What's going on with this guy? (characterization question)

[joy_of_cooking]

What do you think is going on with Brandon, based on these snippets?

They met in third grade. Alice Bak, the quiet, studious Chinese kid, with her neat handwriting and her careful notes and her straight A's. And Brandon Huang, defying that stereotype to run laps around the classroom when the buzzing energy overwhelmed him.

It was clear that something was wrong with Brandon. He wasn't stupid or lazy, but he was impulsive, forgetful, and unfocused. Sometimes, it seemed he simply couldn't remember what he was doing long enough to get it done.

The pace of restaurant work seemed to suit him, though. By middle school, he was an old hand on the dish machine. By freshman year, he could handle the machine by himself. He'd scrape, rack, and rinse like mad until he had built up a few loads ready to go, then hop over to the other end to unrack and stack the clean dishes as they came out. His thirty-second attention span turned out to be just long enough to make sure he never let the machine sit idle between loads.

"I suppose he'd be good for the restaurant."

"Not prep. I mean, his knife work's okay, but it took him five tries to get through a case of peppers last time. It's not like he can't focus. He can focus really well, sometimes. He just doesn't, other times."

"He's good on the wok line, though."

"He is. He's good as long as someone shouts at him every minute or two."

...The words came tumbling out faster now, taking on a clipped cadence she knew all too well...

"You fell down the hole, didn't you?" It was what they called it when he got fixated on something and read everything on the internet about it. The objects of his fixation were usually less useful than this, though.

"Uh, yeah, little bit. I remembered to go to sleep, though. Kind of. I didn't miss any classes, anyway."

Also happy to take feedback on whether this is an accurate and respectful characterization, even if it is clear.

 

[ElectricBlue]

What do you think is going on with Brandon, based on these snippets?

Also happy to take feedback on whether this is an accurate and respectful characterization, even if it is clear.

A neurodivergent mind, that clearly and I think respectfully comes across. In terms of a diagnosis, ADHD or OCD? Possible Downs Syndrome? Others here will be more precise.

There's nothing's "wrong" with him though, just different.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

There's nothing's "wrong" with him though, just different.

Ah, fair. I changed it in the body of my post but forgot the title. Fixed now.

 

[CyranoJ]

What do you think is going on with Brandon, based on these snippets?

He seems like an accurate portrayal of someone with ADHD.

And it seems like you've done your research. Most people who have only a casual impression of ADHD would miss the fixation piece. One of my closest friends has ADHD and she really is Brandon in so many ways (adjusted for differences in vocation).

 

[THBGato]

He seems like an accurate portrayal of someone with ADHD.

What I was going to say. Great bit of showing not telling.

 

[Bramblethorn]

What do you think is going on with Brandon, based on these snippets?

ADHD. As somebody with an ADHD diagnosis, it worked for me, and I'll second what Cyrano said about the fixation. I think of it more as an attention *direction* issue than an attention *deficit* issue.

 

[nice90sguy]

My son-in-law and my nephew have both been diagnosed with ADHD , and both are being medicated. They're very different from each other in character, behavior, temperament.

In fact, I think that one of them is wearing ADHD like a proud badge of uniqueness. He tries to recruit me to his club, citing my bouts of intense focus and rapid, elliptical speech when I get excited, the way ampthetanes, cocaine and caffeine relax me, and our shared tendency towards procrastination.

But I'm having none of it.

 

[CyranoJ]

the way [amphetamines], cocaine and caffeine relax me

Putting on my Addict Hat: these are not characteristic traits of ADHD, necessarily. But you should be concerned about them as potential indicators of addiction, with cocaine and amphetamines in particular.

I've been clean for fifteen years at this point, but I know well the havoc these substances can wreak on people's lives. Avoid going there if you can.

 

[nice90sguy]

Yeah, I wouldn't argue with someone who'd say I have "an addictive personality", whatever that means

 

[CyranoJ]

Yeah, I wouldn't argue with someone who'd say I have "an addictive personality", whatever that means

IDK what that means either. You're either an addict or not. An "addictive personality" is probably not a thing, I'm not telling you I have an "addictive personality." I'm just talking to you as an addict in recovery.

 

[nice90sguy]

I know you weren't labelling me, but I actually think "addictive personality" is a thing.

 

[CyranoJ]

Perhaps so, but it's not something I'm claiming. I'm skeptical of that framing, but that's a whole different conversation.

[EDIT: I see now you were saying that you might have an addictive personality. I get it. Reason for extra vigilance and I apologize for the miscue. But really... anyone in the right combination of circumstances has an addictive personality. You're VERY far from alone on that score.]

 

[CyranoJ]

(Also, and I'm being fully real here: if you're struggling with narcotic or amphetamine addiction, or even just the potential of either, seriously. DM me. I've been there and I'll help in any way I can.)

 

[Bramblethorn]

Putting on my Addict Hat: these are not characteristic traits of ADHD, necessarily. But you should be concerned about them as potential indicators of addiction, with cocaine and amphetamines in particular.

Not diagnosing anybody with anything but I will note that "both" is a possibility. IIRC, there's evidence suggesting that smoking rates are higher among people with schizophrenia, not because smoking causes schizophrenia, but because nicotine provides some level of self-medication against some of the symptoms. I haven't seen studies but it wouldn't surprise me if there was something similar with ADHD and amphetamine use.

 

[nice90sguy]

Terms like "ADHD" and, even "dyslexia", "schizophrenia" and "bipolar" have an important benefit, of destigmatzing character traits, taking us step by step further away from witches and possession by evil spirits.

But a big danger comes with the imprecision of these terms. People never fall into neat categories, and sometimes I think we'd be just as well served by using our horoscope sign as personality descriptors.

That's the whole reason we need whole novels to describe a person's character truthfully. It takes a lot more than a few words or senetnces to paint a true portrait of someone.

Great writers like J D Salinger can manage it in a couple of thousand words.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Terms like "ADHD" and, even "dyslexia", "schizophrenia" and "bipolar" have an important benefit, of destigmatzing character traits, taking us step by step further away from witches and possession by evil spirits.

But a big danger comes with the imprecision of these terms. People never fall into neat categories, and sometimes I think we'd be just as well served by using our horoscope sign as personality descriptors.

There's always going to be a tension between lumping and splitting, over-generalisation and under-generalisation.

Sometimes my labels are useful to me in finding kindred spirits, or coping strategies that work for me, or as a quick way of explaining some important things to somebody when I don't have time or energy for the full life story. And then sometimes, yeah, I get pigeonholed alongside people who have very little in common with me, and people make very bad assumptions.

As the George Box paraphrase goes, "all models are wrong but some models are useful". For the psychiatric ones I'd stick a big "sometimes" at the end.

That's the whole reason we need whole novels to describe a person's character truthfully. It takes a lot more than a few words or senetnces to paint a true portrait of someone.

I wrote a story here about two different autistic people and it did indeed end up being a whole novel, so I can hardly argue with this one.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I'd guess Brandon might eventually get diagnosed with ADHD or autism (there's a big overlap), but would agree with just describing symptoms, because then he's an individual and no-one can argue with the diagnosis.



How plausible is the 'running laps round the classroom' in the time and location of the story, though?



It might be physically possible for some of the classrooms my kids have been in, but would have to squeeze past chairs, and a TA would take such a kid out or have them in the chill-out corner jumping up and down rather than being in the way. In my own third-grade classroom the desks were all bolted to the floor and you had to file in in order into your seat in order to get between the 4-seat or 3-seat desks. No-one was running anywhere - it would be like doing a lap on a discount airline! And even in the bigger classrooms, such a kid would get a slap and possibly get tied to their chair.



Running around after the whistle went for the end of break time - that happened, always the same few kids (including Ramona Quimby, for a literary example!), and looking back, at least two were dyslexic and probably had something like ADHD. They went round when I was about 12 (1987ish?) diagnosing a few classmates with dyslexia, which was the first I'd heard of it.



A fair few of my characters have various disabilities, not necessarily the same as any of mine. Ali has an unnamed condition making her easily exhausted and often lacking in muscular strength. Might be EDS or MS or several other things, but how it affects her and her sex life is the important thing. Richie and his family are likely all autistic, but he's my age and wouldn't have been diagnosed as a child. His son is, though (haven't written that, yet).

 

[VerbalAbuse]

Let's go, Brandon!

 

[Britva415]

I think of it more as an attention *direction* issue than an attention *deficit* issue.

Absolutely. ADHD attention can be extremely non-deficient, when aimed in a compelling direction. The unfortunate part is that those directions aren't always the expected, productive or responsible ones.

 

[intim8]

What do you think is going on with Brandon, based on these snippets?











Also happy to take feedback on whether this is an accurate and respectful characterization, even if it is clear.

Are you asking what is going on with him other than neurodivergence, on the spectrum?

Edit: Would the question confuse Brandon as much as it confused me?