Lesbian Daddis/bois: Why we ID this way

WARNING! Long post!


Alrighty then. There seems to be sufficient interest in this topic, so I'll try to saisfy your curiosity. Anyone is welcome to pop up with questions, and experiences they've had, or why they chose this manner of expression.

The masculine vs. femenine thing:

I've always been mistaken for a boy. Even when I was as young as 2 years old. This, of course, led to my mother's frantic explanation that no, no, I was a girl, that I refused to wear dresses, etc. and that I didn't do well with long hair.

I've always seen myself as a "tomboy". Always out digging in the dirt, playing with my GI Joes, climbing trees, playing with rocks and a bb gun. I've never, ever, felt like a "girl". Never. I suppose that's why it didn't surprise me, as I grew up, that I had more guy than girl friends. Eventually, when I was out on my own, I made friends with new and different people who opened my eyes...told me about this whole butch world out here, (I think I was under a rock before that) one they seemed to think I'd feel right in. Find my niche.

Then my world did another abrupt backflip when I discovered the Daddi/boi-TG/TS-gender-queer world. I remember it clearly.......[nostalgic flashback]...I was sitting in Mojo's with a friend of mine, when she told me about another friend of hers who was what they called a Daddi...how this friend of hers was more like a guy than a chick, and everything about this world I had no idea existed. [/nostalgic flashback]


Ok, so 1. why do I feel this way, 2. what do I get out of it, and 3. why do I choose to identify this way?

1. Why do I feel this way about myself?

Well, as I've said, my masculine side has always called more to me than the femenine. You'll never catch me in a dress (unless I'm going gothy), a skirt, or anything pink, pastel, or frilly. I think it all looks rediculous on me. It feels like I'm trying to be someone/something I'm not. Like I'm wearing a costume.

When I used to try to "pass", I always felt as if I were betraying something soul-deep about myself. Something that most people would ridicule, or fear (ergo: Why I tried to pass for so long). It's never felt "right" exactly, to dress up all girly. Not for me.

(getting the idea I've explained this side of me before?)

It's more than the clothes I waer, though....it's more than shaving my head (most of the time), or the way I walk (I swagger, baby!), it's more than the way I carry myself, or the manner in which I speak, even.

This is simply who I am. I would most likely identify myself as simply, queer. I'm not a stone-butch, and I'm not femmey. I even have my pseudo femme moments, like when I go goth, or when I have my moments of insecurity, sometimes I *gsap!* wear eyeliner and lipstick. I swagger, I burp and fart, I talk in monosyllables when I can get away with it, I wear baggy jeans and t-shirts, my dream outfit is a pair of black pants, black button down shirt, black leather jacket, my docs, and black leather chaps (spurs optional). I also sing. I'm a bard for Amtgard here in Austin. My range is from first soprano to tenor. I usually stick to the higher side of my range, because it's more comfortable in my throat. Listen to me talk, though, and you'll be surprised at how deep my voice actually is.

I'm not sure what mademe this way....was I born like this? Did something in my childhood turn me this way? Who knows. All I know is what it's like for me.

The answers to 2, and 3 are simple.

2. What do I get out of this?
Myself. This is who I am, end of story.

3. Why do I choose to ID this way?
'Cause it's me.

I hope I've cleared up some of this for you, like I said, though, if you have questions you'd like to ask, feel free. When I decided to post this thread, I figured I'd have to share a big part of who I am, so I'm fine even with personal questions. If you don't feel comfortable asking in open thread, feel free to pm, although I may put up your question and my answer if I feel it's relevant (without putting your name in, of course). And, I apologise for rambling

OH! Visit this site, LDbOnline, it's great, if you're curiious about this sub-culture of the BDSM lifestyle.

Be well, be safe, and be happy,
Kes

The Daddi thing....

Eck! I forgot to add this secton to the original post!

To me, being a Daddi is simply an extension of who I am. It's not a "role" I play in the bedrrom, or in scene. It's part of how I see myself. To me, a Daddi is just the masculine side of being a Domme. I love my boi...I care for hym, and try to see that hy is taken care of as well as I can...I protect hym, and play with hym (ie: a slinky race, bb-guns, slingshots, etc.) I give hym the Dominanace hy needs. I see to hys needs as my submissive.

It is a bit different from the distinction of Master, though. A Daddi is just as harsh a taskmaster, but there's more of a tie, or connection between a Daddi and hys/her boi, than there is between most Master/sub pairs. I can't exactly describe it.....again, feel free to ask questions, that's why I put up this thread.

Be well, be safe, be happy,
Kes

like Daddi, like boi....

well since Daddi Kes started only fair that Hys boi post as well...

im alot like Kes.... i grew up as a kid and allways played the dad role when playing house... i allways was playing war, transformers, voltron, nintendo and anything like the boys.... all my friends were boys and if i was friends with girls i was more of a brother type to them like all protective than anything....

funny.... i was only female on the main rifle drill team in my rotc class in HS... i was way more just tomboyish than i was femme..... i could and still can pull off the femme thing and get second takes with it but my god im tired of putting on the same fasade that i just basically despise... i remember going to church and when i got home it was all i could do to get out of my clothes.....

but as a boi now.... and my boi side is developing quickly and very much in a superfun way... specially wiff Daddi's help....im freer, and way more happy and relaxed.... its whats been hidden for so long ive gone for so long with absolutely no identity and all sudden Kes posted the link above She just posted and BAM..... i knew and saw that its who i was.... im a boi..

im a boi nothing more but a highly agressive masculine butch submissive who cares for my Daddi deeply and love Her with all i have. and thank Her everyday in my heart for showing me this side actually existed...

id be happy as a lark to answer any questions on the boi side as well and if i cant get the answer ill findout some how.

I swagger, I burp and fart, I talk in monosyllables when I can get away with it, I wear baggy jeans and t-shirts, my dream outfit is a pair of black pants, black button down shirt, black leather jacket, my docs, and black leather chaps (spurs optional).

Click to expand...

I'm just curios why is all that attributed to being the charecteristics of the male behavior? We all don't always burp, fart, scratch balls all the time. Yes, it is nice to wear comfortable T-shirt and pair of jeans once in a while, but somehow I don't want to acept that being dirty and act like you grew up in a barn means you are male or something close to it.
Not meant to start an arguement, even tho my wife would say different , just an observation of something that I see way too often around us.

Kes?
You're married...to a man.
How does that work with your headspace?
Does he have a relationship(s) outside your marriage that provides for him what you cannot? (I'm interested in a more than idle way: my dominant has a life partner, too, and it is with the understanding and active approval of his wife that he and have what we have together. Just so you know...)

mikey?
Ever been attracted to men?
Why do you still sometimes feel the need to "pass"? Family obligations?

To you both: do your families know about this side of you? Having told my mother, last summer, that i am and have always been a BDSM masochistic submissive, i know how difficult it is to be open about our core selves with our families.




I really hope not to offend with these - and any subsequent - questions. I don't know much about your subculture, though, and would love to learn from someone who's so initmately acquainted with it. Reading about it from a website isn't the same thing as talking with someone for whom it's an everyday reality.

I've taken some time to think about this before I offered a few comments.

I'm very similar to both mikey and Kestrel. I don't own a dress, nor a skirt, or god forbid a "skort". Most of my clothes are boyish to some degree. I have super short hair and my mannerisms aren't feminine at all...at least not to my thinking. This has been true ever since I was a kid. And for me, too...all but one of my close friends are men.

I cannot change. I've tried to be more girly but it just doesn't do it for me. So I relate to what the two of you are saying. I've been mistaken for a boy, once when I was trying on clothes at a store, the clerk looked at me, smiled, looked at her co-worker who started laughing and said "I don't know...don't look at me", and the first clerk asked me, "which side are we going on?" meaning was I to use the men's fitting room or the women's. That hurt. I'm not sure why. Still working on that one. My guts tell me it's because I'm a girl, I'm "supposed" to be feminine, and because I'm not, it's OK to ridicule me. Deep in my heart, I know it's NOT OK, but still...

Anyway, the difference between myself and mikey and Kestrel, is that I'm hetero. Completely and totally. I am attracted to men. I love me. I love sex with men. The thought of doing something sexual with a woman does nothing for me. While I don't find lesbian sex disgusting in and of itself (in fact, I like to watch lesbian porn), the thought of MYSELF engaging in sex with another woman is repulsive. I hope no one took offense to that comment and understands what I mean.

Since most people I meet assume I am a lesbian, I've actually consider the possibility, and I'm just, well...not gay.

I don't have a desire to become a man...you know, if I could wake up one morning and have the choice of *poof* becoming male, I wouldn't do it. There's aspects of my gender that I love about myself...I love my feminine body, I like how I look naked, with nicely shaped breasts and a tapered waist. I love being able to show that off and grab a man's attention if I want to. But yet, I'm happy too, being where I am...somewhere between male and female.

It's good to know I'm not alone, that there are people similar to me here and elsewhere. Thanks for the post.

have i ever been attracted to men?.... <looks behind me and sees my husband watching TV and remembers my many relationships in the military> yes. im married. but there again..... my own personal opinion on my sexuality is as follows:

im a lesbian who is married to my best friend from HighSchool... He and i are that.. best friends.... my sexuality was there even before we got married... we only did it cause it basically fit.... but other than being married to him.... i am in my eyes a full lesbian... im not bisexual except that i do find men attractive..... but to have sex with another man... wont happen..... my husband is strong in his support for my sexuality... hes right along with me when it comes to going to pride days and heck he even waits out in the car if needed <when we only had one car> to allow me to go to community center meetings and functions ... and finally got brave enuff to go to a few functions as well... hence the pride days and parade.

but my love is for women..... im not going to defend my beliefs on my own sexuality cause i feel thier allready prominent and valid....

and the response to why do i feel the need to "pass" yeah it was family obligation... i come from a very very rightwinged family who does NOT accept the lifestyle what so ever.... but i basically have been the black sheep of the family anyways so ya know why care anymore what is right or wrong in thier eyes...

im not a heartless bull dyke or anything of the sort.

but just until recently i ran around searching and searching for my own identity..... i never had one i allways conformed to other peoples standards... was easier to follow than it was to lead and be my own person.. and finally i found out what i like what i want and who i really am. and what you see here in this thread is who i am... im a boi...

as far as the lack of manners and lack of pardons for bodily functions and such.... as the bumpersticker says <in clean terms> "chit happens"

and just because one comes off as masculine but is straight...... honey there aint NOTHING wrong wiff it sis... if dats the way that the Gods made ya then as Rupaul said: "You Better Work!"<snaps finger in z formation> <smirks>

ok im off my soap box now...

peace and humptyness forever!!

Ok, to clarify....

I'm just curios why is all that attributed to being the charecteristics of the male behavior? We all don't always burp, fart, scratch balls all the time. Yes, it is nice to wear comfortable T-shirt and pair of jeans once in a while, but somehow I don't want to acept that being dirty and act like you grew up in a barn means you are male or something close to it.

Click to expand...

I wasn't saying those were, in my mind, attributed solely to male behaviour, simply those things are not "femme" (in the realm of butch-femme). Also my clothing has nothing whatsoever to do with why I feel this way about my life. I was only citing examples for clarification. I don't apologise for my bodily functions because they are just that. Bodily functions. I am also not saying anything about clenlines there. I, personally, am fastidious. My guy friends....fit between clean, and imaculate, so if I were to try to attribute that to them, I know they'd all kick my butt, lol. Nor do I attribute barnyard scents, or attitudes...with men. I do apologise if this was the way I sounded.

Kes?
You're married...to a man.
How does that work with your headspace?
Does he have a relationship(s) outside your marriage that provides for him what you cannot?

Click to expand...

Not at the moment he doesn't. (have another partner) He's not a BDSM-type Dominanat, but does have quite a dominant personality.
(He said he needs a sugarmomma )
He may or may not find himself a submissive someday, that's up to him, and if he does that's totally cool. He knew this side of me when we met (6 years ago), and loved, then married me anyway. In all my activities, there is nothing of which he is unaware, no aspect of myself that I try to hide from him...everything I do, BDSM-wise, is with his full support.

Something else to clarify...I love this man. He's my best friend, partner, love, and lover. We have sex often, and it's beyond belief....if he ever thought I was giving him less than he wants/needs, he'd tell me, but quick.

Honestly, I'd have to say ... I see myself is as a queer andro. To clarify ... while I do not feel femme, nor act, nor dress femme ... sometimes I do go goth (corset, black velvet skirt, makeup) ... I keep trying to fit myself into a box ... put some kind of label on myself, but they all keep falling off as I discover more of myself ... or re-discover parts of me I thought dead.

My family has no idea about this side of me. And I don't plan to tell them. They're quite religeous, and very, very right-winged......I'd rather get along with them than go through the emotional pain that would come of telling them. I have this odd aquaintance-type relationship with them, rather than a parent-child relationship. It's no big deal that they don't know all of me. They know I shave my head, and refuse to "act like a girl" (as my mother once requested of me), they know I'm not femenine, and most of my nasty habits....smoking and things of that nature, and the urge to get pierced and tatooed...and they've learned to deal with it. All-in-all, it's a good way to relate to them, since I am so very different.


To Cirrus:

I don't have a desire to become a man...you know, if I could wake up one morning and have the choice of *poof* becoming male, I wouldn't do it. There's aspects of my gender that I love about myself...I love my femenine body, I like how I look naked, with nicely shaped breasts and a tapered waist.
*snip*
But yet, I'm happy too, being where I am...somewhere between male and female.

Click to expand...

I hear ya there. I am never going to get srs. Nothing wrong with it for those who feel it is what they need, but not for me. I like my body. (not in it's current shape of round, however) I wouldn't be a bio-guy for all the money in the world. I'm not a man trapped in a woman's body--hence the andro-- I just don't fit nicely into any category, but then ... most people don't fit any one label, anyway *chuckles*

The break down is this ... I'm not femenine ... I'm not masculine ... I'm somewhere in between ... some odd amalgamation of the two.

Hope no one fell asleep there. Keep the questions commin, I'm not offended, not at all, I'm actually enjoying this......helps me put into words why I am the way I am,.....and what exactly that is, anyway.


Namaste,
Kes

I'd like to say thanks to Kes, and mikey, and everyone else for this very informative thread. I appreciate your openness and honesty.

I am curious as to why it seems that those women who self-identify as masculine seem to mainly be attracted to other such women or to men, and not to feminine women. Is this an accurate impression, and if so, what do you think accounts for it?

Caroline, while this might be true for myself, Kestrel and mikey, it's not always true. I know of 2 lesbian couples that I'm very good friends with. One, I would guess, resemble Kestrel and mikey, in that both partners are very masculine women. In the other though, both women are very feminine...pretty long hair, makeup, dresses.

I don't know why I'm attracted to men. I just am. I don't know why I ID the way I do. I just do. Maybe I'm really a gay man trapped in a woman's body. Who knows? One thing I should mention though...the men that I have been with for any period of time longer than a casual relationship have been significantly older than me. My current partner is 31 years my senior, and it's working out great. My last was 22 years older than me. That worked out well, too...we split for reasons unrelated to age. I don't know if that has any bearing on things, but a close friend of mine is that is a "tomboy" too married her ecology professor...28 years older than her.

thats a really good question Caroline... its not allways true though.... i do know that in the Daddi/boi relationship it is a butch on butch theme... and i just have that attraction my self... when in a club id be watching the butches more than the femmes... i could relate to them more.. and with my marriage.. well same thing i relate to my husband rather well.. and can be side by side with him working on the car. so it works too.

as far as i know its not allways the case that butches only go after butches or femmes after femmes.... i recently watches "If these Walls Could Talk 2" and it portrays a very good <drools over Chloe Sevigney> story in there about a butch-femme relationship... and i know ALOT of people i hung out in some of the clubs here where i live that the butches were allways looking for a pretty femme to cling onto.... so society since then has changed.. its not just one type with whe same type but its growing quite diverse...

it is kinda funny thinking about it that im totally in love with my Daddi Kes. but i have like an obsession with Madonna and lookie there... talk about almost ultra femme... she had her psuedo butch point during her Girley Show tour <laffs cause i got my hair cut off that> but she is like the apitomy of ultra femme... so yeah we butches have our moments... but i know i need my Daddi and love Her with all my heart.... ok enough rambling mushy stuffs <puffs up> hope that helped..

peace and humptyness forever!

mikey

Thank you Cirrus and mikey.
I realize that many butch women are attracted to femmes. I have been to a lesbian bar a few times, and my girly butt got plenty of attention
But you addressed my question well, and I appreciate it. I am really glad that the parameters of discussion on the board has expanded in this fascinating direction.

i thinks this thread is really allowing me to really pull out all i have and really search what ive shoved back for so long so thanks for the responses and keep em coming!!
peace and humptyness for ever!!

mikey

A man? WHERE?

cymbidia said:

Kes?
You're married...to a man.

Click to expand...

*checks himself for various parts* Oh, is THAT what I am? I'd always wondered!

Does he have a relationship(s) outside your marriage that provides for him what you cannot? (I'm interested in a more than idle way: my dominant has a life partner, too, and it is with the understanding and active approval of his wife that he and have what we have together. Just so you know...)

Click to expand...

*nods* Sounds like you've got a winner, there. Kes & I have an understanding. I get prior approval before she has sex with anyone. When she forgets about this understanding, it's usually to her regret, because sometimes she chooses poorly... (Or did I say too much?)

<looks at Master Black Wolfe's remark> ok just stating for the record... i sure as heck hope Yer happy with Her choice now!! <laffs insanely> love Ya Master BlackWolfe.... <waves to Daddi too>

peace and humptyness forever!!

mikey

This isn't the lesbianhood I know

In my relationship with my girlfriend, well.. she's definitly a femme. I'm sort of... in the middle. I hate wearing dresses or make-up, most of my friends are guys, have short hair (shorter then any of my friends!) and all that, but I still manage to come across as fairly femme. Maybe because I wear tight shirts. It's weird.
I used to actually have a really hard time, in middle school. In elementary school, i was just one of the guys. In high school, I became comfortable with myself and I came out and I also somehow lost some of my masculinity. I guess it doesn't hurt anybody for me to be dykey and still be eye candy for guys .
But I guess what I'm babbling about is that there are so many ways to be a lesbian... a lot of straight people seem to think that lesbians are all manly, or are butch or femme... and there are so many things you can be.

I think we should abolish gender stereotypes.... I know straight guys who are completely effiminate, and a straight girl that's so butch. I know a gay guy that looks very straight, and I can't go anywhere without getting guys trying to pick me up.

okay, this is soapbox stuff, so i'll apologize ahead of time.

i hate the labels. i hate the restrictions. i just want to be who i am. if i want to wear a dress, i'll wear a dress. if i want to dress in drag i'll dress in drag. if i want to be with a woman, i will. if i want to be with a man i will. why does what is right for a person right now mean they have to be that way forever?

the world isn't static. human beings shouldn't be static. forcing someone to identify as a certain way without room for change, for the natural ebb and flow that comes with life, is just something we do to make people easier to process.

well fuck that. i'm hard to process and there's nothing you can do about it.

lexie, darlin', you know that some people *want* the comfort and companionship and community that labels can help provide. Others don't want any part of labels. Either way is legitimate, as well as all the in-between ways of being, too.

Personally, i know i'm not the same as i was 30 years ago, or 20, or even 10. Hell, i'm not the same as i was last December. Personally, i change labels for myself as often as i need to, as i want to - but some of them don't change very often, lexie, and some of them might as well be permanent.

I've identified as a bi fem masosub for 30 years.
I've identified as a mother for almost 14 years.
I've identified as a blonde for 45 years.

Some labels are useful.
Pick and choose from among all the labels available to you.
Allow others to do the same.
Such is the way of peaceful co-existence.


(Do you think i should shut the fuck up now and go to bed? Perhaps it's true, what i'm only suspecting, and my brain really isn't attached to my fingertips right now.)


Nighty-night.
~snoozesnore~

cymbidia said:

(Do you think i should shut the fuck up now and go to bed? Perhaps it's true, what i'm only suspecting, and my brain really isn't attached to my fingertips right now.)

Click to expand...

Always a change this tiem of night dear

I think I'm male, but even thats open to question.

Cheffie, unlabled and unmarked

Labels....

Labels are funny things.

I think of myself as a straight, wasp, alpha, sensitive, open-minded, kind, creative, intelligent, intuitive, fun, hardworking, generous sort.

But I'm labelled or questioned on who I am by people from various perspectives constantly.

Some think I could be gay because I like to cook and shop and listen.

Some business people think I'm a non-conformist anarchist because of the way I dress and act.

Some non-conformist anarchists think I'm a straight-laced suit dilletante freak because of the way I dress and act.

Some think I'm arrogant, cold and aloof because I like to get to the facts sometimes.

Some think I'm a jock patriarch asshole because I like fast cars, rough sports and feminine women who allow me to lead.

Some think I'm a creative.

Some think I'm a linear anal-retentive analytical.

In the end, what I think is the bottom line....I think.

And as long as I find enough acceptance to avoid being a complete pariah in a cardboard box in an alley, I'm fine with all of it.

I suggest that perhaps the same goes for everyone...if you wanna be happy, be happy. Time is infinet, so each of our existences Here is but a speck. Enjoy your speck and make it count, at least for yourself.

Lance

to be honest i didnt know all these labels until i opened this thread


i understand the security of labels ... for me i had to work things out for myself when i was younger to discover i was gay ... and then coming out to my family friends and workmates ... all those things took work ... so yes im kinda proud of my label as a lesbian


but i know it doesnt 100% define me as a person i guess thats why i've never tried to define my label as anymore then that



an interesting thread thank you kestral and mikey

I am wondering if the issue of labeling here doesn't have at least at much to do with bdsm as it does with lesbianism. It seems like within the bdsm lifestyle, people are much more prone to declare a strong sexual self-identification than is common among the general population. (See how nice I am, I didn't call anyone vanilla )

who defines the label ... is it up to us as individuals to choose what labels we wish ... or is it a degree down to how others see us

i've heard many guys say they are lesbians but no matter how much they wish it ... it ain't so

Yes.. Labels labels labels *smiles*

I don't know where I fit in the spectrum because I am what most people consider to be very soft butch. Does that make me a femmeboi?

More on labels
The Lesbian Gay Bi Transgender Rambling Thread (LGBT)

hi ya dusty by way


im still lost with all these labels ... ive no idea what i would be considored as