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Old 03-05-2014, 04:23 PM   #226
Dyslexicea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PennLady View Post
And yes, the humiliation could factor in even if those men don't realize it. I wouldn't say otherwise. All I am saying is that it seems some men are into this idea for other reasons, and humiliation is not one of them.
I'm not disagreeing with you, from what little research I've done, the last few days, humiliation doesn't seem to be the primary motivation at all.

One thing I did read was among professionals years ago was this desire had to do with a man seeing his wife merely as a sexual object or he had latent homosexual desires both of those views while still listed as possible reason have for the most part been discredit for most men. But I do think for some of these men bisexuality may play a role, even if he won't admit it to himself.
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:24 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by littlecordelera View Post
That doesn't jibe with your statement that a "cuckold = man you cannot respect, since he's not man enough to hold onto his wife and stop her going elsewhere." Right? "Stop her from going elsewhere" is control.

Not to mention, if there are cracks in the relationship and she goes elsewhere anyway, then that would alleviate the guy from any responsibility of being "man enough to hold onto his wife." Unless it is only the guy's responsibility to prevent any cracks in the relationship.

So based on what you wrote, I don't think I jumped to conclusions. The predominate attitude is just what you initially wrote: "cuckold = man you cannot respect, since he's not man enough to hold onto his wife and stop her going elsewhere."
Oh god.

No, you reading in more than I said. You've taken a statement I made and made it something I believe, and are responding to it that way, which is not how it's written at all.

This statement "cuckold = man you cannot respect, since he's not man enough to hold onto his wife and stop her going elsewhere." Right? " Is not something I believe. It's a statement about how jocks and others who think more with muscles than with their brain think. It's about unthinking perception that a man who cannot stop his wife from needing someone elses cock respond.

Of course you've just jumped to conclusions. I'm attempting to explain that there are people out there who get off on this. I'm attempting to explain that the popular use of a word is not necessarily it's limited meaning according to a dictionary - particular not with it's use on Lit.

You keep trying to trap and crack some kind of code, or prove some kind of syntactical snafu. It's not like that at all.

One more time.

There are men who get off on their wives fucking someone else. There are men who do not, and/or are unware of what their wives are doing.

Both fall under the popular usage of the word cuckold.

It's not about control, or men trying to force anything. It's about a respectful relationship, back and forth between a husband and wife. If you keep insisting that I'm trying to purvey anything else, well, that's wrong, because I'm not.

It's not about me controlling my wife, but providing her with a relationship that is strong enough and she respects me enough that she does not run around with other guys.

If you think that's about control, then yeah, there are radical fem issues there, and there's little point in talking, since radical fems have never been the worlds best listeners. I think trying to get your wife to respect you is not about control, but about equability in a relationship. If you don't have respect, you don't have faith and trust. And you don't have a relationship - you have the appearance of one.
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:25 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by PennLady View Post
I could be wrong, but I'm going to try reframing this a little, because I think you're misinterpreting. I think this is what jezzaz means (but correct if I'm wrong).

Example: Abe is married to Becky. Charlie is married to Darlene. The couples are friends. Abe discovers Darlene is cheating on Charlie, and Charlie doesn't know. Abe now *sees* Charlie as a cuckold, and lacks respect for Charlie because *Abe feels* Charlie is not man enough to sexually satisfy his wife, which would stop her from going elsewhere, because if Charlie could satisfy her, she wouldn't feel the need to have sex with someone else.

This is more a statement about Abe's reaction to the situation than anything else, and especially not about Charlie's or Darlene's, who are directly involved. Abe sees Charlie as less of a man because Charlie is (apparently) not sexually satisfying his wife. If Darlene was satisfied, that would "stop her from going elsewhere."



No, it certainly isn't. And yes, if the relationship is failing in other areas, then probably no amount of bedroom play would stop either spouse from having an affair.

So Abe is a dick. A narrow-minded dick who makes assumptions in circumstances about which he knows nothing. He is also rather dumb for not knowing that there are a multitude of reasons why people cheat. Maybe Charlie is the world's greatest stud and Darlene is getting back at him for all his cheating and now Charlie is the only one discrete enough not to judge or shoot his mouth off.

Implausible? Maybe, but at least as plausible as the presumption that the whole situation boils down to Charlie's lovemaking prowess.
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:46 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by policywank View Post
So Abe is a dick. A narrow-minded dick who makes assumptions in circumstances about which he knows nothing. He is also rather dumb for not knowing that there are a multitude of reasons why people cheat. Maybe Charlie is the world's greatest stud and Darlene is getting back at him for all his cheating and now Charlie is the only one discrete enough not to judge or shoot his mouth off.
Well I never said Abe wasn't a dick. See this is the problem -- the more we try to refine our meanings on this thread, and referring to what other people say, the more it all gets mixed up.

I thought jezzaz was saying something other than what people were taking away from it, and my example was meant to clarify that. What I was really going for is in fact what you say -- that in a relationship involving extramarital sex, the outsider doesn't know what's going on, and they make assumptions.

You could be quite right in what you say about the situation, but the truth is a lot of guys (and probably women too) would read it the way Abe does. And probably many of those guys are the ones who leave such awful comments in LW.
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:56 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by PennLady View Post
Well I never said Abe wasn't a dick. See this is the problem -- the more we try to refine our meanings on this thread, and referring to what other people say, the more it all gets mixed up.

I thought jezzaz was saying something other than what people were taking away from it, and my example was meant to clarify that. What I was really going for is in fact what you say -- that in a relationship involving extramarital sex, the outsider doesn't know what's going on, and they make assumptions.

You could be quite right in what you say about the situation, but the truth is a lot of guys (and probably women too) would read it the way Abe does. And probably many of those guys are the ones who leave such awful comments in LW.
What she said.
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:01 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by PennLady View Post
Well I never said Abe wasn't a dick. See this is the problem -- the more we try to refine our meanings on this thread, and referring to what other people say, the more it all gets mixed up.

I thought jezzaz was saying something other than what people were taking away from it, and my example was meant to clarify that. What I was really going for is in fact what you say -- that in a relationship involving extramarital sex, the outsider doesn't know what's going on, and they make assumptions.

You could be quite right in what you say about the situation, but the truth is a lot of guys (and probably women too) would read it the way Abe does. And probably many of those guys are the ones who leave such awful comments in LW.

Indeed lots of people will make that assumption. The corollary to this assertion put forward by several people in this thread is that the only reason women ever cheat is because their husband isn't "man enough" or somehow is doing his husbandly duties. I am not saying this is never the case, but it is just juvenile to put forward the notion that this is always the case.

It's like saying "all men are pigs." If that helps you feel better in a time of distress, fine but for goodness sakes open your eyes to the fact that it isn't literally true.
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:09 PM   #232
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This thread is now resembling the comments section of a loving wives story.

Seriously. This one is a dickhead if he does this, this one is a real man this one is not this woman is a hot wife, this woman is a cheat....

Touchy subject here.

Starting to wonder who here has been cheated on that it can't be let go.
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:15 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by jezzaz View Post
Oh god.

No, you reading in more than I said. You've taken a statement I made and made it something I believe, and are responding to it that way, which is not how it's written at all.
I responded to your post by stating "the predominate attitude is just what you initially wrote..."

How does my statement "the predominate attitude" become a declaration of something you believe?

jezzaz, with all due respect, I'm not the one jumping to conclusions.
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:22 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
I know a lot of guys who think its the "real men" who cheat and guys like me who keep their dick at home aren't "man enough"

When it comes to this people will spin the definition to suit them pure and simple.
I don't think the point is about guys thinking other men who cheat or even men who are not married and are slut, far more men are slut than women, are Real Men. I think most of us realize that is how many men think, even men who themselves would never cheat.

It's more men looking down on other men who've been cheated on, as if they're somehow inadequate and not manly, along with men thinking men who have a desire for their wife/girlfriend to have sex with other men also being inadequate and not manly.

I just don't see life that way, on either account. Like I've already said I believe at times cheating can be justified but even so it's still a violation of trust.

Jessica and I do have sex with others but it's always together, on the rare occasions it's another couple but most of the time it's with close single friends. If either one of us went outside of that limit by having sex with someone alone it would be cheating and a violation of trust. You may see this as strange but we both understand mixing sex with someone who we have an outside relationship with, is a risk to our relationship and neither one of us wants to have that kind of grief and pain nor do we want to inflict on the other.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:48 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Dyslexicea View Post
What your advocating is to do more psychological harm, assuming actual psychological harm, by referring to him as a cuckold. In short you are saying he's not a 'real man' because he couldn't satisfy nor could he control his wife, which puts all the blame for his wife's cheating on him.
In the absolute sense, the word itself is not denigrating to the person that it happened to. Some might have that view, but to me, it simply a descriptor of what is and what happened to them. And where in the hell are you getting the notion that I am saying that a man that has been cuckolded is "not a 'real man'"? Way to go with the straw-man argument.

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Not only is that wrong, it is a patriarchal view of life, the man has control of his wife. I assure you women do have a free will and we do decide our own actions.
Interestingly enough, there are plenty of men and women that effectively believe that you make those marital vows, you are concluding a social contract that includes an exclusivity agreement. So it can be considered reasonable for many to believe that they do have some control over their spouse. It's certainly not a view restricted to 'patriarchs' because I know plenty of women who would swear that they do have some degree of control over their husbands. Hell, I know plenty of women that would swear that they have some degree of control over their boyfriends. I think that when people commit to one another, they do cede some level of control. The degree of control that people have (or think that they have) over their partner might vary, but when you make the happiness of someone a supposedly permanent part of your life, you probably do give up some control of your own happiness to that person.

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None of you 'real men' can truly know if you've been cheated on and I assure you many of you 'real men' have been cheated on and are never going to know.
Statistically speaking, most incidents of cheating are never caught... but the risk is there and millions of cheaters pay the price every year, usually in the form of guilt, sadness and more unhappiness, but also in the form of divorce.

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The paradigms you've used are as illogical as your argument, a woman can be a 'rape victim' and at the same time 'a survivor of rape', not all women survive rape, even if they're still alive after the rape, the terms survivor of rape or survivor of sexual violence is very meaningful to those who have survived and I assure you it is important to the survivors and helps with physiologically healing.
I'm going to repeat what I wrote in case you simply overlooked it.
"A beating is a beating and the person is a battered person. Not merely a "survivor of domestic violence", but a battered man or woman. A raped person is a raped individual, not a "survivor of sexual assault". A murder is a murder and those that are murdered are murdered men or women, not simply "deceased"."

Nowhere did I say that it was mutually exclusive. You can survive something, but what was done to you was just as bad whether you survived or not. Using euphemisms might help people forget what was done, but from my perspective, it does no good to use them. The person that suffered will continue to remember what happened. I see no benefit in pussy-footing around with political-correctness so that someone's sensibilities aren't going to be offended.

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The same goes for domestic violence survivors. You might like the term 'battered woman', cut the crap no one uses 'battered person' nor do they use the term 'battered man'. By the way the term 'domestic violence' covers a much broader spectrum than 'battered woman', domestic violence doesn't mean just physical violence.
It's interesting that you not only can't find research studies and surveys, you can't use a search engine. If it wasn't for the fact that you are posting online, I would wonder if you had internet access.

http://www.whbw.org/
http://www.bwjp org/ (You're kidding? "j"+"p"+".org" is censored?)
http://www.paulmones.com/areas-of-pr...cheinder-case/
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-03-...erson-syndrome
https://www.rainn.org/get-informatio...woman-syndrome
http://www.dailydemocrat.com/ci_2436...battered-women
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/04...ives-in-china/
http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/-P...210750191.html
http://lubbockonline.com/news/120696/judge.htm
http://www.whas11.com/news/indiana/M...245953971.html
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/...14-hayek_x.htm
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/calling-all-battered-women/
http://www.clintonherald.com/ilnews/...news-cameraman
http://ncfm.org/2009/10/action/ncfm-...red-men-in-wv/
http://www.fact.on.ca/news/news0106/sa010615.htm

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Old 03-05-2014, 09:31 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Dyslexicea View Post
I don't think the point is about guys thinking other men who cheat or even men who are not married and are slut, far more men are slut than women, are Real Men. I think most of us realize that is how many men think, even men who themselves would never cheat.
As reinforced by the stats that have been posted in this thread, it's clear that if one gender has the most "sluts", it's the male gender. Those that regard cheating, regardless of the gender, as making that person a 'real man' or woman (a perusal of recent videos are suggestive of it as an expression of feminine sexuality), are likely immature. Yet, none of those individuals have made an appearance on this thread, so I'm not sure what beating that particular horse is accomplishing.

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It's more men looking down on other men who've been cheated on, as if they're somehow inadequate and not manly,
I'm pretty sure that Lovercraft86 was being sarcastic:
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Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
You know why there is no derogatory name for men who cheat?

because its no big deal if they do. They are expected to and the wife is expected to tolerate it.

When the women do it they're seen with scorn and the man must be seen with scorn as well because no real man would let his wife cheat.

real men do the cheating, get it?

In reality real men keep it within their marriage and their wives do as well because a real man can satisfy their wife.

Men who cheat losers who still think their worth is determined in how many women they can lay. Men who cheat are sleazy cowards who think its funny to fuck another man's wife.

Oh, wait, sorry men who cheat are heroes and studs.

I forgot what type of site I'm on. Can't make all the real men here uncomfortable.
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I just don't see life that way, on either account. Like I've already said I believe at times cheating can be justified but even so it's still a violation of trust.
People can 'justify' anything to themselves, including theft, rape, and murder. If you want to break the contract, tell your partner that you want out and end the relationship.

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Jessica and I do have sex with others but it's always together, on the rare occasions it's another couple but most of the time it's with close single friends. If either one of us went outside of that limit by having sex with someone alone it would be cheating and a violation of trust. You may see this as strange but we both understand mixing sex with someone who we have an outside relationship with, is a risk to our relationship and neither one of us wants to have that kind of grief and pain nor do we want to inflict on the other.
And if you two agreed to it, that's fine for you two. Nobody is arguing otherwise, even if it isn't the preference of others.
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Old 03-06-2014, 08:43 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
This thread is now resembling the comments section of a loving wives story.

Seriously. This one is a dickhead if he does this, this one is a real man this one is not this woman is a hot wife, this woman is a cheat....

Touchy subject here.

Starting to wonder who here has been cheated on that it can't be let go.

Oh please, you are one of the worst perpetrators of simplistic judgmental comments.

Just like this thread, the comments sections of loving wives story are chock full of people making judgments on the characters and whether the story is in the right category. When it comes to certain topics some people simply can't live and let live. At least here the people participating in the thread know there is going to be a debate about there merits of various perspectives.

And yes I did cheat, repeatedly. I felt bad, we made up and moved on. We do not have a perfect arrangement, but we are together, communicating and happy.
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Old 03-06-2014, 03:19 PM   #238
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Oh please, you are one of the worst perpetrators of simplistic judgmental comments.
Amen to that. So two-faced.
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:08 PM   #239
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Interesting!

'I Cheated And It Turned My Husband On'

Evidently there are times cheating can make a couples sex life better.

Any comments?
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Old 03-08-2014, 09:04 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Dyslexicea View Post
Interesting!

'I Cheated And It Turned My Husband On'

Evidently there are times cheating can make a couples sex life better.

Any comments?

Absolutely. The world is full of different perspectives. The notion of infidelity and the anxiety and sexual tension it brings are heightened when the activities are not condoned - real life is more exciting than role play.

It is the same with domination. It is all the more valid when the dominated did not consent in advance.

However, it is only a small step from there to non-consent. You wouldn't force yourself on a woman because you thought she was into it but wanted to have it forced upon her.

Don't fuck around on your spouse in the hopes it will turn them on. Consider the possibilities and talk about them. Explore your deepest desires but don't role the dice with your and someone else's life.

I say this from a point of experience and hypocrisy. I don't claim to have behaved better.
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Old 03-12-2014, 02:13 PM   #241
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Cuckolded: Why Do So Many Men Fantasize About Their Wives Cheating on Them?

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Based on my reading of the science, cuckold fantasies appear to be a normative male sexual desire. But should men act upon such fantasies? Ley warns that "these fantasies draw upon powerful emotions and social programming that shouldn't be treated casually or without careful thought." Bringing other people into your bed has the potential to affect your sex life and marriage in ways both good and bad after the action stops—a reality which porn videos have the luxury of avoiding.
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Old 07-28-2014, 03:43 PM   #242
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:48 AM   #243
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I'm sorry I didn't see this discussion earlier.

Some of you seem to be bogged down by the traditional definition of the word "cuckold". I prefer the term "cuckold fetishism" to describe the internet age phenomenon of men wanting to share their wives with other men.

The hotwife/slutwife wasn't mentioned much in this discussion, but the cuckoldress is an important part of this issue. The cuckoldress is essentially the town bicycle, meaning everybody gets to ride. I have nothing against the town bicycle, in fact I've ridden the town bicycle in the past and enjoyed it very much.

That being said, I don't want to own the town bicycle.

I have zero respect for cuckold fetishists. I think they are either submissive men who enjoy being humiliated, or closeted bisexual/gay men who are getting off on watching the other man more than watching their wife.
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Old 07-30-2014, 10:50 AM   #244
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WHAT is the new WHY?

Just like so many articles where some supposed PHd is describing something... This article is titled with the word "why" in it, but really only tells "what".

As for the the definition of cuckold, here is what I found when I first encountered that word many years ago and did some research on its meaning.

A cuckold is a husband that knows his wife is getting sexual gratification outside of their marriage, but continues to live with and support his wife in every other way (mainly financially).

Yeah, so it's a "husband who's wife is cheating", but there is a bit more to it. A true cuckold has knowledge of his wife's cheating and does virtually nothing about it.
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