8letters' big list of tips

[AchtungNight]

Make sure your villains make sense with the setting and characters. If you’re in a college setting, bring in a bully boyfriend, an overprotective parent, or a jerk teacher. For celebrities, involve the paparazzi and perhaps a gossip monger backing them (my story Counseling did this). Redeem your villain if possible- can Harley Quinn work with Batman if he gets her away from Joker? Throw Punchline at Joker if he still needs a girlfriend. If you’re writing in fantasy, the evil sorcerer kidnapping the princess is an obvious villain. The knight and his bisexual dragon mount who can transform into a human rescue the princess and she grabs the sorcerer’s spell book after he’s defeated. Or replace the sorcerer with a terrorist leader for a modern military story. Or an alien overlord for science fiction.

Or don’t use villains. Just have a bad girl romance a good guy and take it from there. Or reverse it if you like bad boy vs good girl. Or two girls or two guys. Your decision.

 

[SimonDoom]

I find it disturbing that I agree with everything said above. Either you've found your missing lobe, or I've lost one.

It's good to see you coming around. I feel like an exorcist who had a good day on the job.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

It's good to see you coming around. I feel like an exorcist who had a good day on the job.

Keep up the good work!

 

[gunhilltrain]

Duplicate post deleted.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

8Letters is correct that longer stories tend to get higher scores. If you track the winners of contests, they're much more likely to consist of over 6 Lit pages than under 4. I think his data and conclusions are correct.

But for me, personally, I think many Lit stories are too long. When I sit down to read a Lit story, I usually don't want a novel or even a novella. If a story is 10 Lit pages, that means it's about 37,500 words. That's close to a novel, the threshold for which is generally regarded as 40,000 words. The Great Gatsby is just a little over 40,000 words long.

The average short story in the New Yorker is much more likely to be under 7000 words long. The average O. Henry short story is, I believe, well under 5000 words. Yet a story of that length is likely to fare worse at Literotica in terms of score than a significantly longer story.

Everybody's taste is different. I find many Lit stories to be bloated. Way too much time is spent on buildup, and unnecessary dialogue, and lots of angst. None of that makes a story "better" or more "artistic" to me. I've read many 8-page Lit stories that I thought would be better as 5-page stories.

I think it's true that if you make a deliberate effort to stretch out your story from 5 pages to 8 pages you are likely to get a higher score at Literotica. But is that worthwhile? What kind of artistic goal is that?

Are you sure that those bloated stories with excessive build-up and a lot of filler dialogue are the ones that are getting the highest scores? There are long stories that are well-written and where the pacing is good, and there are those that aren't. I am not sure if you wanted to say that the ones that are bloated and have bad pacing are the ones getting really high scores? If it's the well-written ones, then it is justified. As I've stated in a different thread, it is harder to write a good long story than a good short story, in my opinion.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I beg to differ in two ways. First off, stories with essentially the same plot can have different lengths. See the recent "You, Me And The Sea" vs "Sandcastles" brouhaha. "You, Me And The Sea" told essentially the same story as "Sandcastles" in a much shorter space because it didn't have as much dialogue, description, and exposition.

Secondly, the author controls the plot. You can add plot twists or subplots. You can add scenes that slowly advance the plot but are more there to provide a fuller picture of the characters.


That would require a new thread. For now, the only new threads I'm creating are for story statistics, and I'm not very motivated to create those.


It all depends on your goals. If all you want to do is write stories, then don't use an editor or beta-readers as they increase the time it takes to publish a story. I want my stories to be the very best they can be, so I use a lot of beta-readers to get as many ideas for improving my story as possible.

There are some on the AH who have the attitude that someone who uses an editor or a beta-reader is no longer responsible for their story; that it is then a story written by committee. I don't understand that. I make every decision about what's in my story. You don't get a gold star put on your story because you didn't use an editor or beta-reader.

For that first one, I think we're basically in agreement. The wording must have confused us.

For the second one, I was merely saying that solid blocks of text are hard to read.

For professional authors - well, I'm not sure what they do. There has to be a "gatekeeper" editor for the magazine or publishing company (or website) that will affect what happens. I didn't say anything about "gold stars" or committees. You do it they way you wish and I'll do it the way I wish.

 

[SimonDoom]

Are you sure that those bloated stories with excessive build-up and a lot of filler dialogue are the ones that are getting the highest scores? There are long stories that are well-written and where the pacing is good, and there are those that aren't. I am not sure if you wanted to say that the ones that are bloated and have bad pacing are the ones getting really high scores? If it's the well-written ones, then it is justified. As I've stated in a different thread, it is harder to write a good long story than a good short story, in my opinion.

It's purely my personal opinion. Others will, I am sure, completely disagree with me about what a bloated story is. I have read plenty of stories that have astronomically high scores that I thought were bloated and wished were much shorter.

I don't entirely agree that it's harder to write a good long story. In a sense it may be harder to sustain quality over a longer time, but I think a mark of writing talent is the ability to edit an 8 page draft into an even better 5 page final story.

 

[lovecraft68]

Thanks for the compliments.


My stories are typically slow-burn stories where the action between the main characters steadily ramps up, so they don't get naked until quite a ways into the story. Consequently, it's how the MFC looks dressed that determines her "hotness" for the reader. For example, on 8/14, I'm going to publish a 30K-word story set in 1952. That required a huge amount of research on clothing. There's hot action throughout the story, but she's dressed the whole time for the first 25K words. On 8/21, I'm going to publish a 36K-word story that has sex throughout, but the MMC doesn't see someone naked until the last 2K words.

Looks like you're going to start posting stories again. Are you bringing back your old ones?

 

[ElectricBlue]

It's purely my personal opinion. Others will, I am sure, completely disagree with me about what a bloated story is. I have read plenty of stories that have astronomically high scores that I thought were bloated and wished were much shorter.

I don't entirely agree that it's harder to write a good long story. In a sense it may be harder to sustain quality over a longer time, but I think a mark of writing talent is the ability to edit an 8 page draft into an even better 5 page final story.

It's time to pull out the Churchill: "Sorry about the long letter. I didn't have time to write a short one."

 

[8letters]

8Letters is correct that longer stories tend to get higher scores. If you track the winners of contests, they're much more likely to consist of over 6 Lit pages than under 4. I think his data and conclusions are correct.

But for me, personally, I think many Lit stories are too long. When I sit down to read a Lit story, I usually don't want a novel or even a novella. If a story is 10 Lit pages, that means it's about 37,500 words. That's close to a novel, the threshold for which is generally regarded as 40,000 words. The Great Gatsby is just a little over 40,000 words long.

Longer stories have on average higher ratings, more views, more favorites, and more comments. But let's talk about what's important - you.

Why should I care about your opinion? You're one person. I/T on Literotica has an audience of tens of thousands. The small percentage of that audience that takes the time to vote 5's, to favor, and to leave a comment prefer long stories, the longer the better. Every time I've looked at story statistics, that's what the stats say. As I want a higher rating, more favorites, and more comments, that small percentage is the audience I write for.

I'm not telling people to write longer stories. Write what you want. I'm fortunate that the type of story I most like to write is the kind that gets a great reception on Literotica.

But if you want a higher rating, more views, more favorites, and more comments, writing longer stories seems the most likely way of getting that.

 

[lovecraft68]

Not only am I ashamed to share the same site with them, but I'm also ashamed to share the same galaxy with them.

Feeling is mutual, just for different reasons

 

[Comshaw]

And yet, for some weird reason, you have turned your back on those readers and are giving all the attention to the occupants of this forum, namely Simon. If your tips had any value, they became irrelevant once you took down your stories.

I have repeatedly shown how the mindless voters are like alley junkies hooked on literary junk food. They are easily manipulated and will upvote anything flashy and attention-grabbing, even if it is poorly written and has no substance. Catering to the lowest common denominator is a crime against the creative process.

Any author who continues to feed these addicts with their garbage is no better than a soulless drug dealer. Not only am I ashamed to share the same site with them, but I'm also ashamed to share the same galaxy with them.

Authors who pad their work with straw are like drug dealers mixing their drugs with washing powder, knowingly poisoning their readers. They should be figuratively put against the wall in front of a firing squad. The addicts might have a tough time in rehab, but once they sober up, they'll thank their saviors.

Brother Loves Traveling Salvation Show


Comshaw

 

[Comshaw]

Touché. I should stop going out with holograms.

Most guys don't write cock size because they're average, bang on the bell curve (statistics and Kinsey with his ruler). I write what I have, and I'm not chopping two inches off just to please a formula.

I've seen some eyes light up, and who knew those women played the piano .

BAWAHAHA Aw yes, the hall of illusions that is the interwebs. I have 22" biceps and can make a woman faint by taking my shirt off. I also have a tongue that would make a woodpecker envious and I can do pushups with it.

If you aren't familiar with the old axiom "first liar doesn't stand a chance", now you are.

Comshaw

 

[ElectricBlue]

BAWAHAHA Aw yes, the hall of illusions that is the interwebs. I have 22" biceps and can make a woman faint by taking my shirt off. I also have a tongue that would make a woodpecker envious and I can do pushups with it.

If you aren't familiar with the old axiom "first liar doesn't stand a chance", now you are.

Comshaw

You know the other old axiom, "Write what you know"? Shrug.

 

[Comshaw]

You know the other old axiom, "Write what you know"? Shrug.

You know the other old axiom, "Write what you know"? Shrug.

Absolutely. And since this is a site for the production and publishing of sexual fiction and fantasies, I think all of us here know about that. It's just that some are more consistent with it than others.


Comshaw

 

[KenNicottii]

I will say the cheat for this, at least with more modern clothes, is to browse online catalogs and not just look at the pictures, but read the descriptions for them.

Online stores will usually give you the proper terminology for the outfit in question, along with all the descriptive terms you might need; form fitting, low cut, comfortable, scoop necked, spaghetti strapped, etc.

Amen to that. I’m working on a story where I needed some inspiration for a summertime dress that the FMC would wear. I Googled ‘sundress’ and got an endless number of images. I clicked on one, and the Lulus website came up. I don’t know anything about Lulus, being a man, but it seems like they have nice-looking dresses for under $100. Lots of them. Actually, close to a thousand sundresses!

When you click on a dress, they all have detailed descriptions like Djmac mentioned. Plus, they have info on the fit, particularly how the dress could (maybe) accommodate the dimensions of normal, non-model women. And they helpfully give the specs on the model for comparison – no surprises there. All tall and thin, wearing XS-size dresses.

I guess this all plays into the fantasy of erotic fiction written by and (mostly) for men. I’ve only used female editors so far who have not been shy about pointing out unrealistic male fantasy content. But fashion choices haven’t been one of those topics.

 

[Mogrem]

There are also those who supposedly read insanely fast. I wonder if they are true geniuses or if they merely skim through the text, missing the essence of what's written.

Its been well studied and its the latter.

The basic trick is to 'turn off' one's inner voice, the one that reads it like a narrator. Once one does that its possible to read faster, and faster, and faster...

Unfortunately when reading faster than that inner voice one's comprehension and recall* goes down, and down, and down...

____
* Both how likely one is to remember immediately afterwards and how long one remembers it for. Interesting side point: Recall is much higher for reading in print than on a screen, even compared to a Kindle e-ink screen. Personally I think its because the physical positions in the book helps one remember things, such as, "I remember this scene about a quarter in into that novel, I can still see the crease in the spine when I look up at my bookshelf, from where I thumbed back to it so often."