Old 11-29-2017, 06:46 PM   #76
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Like where can you be sure of an American Dollar exchange? Most of these exchanges say "approved currency" exchanges. People I know have trouble exchanging for Dollars, hence my question, where exactly?Say, in the United States?
Oh it is not like money not yet. Mark Cuban is correct; dont buy it if you will miss it if it is all lost.

I bought mine cheap most of it, but today it is worth crazy amount.

Coinbase is good, but Square will soon be easier i think.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:23 AM   #77
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.....

Untrusted 3rd Party exchanges are required to fulfill KYC/AML requirements. The above Judgement isn't directed at specific individuals/accounts - it's a blanket order for ALL individuals/accounts that satisfy the federal government's described criteria.

This is all about the federal government believing there are a bunch of cryptocurrency exchange buyers/traders who aren't remitting to them federal taxes due. So, now the Court has agreed to their totally wide-open fishing expedition on Coinbase.

Bitcoin was created upon its very own blockchain, on which no untrusted 3rd Partys are necessary, nor does hosting a Bitcoin full node on your own computer require any KYC/AML concern at all.

Trustless. Permissionless. Immutable. Decentralized. Peer-to-Peer. Software.

Bitcoin wasn't created and doesn't exist for lazy, crony capitalist, $whore speculators. Not everyone is cut-out to step-up and be their own INDIVIDUAL banker/bank.

For the slackers, there will always remain the statist perils of untrusted 3rd Partys to charge them handsomely to act as their go-between, and always happy to cough them up when their crony capitalist bro gmen come calling for their cut, too.
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:20 AM   #78
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The Dutch tulip market had a great run-up for awhile too.
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:46 AM   #79
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PayPal as well. Not a problem for people who are legitimate, yes?

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Originally Posted by Unabatable View Post
.....

Untrusted 3rd Party exchanges are required to fulfill KYC/AML requirements. The above Judgement isn't directed at specific individuals/accounts - it's a blanket order for ALL individuals/accounts that satisfy the federal government's described criteria.

This is all about the federal government believing there are a bunch of cryptocurrency exchange buyers/traders who aren't remitting to them federal taxes due. So, now the Court has agreed to their totally wide-open fishing expedition on Coinbase.

Bitcoin was created upon its very own blockchain, on which no untrusted 3rd Partys are necessary, nor does hosting a Bitcoin full node on your own computer require any KYC/AML concern at all.

Trustless. Permissionless. Immutable. Decentralized. Peer-to-Peer. Software.

Bitcoin wasn't created and doesn't exist for lazy, crony capitalist, $whore speculators. Not everyone is cut-out to step-up and be their own INDIVIDUAL banker/bank.

For the slackers, there will always remain the statist perils of untrusted 3rd Partys to charge them handsomely to act as their go-between, and always happy to cough them up when their crony capitalist bro gmen come calling for their cut, too.
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:43 AM   #80
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Coinbase says it hosts over 6 million accounts; the IRS initially demanded the same info on all of them that did any business on Coinbase 2013-2015. The judgement orders Coinbase to provide the IRS that information on only 14,355 accounts - those that bought, sold, sent or received $20,000 or more in any one transaction 2013-2015. As far as I'm aware, there is no tax liability for buying, sending or receiving Bitcoin.

When you sell Bitcoin, you must determine the difference between what that same amount cost you when you bought it compared to what price you sold it for - that is the amount you're taxed as personal income on.

Very, very sad that any Judge in the United States of America would grant the federal government the power to blanket investigate individuals they can't even name for a warrant. What's next?

Can the IRS now demand Bank of America give them the personal info of their customers so the IRS can sift through it all and determine the tax cheats among them, too?

The biggest, saddest tell in this whole thing simply reinforces the horrific change which the statists have succeeded in establishing in America today: once upon a time, individuals were righteously considered innocent until they were proven guilty and, at the very least, some concrete probable cause was needed to even begin investigating the innocent; but today in Stalag USSA, all are presumed guilty, first. Here's the IRS proving just that in the basis for their original request in this specific case:

Quote:
The taxpayers being investigated have not been or may not be complying with U.S. internal revenue laws requiring the reporting of taxable income from virtual-currency transactions.
Remember: the IRS does not know who these "taxpayers" are in the first place, and their ONLY basis for the charge they then levy against these unknown persons is that the IRS maintains very few individuals reported any income at all from cryptocurrency sales during 2013-2015. That's what serves as "probable cause" for the IRS to ask a federal judge to grant its John Does request.

It's not like the IRS would ever misinform, mislead and/or outright lie to press a case...

...right Lois Lerner?
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:45 AM   #81
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https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1544.pdf
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:00 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by MagnusRichard View Post
Oh it is not like money not yet. Mark Cuban is correct; dont buy it if you will miss it if it is all lost.

I bought mine cheap most of it, but today it is worth crazy amount.

Coinbase is good, but Square will soon be easier i think.
Since we spoke yesterday Bitcoin dropped in value from about $11,000 to about $9000. That line of code you bought is pretty unstable if you ask me.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:03 AM   #83
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Since we spoke yesterday Bitcoin dropped in value from about $11,000 to about $9000. That line of code you bought is pretty unstable if you ask me.
It was never supposed to get to $9,000 but at least you said *something*.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:06 AM   #84
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Since we spoke yesterday Bitcoin dropped in value from about $11,000 to about $9000. That line of code you bought is pretty unstable if you ask me.
US Savings Bonds are also lines of code.

https://www.treasury.gov/services/Pa...ngs-Bonds.aspx
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:13 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by MagnusRichard View Post
US Savings Bonds are also lines of code.

https://www.treasury.gov/services/Pa...ngs-Bonds.aspx
Not really, you actually can get a physical bond in the mail that is redeemable in dollars.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:40 AM   #86
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It was never supposed to get to $9,000 but at least you said *something*.
vetteman is still digging for gold.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:30 PM   #87
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Bitcoin - which had reached an all-time high of $998+ on January 1, 2017 - surpassed $5,000 for the first time on September 2, 2017...

Just two weeks later - September 15, 2017 - it had lost 41% of its entire value, falling to $2900+.

Another two weeks and it had rebounded to $4,400; two weeks later it set a new ATH of $5,400+.

It's latest ATH - $11,500+ yesterday - was almost immediately followed by a nice dip down to $9,000+ (losing around 20% of its entire value), then bounced back up over $10,000+ before closing yesterday at $9,800+, where it opened today...

And went right back up as if intending to smack $11,000 in the face again as it soared over $10,600+...until something popped: as I started this post, Bitcoin was barely @ $9,000+.

And yet, as I go on with this post, it's already gained $300+ and is flirting with $9,400: still a $8,400+ profit in just 11 month for 1 Bitcoin.

At its ATH of $11,500+ yesterday, 250BTC obtained back when 1BTC=1USD was worth $2,875,000.00...

Right now, at $9,300+, it's only worth $2,325,000.00.

A $man who correctly predicted at the beginning of this year that 1BTC would reach $10,000 by the end of 2017, a month or so ago predicted 1BTC would reach $25,000 by the end of 2018...

That would make those same 250BTC worth $6,250,000.00.

But, just a few days ago, even before 1BTC reached $11,000+ yesterday, the same guy raised his 2018 prediction to 1BTC = $40,000.00...

Which would make 250BTC = $10,000,000.00. What a lovely round number, indeed.

The notoriously infamous John McAfee proudly proclaimed publicly a few months ago that if 1BTC doesn't hit $500,000.00 by 2020, he'll eat his own dick...

His ego-sating diet aside, 250BTC @ $500K each = $125,000,000.00.

But then, yesterday, he raised that prediction to 1BTC = $1,000,000.00 by 2020, and stands-by eating his own dick if Ƀ doesn't reach that high...

$250,000,000.00: now that's a very nice number to reach in less than 10 years doing absolutely nothing but HODLing an original $250 buy-in.



One should expect a bunch of crazy entertainment on a $250 rocket ship ride to some other galaxy, no?

Disclaimer

The $ aspect is never of any practical concern to a Ƀlockchain ethos-minded spacer, except so far as being able to afford some BTC and be a part of of what is truly something revolutionary in the making: it's the Ƀlockchain, stupid. I will not and do not advise any individual to obtain Ƀ for old-school, crony capitalist, $whore speculation - profit or loss.

BEWARE: the Ƀlockchain has never lost even a single Satoshi; its code is perhaps the most soundly secure ever written by man. Since it is revolutionarily decentralized, even to just theoretically crack into it, one would have to crack into at least 51% of the multi-thousands of Ƀlockchain full nodes running on INDIVIDUAL computers all over the world.

Millions of Ƀ have been stolen, though...

...by cracking into numerous untrusted 3rd Party entities/exchanges (see Mt. Gox, et al).

(First rule of ɃClub is HODL; second rule is to never allow ANYONE else access to your private keys = your Ƀ.)

Millions more Ƀ have been presumably lost forever - their owners having lost/misplaced those private keys. Out of the 16.7 million or so Ƀ that have already been mined (remember: only 20.999 million Ƀ can mathematically ever be mined), it's estimated that around 4 million of them are already lost forever (that's $37.6 billion @ current 1BTC price).

A $249,999,750.00 gain from $250 worth of Ƀ ride tickets in less than 10 years is only possible - if it happens at all - if you do one thing: HODL. Same is fully true if it's only a $2,350,000.00 gain right now (1BTC has gained back another $100 in the meantime).

If you obtain BTC, HODL it to obtain full effect on this incredible ride, which ain't likely to end in any of our lifetimes. Currently, as long as you HODL, and don't trade/spend your Ƀ, you don't owe federal income tax on it...

Whose marginal rate even under the new, proposed tax plan is 41.4% (38.5 percent, plus the 2.9% Obamacare tax), which is $972,900.00 on $2.35M, and $103,500,000.00 on $250M. Nope: if I were you, rather than make yourself FORCIBLY liable to give all that $ to all those perpetually with their hands out, just HODL and thoroughly enjoy the Ƀ ride to the stars.

You know how the socialist/democratic mob full of thieving lemmings loves to proclaim how the village/collective does this, the government made that, blah, blah, blah, blah...blah?



Do you know that cypherpunk INDIVIDUALS invented/developed/built and still maintain Ƀ, to the point where private satellites now beam down Ƀlockchain transactions to receiving set-ups that cost < $100 DIY - anywhere in the world?

Can you imagine the world when the rich will still be rich and the poor will still be poor, BUT no statist financial/government crony capitalist collective can possibly TOTALLY, TYRANNICALLY and CORRUPTIBLY CONTROL again the system itself? That INDIVIDUALS will have TOTAL INDEPENDENT POWER over their own property for the first time in world history, because the decentralized Ƀlockchain provides them that power, while its trustlessness and immutability guarantees a total void of human political partisanship, corruption and personal subjectivity infecting its code?

Understatingly grandiose, oui?



As long as Ƀlockchain continues to absolutely live-up to its virtually unlimited potential, the rocket ship ride to 1BTC = $1,000,000.00 continues.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:33 PM   #88
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:34 PM   #89
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Not really, you actually can get a physical bond in the mail that is redeemable in dollars.
No more paper bonds. All digital. Read the link!
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:58 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by MagnusRichard View Post
No more paper bonds. All digital. Read the link!
How about that. It's been a while since I bought any. So now if you buy them electronically you're at the mercy of a potential data loss, having nothing physical that represents the value of your bond? I won't be buying any more. They can take their cashless society bullshit and shove that as well.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:03 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Unabatable View Post
Bitcoin - which had reached an all-time high of $998+ on January 1, 2017 - surpassed $5,000 for the first time on September 2, 2017...

Just two weeks later - September 15, 2017 - it had lost 41% of its entire value, falling to $2900+.

Another two weeks and it had rebounded to $4,400; two weeks later it set a new ATH of $5,400+.

It's latest ATH - $11,500+ yesterday - was almost immediately followed by a nice dip down to $9,000+ (losing around 20% of its entire value), then bounced back up over $10,000+ before closing yesterday at $9,800+, where it opened today...

And went right back up as if intending to smack $11,000 in the face again as it soared over $10,600+...until something popped: as I started this post, Bitcoin was barely @ $9,000+.

And yet, as I go on with this post, it's already gained $300+ and is flirting with $9,400: still a $8,400+ profit in just 11 month for 1 Bitcoin.

At its ATH of $11,500+ yesterday, 250BTC obtained back when 1BTC=1USD was worth $2,875,000.00...

Right now, at $9,300+, it's only worth $2,325,000.00.

A $man who correctly predicted at the beginning of this year that 1BTC would reach $10,000 by the end of 2017, a month or so ago predicted 1BTC would reach $25,000 by the end of 2018...

That would make those same 250BTC worth $6,250,000.00.

But, just a few days ago, even before 1BTC reached $11,000+ yesterday, the same guy raised his 2018 prediction to 1BTC = $40,000.00...

Which would make 250BTC = $10,000,000.00. What a lovely round number, indeed.

The notoriously infamous John McAfee proudly proclaimed publicly a few months ago that if 1BTC doesn't hit $500,000.00 by 2020, he'll eat his own dick...

His ego-sating diet aside, 250BTC @ $500K each = $125,000,000.00.

But then, yesterday, he raised that prediction to 1BTC = $1,000,000.00 by 2020, and stands-by eating his own dick if Ƀ doesn't reach that high...

$250,000,000.00: now that's a very nice number to reach in less than 10 years doing absolutely nothing but HODLing an original $250 buy-in.



One should expect a bunch of crazy entertainment on a $250 rocket ship ride to some other galaxy, no?

Disclaimer

The $ aspect is never of any practical concern to a Ƀlockchain ethos-minded spacer, except so far as being able to afford some BTC and be a part of of what is truly something revolutionary in the making: it's the Ƀlockchain, stupid. I will not and do not advise any individual to obtain Ƀ for old-school, crony capitalist, $whore speculation - profit or loss.

BEWARE: the Ƀlockchain has never lost even a single Satoshi; its code is perhaps the most soundly secure ever written by man. Since it is revolutionarily decentralized, even to just theoretically crack into it, one would have to crack into at least 51% of the multi-thousands of Ƀlockchain full nodes running on INDIVIDUAL computers all over the world.

Millions of Ƀ have been stolen, though...

...by cracking into numerous untrusted 3rd Party entities/exchanges (see Mt. Gox, et al).

(First rule of ɃClub is HODL; second rule is to never allow ANYONE else access to your private keys = your Ƀ.)

Millions more Ƀ have been presumably lost forever - their owners having lost/misplaced those private keys. Out of the 16.7 million or so Ƀ that have already been mined (remember: only 20.999 million Ƀ can mathematically ever be mined), it's estimated that around 4 million of them are already lost forever (that's $37.6 billion @ current 1BTC price).

A $249,999,750.00 gain from $250 worth of Ƀ ride tickets in less than 10 years is only possible - if it happens at all - if you do one thing: HODL. Same is fully true if it's only a $2,350,000.00 gain right now (1BTC has gained back another $100 in the meantime).

If you obtain BTC, HODL it to obtain full effect on this incredible ride, which ain't likely to end in any of our lifetimes. Currently, as long as you HODL, and don't trade/spend your Ƀ, you don't owe federal income tax on it...

Whose marginal rate even under the new, proposed tax plan is 41.4% (38.5 percent, plus the 2.9% Obamacare tax), which is $972,900.00 on $2.35M, and $103,500,000.00 on $250M. Nope: if I were you, rather than make yourself FORCIBLY liable to give all that $ to all those perpetually with their hands out, just HODL and thoroughly enjoy the Ƀ ride to the stars.

You know how the socialist/democratic mob full of thieving lemmings loves to proclaim how the village/collective does this, the government made that, blah, blah, blah, blah...blah?



Do you know that cypherpunk INDIVIDUALS invented/developed/built and still maintain Ƀ, to the point where private satellites now beam down Ƀlockchain transactions to receiving set-ups that cost < $100 DIY - anywhere in the world?

Can you imagine the world when the rich will still be rich and the poor will still be poor, BUT no statist financial/government crony capitalist collective can possibly TOTALLY, TYRANNICALLY and CORRUPTIBLY CONTROL again the system itself? That INDIVIDUALS will have TOTAL INDEPENDENT POWER over their own property for the first time in world history, because the decentralized Ƀlockchain provides them that power, while its trustlessness and immutability guarantees a total void of human political partisanship, corruption and personal subjectivity infecting its code?

Understatingly grandiose, oui?



As long as Ƀlockchain continues to absolutely live-up to its virtually unlimited potential, the rocket ship ride to 1BTC = $1,000,000.00 continues.
Yeah, enjoy your deflated bitcoins when people realize that the blockchains are public domain and then someone with some backing just starts their own that becomes more popular.

Talk about fiat currency.



Invest at the top eeyore! Don't stop!!!!
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Old 11-30-2017, 02:05 PM   #92
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From its creation, Ƀlockchain has been FOSS - free open source software - meaning anyone can adopt it for their own purposes/profit, do whatever they wish with its source code.

In the last 9 years, there have been scores of specific wannabes - Ethereum perhaps the best known so far. Bcash, aka Bitcoin Cash, is just the latest. Overall, the cryptocurrency market as listed here...

https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/

...is currently made-up of 1,318 coins/tokens, NONE of which existed when Ƀ was born, yet ALL of which exist wholly because of Ƀ, which created the cryptocurrency market all by itself.

Alas, despite all those current 1,318 efforts, Ƀ still dominantly rules the entire roost, yet has also completely paved the way for them all to profit to varying degrees, too.

One coin to rule them all...
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:11 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Unabatable View Post


From its creation, Ƀlockchain has been FOSS - free open source software - meaning anyone can adopt it for their own purposes/profit, do whatever they wish with its source code.

In the last 9 years, there have been scores of specific wannabes - Ethereum perhaps the best known so far. Bcash, aka Bitcoin Cash, is just the latest. Overall, the cryptocurrency market as listed here...

https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/

...is currently made-up of 1,318 coins/tokens, NONE of which existed when Ƀ was born, yet ALL of which exist wholly because of Ƀ, which created the cryptocurrency market all by itself.

Alas, despite all those current 1,318 efforts, Ƀ still dominantly rules the entire roost, yet has also completely paved the way for them all to profit to varying degrees, too.

One coin to rule them all...
Invest invest invest!

I can't wait to hear your pauper's tale.

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Old 11-30-2017, 03:21 PM   #94
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Absolute worst case is a $250 loss.

Maybe gaze into a mirror and ponder why such a trifling amount is so dear to you, wannabe?



$2,450,000.00 as I post.
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:12 AM   #95
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A good read to abet more open minds:

Bitcoin Is a Delusion That Could Conquer the World
The cryptocurrency’s current price is completely unreal. Then again, so is money.

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/547187/
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:23 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Hypoxia View Post
The Dutch tulip market had a great run-up for awhile too.
The trick is to sell before the bubble bursts. At least with tulip bulbs you can eat them (assuming you have taken actual possession) when you've lost your money.
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:21 AM   #97
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BTW: this image is days old...

Current Ƀ network value (market cap) is already $22 billion higher @ $184 billion.

Boeing, GE, and Disney sit still the same.
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Old 12-02-2017, 07:44 AM   #98
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“Will that be cash or Chargex?”

In the beginning, chargex and other earlier credit cards like diners club were ethereal, unproven concepts.

Once enough people decide if a medium of exchange is acceptable, it grows until it is commonplace, yes?

Bitcoin looks like it has foond a place.
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Old 12-02-2017, 08:42 PM   #99
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What's the DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! DANGER! difference at this point in Bitcoin's rocket ship ride to the moon?



That's right: all the others represent the absolute full financial might/status of their respective statist, crony-capitalist, LEVIATHANIAN government/banks/military-industrial complex/deep state coalitions.

Whereas Bitcoin has soared all that way up in just 9 short years, fueled by NOTHING but the interested strength of INDIVIDUALS, peer-to-peer, decentralized, consensual, immutable, permissionless, trustless - the very anti-thesis of statist government itself.

What's that natural law about opposite forces?



Leviathan is coming.
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Old 12-02-2017, 10:57 PM   #100
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When you're right, you're right...

Quote:
US Senate Bill S.1241 to Criminalize Concealed Ownership of Bitcoin

On November 28, 2017, the US Senate, Committee of the Judiciary held a hearing regarding bill S.1241: Modernizing AML Laws to Combat Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing. Despite little attention being given to digital currencies during the hearing, bill S.1241 itself would amend the definition of ‘financial institution’ in the United States Code to include digital currencies and digital exchanges. This could have alarming consequences for users of cryptocurrencies both in the US and abroad.

Bill S.1241 would amend the definition of ‘financial institution,’ in Section 5312(a) of title 31, United States Code, to include “an issuer, redeemer, or cashier of prepaid access devices, digital currency, or any digital exchanger or tumbler of digital currency.” Currently, the definition of ‘financial institution’ includes banks, trust companies, credit unions, currency exchanges, etc.

In her introduction, Mrs. Feinstein, Ranking Member of the Judiciary Committee, said (31:35), “The bill criminalizes intentionally concealing ownership or control of a bank account.” Although, during the hearing, no further clarifications were given as to the effects this would have on the cryptocurrency community, based on the amended definition of ‘financial institution’, it seems clear enough that the bill would “criminalize [those] intentionally concealing ownership or control of a [digital currency or digital exchange] account.”

https://btcmanager.com/us-senate-bil...rship-bitcoin/
Like I said...

Leviathan is coming.

But, wait a minute here...

Quote:
Bill S.1241 would amend the definition of ‘financial institution,’ in Section 5312(a) of title 31, United States Code, to include “an issuer, redeemer, or cashier of prepaid access devices.."
Damn, boys and girls, the statists gonna DICTATE that only "financial institutions" can deal in prepaid phones now, too?

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