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Old 07-30-2013, 11:55 PM   #76
todski28
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Originally Posted by twelveoone View Post
claymore or surgical knife, I'm comfortable either way
an age of no bread and guillotines, mirrored hall, Louis XVI of France. That was put in for three reasons and it starts a pattern for a least one (foreshadowing) Glad to see you back. I'm outta here, place is so much better without...so says the anon.
screw the anon it's a result of people not being able to take criticism. I have developed as a writer by having your knowledge around and I'm sure most everyone here that actually wants to learn has learnt something from you.
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:06 PM   #77
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claymore or surgical knife, I'm comfortable either way
an age of no bread and guillotines, mirrored hall, Louis XVI of France. That was put in for three reasons and it starts a pattern for a least one (foreshadowing) Glad to see you back. I'm outta here, place is so much better without...so says the anon.
I hope you come back twelve. We don't always agree but your voice is strong for your points and people learn from them. I respect that as I think you know. And really todski is right, fuck anon. Anon is just another troll.

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Old 07-31-2013, 10:36 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by todski28 View Post
screw the anon it's a result of people not being able to take criticism. I have developed as a writer by having your knowledge around and I'm sure most everyone here that actually wants to learn has learnt something from you.
I admire a guy that can take a punch, and throw one back. The anon, could care less, I get tired of the presumptions, and laziness. I'm going to throw you a very elemental set of keys. That poem - I sucker punched the audience three times and waked away. The king of france, I break the fourth wall, everybody killed, and I feel alone and cold? Really?
Here is the key, there is a pattern of two's and three's in most poetry, the pattern is somehow offset, heart used twice, two different ways, duck three times, two different ways. Two premonitions, one I tell you about, because it was so absurd (cueing the audience - look I know this shit ain't happening, it's gonna get worse, so I'm warning you)
As I pace, peering though poet's eyes at a race between the grotesque and grandiose, but Where is the gobbledygook? and so on and so forth.
3 p's, 2 gr's lead to a frustrated g (without the r, but then another g)
2's and 3's, the iamb and the anapest, the two most common "feet" in english, guess what came first? There are other patterns, but the human mind starts calling it quits after five. That piece was a walk through, the only challenge was denoting everything and making it as absurd as possible. I scare myself sometime. Humour helps. Brevity too.
I did write it partially for you, it's a situational awareness piece.
Look, I'm impressed by your progress, you take some of this shit run it through your process, in what ever direction you want to go you'll do well.
Keep your eyes and ears open.
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:55 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Angeline View Post
I hope you come back twelve. We don't always agree but your voice is strong for your points and people learn from them. I respect that as I think you know. And really todski is right, fuck anon. Anon is just another troll.

ah, thanks, but I haven't really read anything in four years, and since annaswirls and WickedEve leaving, this really isn't my venue. I have two more poems which are upsetting the natural order, but other than that...feel my time better spent elsewhere.
Todski, Harry, if it is the poem that talks to you, interrogate it, in doing so you find stuff you can use,
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Old 07-31-2013, 11:46 PM   #80
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stupid post

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Old 08-01-2013, 06:47 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by twelveoone View Post
I admire a guy that can take a punch, and throw one back. The anon, could care less, I get tired of the presumptions, and laziness. I'm going to throw you a very elemental set of keys. That poem - I sucker punched the audience three times and waked away. The king of france, I break the fourth wall, everybody killed, and I feel alone and cold? Really?
Here is the key, there is a pattern of two's and three's in most poetry, the pattern is somehow offset, heart used twice, two different ways, duck three times, two different ways. Two premonitions, one I tell you about, because it was so absurd (cueing the audience - look I know this shit ain't happening, it's gonna get worse, so I'm warning you)
As I pace, peering though poet's eyes at a race between the grotesque and grandiose, but Where is the gobbledygook? and so on and so forth.
3 p's, 2 gr's lead to a frustrated g (without the r, but then another g)
2's and 3's, the iamb and the anapest, the two most common "feet" in english, guess what came first? There are other patterns, but the human mind starts calling it quits after five. That piece was a walk through, the only challenge was denoting everything and making it as absurd as possible. I scare myself sometime. Humour helps. Brevity too.
I did write it partially for you, it's a situational awareness piece.
Look, I'm impressed by your progress, you take some of this shit run it through your process, in what ever direction you want to go you'll do well.
Keep your eyes and ears open.
Thank you for the high praise. I read that piece over and over again, I kinda got it, but didn't it was skimming out of my reach. Now that you have pointed out the keys I will re-read it again and agin till I get the sucker punch. I found it amusing but could't figure out why.
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Old 08-01-2013, 01:34 PM   #82
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ah, thanks, but I haven't really read anything in four years, and since annaswirls and WickedEve leaving, this really isn't my venue. I have two more poems which are upsetting the natural order, but other than that...feel my time better spent elsewhere.
Todski, Harry, if it is the poem that talks to you, interrogate it, in doing so you find stuff you can use,
journey well, and come back from time to time, ok? you'll be deeply missed.
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:50 PM   #83
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The problem is the words, not the ideas. You use cliches, migraines tend to follow.

Try writing a good poem about the sea without using any cliches or even the words sea, ocean, wave, sand, beach or water etc.. That will take you interesting places when you find ways to make the meaning clear without what are basically crutch words, y'know? "Azure" is not a bad word in and of itself. You just have to find the right place for it and it's not where you usually think.
*Simple things*

Sipping my beer on a lazy sunday
The clouds gently floating in the sky
temperate and perfect

Undulating movement, gentle rock
soothing sway, at one with this expanse
colours swirl, change
tints tinge and shift

Greens, blues, blacks
all meaninglessly mingle
The horizon punctuates
an exclamation point

Reflecting on the calm polished surface
Relax, enjoy the sights and sounds
of that which caresses continents.
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:10 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todski28 View Post
*Simple things*

Sipping my beer on a lazy sunday
The clouds gently floating in the sky
temperate and perfect

Undulating movement, gentle rock
soothing sway, at one with this expanse
colours swirl, change
tints tinge and shift

Greens, blues, blacks
all meaninglessly mingle
The horizon punctuates
an exclamation point

Reflecting on the calm polished surface
Relax, enjoy the sights and sounds
of that which caresses continents.
love 'caresses continents'
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They say a smile is a gift which is free to the giver and precious to the recipient.
But giving the finger is free, too, and I find it more personal and sincere.
If at first you don't succeed....skydiving is not for you ....
If you don't pay your exorcist .... do you get repossessed?
I shall always decide not to decide, unless of course I decide to change my mind.
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:38 PM   #85
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love 'caresses continents'
i'll second that, todski!

i'm enjoying your writing, which shows improvements time after time. Harry was another who grew really quickly here. just goes to show what a good place this is for newcomers who are looking for more than just applause.
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Old 08-02-2013, 05:48 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by todski28 View Post
*Simple things*

Sipping my beer on a lazy sunday
The clouds gently floating in the sky
temperate and perfect

Undulating movement, gentle rock
soothing sway, at one with this expanse
colours swirl, change
tints tinge and shift

Greens, blues, blacks
all meaninglessly mingle
The horizon punctuates
an exclamation point

Reflecting on the calm polished surface
Relax, enjoy the sights and sounds
of that which caresses continents.
You've got the right idea and there's a lot to like here. I agree with Annie that "caresses continents" is a wonderful image. And "meaninglessly mingle" is an alliteration that is also meaningful in the context of your theme. Now I'm going to nitpick and if it helps great and if not, no worries.

Most in need of revision, I think, is the title and the first few lines because it's not till line 4 that I know you're watching the sea. If you hadn't quoted my post, so that I knew that's what you were writing about, I'd have read it as a poem about a guy looking at clouds. I think the best way around that is to get something oceany in the title. If you did that, then you wouldn't have to do anything to the first three lines. You see? It's confusing to start a poem about the sea with the first strong image being the sky.

There's also a problem with "gentle rock" because now for me, the reader, the point of view has changed. If there's a rock and a sway the the narrator must be on the water, not watching it from land. But I think I need to know that sooner, too. Maybe not if you revise the title to get both sea and boat across though...

And I'm having trouble with the exclamation point image because the horizon is horizontal. The sunset (with the dropping Sun) could look like it's punctuating the horizon but the result still would not be an exclamation point. That, imo, is an easy fix.

Finally try to find a way to turn those last two lines from telling to showing. You're part of the way there with "caressing continents." Instead of an imperative (Relax! Enjoy...) create the image of relaxing and enjoying the experience. Show what it looks like instead of saying what it is. And then replace "of that which" with something more in the spirit of the rest of the poem.

I know you a little better now and that you want detailed feedback, when possible, so that's my take.



PS I have begun to hate adverbs in my own writing but I think that's just my preference so I didn't want to rant about them in someone else's poems!
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:38 PM   #87
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Thank you for the positive encouragement.

I love the feedback it is a lot of time on people's part and I appreciate the unselfishness of the time put into it. I did think of shuffling the stanzas I was trying to give the impression of lying down relaxing under which is what gave me the though of an exclamation point. Which is also why the clouds were mentioned. I am trying to get my head around show don't tell. Thanks to your help I am getting more confident. Each poem is experimenting with different things. Believe me without feedback my poetry would still be full of long winded explanations.

Ummmm I'm not sure what an ad-verb is

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Old 08-02-2013, 08:51 PM   #88
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Ooops I saw the 'exclamation point' as the sail of a boat on the horizon!
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Blessed are the cracked for it is they that let in the light
They say a smile is a gift which is free to the giver and precious to the recipient.
But giving the finger is free, too, and I find it more personal and sincere.
If at first you don't succeed....skydiving is not for you ....
If you don't pay your exorcist .... do you get repossessed?
I shall always decide not to decide, unless of course I decide to change my mind.
....But I, being poor, have only my dreams, I have spread my dreams under your feet,Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.......
Nil Caborundum illigitimi
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:11 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by todski28 View Post
Thank you for the positive encouragement.

I love the feedback it is a lot of time on people's part and I appreciate the unselfishness of the time put into it. I did think of shuffling the stanzas I was trying to give the impression of lying down relaxing under which is what gave me the though of an exclamation point. Which is also why the clouds were mentioned. I am trying to get my head around show don't tell. Thanks to your help I am getting more confident. Each poem is experimenting with different things. Believe me without feedback my poetry would still be full of long winded explanations.
You are an incredibly fast learner and believe me when I say I'm not just being nice! And the show don't tell thing is one of the hardest to learn in poetry in my opinion. I struggle with it all the time. After a while though one gets better at recognizing the difference, but it's insidious and can creep into a poem. Boy do I know that.

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Originally Posted by UnderYourSpell View Post
Ooops I saw the 'exclamation point' as the sail of a boat on the horizon!
Well maybe I was wrong then and it's my oops!
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:37 AM   #90
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Talking

I love the different interpretations of the writing, I tried to not use boat as well just to see if I could make it translate as well. I guess I kinda got there I will revise soon.
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Old 08-04-2013, 01:02 AM   #91
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*In the midst of blue*

Laying back sipping my beer,
a lazy day
Undulating movement,
gentle rock and soothing sway
at one with the expanses

Clouds hang weightlessly,
a tapestry reflected
in twin skies
the sun doubled

Colours swirl and change
tints, tinge and shift
greens, blues blacks
all mingle meaninglessly

From my side the
horizon punctuates
an exclamation point
on a land mass

Another sip of beer,
cool, bitter sweet
lounging in
temperate splendour

beams of light glowing
like a proud father
invisible eddies of breath
like a gentle lover
the expanse of blue
caresses continents
like a fussing mother

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Old 12-17-2013, 11:47 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todski28
Twilight that infinitesimal place
between night and day,
you remind me of
darkness and light,
bound together in a moment
photographed on your soul
dancing between the setting
of the sun and
the rising of the moon
..
Thought it would be a good time to examine Tod's poetry again, with the poet's permission to consider how a simple invitation became an invocation to join in a moment. *reads back, groans, press send*
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Old 12-17-2013, 06:58 PM   #93
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all good, you are welcome to ask any question, query, swear etc, etc, you have my full permission with any poem I write Harry, I respect your poetry and the I believe similar development paths we have wandered down.
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Old 12-17-2013, 07:57 PM   #94
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all good, you are welcome to ask any question, query, swear etc, etc, you have my full permission with any poem I write Harry, I respect your poetry and the I believe similar development paths we have wandered down.
Fuck! ect, ect. ahh, that feels better.
..
Twilight(, infinitesimal place)
between night and day,
reminds me of
darkness and light,
bound together, (a moment)
photographed on your soul
dancing between the setting
sun and rising of the moon
..
I just took out a little not much fat on it. what do you think?
you want to try the rest?
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"True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read."- Pliny the Elder
"Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world."- The Budda
"I'll never be a poet" - The Harry
"You are not the whim of a careless creator, experimenting in the laboratory of life... you were made with a purpose"."-Og Mandino
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:12 PM   #95
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much better with the trim I think,
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:29 PM   #96
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My two cents, tod, given what ishtat said and my comments, if either made any sense to you:

The quicksilver twilight
between night and day,
reminds me of
darkness and light,
bound together, (a moment)
photographed on your soul
dancing between the setting
sun and rising of the moon

I'm not sure if lines 2 through 8 are your original ones or some with Harry's changes, but I like them, inclusive of the parenthetical, which would not have had the same effect audibly, but nonetheless triggered "stop and look" for me as contrasted with quicksilver, that is, as is in mercurial.

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Old 12-17-2013, 09:28 PM   #97
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My two cents, tod, given what ishtat said and my comments, if either made any sense to you:

The quicksilver twilight
between night and day,
reminds me of
darkness and light,
bound together, (a moment)
photographed on your soul
dancing between the setting
sun and rising of the moon

I'm not sure if lines 2 through 8 are your original ones or some with Harry's changes, but I like them, inclusive of the parenthetical, which would not have had the same effect audibly, but nonetheless triggered "stop and look" for me as contrasted with quicksilver, that is, as is in mercurial.
..
The parenthesis were where I omitted words and not meant to be included in a final edit if such ever happens or is desired. I like mercurial such a twisty word
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"True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read."- Pliny the Elder
"Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world."- The Budda
"I'll never be a poet" - The Harry
"You are not the whim of a careless creator, experimenting in the laboratory of life... you were made with a purpose"."-Og Mandino
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:53 PM   #98
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Novcaine for the Mind .... Because We ALL NEED That Sometimes ...

Have to thank OP, don't know exactly why, but for me your poetry just left me with a mind a little less cluttered, and a little more centered. I would not dare to rend the loins of such prose! Bravo !

In the Spirit of the season, I offer in return, my all time favorite from Yates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mekDWywxGQ

Last edited by Sasha69 : 12-17-2013 at 09:56 PM. Reason: spellig
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Old 12-18-2013, 12:12 AM   #99
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Creating Shadows: S2

why transition to night
when we can bridge (bright)
and shade
complexities in charms
wrapped in (arms of lovers,)
(coloured by) happenstance,
whole in substance,
passion(s) red sky
in twilights eye
hang(s) between the time
of shadow and light(.)
(S)uspend me in your colours(.)
..
If I'm overstepping please say so. not a lot changed except for some sounds within the lines.
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"True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read."- Pliny the Elder
"Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world."- The Budda
"I'll never be a poet" - The Harry
"You are not the whim of a careless creator, experimenting in the laboratory of life... you were made with a purpose"."-Og Mandino
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Old 12-18-2013, 12:17 AM   #100
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Creating Shadows: S2

why transition to night
when we can bridge (bright)
and shade
complexities in charms
wrapped in (arms of lovers,)
(coloured by) happenstance,
whole in substance,
passion(s) red sky
in twilights eye
hang(s) between the time
of shadow and light(.)
(S)uspend me in your colours(.)
..
If I'm overstepping please say so. not a lot changed except for some sounds within the lines.
consider it free range on any of my poetry harry it is not an overstep, others comments, thoughts and opinions have shaped where I am currently at, I weigh all opinions on my work and try to improve on it, without hours of research and possibly going back to school, neither of which I have the time for I am building based on opinions from here.
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