Did I Use the Wrong Category for My Story?

[KristinKailey]

Hey!!

So normally I write bdsm stories and even though every story I write has some elements of non-con or reluctance, they're also pretty heavy on the bdsm elements too.

My latest story is a super long one (its fully written and comes out to 20 chapters and 200 pages or so and will be posted up in parts a couple times a week) and as per usual I put it in the bdsm category. I got a few complaints in the comments though from people who were angry about that and said that it belonged in the non-con/reluctance category and they may be right. Honestly I think this is one of those cases in which it can go either way but I'd like your opinion as to whether I should ask Laurel to change the category on them to Non-con.

So its a kidnap story in which the girl gets trained up for the first few chapters by a seriously creepy psychopath. She's in bondage (chain and shock collar) and she's getting brain washed big time. By chapter 6 she's pretty much broken and becoming devoted and obedient for her captor. By chapter 12 he's starting to take her out to consensual bdsm activities like parties and get togethers, etc. There are scenes even later on with elements of non-con and even some unpleasant abuse. Plus one could argue that since she was brainwashed, even though it kind of looks consensual, its really not because she's not in a state of mind to give consent.

My question then is we have lots of bdsm, we have consensual bdsm environments, we have a devoted slave and we show other devoted consensual slaves as well to their "owners". But we also have a TON of pretty extreme non-con (one commenter used the quote from the Silence of the Lambs, "It rubs the lotion on its skin" in reference to my antagonist so that should tell you something about his mindset and approach).

The story is Trapped, Twisted and Trained Pt. 01 and Pt. 02. here:
https://literotica.com/s/trapped-trained-and-twisted-pt-01
https://literotica.com/s/trapped-trained-and-twisted-pt-02

Please give me some guidance! Should I keep it in bdsm or ask for it to be moved to non-con where I would then post future chapters. Also having read my post keep in mind you know a lot more about where the story is headed than the people who have so far just read the first 2 chapters, so that should give you more insight about which category is correct. Thanks for your help!! I seriously don't want to piss people off but I worked hard on making this a great story so I want for the right people to enjoy it.

 

[DCO_65]

My $0.02 (as someone who likes CNC but not actual NC in RL) is that the word "kidnapping" by itself makes it NC regardless of how many BDSM elements are in the story.

 

[CyranoJ]

I seriously don't want to piss people off but I worked hard on making this a great story so I want for the right people to enjoy it.

I'd put it in NC/R. There was a time when a story like that wouldn't have been remarkable in a BDSM forum or library, but the BDSM community is getting more particular about trying to dissociate itself from noncon content.

 

[jaF0]

I wouldn't put it on Lit at all. Or anywhere else.

I wouldn't have written it to begin with.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I'd put it in NC/R. There was a time when a story like that wouldn't have been remarkable in a BDSM forum or library, but the BDSM community is getting more particular about trying to dissociate itself from noncon content.

There is a BDSM community and a Romance community and probably a Loving Wives community - who all have opinions about where a story is supposed to go and are not shy about telling authors what their views are. If Literotica accepted it as is, then that's what counts.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Based on that description, non con, for sure.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'd say Non Con.

Lit readers seem to be getting increasingly ridiculous in their insistence that others must conform to their norms. But it is what it is, and it affects the reception your story will get.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'd say Non Con.

Lit readers seem to be getting increasingly ridiculous in their insistence that others must conform to their norms. But it is what it is, and it affects the reception your story will get.

What norm would that be Simon? That BDSM requires consent?

I think you're the one trying to get things to conform to your uneducated opinions.

Everyone else in here is saying non con and not because of squicky readers but because they know where it belongs. Maybe you should stop being snarky and think on that.

You have proved time and again that you don't know know the difference between the two genres.

 

[Emirus]

After having read the first two chapters I have to agree with those saying it should be NC/R. She certainly isn’t consenting and reluctant comes nowhere close to how she feels. I noticed you put Ch.01 in NC/R and Ch.02 in BDSM. Whatever you decide to do you should stick to the same category for every chapter otherwise your scores will suffer.

I’ve written both NC/R and BDSM stories but this one is not my cup of tea and, if I came across it by chance, I wouldn’t have got past the first chapter but, thankfully, there is a great variety of readership on this site and many will enjoy reading your series. My opinion is only one of thousands.

The description for both chapters so far is “Girl is kidnapped, brainwashed and becomes a devoted slave” and I would suggest you give a description of what happens in each chapter rather than the same description for all 20.

 

[RetroFan]

My $0.02 (as someone who likes CNC but not actual NC in RL) is that the word "kidnapping" by itself makes it NC regardless of how many BDSM elements are in the story.

I wrote a kidnap story series this year that I was able to get into Fetish.

The content was a lot different from the OP, mine was about a spoiled rich English girl who is kidnapped by three bumbling crooks for ransom, there was no sexual motive to the abduction. The captive gives her captors a hard time and they are three of the stupidest criminals you could imagine; they use a bright purple van and abduct her in broad daylight and have no clear plan to collect the ransom. They also don't take into account that she would need to use the toilet, have her panties changed or that a certain thing that happens to women every 28 days would come into play.

Those elements of the story would have pushed it into fetish, but the spoiled rich bitch narrator seemed to get some readers offside and a number were angered when she double-crossed the dimmest of her kidnappers, escaped while completely naked and went to the police. Well unless calling the story 'dogshit garbage' is a compliment.

 

[KristinKailey]

I didn't even realize it but it looks like Literotica moved Pt. 01 over to Non-Con already (it was in BDSM) so I think that may answer the question. I'll send a quick note to Laurel asking for Pt.02 to be in that category as well so that they can all be consistent.

If these kinds of stories aren't your cup of tea then this one definitely isn't going to hit it for you. That's one of the reasons why its so important to be in the right category. Not just so people don't complain but more importantly, so people who will enjoy it and be into it can find it easily and properly. For those of you who were helpful and contributed your thoughts about how I should handle this, thank you very much, you guys are super stars!!

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'd say Non Con.

Lit readers seem to be getting increasingly ridiculous in their insistence that others must conform to their norms. But it is what it is, and it affects the reception your story will get.

"Sometimes you really are a fucking idiot, Simon. I can't believe the drivel you spout."

Now, if I were to say something like that, I daresay your feelings would be hurt. It would be a violation of norms about courtesy. From previous conversations, I'm pretty sure you understand the importance of those norms, because they're important to your personal comfort.

We've had conversations like this before, and it seems to me like you're much better at appreciating the value of the norms that protect your personal comfort than at appreciating the norms that do the same for other people. The norm that stops me from calling you a fucking idiot is not more important than the norms that say things like "don't surprise rape survivors with rapey content when they were expecting consensual BDSM".

 

[SimonDoom]

"Sometimes you really are a fucking idiot, Simon. I can't believe the drivel you spout."

Now, if I were to say something like that, I daresay your feelings would be hurt. It would be a violation of norms about courtesy. From previous conversations, I'm pretty sure you understand the importance of those norms, because they're important to your personal comfort.

We've had conversations like this before, and it seems to me like you're much better at appreciating the value of the norms that protect your personal comfort than at appreciating the norms that do the same for other people. The norm that stops me from calling you a fucking idiot is not more important than the norms that say things like "don't surprise rape survivors with rapey content when they were expecting consensual BDSM".

You did say that, B. And yes, it hurts my feelings. You cannot pretend you did not say it by putting it in quotes.

I'm not a fucking idiot. I think you know that. I don't understand why you feel it necessary to talk that way. I don't. Or, I try not to, even when I strongly disagree with people.

We disagree, and it's a disagreement that intelligent people can have. It's a disagreement that people can have without hurling personal insults at one another.

 

[CyranoJ]

I wouldn't put it on Lit at all. Or anywhere else.

I wouldn't have written it to begin with.

Dear me, aren't we a brave little biscuit.

 

[AlinaX]

Just to be contrary... Stick it in Mind Control with a Non-Con content warning.
ETA: Not that the content warning is necessary. Anything goes in Mind Control.

 

[KeithD]

Sometimes you act like a fucking idiot. There is a NonCon category, and I think it's obvious, based on the description, that this story belongs in that category.

SD led off his post saying he'd put it in NonCon.

I agree with what he went on to say too--that there are folks here who think their own interpretation of a category rules and they don't mind pushing their singular definition and attacking folk here, like has happened on this thread (in unnecessary intemperate tone), when people don't fall into their self-proclaimed rules.

 

[KeithD]

Just to be contrary... Stick it in Mind Control with a Non-Con content warning.
ETA: Not that the content warning is necessary. Anything goes in Mind Control.

If this is done, I'd like to see follow-up on where it was categorized by Laurel. The general thought here has been that NonCon is a control category. I'd like to see examples of how true that has been in actual placement.

 

[jaF0]

I've always seen Mind Control as induced by chemicals, visuals, electronics or hypnosis. Never by means of criminal level assault.

I also see Mind Control and more or less consensual to the degree that it can't really happen without consent (except maybe in SciFi stories). Criminal level assault is always criminal and never consensual and should never be allowed here.

And authors that submit such stories of criminal level assault should be referred to local authorities.

 

[AlinaX]

I'm firmly of the opinion that using magic, chemistry or technology to override someone's free will is non-consensual, and it's pretty rare for characters to knowingly and willingly submit to such control.

It's an interesting moral question around characters who know they can affect others and can't control it, such as the recently very popular trope of 18 y.o. who gets experimental drug with unexpected side effect of cock growth and intoxicating pheromones, and who soon must rely on his mother's best efforts to deal with constant horniness. He's not exactly forcing her to have sex with him, but he certainly knows she's under the influence of a drug.

A lot of Mind Control is more about using one's mysterious godlike power to turn women into obedient slaves.

Brainwashing through physical and psychological abuse wouldn't fit in Mind Control, however.

 

[Salacious_Scribe]

There is an unspoken hierarchy of stories based on the squick factor. At least that's how I decide where to put cross-genre stories.

Incest and Non-Con are at the top. If it's non-con incest, Incest trumps non-con tho some Incest readers will bitch.

Non-con readers will complain about incest, incest complains about non-con.

Non-con won't complain about BDSM, and honestly, non-con will involve at least some elements of BDSM.

Honestly, I wish we could choose one main and a few subcategories and tags were more visible. This would end at least some of these issues.

 

[KeithD]

Incest and Non-Con are at the top. If it's non-con incest, Incest trumps non-con tho some Incest readers will bitch.

For those of us who write GM and post it here, Gay Male trumps both incest and NonCon where GM activity is included. The readers here have determined that in my observation of writing a lot of GM and including any other category.

 

[DCO_65]

Criminal level assault is always criminal and never consensual and should never be allowed here.

There go thousands of stories (to be fair I really did not count).

And authors that submit such stories of criminal level assault should be referred to local authorities.

So, If I write about a bank-heist or a counterfeiter I should be "reported." When did the world become a police state?

There is a huge difference between ideas (writing about a crime) and actions (committing a crime). In the real world I have seen ridiculous laws and organizational rules used to silence rape victims. By making what they said about what happened to them "obscene." Yeah, it was, but laws are a poor substitute for human decency and they tend to be used by the powerful to oppress dissent.

I get why Laurel doesn't want age-play stories here. But two adults engage in age-play in their locked bedroom. Is it illegal? Should it be? Why is government (as opposed to the site owner who is responsible for her business) involved? Are we all twelve and need mommy?

I don't write NC. I have had stories that I consider to be "intense" rejected by this site as NC even though the story clearly starts off with the characters discussing and agreeing to what will happen later. It's not my site, so it's okay that Laurel doesn't want to print them "as is." (To be fair, she would print them in NC/R and it was my choice not to accept that placement.) But if the site has a NC/R category, then stories where there is a lack of consent go there.

 

[DCO_65]

For those of us who write GM and post it here, Gay Male trumps both incest and NonCon where GM activity is included. The readers here have determined that in my observation of writing a lot of GM and including any other category.

GM is like the plague at Literotica. I had a piece submitted as Humor & Satire published in GM while I wasn't watching it closely. Because of the implied but never overtly stated relationship between male characters on a sports team.

 

[Winter_Fare]

There is an unspoken hierarchy of stories based on the squick factor. At least that's how I decide where to put cross-genre stories.

Incest and Non-Con are at the top. If it's non-con incest, Incest trumps non-con tho some Incest readers will bitch.

Non-con readers will complain about incest, incest complains about non-con.

Non-con won't complain about BDSM, and honestly, non-con will involve at least some elements of BDSM.

Honestly, I wish we could choose one main and a few subcategories and tags were more visible. This would end at least some of these issues.

I fucked myself then.
(New series has non-con, incest AND bondage and it's sat in Non Human....)

To the OP, now it's been sorted I hope you get a more positive reception in the new category

 

[TadOverdon]

So, I've been posting chapters of a book in Novels/Novellas because the sexual activity is varied enough that there is no one good other category. Only about half the chapters involve I/T.

Chapter five was father/adult daughter and posted as usual. Chapter 8 was the same and posted without problem.

Chapter nine was mother/adult son and the admin moved it to I/T.

There's no point in overthinking categories. You're guessing beyond a certain point. The admin will do it for you.