Love Sonnets!

Sonnets?! Okay, okay, don't get spooked. Afterall, we're all just a bunch of poets, right? We're all in the same boat, right? (Well, okay, it's a big boat...).

I was trying to think of a poetry challenge and it's been brewing in the back of my mind for days now, so here we go.

(SPRING + COURTING)/ SONNET = LOVE POEM!

The spring season is finally upon us (That's right, all of us) - it's a time of renewal, a time of rebirth, and traditionally, a time of courting. That's right, plebians, love is in the air. What what better way to express that miserable, that beautiful, that treacherous, that wonderful feeling that we have for one another, but with an English Sonnet!

(B-buh-butt, I don't know crap about sonnet form. Don't you have to have a Lit degree or something to get a license to use one of those?) Heck no, wranglers!

In fact, just a few months ago, right here on the Poetry Ranch, our own UP identified and gave a concise (and long-winded) account of the sonnet form. (The following is an excerpt).

(Originally posted by Unmasked Poet - 1-20-2002 -
ENGLISH (SHAKESPEARIAN) SONNET
Gradually the Italian sonnet pattern was changed and since Shakespeare attained fame for the greatest poems of this modified type his name has often been given to the English form. Instead of an octave and a sestet, a Shakespearian sonnet has three quatrains (4 line stanza) a.b.a.b. . c.d.c.d. . .e.f.e.f. and a rhymed couplet. g.g.

Sonnet LXV
(a) Since brass, nor stone, nor earth, nor boundless sea
(b) But sad mortality o’er-sways their power,
(a) How with this rage shall beauty hold a plea,
(b) Whose action is no stronger than a flower?
(c )how shall summer’s honey breath hold out,
(d) Against the wreckful siege of battering days,
(c) When rocks impregnable are not so stout,
(d) Nor gates of steel so strong, but Time decays?
(e) O fearful meditation! Where alack,
(f )Shall Time’s best jewel from Times chest lie hid?
(e) Or what strong hand can hold his swift foot back?
(f) Or who his spoil of beauty can forbid?
(g) O, none unless this miracle have might,
(g)That in black ink my love may still shine bright.
...
It had no set structure originally and it was only after it's adoption by the English that defined the Italian Sonnet to be of Iambic pentameter...

Click to expand...

Now, in that original thread Poetry Bootcamp, UP, HomarPindar and other Lit poets put out a lot of other pertinent information on sonnets and their form. There is also a great little gambit on Iambic Pentameter by UP as well. (The following is an excerpt).

Originally posted by Unmasked Poet - 1-22-1001 -
An Iamb is a two-syllable Foot with the stress placed on the 2nd syllable, as in "New York." Notice how the second syllable is stressed more than the first? You can find how words are accented in any dictionary, but it really shouldn't be necessary to go to such trouble; just say them out loud and listen. Often context determines which word or syllable is stressed in a foot, and you need to be aware of how your context might alter the stress in a particular foot. For example, in the sentence "I like your car," car would normally be stressed more than your. However, in "What do you mean your car?" the stress would be placed on your.

A Pentameter is a line of poetry constructed of 5 Feet, or units of rhythm. An Iambic Pentameter then is a line consisting of 5 Iambs, or two syllable Feet with the stress falling on the 2nd syllable of each foot.

Or you might say it is a 10-syllable line with the stresses beginning on the 2nd syllable and falling on every other syllable thereafter.

Here's an example, the first line of a sonnet by Edmund Spenser:
One day I wrote her name upon the strand,

Read this line aloud, and hopefully the rhythm will be apparent to you.

Click to expand...

See, isn't that clear? Well, if you're like me, you might like the following example:

A line of imabic pentameter:
ta-DUH ta-DUH ta-DUH ta-DUH ta-DUH

And remember that the rhyming scheme of the twelve lines (3 quatrains and a couplet) looks like this:

abab cdcd efef gg

Okay, now then...aside from all this high-falutin' professor-speak, remember that neither your subject or dialect needs to be like high-minded, just follow the form and contrive a poem from one lover to "the apple of their eye." Now, that's not a requirement for this challenge, you could express yourself in the most delicate flower of reason. Hmmm...yes, quite.

But it must be a love poem.

Could be you to your lover OR a farmboy to his favorite sheep. Make it up or find it deep in your heart. It's spring! Let it go!

Have fun with it and let's feel the LOVE!


- Judo

CoMmItTeD

How do you guys feel about this challenge? I'm planning on doing something. Right now, I'm just searching for the proper twisted approach.

How 'bout you?


- Judo

I'm with you, baby. I need something to do during class anyway.

hmm, self love sonnets?

I am doing additional research at this page.
http://www.sonnets.org/index.htm

It's coming

I'm workin' on it, JUDO. I just haven't come up with anything I'm happy with yet. Hold on-- it's coming!

It came!

Two Hearts' Tomorrows

by Judo ©

A hunting night drifts steady through damp hour
As twinkling signals light the paths unseen,
Two lovers cruise a house of Ambrose' power
Unknown to them a heart each fitted keen.

A maid quite tall with curly hair, quick laugh -
No dance finds her while juke strains beat the air.
Beside the girl rocks leather bound distaff
Who eyes her mouth and bids her feet to dare.

Around small room they rode sweet notes' release
As gently rose the song of spring in fall.
A question burned within their hearts' new lease -
Would all tomorrows answer with a call?

The time had flown as hands tight clasped in fun,
But with adieu, two hearts now beat as one.


(This is the story of the night I met my lover.)

Now Posted!

Two Hearts' Tomorrows

Posted under 'erotic' rather than 'non-erotic' because it's romantic and with the stories that's where they go, so...


- Judo

Love's Demise

Unh . . . unh . . . grunt . . . moan . . . ahhh! OK, it came. This is a bitter love sonnet:


LOVE'S DEMISE

Since you have lost all interest in me
The world tastes flat and stale, and I run dry
Clutching at all the wreckage of our debris
I stare out my window, and wonder why

You say you love me still, with ice-cold hands
Where shortly before there raged a wild fire
For now be careful where you place your brands
Lest you become entangled in the mire

It was you who started this, not I
And now it seems that you are ending it
You jerked my heart-strings out before my eyes
And then you tried to make me bite the bit

Still I'm thankful for those multi-colored days
Even though my world has since gone back to grey

-- April 25, 2002

Bumpity-bump!

Okay, I'm calling in the chits. I know that KM is attempting to concentrate on finals, so she has an excuse (for now), but SP, you've got a lil' time on your hands. How's that sonnet coming, anyhow?

Spring is about half way done (or more), so we only have a few weeks left to get lovesick with iambic pentameter.

Speaking of which, thanks RW for your lovely "Demise." I'll be back soon with commentary on it.

In the meantime, all poets who wish to practice an innate poetic form that's been around for a few centuries, get your Sonnets here! Fresh Son-nets!


- Judo

My Entry

With apologies to the great bard, I present my

Ode to Phone Sex

When my love bid me call him on the phone,
I nod and thrill within at my assent.
And think me lucky not to be alone,
But here--abed--for his desire’s intent.
So sweetly do his tender words carress
And through his willing hand my love receive,
Upon my skin his warmest thoughts impress
All that his heart give my hand to perceive.
Thus through me is my lover so made real
And through him my sensations so known true,
O look how this new age bears ageless passion’s seal--
Through brave technology we timeless love pursue.
And so the phone is instrument of our delight
That doth join love’s desire on this modern night.

I hope that bawdy Bill would laugh and not roll groaning in his grave!

CRIT: Ang's sonnet

A -

Like the sonnet. Perfect subject for a sonnet. So many of us stay...in touch this way.

My fav lines:

And through his willing hand my love receive,
Upon my skin his warmest thoughts impress

Troubles:

The opening line:

When my love bid me call him on the phone.

That "big me call him" Yoda-esque type grammar often shows up when I try to force a rhyme. And the meter of the line doesn't lay so well for me.

It's meter seems to be intended like this (meter boldened):

When my love bid me call him on the phone

I have a difficult time believeing that the words "my" and "on" are important enough to be accented. I think of the words "When" and "love" as having more importance, so perhaps a little word at the beginning of the sentence would help.

'Tis when my lover asks for calls by phone

You have a good line in:

And through his willing hand my love receive

But the meaning seems to ring truer by exchanging two words:

And through my willing hand his love receive

(I like that).

Also, the same issue with the line:

That all his heart give my hand to percieve.

Yes, the right amount of syllables, but the accent feels wrong. It feels like the important words are "All, heart, hand, percieve" yet "my" and "to" are to receive accent.

How about:

His heart's intent my touch will surely leave.

The next line:

Thus through me is my lover so made real.

Small switches and you have instead:

Yet thus through me my lover's made so real.

You follow that with another "through" in the next sentence. How about instead:

As he calls my sensations out so true

Here, you get a little carried away. The next lines have six accents:

O look how this new age bears ageless passion's seal--

Just lose the "O look":

How this New Age bears ageless passion's seal--

(A lovely line, by the way!)

And the same problem in the next line (six accents):

Through brave technology we timeless love pursue

lose "timless" (you just had "ageless" anyway):

Through brave technology we love pursue


And again, the same six:

And so the phone is instrument of our delight

Lose "And so" and change "of" to "to":

The phone is instrument to our delight

And on the last line, lose "this":

And doth join love's desire on modern night.


All that, and your sonnet looks like this:

'Tis when my lover asks for calls by phone
I nod and thrill within at my assent.
And think me lucky not to be alone,
But here - adbed - for his desire's intent.

So sweetly do his tender words caress
And through my willing hand his love receive,
Upon my skin his warmest thoughts impress
His heart's intent my touch will surely leave.

Yet thus through me, my lover's made so real
As he calls my sensations out so true.
How this New Age bears ageless Passion's seal--
Through brave technology we love pursue.

The phone is instrument to our delight
And doth join love's desire on modern night.

OMG!!! Judo's so demanding!!!!!!

I've been thinking for a week to submit my own sonnet to this challenge, but now I don't know... I'm affraid to look bad in front of all of you...

Don't be afraid of the big bad Judo!

Don't let Judo throw you, Lauren-- she's really a pussycat! Go for it.

Now That's A Review!

Thank you Judo, for putting the time into your careful read and explanation. I knew I had the number of syllables right, but some of the stressors wrong. I am going to look at your comments carefully and make changes. The lines:

So sweetly do his tender words carress
And through his willing hand my love receive,
Upon my skin his warmest thoughts impress

are meant to set up the comparison of each of us er responding to the other, so to make your suggested change would take that away. They may be another way around that--I need to think it through.

Going to think about your other suggestions now. And by the way what a great idea for a challenge. I actually wrote another sonnet--about poetic form--that i enjoyed doing, too. Thanks again!

Lauren.Hynde said:

OMG!!! Judo's so demanding!!!!!!

I've been thinking for a week to submit my own sonnet to this challenge, but now I don't know... I'm afraid to look bad in front of all of you...

Click to expand...

Darling L, that wasn't demanding, that was suggesting. Fortunately, the poet took it as it was meant. Ang is taking some suggs and leaving the ones she doesn't agree with.

We are not here to get something right the first time we write it, we are here to improve and learn; hence – the challenge!

Please write a sonnet, L. They're really a lot of fun. If you like puzzles, a sonnet is a grand one.


- Judo

PS - Hmmm...or is it that you like demanding? Maybe a little spanking is in order?

Post Those Sonnets!

Judo is a sweetheart! I truely am flattered that she put the time into such a careful critique of my sonnet. I write and edit for a living, and I do know the difference between constructive criticism (intended to help the writer improve her work) and criticizing. Judo's comments were the former, not the latter. They were also faithful to the points that Karmadog and others have raised on another thread regarding helpful critiques v. blind praise. It is hard to accept public critiquing--even the most construcitive kind--but if we are willing to put poems out there for others to see, we have to take what goes with it. Especially when one is getting alot of praise, it's good to take risks--good for soul growth, good for poetry!

Besides, Judo paid me the greated complement of all when she called me a poet (see above) !!!!

So come on everybody--post those babies!

she who fights and runs away, may live to fight another day, but that's not for me!!!

JUDO said:

Please write a sonnet, L. They're really a lot of fun. If you like puzzles, a sonnet is a grand one.
...
PS - Hmmm...or is it that you like demanding? Maybe a little spanking is in order?

Click to expand...

Oh, I was never one to say no to a challenge, I'm not going to start now! You just wait and see...

Arrg

I was just going to pretend I didn't read this thread!

This was hard. I'm not into contriving poems, and now I'm a little gun shy on rhymes since it's very tricky not to sound contrived when forcing a rhyme.

And trying to take this apart and refit it into Iambic Pentameter make it sound even more clumsy, so here goes the original version:

LEMON SONNET

Could you even love me now? I wonder whether
You ever really loved me in the past
I see my parents, still together
And still I wonder what makes love last

The ice in your heart will not melt
You change your number when I call
It seems the only way with which I could be dealt
Is not to be dealt with at all

I wonder what kind of person I’ve changed into
I try and step outside myself and see
I try and think of not "I" but "you"
And what you see when you look at me

And when another says that my love they’ve got
What will they love in me that you did not?

Lemon Sonnet

Hi, Star!

Glad you decided to join in the fun... My own sonnet is ready to be posted, but seeing you're here, I'll just postpone it for a while and give some breathing room to "Lemon Sonnet"...

And now, for a proper critique:

First of all, I'm not going to comment on the form. Judo set those rules, and seeing I broke them myself, I can't really tell you it's OK to do it.

(But now that she's not listening, let me tell you: hey, what the hell, we're not in the 16th century anymore, and modern poetry is all about subverting the rules!)

LEMON SONNET

Good title... lemon sorbet is my favourite, so this makes my mouth water for the poem to come

Could you even love me now? I wonder whether
You ever really loved me in the past
I see my parents, still together
And still I wonder what makes love last

I like this opening quatrain. The first two verses have a really sour touch to them (which I adore) and make a great start to a sonnet, and now we know it won't have a happy end. Good! Not so sure about the 3rd and 4th verses, though. I'm a little distracted by the repetition of "just" and I know I wouldn't want to drag my parents into a sour love poem, but if it works for you...

The ice in your heart will not melt
You change your number when I call
It seems the only way with which I could be dealt
Is not to be dealt with at all

Apparently this psycho-b***h did everything but get a restraining order on you... Very well put. You might want to revise on the verb tenses, though: I'm definitely no expert, but seeing you keep using the present tense, that "could" on the 3rd verse could very well become a "can". (But you speak the language, not me, so if I'm being nonsensical, please ignore...)

I wonder what kind of person I’ve changed into
I try and step outside myself and see
I try and think of not "I" but "you"
And what you see when you look at me

I just love this one. There's the little twist: maybe it wasn't the psycho-b***h's fault, you were the one that changed. Placing yourself in her shoes, chicks dig that...

And when another says that my love they’ve got
What will they love in me that you did not?

Conclusion: You know you made a mistake, you lost her, and now you're scarred. Life sucks. You don't... Great job!

As far as I'm concerned, I'm giving you two thumbs up for this one!

CRIT: Lemon Sonnet

Well...

You do have three quatrains and a couplet.
You do have the ABAB CDCD EFEF GG rhyming scheme.

But...

The meter...
In order for the meter to be iambic pentameter it must have ten syllables, no more/no less and each foot (the iambs) must have the accent in the second syllable - as in pronouncing New York.

Only your final line is iambic pentameter.

1st line - 12 syllables
2nd line - 10 syllables (but no iambs)
3rd line - 9 syllables
4th line - 9 syllables

5th line - 8 syllables
6th line - 8 syllables
7th line - 12 syllables
8th line - 8 syllables

9th line - 12 syllables
10th line - 10 syllables
11th line - 9 syllables
12th line - 9 syllables

13th line - 11 syllables
14th line - iambic pentameter (yeh!)

---------------------------------------------------
LEMON SONNET

Could you even love me now? I wonder whether
You ever really loved me in the past
I see my parents, still together
And still I wonder what makes love last

The ice in your heart will not melt
You change your number when I call
It seems the only way with which I could be dealt
Is not to be dealt with at all

I wonder what kind of person I’ve changed into
I try and step outside myself and see
I try and think of not "I" but "you"
And what you see when you look at me

And when another says that my love they’ve got
What will they love in me that you did not?
---------------------------------------------------
Last Line
Notice in your last line how the words flow and the accented words contain the line's important words:

What will they love in me that you did not?

will love me you not?

---------------------------------------------------
Fixin' it
All of my sonnets have started out like the one you have here, then I go "fix" it.

How?

Well, usually I have an idea for each of the quatrains if not the lines that I wish to convey as I write it. Yours seem to have this, too. As such, this shouldn't bee to difficult to fix.

1st two Lines - 1st Quatrain
In your first two lines, you seem to be asking the question of a former lover who has left you if they love you now or ever did.

Could you even love me now? I wonder whether
You ever really loved me in the past

These two lines must be fixed together because you start one thought on the first line and continue.

Hard pronounced words like "Could" often feel accented even when they aren't. It's best to look for words that start with a vowel or little words to start lines:

Rearranging and paraphrasing what you have:

I wonder could you love me even now

Or ever really loved me in the past?


---------------------------------------------------
2nd two lines - 1st Quatrain

Again, the second two lines convey one thought and must fixed together.

I see my parents, still together
And still I wonder what makes love last

Now your third line needs to rhyme with "now" and convey what you see in them.

I see the love my parent's share somehow

You've just used "still" in the previous sentence and "wondered" two lines ago, so let's lose those,
but ask the question.

And yet I truly ask what makes love last?

---------------------------------------------------
1st two lines - 2nd quatrain

The ice in your heart will not melt
You change your number when I call

Both of these lines are short, so we need to add and make certain the accents are in the right place.

The ice within your heart I cannot melt.

You change your number every time I call.

2nd two lines - 2nd Quatrain

It seems the only way with which I could be dealt
Is not to be dealt with at all

These two convey one thought, but must meet the rhyming requirements.

It seems the only hand I could be dealt
Was one in which I had no cards at all.

Same meaning, but in metaphor.
---------------------------------------------------
1st two lines - 3rd Quatrain

I wonder what kind of person I’ve changed into
I try and step outside myself and see

Now, you're wondering if it's you that is the problem and put yourselves in your lover's shoes.

Again, we've wondered before, let's try to lose that, if possible.

I question where the fault lies with us two,

And step outside myself to search and see -

2nd two lines - 3rd Quatrain

I try and think of not "I" but "you"
And what you see when you look at me

To try and think not "I" but only "you"

And what you think when you see only me.

---------------------------------------------------
The couplet

And when another says that my love they’ve got
What will they love in me that you did not?

This second to last line was my least favorite because the sentence structure is awkward and makes the rhyme very forced. So, I look for a way to say the same thing, but with different words. Losing the "And" becuase it's not continuing a thought from the previous line.

Yet when a lover claims my heart they've got,

Your last line is fab.

What will they love in me that you did not?

---------------------------------------------------

Altogether, it now looks like this:

Lost Love (Lemon Love)

I wonder could you love me even now
Or ever really loved me in the past?
I see the love my parent's share somehow
And yet I truly ask what makes love last?

The ice within your heart I cannot melt.
You change your number every time I call.
It seems the only hand I could be dealt
Was one in which I had no cards at all.

I question where the fault lies with us two,
And step outside myself to search and see -
To try and think not "I" but only "you"
And what you think when you see only me.

Yet when a lover claims my heart they've got,
What will they love in me that you did not?

---------------------------------------------------

See, with the ideas there, it's just a matter of messing with the words a bit. It's amazing how close you were.


- Judo

And just who's not listening?

Posted by Lauren.Hynde - First of all, I'm not going to comment on the form. Judo set those rules, and seeing I broke them myself, I can't really tell you it's OK to do it.

(But now that she's not listening, let me tell you: hey, what the hell, we're not in the 16th century anymore, and modern poetry is all about subverting the rules!)

Click to expand...

LH, you naughty girl. And just when I thought you might learn to behave.

Just kidding. Can't wait to see it.


- Judo

Under A Fusillade Of Popping Kernel Drops

OK, first things' first:

I did not follow the rules! I feel bad enough having to write it in English, I'm certainly not going to desecrate my cultural heritage further my using the Shakespearian Sonnet. I'm in Portugal, so I'll use the Classic Sonnet or nothing at all. And remember, Judo, that when counting the syllables on a poem, you should count the metric syllables, not the grammatical! (that's the way I learned in school, at least, hope I can get away with that...)


And here it is:
(karmadog: read 'em and weep )


Under A Fusillade of Popping Kernel Drops

Please tell me, lover, how much I mean to you,
Show me the shades of your delectable dream,
Please hold me tight, make my bliss supreme,
From gloom set me free, all my fears subdue.

Since ever embroiled in an existence askew,
To tell you my soul, burns as to blaspheme.
Show me the way to you, give me your gleam.
From grief release me, all my wrongs undo

In this deep black pool in which I immersed,
No chimera, no feeling, no warmth, I’m cursed,
The faithless despair of my heart as it stops.

I scream out your name, all my doubts dispersed,
As if I was, my lover, quenching my thirst
Under fusillades of popping kernel drops.

Thanks Judo & Lauren!

Thanks for your review Lauren! It was really cool! Your sonnet is great, but I really know so little about this form that I feel not quite right assuming that my critique of yours would give you any constructive help. (I know that's the lame excuse others use for not giving feedback, but in this case it is just the plain truth.)

Judo!

I'm sorry I put you through all that work (revising my sonnet)! But I'm really glad you did. I knew it was off, but the version I wrote trying to fit the right number of syllables made the sonnet look more and more like Frankensteins Monster, and I STILL didn't really know if I was doing it right, so I went ahead and posted an earlier draft, and took a chance at appearing like the poet poser that I am.

Your detailed critique was really interesting to read though. I learned a lot... mostly I learned how little I really know!

Testosterone break

Well, hopefully I can get away with injecting a bit of testosterone into this sea of estrogen. At least I have a fairly high estrogen level for a male, I think: I'm definitely in touch with my feminine side!


JUDO, I realize you're a lesbian, and you'd rather do women than men, but really! I posted my poem first, but you critiqued all these gals' poems first. My feelings are hurt.


Good Petrarchian sonnet, Lauren. A quick technical note: the rhyme scheme for the Petrarchian sonnet is abba abba cde cde. Contrast that with the rhyme scheme for the Shakepearean sonnet, which is abab cdcd efef gg. The Petrarchian sonnet is actually a tighter and more difficult form, having only five rhyme sounds instead of seven.

Does "fusillade of popping kernel drops" mean what I think it means?

It's what I'm here for

SAS -

No problem. It's a challenge to me and fun to figure out. Like I said, yours was easy because you had already done all the dirty work. The ideas were there. It was a simple matter of revision.

What I tried to show you was how I go about revising my own work, by revising yours and putting my thoughts down. Hopefully, it will help you try new ways of looking at your material in the future when you need to do stuff like this.

Yes, it was a bit of a chore (mostly worrying about losing the connection on DSL when writing it - Augh!), but when you start a thread like this, you gotta see it through!

Thanks for contributing.

- Judo