in the control system which changed the power output from Electric to ICE or vice versa. They were scary because the fires always followed the same course; first a lot of smoke, secondly a very very hot fire which cannot be put out with water because it creates its own oxygen as it burns. You can see in this video that the water did nothing except cool the debris. It was only after a number of years that the Norwegians worked it out that if strong brine was used instead of water, that would interfere with the fire chemistry sufficiently for the fire to extinguish.

The more hazardous chemistry is unfortunately still utilized in some electric skate boards and bicycles which are barely regulated at all compared with cars. The worlds two biggest EV producers Tesla and BYD both use the safer modern chemistry and both have vehicles currently capable of 1000 Km range.

Bizarrely, the cars are still piling up in European ports even with the "new" battery tech.

And they're still burning while sitting in the lots.

I have zero stake in the outcome. All I'm saying is that battery tech isn't stable and the proof is in the pudding. There's so much proof that Hertz just dumped it's EV fleet.

 

[HisArpy]

Any person can touch 56 vdc with a bare hand and not get electrocuted.

Which is why it has an electrical shock warning.

It's like you're stupid and enjoy being that way.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Lol, if you say so little green checkmark man. I'll still keep my digits out of the power circuitry. Just in case you're wrong and everyone else in the industry who issues warnings against doing what you advocate is right.

You're the exact person who is responsible for people like me having to author the 10 page electrical warning instruction manuals.

You should really stop posting, you know fuck all about electromagnetism. No one here should be surprised, since you also know fuck all about Chemistry. Understand Electromagnetism is one of the four forces of the Universe, and as such is beyond the reach of comprehension with your limited mental capacity.
Your complete lack of understanding of the basics of how electricity works is unfathomable. You still profess that volts trump amps, and yet you seem to have no clue on how resistance acts with the other two. E=I x R is as important a formula as E = MC2. Think about that for a second...not like it will matter, your peanut for a brain won't make the connection...

PS, lets add in Capacitance and see how you do, or maybe Reactive power or Inductance...

 

[wizzard426]

Which is why it has an electrical shock warning.

It's like you're stupid and enjoy being that way.

The new tools for EV service are insulated to 1000 volts.........

 

[Fuzzy1975]

We were considering an EV but the costs mount up
Besides the cost of the car you have to have an electrician install a charger in the garage. The car insurance is higher
Less mileage with the AC or heat running

We had a spur of the moment funeral to attend and decided to drive, there is NO way we could have made it in a EV and made it on time.
If you can afford to spend an hour or so recharging then fine. We just don’t travel that way.

Did you consider a Hybrid?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Which is why it has an electrical shock warning.

It's like you're stupid and enjoy being that way.

Show me where there is a shock warning about the Battery....I can show you an explosion warning about the Battery, and a shock warning about the Battery charger....

 

[AlexBailey]

That really doesn't matter. There's not enough lithium or lithium mining in the world to electrify all the cars. Until there is a non-lithium battery, the EV is still a luxury niche product.

The supply chain is getting stronger in the developing market. You’re hanging on to old news.

https://theicct.org/pr-us-lithium-s...d-from-us-light-duty-bevs-through-2032-feb24/


…new lithium supply may far exceed lithium demand from new U.S. light-duty BEVs through 2032.




In addition to new supply, recycling technologies are being developed. If the lead acid market can be an example, regulations will soon require all Li manufacturers to also have facilities that can recycle their products.