Old 01-11-2014, 01:49 AM   #26
todski28
Literotica Guru
 
todski28 is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashesh9 View Post
Artic Vortex took New York by storm , snow'n ice : chilled surprise !
apparently balls float in oceans stream, currents in some vivid dream
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 02:43 AM   #27
Tsotha
donnyQ
 
Tsotha's Avatar
 
Tsotha is offline
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,462
I don't want her body, but the part she doesn't share, her mind, her heart — her.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 02:51 AM   #28
todski28
Literotica Guru
 
todski28 is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,342
prefer her in her sweat pants, hair a mess, beautiful in honesty
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 06:41 AM   #29
Ashesh9
Literotica Guru
 
Ashesh9 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 539
Smile what if ??!

Quote:
Originally Posted by todski28 View Post
prefer her in her sweat pants, hair a mess, beautiful in honesty
what about bent over : her Gluteus Maximus outlined in glorious definition / musculature !!?
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 08:03 AM   #30
Catharyn
Really Experienced
 
Catharyn is offline
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Where I want to be.
Posts: 205
I worry for you, on the road to no where; say you'll return to me.
__________________
"And miles to go, before I sleep." - Frost
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 11:33 AM   #31
Angeline
Poet Chick
 
Angeline's Avatar
 
Angeline is offline
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 24,249
What a great form, Tzara. Thanks for the lesson.
__________________
Misterioso

Poems
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 11:53 AM   #32
butters
Harry's Girl
 
butters's Avatar
 
butters is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London UK
Posts: 51,771
yeah, thanks Tz

i do have one small concern about this as a form, in the same way as - i suppose - i have over haiku: people might use the syllabic count of the form simpy to fit something into that's lacking in poetic-ness or flies in direct disregard except for count. what, specifically, would you say identifes the poetic quality we should look for in American Sentences and is it (as usual) mostly just about our own reactions/interpretations?

i tried one, but whether or not it's a poem i honestly wouldn't like to say.

now having just read angie's 1-30, that works as poetry for me.
__________________
poetry submissions


What strange machinery lies between her ears
HarryHill


'tender hearted...
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 12:07 PM   #33
Angeline
Poet Chick
 
Angeline's Avatar
 
Angeline is offline
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 24,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by butters View Post
yeah, thanks Tz

i do have one small concern about this as a form, in the same way as - i suppose - i have over haiku: people might use the syllabic count of the form simpy to fit something into that's lacking in poetic-ness or flies in direct disregard except for count. what, specifically, would you say identifes the poetic quality we should look for in American Sentences and is it (as usual) mostly just about our own reactions/interpretations?

i tried one, but whether or not it's a poem i honestly wouldn't like to say.

now having just read angie's 1-30, that works as poetry for me.
Thanks.

For me, it helps to think of it as haiku, as having similar elements beyond the syllable count. But like any form, the trick is to transcend the form so that what the reader takes away from it is a poem and not a form. That's always the hard part!
__________________
Misterioso

Poems
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 12:17 PM   #34
butters
Harry's Girl
 
butters's Avatar
 
butters is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London UK
Posts: 51,771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeline View Post
Thanks.

For me, it helps to think of it as haiku, as having similar elements beyond the syllable count. But like any form, the trick is to transcend the form so that what the reader takes away from it is a poem and not a form. That's always the hard part!
that's the thing, angie - when i was first introduced to haiku, i was told that it could range from your 5-7-5 s.c, to 2-3-2 beats per line, or almost any variant so long as the s.c or b.c remained constant over the whole thing - and this included the one long line, like an exhalation of breath. what i'm trying to get at here, clumsily, is 'is this a sort of bastardised haiku - inasmuch as count and presentation over one line but without the other parameters a ku would demand?' was Kerouac just extrapolating in a cheaty kind of way? can i ask such questions?
__________________
poetry submissions


What strange machinery lies between her ears
HarryHill


'tender hearted...
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 12:32 PM   #35
Angeline
Poet Chick
 
Angeline's Avatar
 
Angeline is offline
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 24,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by butters View Post
that's the thing, angie - when i was first introduced to haiku, i was told that it could range from your 5-7-5 s.c, to 2-3-2 beats per line, or almost any variant so long as the s.c or b.c remained constant over the whole thing - and this included the one long line, like an exhalation of breath. what i'm trying to get at here, clumsily, is 'is this a sort of bastardised haiku - inasmuch as count and presentation over one line but without the other parameters a ku would demand?' was Kerouac just extrapolating in a cheaty kind of way? can i ask such questions?
I did a little bit of reading (just a little), but the sense I got is that Ginsberg was trying to find an American counterpart to the haiku which he thought (wisely imho) doesn't work in English. So on the one hand he wanted to condense (and if you think of what he usually wrote--the big long Whitmanesque poems--this is big-time condensing for him). On the other hand when you have 17 syllables coming at you in one line, it *is* like a big rush of breath. So maybe it is a sort of bastardized haiku, but one that is well suited to American idioms and vernacular, I think. If that makes sense.
__________________
Misterioso

Poems
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 12:52 PM   #36
butters
Harry's Girl
 
butters's Avatar
 
butters is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London UK
Posts: 51,771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeline View Post
I did a little bit of reading (just a little), but the sense I got is that Ginsberg was trying to find an American counterpart to the haiku which he thought (wisely imho) doesn't work in English. So on the one hand he wanted to condense (and if you think of what he usually wrote--the big long Whitmanesque poems--this is big-time condensing for him). On the other hand when you have 17 syllables coming at you in one line, it *is* like a big rush of breath. So maybe it is a sort of bastardized haiku, but one that is well suited to American idioms and vernacular, I think. If that makes sense.
thankyou! yes, that makes perfect sense and now i have a grasp of the concept if it's as you believe. see? i just needed someone explaining it to me in simple terms
__________________
poetry submissions


What strange machinery lies between her ears
HarryHill


'tender hearted...
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 01:08 PM   #37
Angeline
Poet Chick
 
Angeline's Avatar
 
Angeline is offline
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 24,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by butters View Post
thankyou! yes, that makes perfect sense and now i have a grasp of the concept if it's as you believe. see? i just needed someone explaining it to me in simple terms
Lol. See what Tzara thinks, I may be totally misconstruing it.

I found this helpful, but there's a lot more info about them on the web.
__________________
Misterioso

Poems
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 01:08 PM   #38
UnderYourSpell
Gerund Whore
 
UnderYourSpell's Avatar
 
UnderYourSpell is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 12,787
Tremendously hirsute maybe, I love him all the same; dog that is.
__________________

Blessed are the cracked for it is they that let in the light
They say a smile is a gift which is free to the giver and precious to the recipient.
But giving the finger is free, too, and I find it more personal and sincere.
If at first you don't succeed....skydiving is not for you ....
If you don't pay your exorcist .... do you get repossessed?
I shall always decide not to decide, unless of course I decide to change my mind.
....But I, being poor, have only my dreams, I have spread my dreams under your feet,Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.......
Nil Caborundum illigitimi
Sestina slut
Annie submits
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 01:10 PM   #39
Angeline
Poet Chick
 
Angeline's Avatar
 
Angeline is offline
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 24,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderYourSpell View Post
Tremendously hirsute maybe, I love him all the same; dog that is.
Love! That's a very "Annie" American sentence.
__________________
Misterioso

Poems
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 02:46 PM   #40
bogusagain
Literotica Guru
 
bogusagain's Avatar
 
bogusagain is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Berlin
Posts: 825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzara View Post
Oh, hey, bogus (everybody else can ignore this post which, since this is my thread should be OK to drop in here), I've been meaning to ask you if you know the work of Franz von Stuck. His house, near Munich (Villa Stuck) is a museum. There's a fairly significant exhibition of his work here in Seattle right now (the curator of the Frye Art Museum here used to be curator at the Villa Stuck), and I really enjoyed the exhibit. Art Nouveau/Secession stuff--quite stylized, lots of gold leaf, reminds me a bit of Klimt, and his darker stuff of Böcklin.

You're the only artist I know, and that only through the coincidence of social media. This work quite resonated with me and I was curious what you thought about it, if you'd seen it.

No matter if you've not.
I know his work and have seen some of it, not as much as I would like. In my younger more ideological days when white cuboids where the height of artistic integrity I would have dismissed him out of hand as a decadent symbolist, a decorator of bourgeois lounges, a poor man's Gustav Klimt. However, time and age has cured me and now I see art like music. It's valid to enjoy work across the entire spectrum. I still see much of his work as decadent but as I've grown older, I've grown to enjoy decadence. Sensuality is so utterly decadent and sexy, how could not someone of my age not get a warm sensation from it? He is definitely not up to the skills and techniques and vision of Klimt. He also failed to develop when artists like Schiele and Kokoschka moved the game on. For me he is in the chasing pack of artists of the time but I do enjoy him. Maybe my change of heart could be something to do with the zeitgeist (over here) because if you look at the work of artists like Iris van Dongen and Juul Kraijer, decadence and symbolism are definitely back in vogue.
__________________
POEMS

Last edited by bogusagain : 01-11-2014 at 02:50 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 03:15 PM   #41
bogusagain
Literotica Guru
 
bogusagain's Avatar
 
bogusagain is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Berlin
Posts: 825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzara View Post

Is it considered good form in Europe to pinch the beer of your date's father? I would think that might generate some (slight, at least) ill will.

As for her boyfriend's culture, you can (and I assume are) going to "beat" it into him.

I know, I know. Bad pun.

The man's walking a tight line. I visited him the other week (my daughter's in Japan for a year) and the apartment was a dump and he was out of beer so I took him out for a beer. He chose the dearest beer in the house, Westmal Tripel at €7,50 500ml. I asked him since when had he been drinking Westmal Tripel, Heineken at €4,00 500ml used to be his normal poison. He said ever since I said it was my bill tonight. I think our relationship is getting too familiar. Literally Beating culture into him doesn't always seem a bad idea!

What I should have thought about before I decided to beat culture into him, was my books disappearing. I guess I only have myself to blame!
__________________
POEMS
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 04:52 PM   #42
corndog_
Really Really Experienced
 
corndog_'s Avatar
 
corndog_ is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 369
Bedroom Gymnastics

Despite the high degree of difficulty our dog is unimpressed.
__________________
As a matter of fact, I do have a stick up my butt.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 06:02 PM   #43
UnderYourSpell
Gerund Whore
 
UnderYourSpell's Avatar
 
UnderYourSpell is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 12,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeline View Post
Love! That's a very "Annie" American sentence.
It'd have to be a dog, I can't abide hairy backs on men!
__________________

Blessed are the cracked for it is they that let in the light
They say a smile is a gift which is free to the giver and precious to the recipient.
But giving the finger is free, too, and I find it more personal and sincere.
If at first you don't succeed....skydiving is not for you ....
If you don't pay your exorcist .... do you get repossessed?
I shall always decide not to decide, unless of course I decide to change my mind.
....But I, being poor, have only my dreams, I have spread my dreams under your feet,Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.......
Nil Caborundum illigitimi
Sestina slut
Annie submits
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 06:13 PM   #44
Angeline
Poet Chick
 
Angeline's Avatar
 
Angeline is offline
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 24,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderYourSpell View Post
It'd have to be a dog, I can't abide hairy backs on men!
Me neither, actually.
__________________
Misterioso

Poems
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 09:45 PM   #45
Tzara
Formal
 
Tzara's Avatar
 
Tzara is offline
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 6,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderYourSpell View Post
It'd have to be a dog, I can't abide hairy backs on men!
That's only sixteen syllables.
__________________
It's very exasperating when you can't get it right.
—Donald Judd
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 09:51 PM   #46
Tzara
Formal
 
Tzara's Avatar
 
Tzara is offline
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 6,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by butters View Post
i do have one small concern about this as a form, in the same way as - i suppose - i have over haiku: people might use the syllabic count of the form simply to fit something into that's lacking in poeticness or flies in direct disregard except for count. what, specifically, would you say identifes the poetic quality we should look for in American Sentences and is it (as usual) mostly just about our own reactions/interpretations?
The same problem as all forms, all free verse. The sentence has to be a poem.

And we haven't had a lot of success defining that.

So think of it as a form that a lot of folks write a lot of dreck in (including, of course, me), and that occasionally someone writes something quite brilliant in.

Poetry is difficult. Form seems to sometimes make it easy, but it's not.
__________________
It's very exasperating when you can't get it right.
—Donald Judd
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 10:19 PM   #47
UnderYourSpell
Gerund Whore
 
UnderYourSpell's Avatar
 
UnderYourSpell is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 12,787
In the pocket of an old raincoat, I found a handful of regrets
.
.
as opposed to dry dog biscuits which is more usually the norm!
__________________

Blessed are the cracked for it is they that let in the light
They say a smile is a gift which is free to the giver and precious to the recipient.
But giving the finger is free, too, and I find it more personal and sincere.
If at first you don't succeed....skydiving is not for you ....
If you don't pay your exorcist .... do you get repossessed?
I shall always decide not to decide, unless of course I decide to change my mind.
....But I, being poor, have only my dreams, I have spread my dreams under your feet,Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.......
Nil Caborundum illigitimi
Sestina slut
Annie submits

Last edited by UnderYourSpell : 01-11-2014 at 10:23 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2014, 10:19 PM   #48
UnderYourSpell
Gerund Whore
 
UnderYourSpell's Avatar
 
UnderYourSpell is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 12,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzara View Post
That's only sixteen syllables.
rofl
__________________

Blessed are the cracked for it is they that let in the light
They say a smile is a gift which is free to the giver and precious to the recipient.
But giving the finger is free, too, and I find it more personal and sincere.
If at first you don't succeed....skydiving is not for you ....
If you don't pay your exorcist .... do you get repossessed?
I shall always decide not to decide, unless of course I decide to change my mind.
....But I, being poor, have only my dreams, I have spread my dreams under your feet,Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.......
Nil Caborundum illigitimi
Sestina slut
Annie submits
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-12-2014, 02:35 AM   #49
champagne1982
Dangerous Liaison
 
champagne1982's Avatar
 
champagne1982 is offline
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashesh9 View Post
Artic Vortex took New York by storm , snow'n ice : chilled surprise !
Global warming deniers all say "Arctic vortex."
__________________
Get Carrie'd away.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-12-2014, 12:49 PM   #50
Ashesh9
Literotica Guru
 
Ashesh9 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 539
Talking Rejoinder-sentence

Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne1982 View Post
Global warming deniers all say "Arctic vortex."
We do not deny warming : global , local or otherwise !?!
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:53 AM.

Copyright 1998-2013 Literotica Online. Literotica is a registered trademark.