When Extrapolation Goes Wrong

[Kelliezgirl]

Here's the MMFA report:
https://www.mediamatters.org/twitte...x-has-been-placing-ads-apple-bravo-ibm-oracle

I don't see anything in that report that claims "all the time" or even that it's frequent - where are you seeing that?



It certainly can do. But in the context of "cisgender", "cis" means exactly the same thing that it does in "cislunar", "cisalpine", "cis-butenedioic acid": a neutral "opposite of trans".



We do, because of how it's used.

In its original mental-health usage, "mentally retarded" was a technical term for specific kinds of mental disability - there are a few clinical definitions floating around, but "somebody with an IQ below 70-75" was one of the common ones.

What makes it a slur these days is that it's used much more generally, usually to refer to people who wouldn't meet the clinical definition of "mentally retarded", and almost invariably with a negative connotation. The idea of calling somebody "mentally retarded" as an insult comes from the attitude that mentally retarded/disabled people are bad. That's the slur, same as saying "that's so gay" when your sports team loses a game.

"Cis" is not used in that way. I hang out with a LOT of trans people and I've never once heard it used to mean something other than "not trans". Nobody says "that's so cis" when their pizza arrives cold, nobody says "are you cis or something?" when they're mad at another trans person. About the closest you'll hear is a trans person describing somebody as "cis" in a "they wouldn't understand this issue because they're not trans" kind of way, which still isn't a slur.

Another way you can tell the difference is that there are plenty of people happy to describe themselves as "cis", in particular those who hang out with trans folk and hear how the word is used. You won't see a lot of people rushing to label themselves as "retarded".

As for Media Matters, you are just quibbling. As I already stated, Media Matters achieved a result a handful of times by gaming the system in a manner no real user ever would. You are glossing over that to quibble over "they didn't use the exact verbiage you used in this one press release."
And to the greater point Musk doesn't have to tolerate libel, and taking someone to court for it doesn't mean he doesn't support free speech.

As for Cis, no disagrees it has valid uses. No one is being banned for using cislunar. And it's absolutely wonderful that none of the people you know use the term Cis in a pejorative manner. Similarly, none of my friends use retarded in a pejorative manner. That doesn't mean it can't be used that way, and if you start using either word in a pejorative manner on Twitter then you will face consequences. Why is that so unfair or difficult to understand? If you don't see it as a slur, and have never used it as a slur then really there is no problem here.

As for self-labeling. I know plenty of people who self label as gay, but gay can still be used as a slur.

 

[StillStunned]

Can we move on from the Musk debate, please? You're never going to convince each other, and no-one else cares.

StillStunned's rule of online argument: "Reply once to clear up any confusion. After that you're just shouting, not discussing."

 

[samhasstories]

I wouldn't have extrapolated from the original post that this is where we'd be in 5 pages. Topical!

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I wouldn't have extrapolated from the original post that this is where we'd be in 5 pages. Topical!

It's the Wheel of (mis)Fortune. Where she stops, nobody knows!

 

[EmilyMiller]

Can we move on from the Musk debate, please? You're never going to convince each other, and no-one else cares.

StillStunned's rule of online argument: "Reply once to clear up any confusion. After that you're just shouting, not discussing."

Seconded.

This thread will end up getting moved and you don’t really want to be interacting with the people on the Politics Forum (it happened to me and was unpleasant).

Em

 

[StillStunned]

This thread will end up getting moved and you don’t really want to be interacting with the people on the Politics Forum (it happened to me and was unpleasant).

I've written stories about obsessed voyeurs, sexual blackmailers, brother-sister incest, ghostly voyeurs and mind-controlling lust-demons, but the stuff on the Politics forum is *really* nasty.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I've written stories about obsessed voyeurs, sexual blackmailers, brother-sister incest, ghostly voyeurs and mind-controlling lust-demons, but the stuff on the Politics forum is *really* nasty.

We have to swap demon stories.

Em

 

[StillStunned]

We have to swap demon stories.

Em

I'll put yours on my weekend reading list.

 

[Bamagan]

It's a shame so many high profile billionaires have names that are otherwise normal-ish words. It's hard to play a lot of card games thanks to Trump, and Musk is causing confusion when talking about aromas and certain so-called oxen which he did not invent or even invest in. Sadly, Warren Buffet is not a self-serve restaurant. Bezos means kisses in Spanish: yuck!

 

[EmilyMiller]

I'll put yours on my weekend reading list.

There’s just the four of them

 

[Paul_Chance]

I third the motion to move the Elon Musk love/hate fest out of this thread and over to General or Politics. Please? Because a semi-random stranger from the internet asked nicely? (I think you should call the thread "Musk-Rat Love", but hey, that's just me.)

 

[EmilyMiller]

I third the motion to move the Elon Musk love/hate fest out of this thread and over to General or Politics. Please? Because a semi-random stranger from the internet asked nicely? (I think you should call the thread "Musk-Rat Love", but hey, that's just me.)

I’m not proposing that. I like the two main protagonists. I’m trying to save them and this thread from a fate worse than having to read poorly written I/T non-stop.

Em