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Old 02-15-2014, 08:07 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
Time to give up on this one as the point has been made by more than enough people.
I'll believe that when this thread falls off the front page. The trouble is, the many participants won't give up unless their point is the last one made.
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:21 PM   #102
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SR71PLT: How many men do you know that have been cuckolded? How many women do you know that have been cucqueaned? I know three women whose husbands cheated on them, and they're now divorced. I know two men whose wives cheated on them, and they're now divorced.

PennLady: I don't believe that the word is changing that much. :-) Now, the definition of the word is a different story. As has been shown, the general definition now relies upon one spouse committing adultery (sex with someone else other than their spouse). That's a pretty wide net. However, the origin of the term was derived from the brood parasite behavior of the cuckoo, implying that biological supplantation. It's certainly possible that someday they'll add a sub-definition to it in recognition of the usage embraced by a sexual fetish subculture.
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:29 PM   #103
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SR71PLT: How many men do you know that have been cuckolded? How many women do you know that have been cucqueaned? I know three women whose husbands cheated on them, and they're now divorced. I know two men whose wives cheated on them, and they're now divorced.
The only thing that springs to mind here is "so what?"
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:38 PM   #104
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The only thing that springs to mind here is "so what?"
Some have appeared to argue that since they are experienced with a particular definition of cuckold, it is their definition which counts. My view is that the vast majority of the world are experienced with the general definition. For example, you might not have any experience with those involved in the cuckold fetish subculture, but you probably know men and women that were cheated on by their spouse.
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:42 PM   #105
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Still scratching my head. A subculture's choices don't change standard definitions of anything for everyone else. And I don't think that personal experience has anything to do with that.
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:11 PM   #106
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Still scratching my head. A subculture's choices don't change standard definitions of anything for everyone else. And I don't think that personal experience has anything to do with that.
I don't believe that it changes general definitions. However, the point I was making is that the general definition applies to more people than the fetish definitions. People without any contact with a cuckold fetish subculture probably personally know people that would fit the general definition of cuckold/cucquean (people cheated upon by their spouses).
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:17 AM   #107
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monogamous man

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Originally Posted by CarolineJames View Post
I wrote "For me, the only distinction is that..." I wasn't trying to redefine the definition of cuckold. On the other hand, most of the women that I know in the lifestyle prefer (or insist) that their men remain monogamous.

Are you actively involved in cuckolding?
I prefer the variation that the cuckold's sexual activity is determined by his wife. That might mean no sex, sex with her or she chooses his partners. The submission and humiliation is optional, though often required as a means of establishing the wife's authority.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:34 PM   #108
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i have recently learned that the definition of cuckold has recently changed. In Classic literature it meant a man whose wife was taken by another or used by another with or without his knowledge, usually without. Now I understand it is taken to mean one whose wife is taken in his presence to humiliate him for everyone's pleasure, as a type of sado/masochism. The term comes from the cukoo bird who steals the nests of other birds.
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:51 AM   #109
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i have recently learned that the definition of cuckold has recently changed.
Not really. What has happened is that a small group of fetishists with no appreciation of language use the term to mean something very different than its centuries-old traditional meaning. Almost an opposite meaning, in fact. This isn't like slang where 'bad' means 'good'. It's more like doublespeak: 'peace' means 'war', 'eternal life' means 'death', etc. The traditional cuck is unwilling and maybe unwitting. The fetishist cuck is witting and willing. These are incompatible.

The question is, why? Why abuse the term? My guess: laziness. Those using cuck in fetishist mode are too fucking lazy to use or develop a better word. Feh.
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Old 02-21-2014, 08:42 AM   #110
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I prefer the variation that the cuckold's sexual activity is determined by his wife. That might mean no sex, sex with her or she chooses his partners. The submission and humiliation is optional, though often required as a means of establishing the wife's authority.
Well said!!!!
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:37 AM   #111
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My guess: laziness.
My guess is ignorance of the definition. Not realizing they would need a different term for it.
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Old 02-21-2014, 06:58 PM   #112
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guess I'm late the party if Lovecraft has already called the thread dead - but what the hell.

Thanks PennLady for the link and I enjoyed reading the first page or so of comments.

As authors, I think we get defensive when a word's meaning begins shifting. I think the word is becoming more inclusive. I know, for some, the wife of a a "real" cuckold is having sex with a B.B.C. - Maybe that's supposed to make it extra humiliating?

I think the author of the article leaves out another potential explanation for the phenom: Acceptance. Here's what I mean: IF the wife has sex with another man, especially another man who is better endowed and THEN she still prefers remaining with her hubby and his smaller endowment, what could explain it? True love! She really does love him, warts, small dick and all!!!!

Just a theory, of course.
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:07 PM   #113
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Off the topic of people who think everyone should check the dictionary before they refer to themselves as something this brings up an interesting point.

The whole cuck/cheating/adventurous wives thing is a sign of how things have changed.

Think back to the days of the fifties and early sixties and all time prior. The dutiful wife stayed home, kept the house raised the kids and tended to her man's needs.

But sometimes hubby wanted more than wifey could give(remember there used to be a mentality that a man could not ask his wife to do certain things only whores did that) and would cheat.

Most women knew it. And it was okay, it was acceptable. The man had needs and as long as he was a good dad and provided for the family and was still good to his wife it was okay. Mothers would tell their daughters who complained of cheating. "Well he's a good man other wise and men.....

Now here we have the women cheating, out and about and the men at home dealing with it. Either going along with it, or not really but helpless to stop them.

Its no longer a man's world and that is very upsetting to many men.

My take? Good for you ladies. The power is in the pussy, always has been, but now its really coming to light.

Maybe the new definition of cuck should be "Hey guys, how do you like it?"
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:51 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
Off the topic of people who think everyone should check the dictionary before they refer to themselves as something this brings up an interesting point.

The whole cuck/cheating/adventurous wives thing is a sign of how things have changed.

Think back to the days of the fifties and early sixties and all time prior. The dutiful wife stayed home, kept the house raised the kids and tended to her man's needs.

But sometimes hubby wanted more than wifey could give(remember there used to be a mentality that a man could not ask his wife to do certain things only whores did that) and would cheat.

Most women knew it. And it was okay, it was acceptable. The man had needs and as long as he was a good dad and provided for the family and was still good to his wife it was okay. Mothers would tell their daughters who complained of cheating. "Well he's a good man other wise and men.....

Now here we have the women cheating, out and about and the men at home dealing with it. Either going along with it, or not really but helpless to stop them.

Its no longer a man's world and that is very upsetting to many men.

My take? Good for you ladies. The power is in the pussy, always has been, but now its really coming to light.

Maybe the new definition of cuck should be "Hey guys, how do you like it?"
Long before the late 20th century, women cheated. In both history and literature, both men and women cheated. It has simply been about motive, opportunity, and risk/cost-benefit. Men who traveled to cities for work had ample opportunities to cheat, often by availing themselves of prostitutes. Women whose husbands who traveled or worked away from home, had opportunity to cheat, but unless they lived in cities, the opportunity and risk was not favorable.

As more and more families moved to the cities, the rate of extramarital affairs went up! Why? Because cities offer a higher chance of anonymity or concealment, as well as a larger selection of potential extramarital partners. As more households had modes of rapid transportation to both men and women, the rate of infidelity went up because more individuals now had the ability to leave home to find potential extramarital partners.

Oral contraceptives did not make women more sexual--they always were sexual. The difference was that the risk of consequences was clearly diminished (at least before STDs reached public consciousness). It meant that husbands had more potential extramarital partners as more women were willing to engage in sex without any commitment, and more wives now had lower levels of risk and were thus more likely to cheat. (Oral contraceptives have also raised the chances of a 'mismatch' as it impairs the woman's ability to naturally detect genetic compatibility.)

As technology and economics enabled (or forced) more opportunities to cheat or reduced the risk/potential cost of cheating, the rate of infidelity has gone up... for both men and women. Men are still more likely to cheat than women, but the ratio is now about 2:1 or lower, closer to parity. This is not because men or women have changed, but because the opportunities, risks, and consequences are more favorable for cheaters of both genders.
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:06 PM   #115
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No, guys, what cuckolding is hasn't changed. It's a derogatory term and any use it's put to that doesn't accept that is bastardizing the term too much. Some subculturists who choose to misunderstand what cuckolding is have chosen to apply it to all sorts of things. They are just a small number of subculturists--ones who don't have the imagination to think up and employ words themselves. They can certainly use it however they want within their subculture, but they don't speak for anyone else.

Comparing it to the use of such words as "ain't" over "isn't" completely misunderstands what the context of words is all about. Denying that cuckold a derogatory term denoting weakness isn't at all like a colloquialism or contraction of a term. "Ain't" doesn't stand the meaning of "Isn't" on its head. It still means the same thing. Making a cuckold happy or in purposeful control of anything stands the meaning of the term on its head--so, is just a misuse of the term.
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:10 PM   #116
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>snip<
But sometimes hubby wanted more than wifey could give(remember there used to be a mentality that a man could not ask his wife to do certain things only whores did that) and would cheat.

Most women knew it. And it was okay, it was acceptable.
>snip<
Not sure I'm with you completely on that last part about "Most women knew it." While I have zero evidence my dad (born 1921) cheated on mom (born 1927) - I'm reasonably sure he did from time to time. And while my mom was damn wise and worldly, she 1) Didn't suspect it and 2) Wouldn't have tolerated it. I think there was more self-denial on the part of the women. Easier NOT to notice signs than to notice them. And I doubt "Redbook" or "Ladies Home Journal" included many articles back then offering the signs of a straying hubby.

I AM with you on there being a mindset that a "good, proper woman" shouldn't do certain things.

My wife still laughs when she tells the sex advice she received from her mother:
"Just lie there, dear. It won't take long and will be over in a minute." Then she reports her mother rolled her eyes, sighed and added, "Though I understand nowadays there are some women who say they enjoy it."

Women ENJOYING sex?! RIGHT!
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:22 PM   #117
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No, guys, what cuckolding is hasn't changed. It's a derogatory term and any use it's put to that doesn't accept that is bastardizing the term too much. Some subculturists who choose to misunderstand what cuckolding is have chosen to apply it to all sorts of things. They are just a small number of subculturists--ones who don't have the imagination to think up and employ words themselves. They can certainly use it however they want within their subculture, but they don't speak for anyone else.

Comparing it to the use of such words as "ain't" over "isn't" completely misunderstands what the context of words is all about. Denying that cuckold a derogatory term denoting weakness isn't at all like a colloquialism or contraction of a term. "Ain't" doesn't stand the meaning of "Isn't" on its head. It still means the same thing. Making a cuckold happy or in purposeful control of anything stands the meaning of the term on its head--so, is just a misuse of the term.
Unless you're not a wordsmith and you read a popular culture article on a very popular website and then the precise meaning of the word begins to shift every so slightly. And before you know it, people get confused about why the 1890's were ever referred to as "The Gay '90's." Gotta grow with the times!
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:42 PM   #118
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Unless you're not a wordsmith and you read a popular culture article on a very popular website and then the precise meaning of the word begins to shift every so slightly. And before you know it, people get confused about why the 1890's were ever referred to as "The Gay '90's." Gotta grow with the times!
The "gay" comparison doesn't work either. It didn't stand the original meaning on its head. It doesn't diametrically oppose the original definition. This has already been pointed out. It doesn't change the definition of "yes" to be "no."

And beyond that, this subculture is a tiny slice of "popular culture"--or of anything else.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:01 AM   #119
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guess I'm late the party if Lovecraft has already called the thread dead - but what the hell.

Thanks PennLady for the link and I enjoyed reading the first page or so of comments.

As authors, I think we get defensive when a word's meaning begins shifting. I think the word is becoming more inclusive. I know, for some, the wife of a a "real" cuckold is having sex with a B.B.C. - Maybe that's supposed to make it extra humiliating?

I think the author of the article leaves out another potential explanation for the phenom: Acceptance. Here's what I mean: IF the wife has sex with another man, especially another man who is better endowed and THEN she still prefers remaining with her hubby and his smaller endowment, what could explain it? True love! She really does love him, warts, small dick and all!!!!

Just a theory, of course.

It seems to me the BBC aspect is very new. The humiliation element is played up by adding a layer of racism to convince the cuck that he is inherently inferior. It is still racism pure and simple.

I like men of all colours, but like most people I have minor preferences in what I find aesthetically pleasing…….dark hair, mature, intelligent and handsome but not overtly studly is my bag. Guys of all ethnic backgrounds can fit the bill, but white, hispanic and sometimes black guys tend to be the closest to what I like.

Even if aggression and cock size were my only criteria (I don't think they are for most women) I still wouldn't be all about the BBC. The fact is that there are lots of ugly small dicked black guys and the good looking studly ones run the gamut from gorgeous and sexy to complete assholes.

Indeed they do seem to have marginally larger cocks on average, but the notion that every black dick is bigger than every white dick is just not true.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:08 AM   #120
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definition

Many word definitions do actually change over time to reflect the way they are being used - dictionaries add or adjust definitions regularly. So it is not as if the entire language was defined a long time ago and set in stone at some long past point in history.

Having said that, I would not say that the more recent fetish take on cuckoldry represents a significant enough change in understanding and usage to warrant an update of the definition.

However, I would offer this. The historical definition is of a man whose wife is cheating on him. His attitude towards the cheating is unrelated. Humiliation is not a given. Conversely to the extent the man knows about and accepts her behaviour it isn't cheating, because cheating implies deception.
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:06 AM   #121
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However, I would offer this. The historical definition is of a man whose wife is cheating on him. His attitude towards the cheating is unrelated. Humiliation is not a given. Conversely to the extent the man knows about and accepts her behaviour it isn't cheating, because cheating implies deception.
The historical definition, based on the parasitic behavior of cuckoo birds, has a cuckolded human male expending resources to unwittingly raising another man's children. This isn't just humiliation; it is theft, and genetic warfare. Cuckolding threatens the survival of the cuckold's genes. Cuckoldry is a physical attack on the cuckold. Many societies have traditionally accepted the cuckold as justified in killing the interposer, as an act of self-defense.

The dynamics of cuckoldry are thus based on biological economics of scarcity. When women are property, so are children. Cuckoldry becomes trivial when resources are abundant. If a tribe raises its children in common, each man is invested in ALL the children, not just those borne by 'his' mate(s). A polyamorous family is such a tribe.

None of this fits within the fetishist usage of the term 'cuckold'. Feh.
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:08 AM   #122
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It seems to me the BBC aspect is very new. The humiliation element is played up by adding a layer of racism to convince the cuck that he is inherently inferior. It is still racism pure and simple.

Indeed they do seem to have marginally larger cocks on average, but the notion that every black dick is bigger than every white dick is just not true.
I would agree with the racism comment.

As for size differences, while I can't argue anecdotal evidence it's been my understanding that size perceptions have been mostly influenced by flaccid or "locker room" appearances instead of actual erect size.

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However, I would offer this. The historical definition is of a man whose wife is cheating on him. His attitude towards the cheating is unrelated. Humiliation is not a given. Conversely to the extent the man knows about and accepts her behaviour it isn't cheating, because cheating implies deception.
That fits my understanding, too, that the man may not know he's a cuck. Historically, it would appear that gains extra meaning defining a man who is unwittingly raising the off-spring from an adulterous affair.

Wikipedia suggests: "Since the 1990s, the term has also been widely used to refer to a sexual fetish in which the fetishist is stimulated by their committed partner choosing to have sex with someone else." I believe that signals an evolution of the term to describe a wider subset of behaviors than it's original meaning.

As for the humiliation aspect, I find that interesting and not necessarily an element of the behavior described in the original article. Going backwards in time to the original use of the word, I would guess "cuckold" was a useful, derisive adjective to describe a sap unaware of his wife's adultery. Clearly, fighting words. If you called me a cuckold, you would be disrespecting both me and my wife. Powerful damn stuff!

I believe the Urban Dictionary offers a more modern interpretation of the word: "A sexually inadequate husband who accepts his wife's pussy is her solely property and she alone decides which men she will fuck,even if it means denying her husband. His only access to her pussy is to clean it of the ejaculate of males she chooses to fuck." Though, again, I think that's a poor definition of the original article's use of the word.

For the statistical minded, Google offers this interest chart of its recorded usage: Link to Google graph.
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:27 AM   #123
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there is more to it

Not seen mentioned the sheer lust evoked by the wife's sexuality. Maybe a cuckold loves to be in aw of her sexual power. And while he may play the role of the inadequate husband during an encounter, when alone with the wife he turns into a hypersexual being.

Just a thought that goes beyond the usual interpretations
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:09 PM   #124
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Wikipedia suggests: "Since the 1990s, the term has also been widely used to refer to a sexual fetish in which the fetishist is stimulated by their committed partner choosing to have sex with someone else." I believe that signals an evolution of the term to describe a wider subset of behaviors than it's original meaning.
Wiki entries can simply be written by fetishists. Circular reasoning anyone? (rolls eyes)
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:19 PM   #125
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Wikipedia suggests: "Since the 1990s, the term has also been widely used to refer to a sexual fetish in which the fetishist is stimulated by their committed partner choosing to have sex with someone else." I believe that signals an evolution of the term to describe a wider subset of behaviors than it's original meaning.

I believe the Urban Dictionary offers a more modern interpretation of the word: "A sexually inadequate husband who accepts his wife's pussy is her solely property and she alone decides which men she will fuck,even if it means denying her husband. His only access to her pussy is to clean it of the ejaculate of males she chooses to fuck." Though, again, I think that's a poor definition of the original article's use of the word.

For the statistical minded, Google offers this interest chart of its recorded usage: Link to Google graph.
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Wiki entries can simply be written by fetishists. Circular reasoning anyone? (rolls eyes)
A) While the Wikipedia system is an open system, that doesn't invalidate its information in total.
B) A visit to Wikipedia would have shown that I quoted to my point: definitions change. The beginning of Wiki's entry includes the definition you seem to prefer. To wit: "Cuckold historically referred to a husband with an adulterous wife and is still often used with this meaning. In evolutionary biology, the term cuckold is also applied to males who are unwittingly investing parental effort in offspring that are not genetically their own."
C) You clearly choose to ignore quoting my reference to the Urban Dictionary definition.

Conclusion? sr71plt exercising SELECTIVE reasoning anyone?

And before you counter-charge that I am guilty of selective reasoning by only choosing the part of the Wiki article that referenced my point (Item B) - I would suggest I was merely illustrating my larger point: definitions change with time. I would further offer the original article as an example of how definition creep happens.
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