"Sub" isn't something to be ashamed of...

[begin irked rant]

...or to endure until one can move into being being a Dom/me.

For some of us, it's just as real, just as vital, just as proud a thing as any of the Dominants feel being Dom/me is - or any of the Switches feel their need is.

I'm getting kinda irked at the sudden intimations of "well, i guess i'm sub until things change for the better and i learn more - and then i can be Dom!" that have begun to creep in here.

I am submissive sexually.
I am a sexually submissive woman.
That's a part of who i am at the core of myself.

I am never going to be a sexually Dominant woman. I don't want to be a Domme. I don't even like to Switch, and -so- i do it badly. It's not comfortable for me, not erotic.

I take pride in being a good submissive. I have honed and polished my skills over many years and i take pride in my abilities in this area. Not everyone is suited to sexual submission, just as not everyone is suited to either of the others. Sexual submission is a thing of who i am at a very basic level, perhaps even a genetic level. It's not a fucking choice or something i got as the booby prize cuz i wasn't good enough to get promoted into Dommehood.

Dominants, Switches, and submissives are all necessary to the balance and flow of healthy BDSM sexality. None is inherently better than the others. There is no fucking "graduation" or natural progression from starting as a lowly, unformed, take-orders-from-any-asshole submissive to the unbounded glory of issuing those orders to lowly cringing know-nothing subs.

Fuck that. That's not what my life, what all my years as a submissive, have been about at all.

One is what s/he is.

[end irked rant]

~applaudes~

Bless you.

[Muffie is very nice and edits inappropriate commentary]

Hey, cym, you've been one all your life darlin. You've never been anything else. For those slowly accepting it after a few years of nothing else, the idea that they're submissive-- with all of the negative mainstream connotations attached to that word-- has got to be terrifying. They have to rationalize it some way.

Either that or they aren't BDSM and just want to be kinky.

Strength in submission. Just as your titles says, it takes an incredible amount of strengthand courage to embrace your submissive spirit. It would be so easy to deny, seeing as though women, today, are fed conflicting information. KM has a point. I just hope submissives, novice or experienced, find a comfort in being what they are- submissive.

I understand that some people have a hard time accepting desires within themselves for alternate forms of sexual pleasure. However, I believe that self acceptance is necessary to fully revel in one's sexuality. We are all equally valuable, whether we are subs, Dom/mes, Switches or fall into some other category.

Sexual submission and the ability to direct or be in control in other areas of life are not mutually exclusive concepts. Once I accepted my sexually submissive nature, a whole new world opened up for me. I hope others find their journey to be equally rewarding.

As a Dominant I wish to insert My two cents into this thread.

We Dominants would be unfullfilled human beings without the incredible strength and beauty gifted to Us by submissives. Anyone that views a submissive as weak or second class has never tasted their courage and pride.

I am talking past the play day and into the every day, the heart and soul of the most incredible human beings I have had the good fortune to know.

I look down AT the submissive as the submissive looks UP at Me. Both looking at each other from where we wish to be. Where we need to be. Our strengths are equal...just meted out differently.

Oh yes, we are all who and what we are. And some of us have a hard time finding our place in all of this.

I understand, cym, that for you the lines are clean and clear cut. For me it is not that simple. I know and embrace my submissive nature, during the last few months I have begun to explore the other side of the crop, so to speak.

I like having options... I really like there are no rules here... I really like that my life with Himself is what we make it and want it to be... and if he likes me being submissive to him but dominant with another woman, who is to say that is not okay...

I am not ashamed,however,there are people who need to find out who they are.

Exploring all there is to do in this life isnt wrong,one day they will figure out what they want and need.

i'm very glad you said that...

i've been studying the field of BDSM for a fairly short time of course, but i'd say without exception ALL the really BAD examples of BDSM behavior i've seen have been of the Dom/me variety.

The wannabe's who have no idea what the lifestyle is about, with few exceptions, go for the black leather, spikes and heaven forbid they leave the whip at home.

Any good Dom will readily admit that without a sub who is willing, skilled and who takes pride in his/her subbing, being a Dom/me is a sad, lonely, even pathetic thing.

It seems to me the D/s part of the BDSM equation is in no way related to any idea of superior/inferior, in spite of what it might look like to the untrained eye.

When Fred and Ginger dance, is she thought to be inferior because the convention calls her steps "following" and his steps "leading"?

If they don't dance with perfect precision and match each other step for step it is just wrong and the dance is ruined.

A good BDSM partnership should be based on equality, but it's too often easier for the sub to make adjustments and settle for an imperfect "fit".

It's easier for a sub to bear an unfair amount of the burden just to make things work. This actually points to the superiority of the sub, but from the outside it will not look that way.

The eye is drawn to the whip, as with an orchestra where the eye is drawn to the baton and the conductor. But the magic comes from the ones you're NOT looking at.

i agree with your frustration at the way people who don't understand see things, but i think you'll find all the best Dom/mes lining up behind you in support of the truth you have spoken here.

But you must have noticed that nearly HALF the people in the world are of LESS than average intelligence.(shocking) This can't be the only example of human behavior that pisses you off.

Don't let that stop you from givin'em HELL, darlin'. Hell's what they deserve.

You do your part every day to prove that subs ARE the foundation, the bedrock.

In a way, you might say: subs RULE!
and You ROCK, cym


Blue

cellis said:

Oh yes, we are all who and what we are. And some of us have a hard time finding our place in all of this.

I understand, cym, that for you the lines are clean and clear cut. For me it is not that simple. I know and embrace my submissive nature, during the last few months I have begun to explore the other side of the crop, so to speak.

I like having options... I really like there are no rules here... I really like that my life with Himself is what we make it and want it to be... and if he likes me being submissive to him but dominant with another woman, who is to say that is not okay...

Click to expand...

cellis, i understand that you, like so many of us (all of us in some ways), are still searching for your core identity from within the whirling carousel of sexual choices that make up the BDSM world. I feel for those who are walking this path, too, new and still unsure and sometimes hesitant. At the same time, it's all so wildly exhilarating. I know.

My remarks weren't directed at anyone in particular but were just a kinda muted "fuck you" to those who have posted here with an attitude of...well...all the stuff i said in the opening post.

Being a sexual submissive is not, for MANY of us, merely a rest stop on the BDSM highway.

It's not kindergarten, a place where the BDSM babies stay until they know enough to go on to real school.

It's not something we do because we're too weak to dominate anyone.

Sexual submission is as legitimate a mode of sexuality as is anything else in the world.

I'm not a nilla, a good thing since i'm no good at it.
I'm not a Switch, a good thing since i'm no good at it.
I'm not a Dominant, a good thing since i'm no good at it.
I'm a sexual submissive, a good and right thing for me.

Coming to BDSM sexuality is sorta like being a piece of something in a stew. When one first gets splashed into the already-bubbling stewpot, they may not have a clue whether they're a carrot or piece of stew meat. One bobs to the top and begins swimming around, taking little bites of other stew ingredients to see if they taste interesting, like something one wants to hang onto. It is, however, rude as hell to kick to the side those who don't taste quite like what one is after. We're all necessary to a fully-flavored stew. All of us. And some of us will kick you back, too, weak little ignorant subbie-stew-meat or not.

cellis, this was not aimed at you, particularly, though i used your comments to further illustrate my point. It was aimed at an attitude, actually, not a particular person or certain people.

I know it's not easy, but I think it's important to go with what you feel inside. That's not always easy as the lines can be somewhat confused - I know I was. I thought hard about what I wanted emotionally and sexually.

Now for me it's a process of learning...

Personally

Personally, I am glad that cym is a sub . . . and why would a good sub ever want to be anything but a good sub? "We is what we is" and as I have said many, many times . . . we need to respect each other. Oh, and cym don't ever change!

I went the other way recently, from Domme to sub, and I certainly didnt see it as a step down, it was wonderful. to be hogtied and face down and tingling with anticipation as to what exactly he was going to do to me did not in any way seem inferior to anything I'd felt before. for me it wasn't a superior feeling either, guess I fit as nicely in the switch space as i thought i did!

I personally feel sorry for those who angered you cymbidia, if they feel that way it is they who are missing out.

cymbidia said:

cellis, i understand that you, like so many of us (all of us in some ways), are still searching for your core identity from within the whirling carousel of sexual choices that make up the BDSM world. I feel for those who are walking this path, too, new and still unsure and sometimes hesitant. At the same time, it's all so wildly exhilarating. I know.

My remarks weren't directed at anyone in particular but were just a kinda muted "fuck you" to those who have posted here with an attitude of...well...all the stuff i said in the opening post.

Being a sexual submissive is not, for MANY of us, merely a rest stop on the BDSM highway.

It's not kindergarten, a place where the BDSM babies stay until they know enough to go on to real school.

It's not something we do because we're too weak to dominate anyone.

Sexual submission is as legitimate a mode of sexuality as is anything else in the world.

Click to expand...

I, too, have noticed the "i'm a sub until something better comes along" attitude in several posts. In my mind, there are perhaps two reasons that some people have this misconception firmly in their beliefs. First is the "best way to learn to be a good Dom/me is to sub first" theory that seems to be so widespread, particularly online. In my admittedly very limited experience, i don't think this is the case at all. Second, submission is diametrically opposite of the vast majority of the values and mores of contemporary society. Some people probably have a hard time accepting their submissiveness in light of all the assertiveness training that seems to be happening now.

It takes a very different kind of strength to be submissive, a strength that is not often recognized. I think for some people, it's easier to build on more obvious strengths rather than nurture a more hidden one.


BDSM Kindergarten? That concept appeals to me. It will certainly help me walk into my classroom with a smile on my face tomorrow. (I plan to remain in Kindergarten forever, by the way)

morninggirl5 said:

It takes a very different kind of strength to be submissive, a strength that is not often recognized. I think for some people, it's easier to build on more obvious strengths rather than nurture a more hidden one.

Click to expand...

On the flip side,if you say you are a sub,people almost automatically make you feel as though you are not right,warped even.

I was told that being a sub was just wrong and just a easy way for a man to abuse you and call it love.

I didnt even try to make this person understand.

So based on that thought,some people assume that sub's are not strong,nor something that you should want to be.

lovetoread said:

On the flip side,if you say you are a sub,people almost automatically make you feel as though you are not right,warped even.

I was told that being a sub was just wrong and just a easy way for a man to abuse you and call it love.

I didnt even try to make this person understand.

So based on that thought,some people assume that sub's are not strong,nor something that you should want to be.

Click to expand...

You're right, LTR, so many people have these beliefs and i think it is one reason that subs are wary of talking about their needs and lives. It's not right and for those of us just beginning to explore our submissiveness, it's hard to make those other people understand.

I look forward to the day that more of us can be open with our submissiveness and not worry about the wrong perceptions that come about.

morninggirl5 said:

BDSM Kindergarten? That concept appeals to me. It will certainly help me walk into my classroom with a smile on my face tomorrow. (I plan to remain in Kindergarten forever, by the way)

Click to expand...

I was smilimg to myself, mg, when i wrote those words, thinking of you.


Anyone who thinks submissives are weak-willed little clinging vines who don't quite know what they want to be when they grow up has a lot of learning to do. Either that or they need to get the hell offline and learn what skin-to-skin BDSM is all about.

I haven't noticed an anti-sub bias here. Are they any threads you can point me to?

I'm not going to do that in public, WD. That would serve no purpose but to embarass those who may not even realize that's how they're coming across. I'll PM you.
b.

cymbidia said:

[begin irked rant]

...or to endure until one can move into being being a Dom/me.

For some of us, it's just as real, just as vital, just as proud a thing as any of the Dominants feel being Dom/me is - or any of the Switches feel their need is.

I'm getting kinda irked at the sudden intimations of "well, i guess i'm sub until things change for the better and i learn more - and then i can be Dom!" that have begun to creep in here.

I am submissive sexually.
I am a sexually submissive woman.
That's a part of who i am at the core of myself.

I am never going to be a sexually Dominant woman. I don't want to be a Domme. I don't even like to Switch, and -so- i do it badly. It's not comfortable for me, not erotic.

I take pride in being a good submissive. I have honed and polished my skills over many years and i take pride in my abilities in this area. Not everyone is suited to sexual submission, just as not everyone is suited to either of the others. Sexual submission is a thing of who i am at a very basic level, perhaps even a genetic level. It's not a fucking choice or something i got as the booby prize cuz i wasn't good enough to get promoted into Dommehood.

Dominants, Switches, and submissives are all necessary to the balance and flow of healthy BDSM sexality. None is inherently better than the others. There is no fucking "graduation" or natural progression from starting as a lowly, unformed, take-orders-from-any-asshole submissive to the unbounded glory of issuing those orders to lowly cringing know-nothing subs.

Fuck that. That's not what my life, what all my years as a submissive, have been about at all.

One is what s/he is.

[end irked rant]

Click to expand...

What brought this rant on cym? There are very few Dom/mes on this thread, and I am beginning to feel a slight bias here. What gives? Why take offense to someone else's expression of their own opinion? Why rant at all?

Ebony

If there is any bias at all

WriterDom said:

I haven't noticed an anti-sub bias here. Are they any threads you can point me to?

Click to expand...

it is pointed toward the dominants on this thread, truth be known. You don't see me ranting about that do you? Lest we forget, different strokes for different folks.

Ebony

Here we go again.....

Near as I can tell, the rant in question was not aimed at Dom(me)s. Nor was it aimed at Switches. It was aimed at certain ill-informed folks of the "wannabe" persuasion, who may yet prove to be good, decent people. There has been a tendency of late to think in terms of "phases", confusing that with the training that some Dom(me)s have, experiencing the other side as they learn and grow with their Dominance. I think that's the attitude cym was going off on.

Different strengths, both worthy of respect, but submission is not perforce a stepping-stone to dominance; we're not some secret society with ranks and titles, you don't "graduate" from sub to Switch, thence to Dom(me). Who and what you are is inside you, part of you. It just may take some time to find out what that is, but the hierarchy thing just isn't there in the sense of getting a promotion while others are held back.

I have not knowingly offered any bias toward or against anyone. If you feel i've offended you in that way, please point my errors out to me, here or in private. I think i usually choose my words very carefully, and have done so for a long time.

Additionally, throughout this thread (and in this forum) i try very hard to be careful to choose words to indicate the depth of my feelings about being fully submissive. To me, my submssion is not and will never be only the first stop on the BDSM Express - and i am taken aback at anyone who implies that being fully submissive is *anything* but as honorable and needful a way of being as are either of the others.

I didn't think my simple little bit of frustration would offend anyone; if anything i expected it to generate a little bit of discussion on what it is to be fully sub as opposed to being switch or being Dom/me. Excuse my gall in posting on this to begin with, then. I was obviously incorrect in my assumptions. One may not, it seems, speak out on this subject here, or at least i may not. Maybe i may not in this way? Which? In any case, shall i delete this horrible thread now or later?

Then why the need ..

SpectreT said:

Here we go again.....

Near as I can tell, the rant in question was not aimed at Dom(me)s. Nor was it aimed at Switches. It was aimed at certain ill-informed folks of the "wannabe" persuasion, who may yet prove to be good, decent people. There has been a tendency of late to think in terms of "phases", confusing that with the training that some Dom(me)s have, experiencing the other side as they learn and grow with their Dominance. I think that's the attitude cym was going off on.

Different strengths, both worthy of respect, but submission is not perforce a stepping-stone to dominance; we're not some secret society with ranks and titles, you don't "graduate" from sub to Switch, thence to Dom(me). Who and what you are is inside you, part of you. It just may take some time to find out what that is, but the hierarchy thing just isn't there in the sense of getting a promotion while others are held back.

Click to expand...

to defend oneself when anyone utters a different opinion?

I still say that there is a bias here. and that is my opinion.
Also, I did not say that it was aimed at anyone, I was stating MY opinion.

Ebony

It was not simple, cym

cymbidia said:

I have not knowingly offered any bias toward or against anyone. If you feel i've offended you in that way, please point my errors out to me, here or in private. I think i usually choose my words very carefully, and have done so for a long time.

Additionally, throughout this thread (and in this forum) i try very hard to be careful to choose words to indicate the depth of my feelings about being fully submissive. To me, my submssion is not and will never be only the first stop on the BDSM Express - and i am taken aback at anyone who implies that being fully submissive is *anything* but as honorable and needful a way of being as are either of the others.

I didn't think my simple little bit of frustration would offend anyone; if anything i expected it to generate a little bit of discussion on what it is to be fully sub as opposed to being switch or being Dom/me. Excuse my gall in posting on this to begin with, then. I was obviously incorrect in my assumptions. One may not, it seems, speak out on this subject here, or at least i may not. Maybe i may not in this way? Which? In any case, shall i delete this horrible thread now or later?

Click to expand...

It was a rant, by your own admission. A rant connotes a bit of anger. I am, then entitled to respond in kind, if I see fit to do so. But I will stop short of excusing my own "gall" (your word, not mine). I am entitled to respond, which I did. As for deleting the thread, do what you want. You wanted to spark discussion, and you have. Be careful what you wish for.

Ebony