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Old 10-29-2013, 11:49 PM   #1
MeekMe
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What makes a PYL

This is a difficult question to answer. I used PYL because everyone here is different and every relationship is different.

I had an experience tonight that made me ask a lot of questions. What makes a Dom/me? What makes a Sub? I'm a bit confused I suppose.

Is a sub selfish if they want to get something in return?

Can someone be dominant if dominating someone doesn't do it for them? Like say the only thing they get out of it is that the person they are "doming" gets turned on by it and that person (the sub) being turned on is what gets the "dom" turned on. (>_<)

Is it even D/s at that point?


Since this is difficult, and one answer doesn't fit all, please just give your honest opinion of how you feel. Personal experiences are welcomed. I looked around but didn't find a post on this. I can only assume this is something that's been asked a million times. ^_^ I'd appreciate if you'd give an answer one more time.
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:04 AM   #2
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Have you read the essay linked in my signature?

The other night-- the one that i was bragging about-- she had freshly done nails. They looked like black claws. She had them done for me, because she knows I love to be scratched hard.

I said; "Scare me with those nails, baby."
She said "Oh no, I'm sorry!"
I said; "No, that was an order. Drag them up my leg right up to my pussy, make me worry that you're not going to stop. Scare your daddy a little."

Which she did-- by way of NOT stopping once in a while, just to remind me of why I should be scared.

She is very submissive and a bit of a pillow princess, but I want her to learn how to satisfy my masochism-- because it will get her what she wants, which is me putting her over my knee just to restore the balance.

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Old 10-30-2013, 12:18 AM   #3
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I have read it, thank you. I'm just... hm... I'm not really sure I'm in the right mind to really write it. Asking these questions was the best way for me to try and sort it out. For now...
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:21 AM   #4
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I think a successful, satisfying relationship is all about the feedback loop. How that loop is achieved is just the details, which can vary tremendously. To me, the PYL is the one who oversees how the loop runs, guides the structure, and the pyl does their best to fulfill it and keep the feedback flowing (action/reaction).

Obviously there's a lot more going on in the details part, but I think this is the essence.

Personally, I need pain and sex swirled together and I need to know that the person giving it to me is enjoying the giving, that they want me to feel what I'm feeling. Beyond the physical, I need someone who keeps me grounded and who I can serve and care for in a variety of ways. Master enjoys beating me to tears, ultimately pushing me beyond what I think I can take in both pleasure and pain, and enjoys using me for his own pleasure. We both take care of each other on more emotional levels, giving each other whatever nurtures us best.
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:39 AM   #5
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One of the reasons [long term] posters on Lit adopted the PYL/pyl label, was because there are so many ways to do "power" in relationships. Yes, one can sub-divide into categories and debate (and debate, and debate) the difference between master, dominant, top, spaghetti-monster-in-the-sky.

But in the end, one person is running the show (permanently, temporarily, because they were asked or told to, or under specific circumstances); however, (IMO) if everyone involved is enjoying themselves, and in agreement about what's happening and where things are [might be] going... does it *really* matter what makes person A the PYL and person B the pyl?

As for the "getting something in return" being selfish thing -

Hell.No.

I clean The Man's house a few times a month. I actually made it a condition of the relationship, because it benefits *ME*. It's my down time. My meditation. My safe [head] space. It also happens to benefit him.

Does the fact that I enjoy domestic service make it any less a service? Does the fact that it's a win/ win situation, negate the fact that the arrangement happens to reinforce the subtle thread of power that runs through the relationship?

On some level, everyone (even the pyl) has to get something out of a relationship, or we might as well rub ourselves down with ashes and hang a "MARTYR FOR HIRE" sign around out neck...
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:56 AM   #6
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Thank you all for replying. I think I'm in a better state of mind today. I'll give this some more thought.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeekMe View Post
This is a difficult question to answer. I used PYL because everyone here is different and every relationship is different.

I had an experience tonight that made me ask a lot of questions. What makes a Dom/me? What makes a Sub? I'm a bit confused I suppose.

Is a sub selfish if they want to get something in return?

Can someone be dominant if dominating someone doesn't do it for them? Like say the only thing they get out of it is that the person they are "doming" gets turned on by it and that person (the sub) being turned on is what gets the "dom" turned on. (>_<)

Is it even D/s at that point?


Since this is difficult, and one answer doesn't fit all, please just give your honest opinion of how you feel. Personal experiences are welcomed. I looked around but didn't find a post on this. I can only assume this is something that's been asked a million times. ^_^ I'd appreciate if you'd give an answer one more time.
For me, being a Dom is all about power and control.

It's not selfish at all. Why would any sub want to submit to another person's needs, wants, and desires if they get nothing out of it? Even if they do it just to make the other person happy then that itself, is getting something in return.

I would say in your scenario that person is Topping the other person. Topping can be the act of dominating without the usual mental and emotional mindset of being a Dominant. It's more of a Top/bottom thing, but still very much a part of D/s.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:33 AM   #8
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I saw PYL, tried to figure out what it could possibly mean, and the only thing I could come up with was, Person You Love. :-)
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1sha View Post
I saw PYL, tried to figure out what it could possibly mean, and the only thing I could come up with was, Person You Love. :-)
This forum "invented" PYL/pyl to cover as many as possible of the descriptions used in the BDSM culture:

PYL = Pick Your Label - Top, Master/Mistress, Dom/me, Sadist, etc.

pyl = pick your label - bottom, slave, submissive, masochist, etc.

It makes life *so* much easier when we don't always know what flavor of person we're trying to describe!
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:08 AM   #10
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Thank you, Sir Winston54 for providing the definition on this.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:09 AM   #11
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It's all in your mind...and perhaps heart. I think if anyone were to look at my relationship right now from the outside they would say it's not D/s or BDSM-y at all. Real life issues in both of our lives have gotten so crazy it's a fight to barely keep my head above water.

But in our hearts we both know who is in control and who is submissive. After over 8 years together I find that to be so very comforting. I think it is for him, too.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:31 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by ecstaticsub View Post
It's all in your mind...and perhaps heart. I think if anyone were to look at my relationship right now from the outside they would say it's not D/s or BDSM-y at all. Real life issues in both of our lives have gotten so crazy it's a fight to barely keep my head above water.

But in our hearts we both know who is in control and who is submissive. After over 8 years together I find that to be so very comforting. I think it is for him, too.
Ditto.

I mentioned to him a few weeks ago, that sometimes it feels like I'm in this weird "gray zone". Nowhere near the dynamic of a "normal" relationship, but nowhere near the dynamic of a "typical D/s" relationship either. Like I'm in some sort of midlife-kinky crisis or something. It's a big part of why I try very hard to no longer label myself, or my relationship re: BDSM terminology.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:53 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by ecstaticsub View Post
It's all in your mind...and perhaps heart. I think if anyone were to look at my relationship right now from the outside they would say it's not D/s or BDSM-y at all. Real life issues in both of our lives have gotten so crazy it's a fight to barely keep my head above water.

But in our hearts we both know who is in control and who is submissive. After over 8 years together I find that to be so very comforting. I think it is for him, too.
I don't have the experience of years, only months. I still question a lot of things in the dynamic and I'm unsure of how to view them. On the outside we are very different and anyone who sees us or knows us would never suspect what we do in the bedroom. The bedroom is where it stays. I look forward to that comfort of being sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CutieMouse View Post
Ditto.

I mentioned to him a few weeks ago, that sometimes it feels like I'm in this weird "gray zone". Nowhere near the dynamic of a "normal" relationship, but nowhere near the dynamic of a "typical D/s" relationship either. Like I'm in some sort of midlife-kinky crisis or something. It's a big part of why I try very hard to no longer label myself, or my relationship re: BDSM terminology.
I don't really like the labels. I can only associate so much that one label doesn't work for me or for him. For now though, because I'm so unsure, the label helps in understanding.

Midlife-kinky crisis sounds about like how I feel. Though, not quite midlife... I feel like all my desires have just exploded inside me and now I'm trying to unload them piece by piece to not overwhelm Mister. At the same time I hesitate because the modest, "normal" part of me tells me I'm a little bit weird. Hehehe... I must be telling you all things you've heard a million times.
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:16 PM   #14
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The dynamics change in our relationship with my PYL depending on circumstance, there are many areas where I am dominant and have control and vice versa. In normal day to day living the boundaries are unclear and merge into each other. During playtime or vanilla sex he is always dominant, at those times the dynamics never change. He initiates and what he says goes, it has to be this way for us because there is no other way for us. It suits us both.

As for the label, he requires me to call him Master when we are playing, or writing/communicating outside of the bedroom-I am his bitch or slut. Outside of BDSM he is many things, my husband to be, best friend and lover.

He understands my need for pain and control just as much as I understand his need to deliver it, within a loving scenario
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:25 PM   #15
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Good Point

Quote:
Originally Posted by CutieMouse View Post

But in the end, one person is running the show (permanently, temporarily, because they were asked or told to, or under specific circumstances); however, (IMO) if everyone involved is enjoying themselves, and in agreement about what's happening and where things are [might be] going... does it *really* matter what makes person A the PYL and person B the pyl?

As for the "getting something in return" being selfish thing -

Hell.No.

Does the fact that I enjoy domestic service make it any less a service? Does the fact that it's a win/ win situation, negate the fact that the arrangement happens to reinforce the subtle thread of power that runs through the relationship?

On some level, everyone (even the pyl) has to get something out of a relationship, or we might as well rub ourselves down with ashes and hang a "MARTYR FOR HIRE" sign around out neck...
I shortened this quote above but I agree with everything. Well said.

My thought is IF you are asking what you are, Dom, Sub, or what is going on in this scene? Is he Dom or sub? Then in most cases it is best to just experience bedroom fun for a while and not worry about labels. IF you are in a relationship, and you both enjoy trying things in the bedroom whether it is for the other person or not, just enjoy it and don't worry about labels.

IF you are trying to fill out a profile on a singles web site and you are not sure what label to put down, or during a conversation someone asks you if you are Dom and you don't know, just say so. Don't put down either on the application and if asked say you are exploring the issue.

The problem is everyone has their own ideas and rules and what a Dom or Domme is. New people to BDSM usually follow what others say or what they read in a book until they eventually realize there are really no rules (just guidelines people can give you) when you are in your own bedroom. If you are having fun, keep doing what you are doing.

IF you truly want to analyze yourself and even put a label on it, ask yourself why you like what you like? If you keep asking why, and listen to your own answers, you will find out. This may not work for everyone, but for it to work you need to ask and answer the deeper questions.

"Why do I like that?" Because it feels great.
"Why do I like that?" Because she looks hot on top.
"Why do I like that?" Because she looks like she is enjoying herself more on top.
"Why do I like that?" Because I like her taking control of her own pleasure.
"Why do I like that?" Because I like her when she is aggressive. That lusty look on her face like she is about to devour a Sandwich. I love it when she looks at me that way.

I could go on, but I am sure you get the idea.

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Old 10-30-2013, 12:42 PM   #16
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My thought is IF you are asking what you are, Dom, Sub, or what is going on in this scene? Is he Dom or sub? Then in most cases it is best to just experience bedroom fun for a while and not worry about labels. IF you are in a relationship, and you both enjoy trying things in the bedroom whether it is for the other person or not, just enjoy it and don't worry about labels.

IF you are trying to fill out a profile on a singles web site and you are not sure what label to put down, or during a conversation someone asks you if you are Dom and you don't know, just say so. Don't put down either on the application and if asked say you are exploring the issue.

The problem is everyone has their own ideas and rules and what a Dom or Domme is. New people to BDSM usually follow what others say or what they read in a book until they eventually realize there are really no rules (just guidelines people can give you) when you are in your own bedroom. If you are having fun, keep doing what you are doing.
My first Sir suffered through many of these same wonderings from me. He would call it 'chronic overthink' then put me over his knee and distract me. His ultimate philosophy was to go with the flow, do what fulfilled you and quit worrying about labels. He was bi and a switch, and utterly at peace with his desires. Sometimes it could be a very daunting example to follow.
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:09 PM   #17
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I went through similar about 2 years ago, and ultimately decided "to hell with it, I'm making up my own labels".

I conceive of myself as some combination of house cat and superhero sidekick. He calls himself a bastard. You can see how most labels fail us. The truth of the matter is that I have some submissive tendencies, am service-oriented and a masochist. He's not interested in dominance so much as being a bit of a sadist in every aspect of our relationship, emotional and physical. He'll play the dom when I ask, though. He'll handle customer service for me, or come down hard when it comes to doing something I need to do.

At the end of the day, though, I'm still the one that introduced him to BDSM, and I'm still the one that does most of the educating. But I don't take the lead, that's just when I put on my sidekick hat and play recon.

Our dynamic might change a little, though, since we're both on medication for our respective mental issues now. He says he feels like superman, whereas before he was tired and frustrated and depressed. I can hear how much more energy he has on the phone. Might that translate to him taking an active leaderly position? I dunno, we'll see next time I visit. I wouldn't be surprised if it just makes him into more of a bully and bastard, though. Which, while not recognized as a kink label, is a role that I adore.
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:37 PM   #18
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Love it

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Originally Posted by KoPilot View Post
I went through similar about 2 years ago, and ultimately decided "to hell with it, I'm making up my own labels".
I love this. Yes make up your own labels! Why? Because many times with certain labels comes certain "assumptions", forget the labels or assumptions and make up your own. I see so many threads with people saying..."Well since you are a Dom, you should act this way..." go with the flow as mentioned above and be yourself.


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Old 10-30-2013, 07:06 PM   #19
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Talking For me I'm a switch.........

I've been a sub , a mistress, a service bottom and a service top! It's all good . In my opinion I am mostly a switch with sub leanings. But that's only because of subspace ...............nothing quite like it!
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:11 PM   #20
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You people...

I love you guys ^_^

I have no one around me other than Mister that I can talk to. Seeing this community and talking with you all helps so much. I'm very grateful for all the replies. It has helped me put things into perspective and really given me a clearer view.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:26 PM   #21
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You people...

I love you guys ^_^

I have no one around me other than Mister that I can talk to. Seeing this community and talking with you all helps so much. I'm very grateful for all the replies. It has helped me put things into perspective and really given me a clearer view.
Take what we have to offer, and apply those bits to your worldview that *fit YOU,* knowing that in the long run, all we can offer is the bits and pieces that have worked for *us,* and thus we offer them freely in the hope that you will find things that work for you and make your life more complete.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:41 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Sir_Winston54 View Post
Take what we have to offer, and apply those bits to your worldview that *fit YOU,* knowing that in the long run, all we can offer is the bits and pieces that have worked for *us,* and thus we offer them freely in the hope that you will find things that work for you and make your life more complete.
I appreciate the disclaimer and see that what is offered is not necessarily what fits for me. I do, however, value the opinion of those who have more experience. I don't take everything to heart and realize I have to do what is best for me.

I feel I have started to find my own answer and will continue to explore. p(^_^)q
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:28 PM   #23
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I feel I have started to find my own answer and will continue to explore. p(^_^)q
This is what matters most of all. Rock on!
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:00 AM   #24
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[quote=MeekMe;50433365]This is a difficult question to answer. I used PYL because everyone here is different and every relationship is different.

I had an experience tonight that made me ask a lot of questions. What makes a Dom/me? What makes a Sub? I'm a bit confused I suppose.

Is a sub selfish if they want to get something in return?

Can someone be dominant if dominating someone doesn't do it for them? Like say the only thing they get out of it is that the person they are "doming" gets turned on by it and that person (the sub) being turned on is what gets the "dom" turned on. [quote=MeekMe;50433365]

It might be that having more defined parameters can, conversely, allow a person to more fully explore or experience their own desires. The parameters can provide a solid basis, an area where there is less uncertainty, providing more freedom to try on new things.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:39 AM   #25
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As everyone's experience in the lifestyle is so unique, and can be so varied, I'm sure all any of us can convey is what we have personally experienced. That being said, here is my own take.

While I do consider myself a Dominant, I am not terribly hard core, and there are times when I am topping my wife simply to give her what she is needing in that respect. Other times, I am content to let it all be about me. And still other times, we are very much in sync and the energies we radiate end up empowering the other (hence my user name). So perhaps I am not everyone's idea of a Dom, but it is a descriptive that works for me. As does sadist, top, lover, provider, et al.

The specifics of any BDSM pairing (or more-ing?) matter only to those involved. As long as it's safe, sane and consensual, and those participating are finding what they need in it, then it's all good. Communicate, negotiate, question, research, and then communicate some more. It's more work than your typical vanilla relationship, but also vastly more rewarding. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Best of luck to you and yours.
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