The Online Predator

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The following is a composite profile of an Online Predator. This profile was compiled by a number of submissive women for the use of submissive women. It is written from the perspective of a submissive female whose nature requires her to respond to a dominant male.

The Online Predator


1) Definition:

The Online Predator is one who uses the mechanisms of cyber space to hunt human beings with the intent to exploit, rob, plunder and pillage their body,mind, heart and soul.

2) Characteristics of a Predator:

1. Liar: ( Self explanatory )
2. Deceiver: His self situation is presented as other than what it is.
3. Betrayer: He is likely to break trust.
4. Insecure: He is worried that others will be faithless.
5. Inconsistent: He will say one thing while doing another.
6. Lacking Honor: Usually while protesting that he has honor.
7. Lack of Respect: He will tend to denigrate others.
8. Transient: He is unlikely to have many long term friends.
9. Manipulator: He calculates and contrives for his own benefit to the detriment of his partner.
10. Secretive: He will tend to cloak himself and his activities.
11. Charming: If he could not steal your breath away, he would not be a successful hunter.
12. Selective: He will pick victims carefully, looking for weaknesses and filling those voids completely.
13. Chameleon: He will appear to fit any need perfectly and adapt to fill any desire.
14. Lacking in Self Control: Although at times, he may have extraordinary self control and discipline.

A predator probably exhibits these characteristics in all aspects of his life. It may be that the only place the predator seems to have honor and value Truth is in the Relationship he is developing with his victim. When developing a new relationship, a submissive should make a conscious effort to observe her partnerâs interaction with others, not just how he interacts with her. The predator may well reveal his true self through his interactions.
But, the submissive may only see this revelation if she is committed to taking every precaution for her own safety.

3) Predator Warning Signals:

While any of these phrases or actions may be acceptable in a given context, pay close attention when seeing or hearing them. Phrases:
1. Do not tell .
2. ( ) is crazy ! ( or psycho, sick, a liar, or out to get me )
3. It would be best if you no longer spoke to .
4. I do not need to defend myself against lies.
5. They are just jealous ( of me, of us, of what we have, that you have me ).

Actions:

1. May seldom be in the D/s chat rooms. Operates from other areas or private rooms.
2. Has personal information which is incomplete or not verifiable.
3. Becomes defensive or angry when questioned.
4. Questions the sincerity of the submissive when questioned.
5. He will usually discourage or forbid the practice of reference checks.
6. He will usually discourage or forbid the use of Safe Calls.

4) The Submissives Personal Warning Signals:

These are items that a submissive should pay attention to if she is saying them to herself or hearing them from others.
1. I feel he is just too good to be true.
2. You are hearing consistent warnings from more that one person.
3. Your instincts are whispering something is not right about this person.

5) Summary:

The final best defense any submissive has against an Online Predator is her own common sense and judgment. The submissive should always remember that desires, needs, and the heat of the moment can combine to drown that judgment. Always take a moment to step back, take a deep breath and look at a
potential partner with common sense and not with passion


What is a "Red Flag"?

A "Red Flag" is any indication that you should steer clear of a particular person, either Dom/me or sub. These can pop up at any time, though most often in the beginning of a potential relationship. They can be obvious or they can be subtle.


Some common examples might be:

1) Inappropriate questions or comments during the initial conversations, such as do you want to play? or what are you wearing? or what do you look like? or asking for your phone number immediately, etc. Such questions have nothing at
all to do with D/s, but rather indicate the person is looking for cyber or phone sex.

2) Moving too quickly: if the prospective Dom/me or sub seems to be in a hurry to begin a relationship, or to advance it faster than seems reasonable or comfortable for you. Like if they want to meet you within the first 10 minutes online. Trust is the cornerstone. and cannot be rushed. Clearly, there is no arbitrary time frame, but most long-lasting relationships take
several weeks if not months to build before actual contact.

3) Inappropriate attitude: "bow down and worship me" those who act as if every submissive must obey every so-called Dom, and begin giving or obeying orders from the word go. Or those who have the idea that each and every Tom, Dick, and Harry must be addressed as Sir, whether they know them or not. Many
subs in the chat rooms do this, but respect is worth little if it is so
lightly given. Both of these attitudes and practices show a poor
understanding of the true dynamics of Dominance and submission.

4) Safety violations: reluctance to have a safeword or other safety precautions in place, either during the first meeting or later. Run.

5) Lack of communication: if your potential partner is reluctant to discuss something with you, pay attention. Likewise, and equally serious, if you are told directly or indirectly, that you may not discuss something with others,or may not talk to someone else, or may not go to a particular area, be careful. Trying to "gag" someone is a sign that something is wrong.

6) A persistent bad reputation: or unwillingness to give references. This can be tricky if the person you are talking to is new online, but it is still a red flag. Or perhaps a yellow one.

7) Trashing ex-partners. When someone is constantly talking about their ex publicly in the chat rooms and on bb's, i.e., trying to ruin their rep, try to keep in mind that you might be their "ex" someday and be subjected to such treatment if things do not go the way they want. This is something that both
Dom/mes and subs are frequently guilty of. Warning others of potential danger from an ex-partner is obviously a different case.

8) Frequent inconsistencies. If someone often makes contradictory statements from one day to the next, like Mon. tells you s/he has no children, then on Fri., mentions his/her son's birthday or something. If a person often seems to have a lot of trouble remembering what they have said to you from one day to the next, it could be that they are telling a lot of people a lot of different things. Just in general, I would encourage anyone to really try to get to know someone before making a final judgment on their character.However, caution and common sense should always rule. If you have doubts, do not give out personal information. You can still talk to this person, but be
careful.

And please, trust that GUT INSTINCT.
 
Could any of us be a predator? Hmmm...I don't know. I provide references, if that helps. You should be able to call the person when you want to( within reason), They should provide an accurate picture. Christ, you should always meet in a public place, and you should probably know their full name before you meet them.
 
This is a GREAT list!!!

Can we expose online predators here? *weg*
I'm sure a few of us know at least one that pretty much fits this profile to a T!
 
These are all very good points to keep in mind if you are a submissive using the internet to explore or find a Dominant.

Many of these points are relevant to non BDSM relationships as well.

The thread's intent is not to alarm, but advise. Caution is always best and someone whom you may be able to trust, will understand and expect caution.
 
Hmmm. I don't know. I welcome any kind of warning about predators in this lifestyle, but it seems to me to be a bit too over the edge. I'd say a predator is anyone trying to make you do something you ought not to do. And I definitely agree with the concept of trusting your instincts, except in cases where one's instincts might not be trustworthy due to years of abuse.
 
lancemanyon said:
Hmmm. I don't know. I welcome any kind of warning about predators in this lifestyle, but it seems to me to be a bit too over the edge. I'd say a predator is anyone trying to make you do something you ought not to do. And I definitely agree with the concept of trusting your instincts, except in cases where one's instincts might not be trustworthy due to years of abuse.

What about the list seems "over the edge"? i think that it contains common-sense items that need to be reviewed from time to time-especially for anyone new to D/s. Second question is who decides what constitutes "something you ought not to do"?

lass
 
It's mostly crap, it always was.

New proof. Even Lance M, valiant crusader against predation finds it a bit much, "over the edge."

My two cents, my opinion, aberrant and idiosyncratic, as usual.

J.

{Miss T, wasn't this discussed before?}
 
Lassarina said,
"What about the list seems "over the edge"? "

The definition 1) and the list of characteristics under 2).

Ask yourself, Lass, if the list is of use to you, or just others?

How is the piece harmful and dangerous ?

"trust that GUT INSTINCT"

Many of Ted Bundy's victims did just that. Rather, if you want to protect against the 1/1000 psychos, follow procedure, not your gut or heart: Don't get alone with strangers (car, apt), esp. if you're a woman; have a verified name and address, and have a friend know that name etc. and where a meeting is to occur and for how long before the cops are called. That's it, about 40 words. And none of this has to do especially with bdsm, but should be known by every girl of 14 or older.
 
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Pure said:
It's mostly crap, it always was.

New proof. Even Lance M, valiant crusader against predation finds it a bit much, "over the edge."

My two cents, my opinion, aberrant and idiosyncratic, as usual.

J.

{Miss T, wasn't this discussed before?}

Yep, and with a new crowd, it seems it is time to discuss it again. :)

Regardless of how anyone feels about the POV of the article, getting people to think about safety and common sense is always a good thing.

As for Bundy, the article doesn't say, "ONLY use your gut instincts"

I think that what it should say is , "When you have utilized all the safety precautions and your gut still tells you it isn't right, it ain't right!"

:)
 
granted, I am terribly new to online as well as D/s but I find this list extremely valuable~~~ EXTREMELY!
the realm of Domination & submission is very powerful and when it speaks to you, you are entralled.. at least I was!!!
I did not do anything I 'ought not to do' and I did 'trust my gut' but I was also naive and therefore vulnerable..

I am not a person that prejudges anyone~~ I believe people to speak truthfully and trust them until that trust is betrayed....

the trust this predator gained from me was true, when I noticed discrepancies & contradictions I questioned his integrity... I came here.. found more 'predatory behaviour' .. and now know he is a pretty poor individual and one to be wary of, imo

I see nothing in this list that is over the top~~ I would encourage everyone in an online relationship whether D/s or not, to read this... and reread it

they are out there.. Online Predators ... the trust he gained from me, and perhaps you, he used for his own malicious intent and not for mutual growth & fulfillment

Had I had read this list in the beginning maybe I wouldn't have been as trusting~~ I cannot say.. he was/IS very very very good at what he did & said!!!

"...It may be that the only place the predator seems to have honor and value Truth is in the Relationship he is developing with his victim.... " I believe this is true of the predator BI-Dom/Switch I'm speaking of and I have no doubt he will and is continuing to prey on men/women for his own sick personal gain
 
I would like to say thank you!!

there are so many predators out there and any advice such as this is good and very needed.. we as subs cant be too careful.. trust is a very important thing in a Master/slave relationship and it shouldnt be treated lightly.
 
I wish i would have seen this list ages ago...like when i first discovered my subbie side or even when i first came home to roost in this forum. I have met many people from all walks of life...but i can honestly say this..i have only met 2 people (on-line) who exhibit these warning signals...and my gut went into overdrive trying to warn me away. This is an invaluable piece for newbies. Thank You for putting it where it can be found!!!

PET:rose:
 
The internet like any other place where you are going to meet people is a place where you will find any kind of person. Honest people and dishonest people. This list should not be taken as an example of how bad the internet is to meet people, but more as a guideline on how to distinguish between those that have a sincere intention and those that have less honourable motivation.

One of the most important advices we can give to newcomers be it sub, switch or dom is to take your time. Inform yourself before entering into anything as committed as a relationship. Read, we have a great library with some great information kept very up to date; use it to your own advantage. On literotica you will find many with years and years of experience and many that have gone through the same ordeals. Use it to your own advantage, talk with and ask people, read through the postings. Always be on your guard just as if you would be in ‘real life’.

Just imaging giving yourself totally to a complete stranger you have just met in a bar. Common sense would go against it, so use the same common sense online. The internet can be great for meeting people and for gaining knowledge but it can also be used by predators to find inexperienced hopeful prey.

This is not only advice for the sub or switch but also for the Dom. A couple of months ago in the Netherlands (I live there, this is why I am using it as an example), there where inexplicable murders, 4 males where murdered. By now we know that all four victims met their assailant on the internet. So be careful, follow the guidelines that have been set out. By using your own common sense you will be protect your feelings and have a much better change at finding what you actually want, a partner that fulfils your needs.

Francisco.
 
MissTaken said:
... These are all very good points to keep in mind if you are a submissive using the internet to explore or find a Dominant ...
Let's make sure the door swings both ways on this one. Judging by comments in the other predator thread, a few "submissives" out there bear watching as well.

i do understand the gist of the thread overall. You need to think with your head, not with your heart, regardless of which end of the spectrum you reside.

BTW, gentelmen, that's the head on your shoulders, not hanging between your legs. http://www.1st-vets.org/forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif
 
Ah....that was a nice list and all, but if someone is gonna take the time to write out all of that stuff down they could have made it more useful. But a good reminder, so worth the read....

Now for some Mr Blonde opinions....

In my mind, there are four different parts of a "friendly" conversation....

1. small talk
2. fact disclosure
3. opinions
4. personal feelings

The best way to catch the "wackos" is to pay careful attention to category #3. Regardless of what opinions are being expressed, pay careful attention to:
  • strong opinions that are left unsubstantiated
  • inconsistent opinions that aren't accompanied by a succinct explanation
  • inability or unwillingness to express opinions on commonplace issues

The second best way to identify the unstable people is to watch their interaction with others. Do they have friends? Do they act too friendly or too hostile towards strangers? Are there descriptions of others a realistic mix of friendly, neutral and hostile feelings?

The third and last method is to get good at reading the "signs" that someone is lying. I am sure there are summaries floating around the internet. Watch the breathing, the pace of words, the rising or falling tones, etc. Everyone lies from time to time, but when you see someone lying on a critical issue you need to recognize what is happening and protect yourself accordingly.

In summary, when dealing with new people or even familiar people under difficult circumstances, spend one minute per fifteen minutes of conversation reviewing what was said. Don't analyze things to death and be willing to forgive small peccadillos. But when things appear to be seriously awry....yes, yes, yes, trust your gut and have the strength to walk away.
 
Come on ladies

are ya'll that dumb?

Don't you have any sense of self-preservation? Any mother wit, women's intuition?
 
I used to say the same thing, then I realized how without all those things some people simply are or allow themseleves to be, not usually in the name of "submission" but in the name of "being in love."

I blame the fact that a lot of women are already committed to a state of "submission" before they've gotten off the plane, they are already completely open and vulnerable and willing to do anything for someone they have never actually met.

I find this somewhat problematic.
 
Netzach said:
I find this somewhat problematic.

I find it so too, mainly cause I think that women need to step up to the plate and look out for themselves. Sub or Domme, women have to take responsibility for their lives, cause we only get one set of parents, the rest of the world is not gonna be our parents.

Make choices, I say.
 
Ebonyfire said:
I find it so too, mainly cause I think that women need to step up to the plate and look out for themselves. Sub or Domme, women have to take responsibility for their lives, cause we only get one set of parents, the rest of the world is not gonna be our parents.

Make choices, I say.

I think this goes without saying, Eb... But it seems to me that the door swings both ways and with all genders... There are FemDommes out there that are just as predatory as MaleDommes and there are male submissives that are just as predatory and female ones.

You are right a little bit of common sense goes a long way with who ever you are and whom ever you are meeting, either on-line or in RL.
 
My opinion is that the list is partly commonsense and partly crap dressed up in a scaremongering fashion.

I did attempt a saner version at one time, though it lacked the
steamy sham drama and anti-male perspective.

I agree with Eb and Francisco's postings. One wonders at the general context in which women are told "watch out for charming liars and deceivers who will make you their prey." I mean 'duh.'

OTOH, if the fellow is really so damn clever, are the listed 'signs' and 'red flags' going to help? Ever read the story of Ted Bundy?

The internet can lead to meeting strangers; there are marriages that have resulted. there are one night stands and sometimes 'predations'--whatever the hell that's supposed to be. just as happens through dating services, meetings at the local 'watering hole', and chance meetings at the laudromat.

The media have been looking for internet related deaths for ten years now and indeed there have been handful on each continent.

To keep it in perspective, I'd bet your chances on dying on your 1/2 hr.commute to work in a large city, and certainly your chances of dying while driving to your favorite vacation spot on a 'long weekend' are greater that dying at the hands of an internet predator.

J.
 
Mr. B said,


1. small talk
2. fact disclosure
3. opinions
4. personal feelings

The best way to catch the "wackos" is to pay careful attention to category #3. Regardless of what opinions are being expressed, pay careful attention to:

strong opinions that are left unsubstantiated
inconsistent opinions that aren't accompanied by a succinct explanation
inability or unwillingness to express opinions on commonplace issues


The second best way to identify the unstable people is to watch their interaction with others. Do they have friends? Do they act too friendly or too hostile towards strangers? Are there descriptions of others a realistic mix of friendly, neutral and hostile feelings?

The third and last method is to get good at reading the "signs" that someone is lying. I am sure there are summaries floating around the internet. Watch the breathing, the pace of words, the rising or falling tones, etc. Everyone lies from time to time, but when you see someone lying on a critical issue you need to recognize what is happening and protect yourself accordingly.


====
Mr. B unfortunately defines the problem as 'catching wackos' or 'identifying unstable people' or telling if someone is lying. Three very different problems.

Just to comment on the 'wacko' identification part, and the advice to focus on opinions, with all due respect and despite mr b's obvious intelligence, the advice sounds like crap. and by the way is not substantiated.

purely as a matter of opinion, I'd say that to protect youself from 'wackos', concentrate on learning various verified facts about strangers, like employment, marital history, criminal history and so on: Or, recognize that the person is concealing that sort of thing.

Mr Blonde's criteria, if applied to the opinions expressed in this forum, regarding consistency, and 'succinct explanation', we're almost all wackos, as are the regulars at the local bar.

Ooops, I fear this is no longer succinct and not well substantiated.
Damnit I'm outed.

J.
"wacko"
 
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Pure said:
... we're almost all wackos, as are the regulars at the local bar ...
i'd personally rather not be lumped in with the denziens of a meat market, but if required ... oh Hell no.

i may have three 6's on the back of my head, but i sure as hell ain't wearing the mark of any devil, mental nor physical.

i'll make, live, and die in a hell of my own device.
 
There are

Manipulators so skilled, talkers so good, and people so friggin crazy that nobody can spot them. Or almost nobody. People who are not head over nuts over the attractive smooth talker, people who are still sober in the bar, people who read between lines and recall the adage "if something sounds too good to be true it usually is" are less likely to be victimized, though there's no failsafe method.

Hooking up is an adult game, it will have its casualties.

The best possible defense, like making your weekend getaway or commute, is to PAY ATTENTION. There are no guarantees, of course, but it's the best tool in one's arsenal.

Unsubstantiated or no, I think Mr. B has a good breakdown of the intuitive processes I think I'm using when I weigh someone's veracity and consistency. Basically, if I sat down and thought, ok, what's the actual process by which my bullshit detector works, he's hit a few key features.
 
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