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Old 02-13-2014, 07:49 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProxyAccount View Post
It means that the sexual usage of "snowballing" is considered slang and not generally accepted as a formal definition. Slang terms come and go. If it persists, it will eventually end up as one possible definition. In the case of "snowballing", there isn't an existing formal definition that "snowballing" conflicts with. By contrast, there is already a definition of "cuckold" used as a sexual term that wife-watching and wife-sharing fetishists' usage of "cuckold" conflicts with.
reality shapes words, words do not shape reality.

What cuckold is in real life is what is happening, no one is looking it up in the dictionary to see if they are one.

Fetishes-which this certainly is- are part of a sexual subculture that is not part of the professors of the human language and defies being quantified in simple terms.

I'm not here to argue this, but what I am saying is there is a lot to life that is not in books and does not adhere to them.

I've experienced it with more than one couple, I know it. The guy editing Webster does not.
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Old 02-13-2014, 07:51 PM   #52
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Whats funny here is my LW contest entry was an over the top parody of what Cucking has become on this site. Its pretty much the total opposite of most of what is out there in real life.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:28 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
The attitude you describe is that of the typical swinger.

I still feel a cuck is completely different.

A swinger will share his wife or sit and watch her enjoyed.

Cucking is when it gets into the humiliation (and some husbands do enjoy that) of the situation.

My theory is that cucking is a split off of BDSM in the sense that the cuck is the submissive
Agreed.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:04 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
Exactly. Find a new word rather than perverting an existing one.
We agree here.

Q: If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?
A: Four legs. Calling a tail a leg does not make it a leg.

If a subculture calls PIA (penis in anus) butt-fucking "oral sex", is it so?
If a subculture calls swinging and voyeurism 'cuckolding", is it so?
If a subculture calls human death "eternal life", is it so?

I've suggested the term "willing cuckold" vs the traditional "unwitting cuckold" but now I'll retract that suggestion. IMHO "willing cuckold" is an oxymoron, a contradiction of terms. By definition and tradition, a cuckold is unwilling. The person who WANTS their mate to fuck others may be correctly labeled in many ways, but 'cuckold' is not among them.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:12 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
When homosexuals started referring to themselves as gay did you tell them they couldn't be because that is not what the dictionary said at the time?

Yeah, I always get a kick out of classic texts from back when "gay literature" had a slightly different meaning...



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Old 02-13-2014, 09:17 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
Exactly. Find a new word rather than perverting an existing one.
And who is to say they got it right in the first place?

If the cucks are referring to themselves as that no matter what variation they are thy do not need to make up something else to make paper assholes like you happy.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:18 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by StrangeLife View Post
Yeah, I always get a kick out of classic texts from back when "gay literature" had a slightly different meaning...



I like the "pictured by"
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:24 PM   #58
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Just looked up "master" in Websters.

there is no mention in any of its definitions of it being a BDSM term.

I am now going over to the BDSM forum to tell them we all have to make up a new word.
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:12 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
reality shapes words, words do not shape reality.

What cuckold is in real life is what is happening, no one is looking it up in the dictionary to see if they are one.

Fetishes-which this certainly is- are part of a sexual subculture that is not part of the professors of the human language and defies being quantified in simple terms.

I'm not here to argue this, but what I am saying is there is a lot to life that is not in books and does not adhere to them.

I've experienced it with more than one couple, I know it. The guy editing Webster does not.
I understand what you are saying, but members of a sexual fetish subculture do not constitute the majority of individuals. What they consider to be the "correct" usage of a term has no bearing upon the fact that for the majority of cuckolds, the dictionary definition applies. Until their definition is accepted as a valid, alternative one, it is correct to consider it a misuse of the term.

http://theweek.com/article/index/241...the-dictionary

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
Just looked up "master" in Websters.

there is no mention in any of its definitions of it being a BDSM term.

I am now going over to the BDSM forum to tell them we all have to make up a new word.
How is the dictionary definition in conflict with the BDSM usage of the term? Simply put, it isn't. It might not have the detailed particulars that members of the fetish subculture might attribute to it, but are they even necessary to the term? Also consider that even amongst fetishists, there isn't 100% consensus as to the definition unless you pare it down to the dictionary definition.

Collins
master (ˈmɑːstəˈ)
Definitions
noun

1 the man in authority, such as the head of a household, the employer of servants, or the owner of slaves or animals related adjective magistral
2a a person with exceptional skill at a certain thing ⇒ "a master of the violin"
2b (as modifier) ⇒ "a master thief"
3 (often capital) a great artist, esp an anonymous but influential artist
4a a person who has complete control of a situation
4b an abstract thing regarded as having power or influence ⇒ "they regarded fate as the master of their lives"
5a a workman or craftsman fully qualified to practise his trade and to train others in it
5b (as modifier) ⇒ "master carpenter"
6a an original copy, stencil, tape, etc, from which duplicates are made
6b (as modifier) ⇒ "master copy"
7 a player of a game, esp chess or bridge, who has won a specified number of tournament games
8 the principal of some colleges
9 a highly regarded teacher or leader whose religion or philosophy is accepted by followers
10 a graduate holding a master's degree
11 the chief executive officer aboard a merchant ship
12 a person presiding over a function, organization, or institution
13 (mainly British) a male teacher
14 an officer of the Supreme Court of Judicature subordinate to a judge
15 the superior person or side in a contest
16 a machine or device that operates to control a similar one
17 (often capital) the heir apparent of a Scottish viscount or baron
18 (modifier) overall or controlling ⇒ "master plan"
19 (modifier) designating a device or mechanism that controls others ⇒ "master switch"
20 (modifier) main; principal ⇒ "master bedroom"

21 See the master

verb (transitive)

22 to become thoroughly proficient in ⇒ "to master the art of driving"
23 to overcome; defeat ⇒ "to master your emotions"
24 to rule or control as master
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:56 PM   #60
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Cool The evolution of words

Regarding the meaning of the word, I think we can agree on three things:
(1) The meaning of the word "Cuckold"—as used by Shakespeare and the dictionary—is not the one being used currently by swingers and those mentioned in the article, as that word typically means a man who doesn't know his wife is fooling around, and wouldn't be pleased if he did know—he'd be humiliated and upset.

(2) We can agree that groups take words, sometimes old or archaic words like cuckhold, and make them their own. Members of said group may have heard the word used before and so think the meaning their group has giving it is the meaning, or they may know what it means but feel it's the best word for the situation even if it's not technically accurate.

(3) Finally, I think we can agree that if the word gets used with the new/adjusted meaning frequently enough and widely enough, then it will take on that new meaning. And this will eventually be reflected in dictionaries. Just as "gay" is rarely used any longer for "happy" but is used for homosexuality. This new meaning, however, doesn't erase the old meaning. It just expands what the word can mean.

Yes?
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Old 02-14-2014, 12:38 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by 3113 View Post
(2) We can agree that groups take words, sometimes old or archaic words like cuckhold, and make them their own. Members of said group may have heard the word used before and so think the meaning their group has giving it is the meaning, or they may know what it means but feel it's the best word for the situation even if it's not technically accurate.
And the result is confusion, leading to head-butting discussions like this thread.

Most of the Anglophone world knows 'cuckold' to mean a guy whose wife cheats on him, without permission and with scorn. Anglophone fetishists seem to prefer a totally different meaning: a guy who permits his wife to screw others, possibly for his entertainment. Fetishists and traditionalists using the term 'cuckold' will not be communicating, because they're starting from different bases.

An analogy: My friends and I decide that we want to call our bicycles 'automobiles'. We talk about how lightweight our autos are, whether we prefer moly steel or carbon fibre or titanium frames, how many gear ratios are available, the best saddles, et fucking cetera. And people outside our clique don't have the slightest idea what the hell we're talking about. Communications breakdown...

Calling a tail a leg does not make it a leg. Calling a willing wimp a cuckold does not make him one.
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:09 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by 3113 View Post
Regarding the meaning of the word, I think we can agree on three things:
(1) The meaning of the word "Cuckold"—as used by Shakespeare and the dictionary—is not the one being used currently by swingers and those mentioned in the article, as that word typically means a man who doesn't know his wife is fooling around, and wouldn't be pleased if he did know—he'd be humiliated and upset.

(2) We can agree that groups take words, sometimes old or archaic words like cuckhold, and make them their own. Members of said group may have heard the word used before and so think the meaning their group has giving it is the meaning, or they may know what it means but feel it's the best word for the situation even if it's not technically accurate.

(3) Finally, I think we can agree that if the word gets used with the new/adjusted meaning frequently enough and widely enough, then it will take on that new meaning. And this will eventually be reflected in dictionaries. Just as "gay" is rarely used any longer for "happy" but is used for homosexuality. This new meaning, however, doesn't erase the old meaning. It just expands what the word can mean.

Yes?
I agree.

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Originally Posted by Hypoxia View Post
And the result is confusion, leading to head-butting discussions like this thread.

Most of the Anglophone world knows 'cuckold' to mean a guy whose wife cheats on him, without permission and with scorn. Anglophone fetishists seem to prefer a totally different meaning: a guy who permits his wife to screw others, possibly for his entertainment. Fetishists and traditionalists using the term 'cuckold' will not be communicating, because they're starting from different bases.

An analogy: My friends and I decide that we want to call our bicycles 'automobiles'. We talk about how lightweight our autos are, whether we prefer moly steel or carbon fibre or titanium frames, how many gear ratios are available, the best saddles, et fucking cetera. And people outside our clique don't have the slightest idea what the hell we're talking about. Communications breakdown...
Exactly, and this contributes to the friction between those that embrace that subculture's definition of the term and those that do not.

Quote:
Calling a tail a leg does not make it a leg. Calling a willing wimp a cuckold does not make him one.
For those that know the term as it is generally defined, yes. And it may increase the level of frustration that is felt by those that embrace that unaccepted definition because they might feel that rejecting their definition is akin to demeaning their subculture or lifestyle.
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:11 AM   #63
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I think the problem is when the subculture acts like their little slice of life is the norm and then talks like it is.
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:18 AM   #64
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Many might ostensibly desire, embrace, or even flaunt being 'outside the norm', but most of them probably want to be accepted. I think that's the case for most people. Most want the acceptance that comes with being regarded as "normal" or "typical".
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:42 AM   #65
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Or they want to define themselves as the norm, even when they are in a subculture. This same discussion has been going on on the tattoo and piercing thread. Folks there are trying to define tattoos and piercings as the norm rather than the subculture they are in, and it's not--at least not yet. They are looking around in their subculture and not realizing (or accepting) that it's a subculture, not the norm.
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:42 AM   #66
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Hopefully discussions such as this will help people understand the perspectives of those that they disagree with.

Regarding tattoos, they never appealed to me, but lots of guys got them. Some to celebrate being part of something so much bigger than themselves. Some because they wanted to fit in with their buddies. Others because they just love tattoos.

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Old 02-14-2014, 01:45 AM   #67
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Is there an echo in here?
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Old 02-14-2014, 05:49 AM   #68
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If people here who are older-say in their sixties or over-think back to how many people they saw back in their twenties/ thirties with tattoos or piercings

Then walk around now and do the same thing I think you're going to see a hell of a lot more of them as it is becoming a lot more of the norm.

However the problem is the biggest naysayer of everything on these boards

One who says Websters, not real life, dictates real life and one that is so obviously sheltered that they don't get out of their house, (and when they do I am sure hang with very similar close minded arrogant people,) and have no lue what is going on in the real world.

For such a alleged world traveler, actor, spy, singer, politician, etc.....

You're very close minded Pilot.

Then again when you're lying about all the above I guess that's what happens. Threads like this are where you show how painfully ignorant you are to what's in the world outside your basement.
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:07 AM   #69
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Using the Merriam-Webster dictionary.

Cuckold
:a man whose wife has sex with someone else : a man's whose wife commits adultery

Sex
: physical activity in which people touch each others bodies, kiss each other, etc. : physical activity that is related to and often includes sexual intercourse

Adultery
:sex between a married person and someone who is not that person's wife or husband
Diane's(my) note: Biblically speaking adulterous sex is having intercourse, which I think would be the common belief of most people today at least as far as opposite sex marriages.

Marriage
: the relationship that exists between a husband and a wife
1)the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage>

Spouse
someone who is married : a husband or wife

Husband
:a married man : the man someone is married to
:a male partner in a marriage

Wife
:a married woman : the woman someone is married to
:a female partner in a marriage

Since we needed to resort to definitions to determine who a cuckold is, I think the point I made is very clear, if a man's wife has sex with another man, no matter if he approves, disapproves or doesn't even know, he is a cuckold.

I suppose if we want to be really technical the term cuckold, at least using dictionary definitions, would equally apply if his wife had sex with another woman, although I don't think sex with another woman really meets the meaning of cuckold as originally used, no possibility of having another man's child in the husband's nest.

It might have been more interesting if this thread would have stayed with the article which PennLady so kindly linked to, instead of arguing about definitions. Call it a cuckold fetish or whatever but regardless if it makes a man angry or turns him on, he's still being cuckolded.
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:17 AM   #70
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When neuroscientists Ogi Ogas and Sai Gaddam...

Who?

Orgy Orgasm and Say Goddamn! What?
It wasn't me. Honest!
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:53 AM   #71
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See http://www.literotica.com/s/valentines-day-dinner-1. I tried to portray an exceptionally strong man accepting the price of his wife's happiness.
I did read your story, it isn't want I'd be looking for, it was for me to one sided. It didn't cover the whys and wherefores of his wife decision to open their marriage. Nor did it show his wife's love for both men, it seems to me as you've written the story the wife never did or no longer did love her husband. The truth is I saw no real justification for the wife to stay in the marriage at all and the husband's reasons were at best lame.

It was an ok read but if I'd have just picked your story at random, I wouldn't have read more than a few paragraphs. Don't feel too bad about me saying that, even with lesbian stories here at lit I only find about one in five worth reading to the end and of those I do read most aren't what you'd call good reads. Not to mention, many times the sex scene are god awful, most are nothing more than straight sex, with the exception of putting a woman in the man's place. Just like main stream lesbian porn, which either brings a giggle or an "Oh my god they just didn't do that did they" reaction.
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Old 02-14-2014, 12:36 PM   #72
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Using the Merriam-Webster dictionary.
Since we needed to resort to definitions to determine who a cuckold is, I think the point I made is very clear, if a man's wife has sex with another man, no matter if he approves, disapproves or doesn't even know, he is a cuckold.
That's a perfectly valid general definition as it would apply to all cuckolds, whether they are part of the cuckold fetish subculture or not. That would also apply to definitions that use the term adultery as opposed to unfaithfulness, which focuses on the legal aspect, whether civil, social, or religious.

Merriam-Webster
adultery
: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband; also : an act of adultery

unfaithful
: not faithful:
a : not adhering to vows, allegiance, or duty : disloyal <an unfaithful friend>
b : not faithful to marriage vows <suspected her husband of being unfaithful>
c : inaccurate, untrustworthy <an unfaithful copy of a document>

Quote:
I suppose if we want to be really technical the term cuckold, at least using dictionary definitions, would equally apply if his wife had sex with another woman, although I don't think sex with another woman really meets the meaning of cuckold as originally used, no possibility of having another man's child in the husband's nest.
Yes, that goes back to the origin of the term, the cuckoo. So as it follows with regards to "best fit", the risk of pregnancy is implied, both with regards to the cuckold and cucquean (the husband impregnating another woman). However, probably due to modern birth-control, that issue is not emphasized in current definitions.

Quote:
It might have been more interesting if this thread would have stayed with the article which PennLady so kindly linked to, instead of arguing about definitions.
It's interesting from a sociological standpoint, but the definition issue needed to be hammered out.

Quote:
Call it a cuckold fetish or whatever but regardless if it makes a man angry or turns him on, he's still being cuckolded.
I can agree with that, but the sharing and voyeurism aspects are still not part of the definition.
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Old 02-14-2014, 12:57 PM   #73
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So long story short according to a couple of people here we are supposed to live by a dictionary. So the authority on things is a bunch of researchers who spend their time behind a desk

The people who actually live the lifestyle have no authority to call themselves what they choose.

Desk jockeys with no clue over ride the people with actual experience?

This is an erotica site not a vocabulary test

The people who think life works according to dictionary and text books have no place telling people who live life what they should call themselves.

Yet here they are on what is pretty much a sex site.

You bookworm posers can keep your websters the rest of us will live actual lives.
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:07 PM   #74
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The only people who really care how the term "cuckold" is defined are those outside of the lifestyle, and for some odd reason, it is a big deal to them. It's so weird that those outside of a subculture are so desperately intimidated by what goes on inside the subculture. And therein is where the real problem lies.

SR71PLT wrote, "I am particularly dismissive of any efforts to connect it with the man wanting his wife to be happy. That sounds like the wife's rationalizing perspective of what's going on."

To have made that statement makes it abundantly clear that he (he?) doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. Him telling me what constitutes cuckolding is like a rich, white kid in Salt Lake City trying to tell Gucci Mane what constitutes rap. It's preposterous.

Argue all you want. I thought it might be of interest to some of you to hear what the major portion of the Southeast and Vegas refers to as a "cuckold." I was wrong in thinking that my experience might be of value.
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:12 PM   #75
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I think, rather, Littlecobra, that you're the one speaking from a very small subculture and thinking it's the whole world. Fine, you're the one who is isolated in a small, artificial world.
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