Chastity, forced male chastity, and Eroticism.

[Astrotrain]

We live in a confusing era. Sexual arousal is often driven by what is forbidden, but these days very little is forbidden, and to do what actually is forbidden needs careful negotiation and consent - which really takes the fun of the forbidden out of it.

Careful now, you don't want to go down the SWERF route with that slippery slope crap. I don't even watch videos for the most part, most of my solo activity is done to erotica and tasteful stills of naked women. I've been doing that for years. How come my mind hasn't degraded to the point where I'm watching anal prolapse porn?

 

[AlinaX]

Surely the mere existence of anal prolapse porn proves my point.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Surely the mere existence of anal prolapse porn proves my point.

I'm not inclined to go back and find out what your point was. If your point was 'There is no God' then yes your point is proved.

 

[Astrotrain]

Surely the mere existence of anal prolapse porn proves my point.

I don't know if that's even a real thing, I just picked something that sounded disgusting and perverted to make my point.

 

[AlinaX]

Oh, such sweet innocence.

 

[Astrotrain]

It does seem like there is something going on with both decreasing male sexuality and, even when desire is present, with some men just giving up on dating.

That said, even as a man who had sex with his wife as recently as yesterday (yeah I know, there I go bragging), that article made me go 'oh, you can fuck right off' more times in the space of a two-minute read than anything else in recent memory. It's like a bingo card of 'woke' tropes - ask men to redefine masculinity in the wake of female liberation, name drop Andrew Tate, mention the pay gap, name drop Jordon Peterson, if modern men don't want to have sex with modern women then it can only be modern men who are wrong*, tell men to grow up, start from the assumption that men hate women and so on ad nauseum.

* As a man, try asking the question 'My wife doesn't want to have sex with me. What's wrong with her?' and see the response you get.

And they call incels entitled. Also, most of the articles I've read on this focus solely on the effects on women. They actually have the nerve to complain about the lack of "economically viable men" to date and marry. Men dropping out of college, the workforce and life in general, women's dating lives most affected.

 

[nice90sguy]

I spend every waking moment masturbating to my fantasy about being kept in chastity for such a long time that I end up spending every waking moment thinking about masturbating

 

[Astrotrain]

Orgasm denial really is the most ironic fantasy there is, isn't it? You're furiously masturbating while fantasising about being forcibly prevented from masturbating.

 

[John_Vandermeer]

Thank you Van der Meer, your tales are a true masterpiece of insightful investigation! And so funny, too!
Your words remind me of my initial question: the medieval Knight (outside of a Fantasy context, from Tolkien to Martin) also swore an oath of allegiance to a Queen in a Christian context, and his chastity during the dangerous missions entrusted to him by her (slaying a dragon, gathering flowers for a wreath, buying fuck-me-now stiletto shoes, ironing all the castle curtains) avoiding all forms of sin, was a medieval metaphor for the pure chastity of a Christian in front of the venerable image of the Virgin Mary.
If I am wrong please correct me.
And from that Knight's oaths of purity, derives the character of the Paladin in "Dungeons & Dragons," we pretend it's just a game. Still, it has impacted the collective imagination in a profound way -- and anyone may notice, that in brothels the bard and the burglar harass the maids. At the same time, the paladin remains motionless and inert inside his metal armor without cumming (hey, what a metaphor!).

I am not an expert on ancient cultures, but i do believe vows of chastity was a recurring theme for warriors that served female monarchs, and clerics that served female deities. The idea of course, that it kept them focused on the right place. Again, service and sacrifice for your Empress/Goddess. If she was to remain always out of reach, because of her exalted station, what better proof of devotion?

 

[John_Vandermeer]

I spend every waking moment masturbating to my fantasy about being kept in chastity for such a long time that I end up spending every waking moment thinking about masturbating

It need not be long if the stimulation is intense. Being told by the most gorgeous of women “i want you to give me a good rub, every inch of my body available to your hands and lips, but you MUST wear this cage before I allow it…” is the cruellest bargain such a woman can drive. The exquisite agony of accepting the deal!

 

[EmilyMiller]

We live in a confusing era. Sexual arousal is often driven by what is forbidden, but these days very little is forbidden, and to do what actually is forbidden needs careful negotiation and consent - which really takes the fun of the forbidden out of it.

This I don’t get - I hear all the time about the forbidden. Sex is just this amazing power for good. It’s fun, it’s life-affirming, it’s deeply satisfying. Am I just doing it wrong if the forbidden seems irrelevant?

And I’ve done a wide range of things. But all of it was negotiated and agreed. I don’t see this as a buzzkill, I see that as part of making sure it works for everyone. I don’t want sex that doesn’t work for all involved.

Emily

 

[nice90sguy]

Am I just doing it wrong if the forbidden seems irrelevant

No, you're doing it right -- but doing it wrong is a real turn on for some of us

 

[AlinaX]

It's possible for sex to be fully consensual and still feel forbidden on some level. As long as society places the emphasis on vanilla sex being 'right', any kinky sex will have a flavour of transgression.

ETA: The oldest and arguably healthiest aspect of this is the simple fact that you can see and touch your partner(s) in a way that is forbidden to others.

 

[Astrotrain]

And I’ve done a wide range of things. But all of it was negotiated and agreed. I don’t see this as a buzzkill, I see that as part of making sure it works for everyone. I don’t want sex that doesn’t work for all involved.

"Forbidden" is not the same thing as "nonconsenting". You might act out nonconsenting scenarios, but it's all roleplay. A safeword is vital, at least for a long time at the start. Keep it for six months to a year until the dom/domme knows exactly what makes the sub tick. And that would be my own personal advice, that might be too extreme for some who would say you should always have a safeword.

 

[EmilyMiller]

"Forbidden" is not the same thing as "nonconsenting". You might act out nonconsenting scenarios, but it's all roleplay. A safeword is vital, at least for a long time at the start. Keep it for six months to a year until the dom/domme knows exactly what makes the sub tick. And that would be my own personal advice, that might be too extreme for some who would say you should always have a safeword.

I was responding to @AlinaX saying that negotiation negates the forbidden frisson (Imma so alliterative).

Believe it or not, I do know a little about the area. Not as a masturbatory fantasy, IRL.

Emily

 

[Astrotrain]

Ah, my bad, apologies. Didn't mean to talk down to you, you clearly have much more experience in this area than me.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Ah, my bad, apologies. Didn't mean to talk down to you, you clearly have much more experience in this area than me.

S’OK. No harm no foul.

Emily

 

[nice90sguy]

 

[BareAmy83]

There's eroticism in having one's arousal sustained, to be kept in a state of wanting.

And there's eroticism in being submissive to the extent of giving physical ownership of oneself to a partner.

I'm more entertained by the former, but most chastity stories play on both these themes.

Excellent points!

 

[Norway_1705]

Thanks to all for the excellent insights, and especially to Astrotrain, to TheRedChamber's delightful answer, and to Vandermeer.
The point that bothered me most in that article was the litany about the "Wage Gap." My wife earns more than me, my mother earned more than my father, 29% of wives in 2022 earned more than their husbands, while a hundred years earlier, it happened to only 4% of wives (heiresses, aristocrats, university professors). The Wage Gap is just a fairy tale to sell books and newspaper articles to simple minds who do not even know what a Labor Union is.
But back to the chastity device. Sure, the spread between 1999 and 2024 (wow, 25th anniversary!) also stems in part from the situation of generalized "male crisis." That, however, has roots both in the economy and in the way news events are portrayed. And in movies, TV series, and songs, in which the male characters are now all either clueless clowns, evil villains, or obedient servants of heroic women. It seems clear to me that in the face of such insistent propaganda, young people prefer to give up and wait for better times, to the great detriment of demographics and grandfather's grandchildren.

 

[Norway_1705]

I will reiterate the point, though.
If a 50-year-old man asks the woman he loves to be his stern keyholder (with the useful safe words), maybe is it to return to that age when he was chaste?
Chores and Mother-child relationship (IMHO). Every child, when he has not yet developed puberty, willingly helps his mother in household chores. Mom is tired and the child wants to help her, and each chore is like a game to be played together. Changing the sheets to the beds together. Shelling peas from the pod together. Mop the floors together. Going out together to buy food in the Grocery. Cooking together (even if the child's part is just "wash the apples under water" or "bring me the salt box," still the unconscious child believes he has participated in 50 percent of the production). And I ask myself, how many adult men in their 50s, would like to be able to become children again, would like to help a "mother figure" who is tired and cannot wash, cook, shop for groceries? How many grown men would like this "mother figure" to thank them, with comforting words, with caresses and hugs? Perhaps a tender kiss without sexual consequences? Perhaps instead a French kiss, warm and enveloping, a promise of an orgasm for him and before that for her?
Perhaps "Mommy" would want him to complete one more "particular chore" for her, perhaps she would want him to lick that part that is so itchy (rubbing it with the same diligence that he showed in cleaning the floor with the toothbrush) and then for him to penetrate her with his finger and penis, and then for the hard penis to resist for a long time and then for him to thrust with full force as when he moved the Fridge... Eventually, "Mama" will orgasm, and he will realize that that last Chore was completed commendably. Only then will he be able to cum peacefully--in the pussy of the Dominant, lover, friend, "mother figure" but also girlfriend and wife.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Thanks to all for the excellent insights, and especially to Astrotrain, to TheRedChamber's delightful answer, and to Vandermeer.
The point that bothered me most in that article was the litany about the "Wage Gap." My wife earns more than me, my mother earned more than my father, 29% of wives in 2022 earned more than their husbands, while a hundred years earlier, it happened to only 4% of wives (heiresses, aristocrats, university professors). The Wage Gap is just a fairy tale to sell books and newspaper articles to simple minds who do not even know what a Labor Union is.

Um… the very figures you cite argue the opposite way surely. If 50% of women earned more than their husbands, that might make sense. But why is marriage important? Average pay rates for women at a given level of experience and seniority in comparable jobs are lower. It’s getting better, but a bit early to declare victory.

I earn more (adjusted for wage inflation) than my bf did at my age, so maybe there is hope. But I’m just one data point, like you and your wife.

Regardless of pay, science offers a good example of how things go. I’ll focus on Biology as that’s what I know. At bachelors level, there may even be a preponderance of females (it’s seen as a girl subject a bit). At PhD level, it’s more guys. At PI level, much more guys. If you then look at department heads or institute heads, it’s Y chromosomes as far as the eye can see.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Um… the very figures you cite argue the opposite way surely. If 50% of women earned more than their husbands, that might make sense. But why is marriage important? Average pay rates for women at a given level of experience and seniority in comparable jobs are lower. It’s getting better, but a bit early to declare victory.

I earn more (adjusted for wage inflation) than my bf did at my age, so maybe there is hope. But I’m just one data point, like you and your wife.

Regardless of pay, science offers a good example of how things go. I’ll focus on Biology as that’s what I know. At bachelors level, there may even be a preponderance of females (it’s seen as a girl subject a bit). At PhD level, it’s more guys. At PI level, much more guys. If you then look at department heads or institute heads, it’s Y chromosomes as far as the eye can see.

To be clear, my issue with the article mentioning the pay gap isn't to do with whether it's real or not, it's that the article is using a shotgun approach to peppering in every women's issue or example of toxic masculinity whether it logically fits into the argument or not.

I suspect part of the reason why men are going out less is not so much about the pay-gap, but more about the fact that everything is so damned expensive for everyone. And if you are one of those people who realistically are never going to pull in a nightclub and you prefer video games to dancing, why not just do the thing that makes you happier. (You're probably still miserable because you're not getting laid, but then you're going to be in the same boat whatever you do)

Whatever you think of their 'ideologies' Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson don't fit in this article because Tate's whole persona is about roiding up and conspiciously displaying wealth as a strategy for 'banging chicks' and Jordan Peterson would say to the shut-ins to tidy their room, get a haircut and then get out there and take part in their local communities.

 

[Tomh1966]

Yet another thing that I don’t understand. It’s a long list.

I have had guys in that age bracket ask if I want to see them in their cage. Almost makes me yearn for traditional dick pics… almost.



Emily

That is actually a common thing?

Then again a lot of stuff written here gives me the shudders. Tying me up and making me watch in a corner leads to me getting life in prison and the coroner needing a spatula to pick up the remains of the other man. Shudder.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Chastity, forced male chastity, and Eroticism.​

Can I ask the women of AH if this is a kink that any of them share, or is it just a guy thing?

Emily