Rape as a Fantasy

I have noticed that a commonly recurring theme in the fantasies discussed by subs on this forum is that of rape. Not just play rape, but a lot of submissives talk about being raped as one of their ultimate fantasies, wishing it would come true. As an example, one Litster talks about wishing she could be raped but knowing the only thing that would prevent her from allowing it to happen would be being the uncertainty of the disease free status of their "partner."

Obviously rape is one of the most traumatizing things that can happen to a person, and a horrible crime for anyone to commit. However, in light of a lot of the posts on this board I could also see how it might be the ultimate humiliation/domination fantasy for someone who is into that sort of thing. My question is, how many subs out there have had this as a fantasy? Not play rape or scene rape or anything like that, but how many of you have actually wondered if you might like actually having sex forced on you by a stranger? Are there any of you that have ever tried to put yourselves into a situation to be raped?

A final and admittedly extremely controversial question; have any of you ever been raped and liked it?

Okay. Who wants to get raped?

Line-up.

ChilledVodka said:

Okay. Who wants to get raped?

Line-up.

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At least brush your teeth first CV... your breath is just reeking... damn. Who's ass you been eating? LOL

PBW "I need flip-flops"

Many have the fantasy of being raped, but I don't think very many actually want to be raped by a stranger. It's a little like Daddy play. There are woman who get off on that type of play, but to actually fuck their fathers would be repulsive.

Silliness aside...

Rape isn't about sex. It's about power and rage... and violation... and sometimes death. I don't think we can just limit this to the sex.

Just my 2 cents.

PBW

I have a rape fantasy. I want my boyfriend to tie me town and take me unexpectedly. I wouldn't want raped my a stranger though.
This is odd for me, because I'm the dom but for about a year now I want him to surprise rape me.
weird

As much as I tried .. I can't keep my big mouth shut!

Advance statement:

a) I am not submissive
b) I have had rape fantasies - which makes me think most women, sub or not, have had them.
c) Try and do anything to me against my will and bear the consequences (trust me, you DON'T want to go there!)

That said...

Marquis said:

I have noticed that a commonly recurring theme in the fantasies discussed by subs on this forum is that of rape. Not just play rape, but a lot of submissives talk about being raped as one of their ultimate fantasies, wishing it would come true.

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Sorry - where are you getting that info from? Fantasy yes, but ALL women I know are very clear about it being just that - a fantasy, and never would they want it to happen under any circumstances they were not ultimately in control about or assured of the outcome of the scene and the preset limits it has to stay within.

As an example, one Litster talks about wishing she could be raped but knowing the only thing that would prevent her from allowing it to happen would be being the uncertainty of the disease free status of their "partner."

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And I bet if asked a bit further it would show that, yes, it would have to be someone disease free, good looking, washed and at least average hygienic, not too much older than herself (or younger or ...), without the whole affair resulting into any physical damage such as fractures, abbrasions and other unpleasant painful issues like knife cuts or a blown out brain thanks to a handy gun to avoid later identification in a court case. And of course we don't want to get pregnant by it either, right?

Plus - it will be a warm night in a cozy bit of the woods or any other semi-romantic place, no other witnesses to ever know about it, and the "victim" would feel turned on by this whole scene.

All this is how we imagine "rape" to be - truth is: no control to what happens, where it goes and how and when it ends. No way to stop it if it doesn't turn out the way we imagined. He may stink out of his mouth with yellow tooth stumps and not have washed in ages ... yummy pics to think about, right? Wanna give head to that baby? He may hurt you in ways that are not on your "love it when it hurts so good" scale at all, and when he is done you are left with pain, disgust and fear for long times to come.

Obviously rape is one of the most traumatizing things that can happen to a person, and a horrible crime for anyone to commit.

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Nothing to add to that! definitely no but, however or any other word that may sanction the issue!

However, in light of a lot of the posts on this board I could also see how it might be the ultimate humiliation/domination fantasy for someone who is into that sort of thing.

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Emphasis again on fantasy in the above paragraph, and in that I agree.

My question is, how many subs out there have had this as a fantasy? Not play rape or scene rape or anything like that, but how many of you have actually wondered if you might like actually having sex forced on you by a stranger?

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As stated above, I am not submissive but have had that fantasy as I woudl assume most women have - let's face it though: it is not about rape!!!! it is about being passive, being helpless, being "not guilty" for what is happening and thus ultimately free from the "sin of enjoying sex with a stranger". My fantasies were always "perfect" - good looking strangers, freshly bathed and clean, and doing to me miraculously just the things I would love them to do ... never fear to not live through it, never disgust, never pain and ultimately never any "afterwards" to deal with desease, pregnancy, humiliation as you have to make your way home in tattered rags, crying from the pain and shame.

Are there any of you that have ever tried to put yourselves into a situation to be raped?

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I can only speak for myself but NO! definitely absolutely NO!

A final and admittedly extremely controversial question; have any of you ever been raped and liked it?

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I have never had any even remote occurances in my life to resemble rape, never have I directly been subject to rape and I have not even ever had any encounters with being molested in any form, not even lightly.

Of the people I know who were less lucky I do not know a single one who came out of this tragedy without sever damage to their psyche and unfortunately a few with as severe damages to their bodies. I truthfully can say none wanted it and none enjoyed it.



Marquis, this statement against rape is not directed to you as a person - I just used your post as it offers some pointers to the "clichees" that seem to go around in many people's (men and women alike) heads. I was trying to not comment as I knew I had nothing nice to say, but rape - and specially rape in the BDSM-context - is a topic that irritates and irks me to no end.

Too many excuses have been made by selfprofessed Dominants under the guise of "all women secretly yearn to be raped" too much damage has been done to the reputation and understanding of our lifestyle by this, and too many fine women have had their lives destroyed by rape

There is no way ever that rape can go under the "mantle of BDSM". You can scene rape, you can scene non-consent, you can arrange for things to happen with strangers. But it then is not rape - it is then an act happening between consenting adults who are aware of what it is they are about to get engaged in.

Rape is not about sex, rape is about violence !!

I am a female submissive, and I would LOVE to do a consensual "rape" scene with a Dom. My last Dom wouldn't do it with me, because it crossed a line for him...not that he thought I actually wanted to be raped, or that he would actually be having sex with me without my consent, but he thought it was kind of like laughing at a funeral...satirizing something that is very serious for some people. I was disappointed, but understood. We all have limits.

That said, I have never been raped, but I was assaulted once. I was out with a guy, not really a date, just "out". I made it VERY clear from minute one that I was not interested in sexual contact with him because I thought he may have had the wrong idea. He said that was OK...until he got a few drinks in him.

He kissed me against my will and removed my shirt against my will. It stopped there, thankfully. It could have been much worse. Still, I felt plenty violated enough, thankyouverymuch, so I can't see how ANYONE would enjoy a real, honest to gosh stranger rape.

To be honest, I could never see how anyone could really enjoy a rape as well, but its not like people on this forum haven't surprised me before. I want to make it clear that I never meant to say that rape was anything but a terrible thing, I was merely interested in hearing the opinions of those people who seem to disagree. Unfortunately, no one with that viewpoint has yet posted to this thread and I am beginning to feel its not going to happen.

Perhaps, as was suggested, the people who were discussing it before were genuinely discussing it as purely a fantasy, or perhaps they feel awkward about making such a taboo feeling known. The world may never know.

I could enjoy a rape in real-life. But not with a stranger unless someone else I knew had set up the rape with the stranger.

I fantasize about force all the time, it's the hottest kind of sex for me and have written some very long and interesting rape story-fantasies. Unfortunately, all of them have been banished, as I say in my sig, to the Extreme Stories section which means that if they ever do appear there (updates are extremely infrequent) it probably won't be for another 12 months I imagine (it's already been nearly six months since I submitted them).

I suppose I could try to post them here, but if Lit won't have them in their regular story section, why would they allow them on their bbs?

Unda. Crucia. Eximius.

I have to wonder UCE, are you talking about actually being raped? You are actually wanting to submit to being punched, kicked, slapped, whipped, have your teeth knocked out, your eyes blackened, receiving a concussion, having your jaw broken (in several places), your clothes ripped to shreds right off your body, the skin on the inside and outside of your vagina torn and ripped, your ribs broken, enduring the shame of being found much later before you've really woken back up (if you ever do), the looks on the paramedics faces when they see your naked, broken body, smelling your own urine and defecation and realizing they smell it too, the whispers and looks of the people watching, being probed by the doctors and investigators, completing a 'rape kit', retelling the story to the prosecutor about 10 times just so the facts are straight, telling your friends and family, contracting a sexually transmitted disease with no cure, birthing the child your rapist fathered, becoming a member of the unique community of rape victims... and I'm sure that's not the half of it.

Or just a fantasy play rape where ya wake up in the morning and kiss each other before heading to the shower and the worst you have to show for it is a bruise or two?

Just wondering... ya left some details out there...

PBW

Rape is a violent act of hatred and power. There's nothing safe, sane or erotic about it. A person who releases his need for power and control via sexual intercourse with out obtaining consent is a rapist and they create victims. This type of person is not a lover or a Dom. A rapist has no control or choses not to retain control over himself. Rape is a seriousact that can and does damage woman not just emotionally but often quit physically. Some women are ripped and torn and left scarred. Some women are killed.

This is not what women/men want. They want to relinquish control of their bodies and give the power to someone who is still in control of himself. This may include pain and humiliation but it does not mean that youu are allowing someone to actually victimize you.

Perhaps we should come up with a new term. Perhaps "forced sex" is fine. Any ideas?

Marquis, as you say, rape, actual rape is a heinous crime.

Hecate, you're right, imo it's generally traumatic, though not so much as some other things, imho. (Like being water tortured by the secret police in a Latin American country.)

It might also be pointed out that it happens to males.

Those things said, some further points, purely my personal pov.

It's a slogan that rape is about violence, not sex. Probably a grain of truth, but that's it. Also there are types of rapes, different targets (the pretty girl next door, or the 70 yr old lady up the hall) . There are, after all, any number of ways to be violent to someone, e.g., beating them, including making them beg for their lives. The sexual avenue is chosen for a reason, imo, a partly sexual one. Sexual and violent impulses are often intertwined, if you ever read Juliette.

The fantasy possibilities--and that's what this is all about-- sometimes straddle the alternatives of 'dom' pretended rape and stranger rape.

1) The dom and sub arranging for 'her' to be surprised and taken by another.

2) when a dom/me arranges a (consensual) scene where the sub, let's say at a party, is bound and taken by whoever wishes, is essentially rape (i.e., a fantasy one).

In sum, and in my purely personal view, the fantasy element is primary, the fantasied being overcome (being 'forced' in one sense). However a 'rape' is staged among consenting adults, the primary objective of avoiding harm, and staying legal should be kept in mind.

You can't rape the willing

It's a generalization to say that all women or all subs have rape fantasies. You can't rape the willing. Once you cross over into something that the submissive is utterly unwilling to do, it's no longer their rape fantasy.

If a submissive and Dominant have fantasies that they wish to share which include "nonconsensual" CONSENT, it is still not rape. Rape is nonconsensual. Perhaps these fantasies involve being "used" and "surprised" moreso than actual technical "rape". Perhaps they have to do with the power of fear, claiming it, playing with it - but I disagree that it is actually a desire to truly be raped.

That's why it is called "rape fantasy".

My question is, how many subs out there have had this as a fantasy? Not play rape or scene rape or anything like that, but how many of you have actually wondered if you might like actually having sex forced on you by a stranger? Are there any of you that have ever tried to put yourselves into a situation to be raped? A final and admittedly extremely controversial question; have any of you ever been raped and liked it?

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Oh, and NO to all of the above. I've never been raped, nor wished it.

How many Dom/mes have actual rape fantasies? In the fantasy does s/he like it?

i am a 22 year old sub, with a master who loves me very much and i have been raped twice,

both times by people i was dating, the first time was when i was 13 and the last time i was about 20. In my humble opinion the worst thing about it was not the actual incident, although that was pretty terrible, but it was that even 9 years after it happenned, both these men are so buried in my psyche ( or whatever you want to call it) that i still wake up screaming when i get the nightmares, and there are things, that i can't do, or have done to me because it brings it all back to me.

yes i did the therapy thing ( for just over a year) but they are still there and i have to accept that on some level they always will be.

rape fantasy is something that has never crossed my mind ever, being playfull with my master is one thing, but i choose to let him do that, and i trust that he would never hurt me.

i dont think people who have rape fantasies really want it to happen, its just that, a fantasy

and everyone should be allowed to have their own ideas without being criticised

P. B. Walker said:

Silliness aside...

Rape isn't about sex. It's about power and rage... and violation... and sometimes death. I don't think we can just limit this to the sex.

Just my 2 cents.

PBW

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Many people libidinize power, rage, and violationl; from both the doer and doee side of the equation. The definition of rape as a "crime of anger, not sex" is wishful thinking originally proposed by feminist activists with no insight whatsoever into the psychosexual workings of the actual human bean.

Re: You can't rape the willing

lark sparrow said:

How many Dom/mes have actual rape fantasies? In the fantasy does s/he like it?

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I can not speak for anyone but me, but I never had any rape fantasies in which I am the "rapist".

It is actually one of my nightmares to ever take someone to a place where s/he doesn't really want to be if even by mistake or misunderstanding. I nurture my Domination on the freely given submission of those I cherish and respect as play partners or lovers. "Forced" play is not for me and even a rape scene is not really in my alley ...

Response to PBW's Questions

Sure I left out details! I didn't think I wanted to get into them as they might stir up a hornets nest. Rape is an extremely controversial issue. I'll give you some more details, but be warned, I'm also going to blame YOU if the hornets fly home, lol.

You're talking about stranger rape, or random encounter rape. I'm talking about rape with somebody I know or a rape set up by somebody I know. No paramedics. No left to be found by a stranger. I like an unusually high level of physicality, and a good amount of what you list in terms of abuse is quite acceptable because it would not impair my ability to peform my normal functions in life (that's where I draw the line) or at least not for more than a few days.

But other things that you list, like the broken bones and more-severe injuries requiring hospitalization happen in such an extremely tiny number of rapes that I am suprised to hear you associate them with the word. Most rapes involve just enough force to get it in and your business done.

Stranger rape or random encounter rape, more accuruately, is the type where you're left lying somewhere for the paramedics to find you. Even hostile "real" date rapes that women do not want to experience often occur in their own homes or the home of a friend, not in some generic "back alley."

Most women who are raped do not piss themselves, let along shit themselves. Even most people who are as severely beat up as you described do not invariably loosen their bowels and bladders during the process. I might experience this, given the level of roughness I like, but it wouldn't be a big deal.

It takes an awful lot of abuse from one man unless he's built like the proverbial horse to tear a resiliant vagina so bad it bleeds. Sure it might get scraped and sore, but for vaginal bleeding to occur, I think you would need very very rough raping by at least ten men and probably more. The anus is another matter of course.

This isn't utter univited stranger rape or even unwelcome date rape we're talking about here, so the whole scenario you've painted of police, doctors, friends, and family just does not apply.

The rape I envision is semi-planned by both participants. By semi-planned I mean, you _both_ (it's a danger for him, too!) do all the disease-checking, birth control arrangements, medical supplies to have around afterwards and other necessary discussion before you actually jump in the waters.

I probably will never experience a real rape because I am owned lock stock and barrel and someone you are long intimate with just cannot rape you realistically. So no, your other extreme of fantasy rape and then the kissy in the shower and a couple of bruises to show is not realistic either. At least for me, that level of fantasy rape is too little like rape to engage me sexually.

So how does a single and available person get raped in a way where the extreme physical dangers of broken bones and AIDs which you speak of (however rare) do not occur but that also doesn't feel like that ho-hum, "OK, dear, I'll be home at four to rape you. Be ready in the living room like we planned?" Well, there is a huge amount of grey area between these two extremes of random stranger rape and planned tame fantasy rape with a very well-known partner, and if I were in a position to fulfill such a fantasy, that is where I would be dealing: in the murky grey.

There are a number of ways for a woman to get herself raped in a situation in which she doesn't die or contract aids or bear an unwanted child but in which there is suprise, terror, unpredictability, and, at least for me, a good amount of physical abuse (yes, I know I said physical abuse is atypical for the standard rape, but if I'm going to be raped, why should I or my partner have to go for a pale, boring version, simply because it's "more standard." The idea here is for both people to have FUN with this). What all of these ways have in common is that she has to find a man with the right temperment and background, a man who adores the idea of rape as much as she does, someone with a rape mentality, _and_ who is experienced enough with fighting and being beat up--however he gets that experience--that he knows how to hurt without causing serious harm. In other words, he knows how to throw a punch that'll hurt like hell but not break your jaw. He'll know where he can kick without sending you to the hospital with internal bleeding and where he cannot. It also helps if the man has a vicious side to him, a side that lets him put away the "you do not hit women" indoctrination that many guys get, a side which he can access at the right time and put away once the fun is over and the triage (if ncessary) is needed.

Finding men who claim they can do all this is very easy. I see such people frequently online. Finding someone who has what it takes to actually carry out with what you want is the hard part. What I call dealing in the grey areas is actually more like walking a tightrope: you don't want to overbalance too much on either side. On the one hand you want to experience something that's minimally safe--for both individuals (it isn't just the woman who has to trust the rapist not to permanently damage her, the potential rapist has to be able to trust the woman to not call the police on him, and both people have to trust the other not to give them a disease). On the other hand you both want an experience that's exciting and stimulating in the way a real rape might be with elements of terror, intimidation, violence, believable threats, and full of rough, forced sex. So some sort of "getting to know you" period has to occur between the two, enough that each is assured the other will abide by the agreement they work out. But if too much of this occurs, and the individuals get to know each other too well or (heaven forbid) fall in love, the chances of the rape being exciting go down.

Where do you go to find a potential rapist or rapee? There are plenty of places online, believe me, and if I were in a position to fulfill this fantasy, I would probably go to one of them. I am not going to name any of them here as I don't know who is reading this. My best advice is just to persistenly search for these meeting places. If you're a decent searcher you'll find them.

You can also find such people simply by reading the profiles or bios they put up in various social sites. Normally somebody looking for this either hints about it on their profile or says it outright. Actually, it's the rapist types who hint and the rapee types who say it outright, I've seen, because saying that you want to rape can get you into so much more legal trouble than saying you want to rape. Sometimes you bumb into them because something about your personality attracts them or vice-versa. I have personally met a very few men over the years I have been online who I could both trust to do this sort of fantasy without extreme harm to me but who at the same time would have the right level and intensity of interest, the right sort of personality, to do it so it was very hot for both of us.

Aside from insisting upon the bare minimum of safety necessary, a woman who wants to do something as extreme as actually being raped is probably going to have to give up a lot of control and negotiating power and let the rapist decide all the details. Doing so will make the rape experience hotter for her, but primarily the guys she's going to meet who are interested in this kind of play aren't going to be like the average bdsm type: they aren't going to be interested in her _feelings_ first, particularly in her desire to control the action and details in order to feel safe. They are going to want considerable room to operate, to set up a scenario, to run things their way. So I think a woman or other rapee doing this sort of play has to be prepared and capable of sustaining, emotionally and physically, a great amount of abuse--probably more than she would want under ideal conditions. A woman who falls to pieces over a cruel insult or a mild slap isn't the sort who should be trying to find a rapist, because the whole point of a rape experience enacted as realistically as possible is that it is NOT ideal for the rapee--it is not HER fantasy down to the last detail that gets fulfilled. The way I see it is that she's giving a man access to her body so that he can fulfill HIS fantasy of rape down to the last detail. What's in it for her is that she wants to be raped, and that is what she will get. If she wants to lay out all the conditions of the rape (what day, what hour, what he can do and not do, beyond the safety stuff) it isn't a rape anymore: she's acquired a pushbutton robot to do whatever she wants is all.

A woman who wants to enact a rape fantasy would be better off achieving her goal and being whole and unmaimed afterwards if she already is a very good judge of human character and has had sufficient experience with so many types of people that she can sense or spot a potential danger. Even more, she needs the self-discipline to avoid the dangerous person once he's been identified. A non-submissive woman with a rape fantasy would have more sucess in this sense than a submissive one, on the average, because traits that too often accompany submissiveness are gullibility and impulsiveness.

For the woman who can't take a lot of physical or emotional abuse (with somebody who knows what he's doing, the emotional abuse can be the most devestating part of such an experience) but who have an overwhelming rape fantasy, the best way of having it fulfilled might be simply to meet somebody who will tie her up and then take her. If she knows the tier-up too well and it wouldn't be very rape-like with him, she could ask him (if they have that sort of relationship) to find someone else to rape her, someone willing to do more fucking than hitting, and then get tied up and have him there or nearby while the stranger takes her. She's have to rely on her friend's judgement to find somebody without a disease, who wouldn't end up killing her or maiming her, and all the other important stuff.

A number of women like to go the gangbang route as it can be far safer and easier to find than a one-on-one rapist. There are numerous small groups of men all over the world who advertise themselves in personal ads or on sex groups as custom gang-bangers. They meet with a woman and gangbang her in any way that she wishes: she sets all the rules. If she wants it rough, if she wants to be tied up and not let go no matter how much she begs, if she wants it rape-like, they'll do that. Or they'll be as civilized as she wants. They'll do the orifices she specifies and no others. I say that such groups are safer because to get women to consent to their free "services" they have to provide assurances and guarantees of safety of various sorts.

P. B. Walker said:

I have to wonder UCE, are you talking about actually being raped? You are actually wanting to submit to being punched, kicked, slapped, whipped, have your teeth knocked out, your eyes blackened, receiving a concussion, having your jaw broken (in several places), your clothes ripped to shreds right off your body, the skin on the inside and outside of your vagina torn and ripped, your ribs broken, enduring the shame of being found much later before you've really woken back up (if you ever do), the looks on the paramedics faces when they see your naked, broken body, smelling your own urine and defecation and realizing they smell it too, the whispers and looks of the people watching, being probed by the doctors and investigators, completing a 'rape kit', retelling the story to the prosecutor about 10 times just so the facts are straight, telling your friends and family, contracting a sexually transmitted disease with no cure, birthing the child your rapist fathered, becoming a member of the unique community of rape victims... and I'm sure that's not the half of it.

Or just a fantasy play rape where ya wake up in the morning and kiss each other before heading to the shower and the worst you have to show for it is a bruise or two?

Just wondering... ya left some details out there...

PBW

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I have no problem with your opinion but to lie it all at the feet of feminism seems rather short-sighted as well.

If sex has to do with sexual attraction at all, then what of the more extreme serial rapists who rape indiscrimately - from a 6 year old girl, to a 98 year woman. Is there not some misogyny occuring there?

On the other hand, what about prison rape - where one heterosexual man rapes another heterosexual man?

Then there's date rape, where two people may indeed be attracted, but one forces another to have sex nonconsensually through ignorance, misunderstanding or something else.

It's a complex act, and fantasy.

Re: You can't rape the willing

lark sparrow said:

It's a generalization to say that all women or all subs have rape fantasies. You can't rape the willing. Once you cross over into something that the submissive is utterly unwilling to do, it's no longer their rape fantasy.

If a submissive and Dominant have fantasies that they wish to share which include "nonconsensual" CONSENT, it is still not rape. Rape is nonconsensual. Perhaps these fantasies involve being "used" and "surprised" moreso than actual technical "rape". Perhaps they have to do with the power of fear, claiming it, playing with it - but I disagree that it is actually a desire to truly be raped.

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Well, in "fantasy" rape, the rapist can make parts of the experience non-consensual, if not the overall agreement to rape. He can perhaps rape her in a manner or in an orifice that's completely unexpected to her. He can involve someone or several someones in the rape whom she doesn't know or who she would never think of raping her. He can make the time and place of the rape nonconsensual. This last can be particularly effective if it's really is a suprise to the person. Say, if his partner has told him she'd like to be raped, he immediately denies at the time any interest whatsoever in raping her, but then he waits until she's forgotten the incident completely, and then gives the rape she asked for but then believed she wouldn't ever get from him. Is that rape? Or is it not, because she gave prior consent even though she was misled about the outcome of her consent? It's not completely clear. It's possible for a woman into rape to find a man she knows would like to rape and give him non-verbal signals to that effect. These non-verbal signals can be direct or indirect, but if done effectively, he'll just one day take her without her permission and probably in a situation where she'd very much NOT like to be raped. One extremely effective way of doing indirect nonverbal signaling is to sexually tease him beyond all endurance, invite him for intimacy then push him away, bring him close again, then feign boredom, over and over and over until the man gets so frustrated he goes for her.

All of the above are what I mean by the grey areas between consent and non-consent. It isn't a completely black and white issue, and it makes me wonder if raping the willing isn't to some extent possible.

Unda. Crucia. Eximius.

Re: Re: You can't rape the willing

Hecate said:

I can not speak for anyone but me, but I never had any rape fantasies in which I am the "rapist".

It is actually one of my nightmares to ever take someone to a place where s/he doesn't really want to be if even by mistake or misunderstanding. I nurture my Domination on the freely given submission of those I cherish and respect as play partners or lovers. "Forced" play is not for me and even a rape scene is not really in my alley ...

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The Domme I belong to also feels the same and will not even participate in "forced" play. It's a worn out cliche, but for a reason - No means no. And a power exchange is consensual. If I don't want to be at Her feet and submit to Her willingly there are plenty of others who will. She has no need to force anyone.

That is not to say there is no room for it in anyone's play. It's entirely acceptable if both parties agree, understand and find in pleasure in being "forced".

Indiekittie said:

i am a 22 year old sub, with a master who loves me very much and i have been raped twice,

both times by people i was dating, the first time was when i was 13 and the last time i was about 20............

i dont think people who have rape fantasies really want it to happen, its just that, a fantasy

and everyone should be allowed to have their own ideas without being criticised

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In most cases I think you're right, that the person doesn't want the reality--at least not the reality of stranger rape. Once somebody described to me what she thought women really wanted when they had rape fantasies: she said that they want to be "ravished" (as in the dashing romatic figure whom the woman in the romance novel is alraedy deeply attracted to, loses control and just wildy "takes" her).

Some of us who seek out extreme experiences, however, would love to experience the reality of a slightly planned rape--as little planned as possible. Some of us know exactly what real rape feels like. Raped at 13? Well welcome to the fucking club! I was raped at that age too--he took my virginity. I experienced maybe five or six attempted rapes after that, none of them sucessful, but most terrifying and hateful and I have all the negative side effects that such expereinces give you. Nevertheless, if I were in a position to arrange a kind of realistic rape, I would, as nothing in the world gets me hotter.

Unda. Crucia. Eximius.

I like "forced sex" a lot as a term for this. I think it makes your distinction nicely.

Unda

TxBelle said:

Rape is a violent act of hatred and power. There's nothing safe, sane or erotic about it. A person who releases his need for power and control via sexual intercourse with out obtaining consent is a rapist and they create victims. This type of person is not a lover or a Dom. A rapist has no control or choses not to retain control over himself. Rape is a seriousact that can and does damage woman not just emotionally but often quit physically. Some women are ripped and torn and left scarred. Some women are killed.

This is not what women/men want. They want to relinquish control of their bodies and give the power to someone who is still in control of himself. This may include pain and humiliation but it does not mean that youu are allowing someone to actually victimize you.

Perhaps we should come up with a new term. Perhaps "forced sex" is fine. Any ideas?

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Re: Re: You can't rape the willing

UCE said:

All of the above are what I mean by the grey areas between consent and non-consent. It isn't a completely black and white issue, and it makes me wonder if raping the willing isn't to some extent possible.

Unda. Crucia. Eximius.

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I agree with you. Everyone thinks of this in their own way. Those who enjoy rape fantasies or forced play see it as a gray area, those who do not, see it in a more black and white way. Neither is better or the final word. I can see the gray areas for you and anyone else who sees them.

Kaldea said:

I have a rape fantasy. I want my boyfriend to tie me town and take me unexpectedly. I wouldn't want raped my a stranger though.
This is odd for me, because I'm the dom but for about a year now I want him to surprise rape me.
weird

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Yes, it is odd but not unknown. It sounds like you have switch feelings. I have heard other switch people talk similarly. I hope for your sake that your partner isn't fully committed to being the sub one.