Degrees of obscenity in English

[Skeptiker]

These days, I started reading an erotic text translated to German (from English). But the translation was horrible, an so I gave up after a few pages. (I had read about the practice of publishing mechanically translated texts before, but it had never happened to me.)

This experience made me think that it might be worthwile to translate one of my own eBooks (publishd as Rheinhardt v. Icken) into English. The result will certainly not be perfect - but it will probably be much better than the "German" text I mentioned above.

There is only one problem: Of course I know English words for all (or at least most) parts of the body and "actions" - scientific terms as well as vulgar names - relevant for erotic/pornographic writing. But there may be much more, and - above all - in most cases I am not sure, where the words are situated on a scale of "normal" vs. vulgar or obscene use.

My impression is, for example, that "pussy" is the friendlyest way to refer to a vulva, while "cunt" might be the most offensive way. But is this true? And what alternatives are there in between? (In German, we have the cascade from "Muschi" or "Pussy" via "Möse" down to "Fotze" or occasionally "Loch".)

I hope to find some people here at Literotica who are willing to help. (The more, the better, since the order of obscenity may not be the same for everyone.) Please give me a selection of words, in order of increasing obscenity, for the following words and other relevant parts/actions, since my list is certainly far from complete:

Vulva
Breast
Penis (erect)
Penis (not erected)
Testicles
Scrotum
Anus
Mouth
Man
Woman

Intercourse (conventional)
Intercourse (anal)
Intercourse (oral)
Intercourse (mixed)
Intercourse/Masturbation between the breasts

Masturbation (male)
Masturbation (female)

Exhibitionism
Voyeurism

 

[Handley_Page]

I fear you may hit a bit of a problem here.
A lot may depend upon WHERE the action of your story takes place.
In England, 'cunt' is not not a polite word [to call someone a cunt is not a nice thing to do] although it is a term oft-used in describing 'sexual athletics'

 

[LexxRuthless]

I fear you may hit a bit of a problem here.
A lot may depend upon WHERE the action of your story takes place.
In England, 'cunt' is not not a polite word [to call someone a cunt is not a nice thing to do] although it is a term oft-used in describing 'sexual athletics'

...whereas in the United States it may well be the worst, most derogatory insult you can use.

Sadly, none of this stuff was covered in any of my high school German classes.

 

[AlinaX]

Without intending to be in any way authoratative, some comments:

Vulva - Pussy tends to be the best way to describe the external features; it's not loved by all, but there is no term acceptable to all. One person I know insists on showing a photo of a wet cat every time people talk about pussy. Pussy, like cunt, can be used in a very derogatory way. (He's such a pussy. He's a total cunt.) Cunt, on the other hand, is more a variation on vagina. For many, cunt is far too crude, while vagina is far too clinical. Alternatives such as hole, tunnel, entrance, etc., can be problematic also, so it's a no-win situation. I guess you can play safe and just use pussy for the full anatomy. See also: womanhood, sex.

Breast - Probably the best. Tits and especially boobs can be a bit childish. Chest is more the area than the features. See also: nipples, areolae.

Penis (erect) - Penis is very clinical, but can be used occasionally. Cock, I think, is the neutral best. Dick, maybe. See also: length, member, shaft.

Penis (not erected) - Limp? Flaccid? Semi-erect? Semi-hard?

Testicles - Clinical, but okay. Balls is the neutral best.

Scrotum - Sure. Why not.

Anus - Yeah, but clinical. Ass is the neutral best. Arse, also, if British. See also: sphincter, rosebud, bum.

Mouth - Mouth is good. See also: lips, tongue. (Note that some facial features are used elsewhere, i.e., lips for labia, cheeks for the bum.)

Intercourse/Masturbation between the breasts - I struggle with this one. Titfuck? Breastfuck? Titjob?

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Not to be negative, but I have to agree with the above. You're going to see a variation between countries and even between regions. (For instance, 'fanny' in my part of the world is the buttocks; a minister could use the word in a sermon or a mother to her toddler; in the UK, it refers to female genitals and nobody is going to use the term in a 'proper' conversation.) Within a given area, I suspect there'll be variations due to education levels, ethnicity and probably between the sexes, maybe even along political lines.

I wish you luck, but I fear it may be a Sisyphean task.

 

[enigma3]

Yeah i prefer not to use "cunt" as a reference to a ladies peach.....cunts are the people i meet at work.

 

[SimonDoom]

The "best" word to use often is a matter of context. It depends on the story. Specifically, you have to think about (a) who are your characters (if the word is used in dialogue) and (b) who is the narrator?

Some people, for example, hate the word "cunt." Some women never use it and never want it used around them, because it's so often used as a derogatory term directed at women. But some women don't feel that way at all. Some people embrace obscenity and think it's sexy. Some don't.

When you choose your words, think first about who your characters are and also think about the kind of narrative voice you want to adopt.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Not to be negative, but I have to agree with the above. You're going to see a variation between countries and even between regions.

Countries, regions, even contexts. In Australia calling a "cunt" could be anything from a mortal insult to a term of endearment.

 

[AnnieLit]

Setting of your story?
American students on their summer break in Germany in 2019 and British tourists in 1957 will use very different language.

 

[ElectricBlue]

There's no such thing as a universal ranking of obscenity, there are too many variables: cultural, national, political, politically correct, snowflake, precious, etc etc. It comes down to personal preferences and fitness for purpose. What's the perfect word for one person is anathema for another.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Are you going to aim for American or UK English? Either way, a quick search for 'list of dirty words in order of offence' gets you various pointers. Bear in mind that nice polite characters who don't swear much will use euphemisms like 'his hard rod' or 'her moist love channel', to use some overused ones, or simply 'down there' or 'he entered her'.
More blunt characters, or more mature ones used to talking about sex, will go for fucking, cock, dick, pussy and possibly, cunt. I wouldn't have characters call each other cunt as there's no real need even in Glasgow and it's impossible to explain when it might be a term of endearment vs a dire insult. If you want a word that men might use to each other that's also an insult, go for bastard in the UK, (mother)fucker elsewhere.

If your characters are the sort to use the word fuck in private at least, that will get you a long way ('the fucking fucker's fucking fucked' would be a reasonable translation of 'dieses verdammtes Scheißauto', I think).

Cock, then dick, are the commonest words for penis. Some people think pussy is twee or offensive but it's the best neutral term. Words suggesting violence like gash, slit, or crude terms for vulva lips like flaps, beef curtains, sound pretty misogynist so worse than cunt, in many cases.

Probably easiest to translate your book and get an editor to make it more native-English sounding. If you read stories on Lit with similar content,that may help.

 

[Skeptiker]

I am sorry

I should have made my intention much clearer from the beginning.
The book I'll try to publish in English is erotic, or – to be honest - pornographic. It is full of explicit sexual scenes that are described in varying degrees of obscenity. This is why I am not so much interested in "the best" word to use for the listed terms, but in a bunch of words for each of them - from more or less "normal"-ones you might use in a conversation with friends or colleagues (perhaps even in the presence of women) to highly vulgar or obscene words you might at best use in "dirty talk".

E. g. (to expand the example given in the opening post), the female protagonist will usually call her vulva "meine Muschi". In a slightly aroused state, it becomes "meine Möse", and in a highly aroused state it changes to "meine Fotze", which 'normally' would be very insulting and pejorative. This word is especially insulting and devaluating when used not for the vulva alone, but for a woman as a whole. Nevertheless, in an extremely arousing situation (NOT in the volume I plan to translate), she calls herself that way. While masturbating after unsatisfactory sex with one man and later with a second-one, she experiences a spiritual metamorphosis: "I simply couldn't help: Under my Fingers my 'Möse' became my 'Fotze', and when I went on, I became a 'Fotze' myself." (Consequently, the motto of the volume containing this story is: "In the beginning there was the cunt [???], and the cunt was in me, and I was the cunt."
By the way – the motto of the first volume I intend to translate, is: "Never do I covet my playmate more than when I see her fucking with other men, never do I love her more than when she returns into my arms - still wet with her lust.")

As to the question of America vs. UK: Personally, as e European, I prefer UK English, but in this case it's the sheer number of potential readers that makes me opt for the American side.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Gotcha. I'd go for pussy, snatch, cunt, there. And 'I became a cunt myself'.
The motto sounds rather wordy - 'fucking other men' would be more natural than 'fucking with', and cutting 'with her lust' would, I think, improve the very long sentence, as it's obvious what she's wet with, and a bit of an overblown cliché.

 

[oggbashan]

You any find thes links useful:

http://sex-lexis.com/

http://unix****lez.org/~calver/fun/sex.html

https://www.allacronyms.com/sexual/abbreviations

https://www.scribd.com/doc/16522424/Dirty-Slang-Dictionary

http://www.luckymojo.com/faqs/altsex/vocab.html

 

[AnnieLit]

Got it.

Breasts:
Cleavage (when still somewhat dressed)
Rack (D+, fully dressed in tight fitting top)
Boobs
Boobies
Tits
Titties
Teats
Udders (I hate this word, but some are ok with it and even like it)

Oh, and for American English you might want to check the urban dictionary: https://www.urbandictionary.com/

 

[Skeptiker]

One more remark

... after an closer look to the other posts (thanks for all of them): I do not want to be politically correct, nor do I mind that a lot of people wont appreciate my stories. I write them for those who do. Mainly for men who have (as most of them) preserved a certain sound immaturity. NOT for feminists. NOT for snowflakes, NOT for …

Thanks espacially to Kumquatqueen for the concrete proposals! However, the mottos (in the book) are not written as a normal text, but as a verses. And the phrase that ends "... and I was the cunt" is a modified 'quote' of the Gospel of John 1,1.

Special thanks also to oggbashan for his useful links.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

You missed 'melons' @AnnieLit!
And 'jugs' and 'hooters'...
(All of which could be preceded by 'Nice...!' by a passing cat-caller)

The grammar isn't quite right for a Bible verse - note it's John 1: 1 in English, kein Komma.

Course, you might not want tips from a feminist... (Looks for sticking-out-tongue emoji, gives up, this post is worth what you paid for it, etc.

 

[Skeptiker]

Well, Kumquatqueen - I appreciate tips from feminists, too. I only said that I do not WRITE for them. (If they like my writing: the better.) Thanks also for the hint how to cite Bible verses correctly. (But since I don't mention the 'source' in my book ...)

Thanks also for your earlier proposal to have the text edited by a native speaker. Obviously, this would be the ideal way to do it. But the 'income' I can expected in a realm, where there are so many - often really good or even excellent - free alternatives, does not justify any efforts in that direction. (I tried to win a voluntary Literotica editor when I ventilated the idea for the first time some years ago, but was rejected once, and didn't get a response in two other cases.)

 

[AlinaX]

I find these remarks confusing. Words are not intrinsically problematic; context is everything. It's one thing to say your characters are antifeminist and dismissive of 'snowflakes', quite something else for you, the author, to say the same.

 

[ElectricBlue]

As to the question of America vs. UK: Personally, as e European, I prefer UK English, but in this case it's the sheer number of potential readers that makes me opt for the American side.

The problem you might have with that approach, in my mind, is the difficulty of getting the European nuance across to an "American" audience. They're going to spot right away that you're not American because you'll not be getting the American English "right." You might be better off translating into English English, because that way those damn Yankee readers will at least figure out that your characters aren't meant to be American.

As an example, I write in Australian English, and would never attempt to set something in America because it would be spotted a mile off that it was "wrong" - because the little details would catch me out. Like footpath vs sidewalk - I've never been on a sidewalk in my life, except twice in Los Angeles and that was going everywhere by car, so doesn't count. It's like reading a book set in Australia, written by an American or Englishman who's never lived here - they're cringe-worthy, sometimes.

It's a tricky question, and no simple answer. I hope you figure out a good solution .