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Angeline

Angeline

Poet Chick
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Posts
27,333
Ok, we're interviewing not recording but at least I alliterated.

Tristesse2 (my pillow-talk name for her is PoeTess, which apparently has some UK scatological reference but she doesn't mind) has been here at least since 2003. She has 156 poetry submissions that include regular, illustrated and audio poems. (She also, by the by, has a lovely voice.)

This thread is for us to ask her questions or just talk to her about her poems. You really can say anything (well as long as you're civil: our standards are low here but we do appreciate basic civility). Tristesse has bravely offered herself and her poems up for this adventure. Of course just as you have the option of asking whatever you like, she can (and I suspect, will) answer in kind.

I'll stick this thread for one week to keep it readily accessible to everyone. Maybe then (when she's really sick of answering questions) we can find another willing...er...participant.

I shall start this off in my next post. Please feel free to jump in and join the party.

Remember, it's all about Tristesse2
 
Night Train

Night Train was posted a little over a year ago and earned a well-deserved E.

To me this poem is a good example of what I love about your writing, Tess. Your narrative style is painterly and evocative because you draw on many senses. Here's an example of what I mean~

Her window glowed, a sullen, bloody red
and she kneeled at the sill as if in prayer
to watch the wind lift the flames
fringed with sparks dancing
in the dark sky, jittery stars that died
and fell back to earth, black flakes.

I can see, smell and hear this, feel the heat (and later when the main subject coughs from the burn in her throat I can taste it). That all works together beautifully.

What was the inspiration for this poem? How long did you work on it before posting it (just curious)? It's so passionate and I wondered whether it's something you experienced, a historical event or did you use some combination of reading and experience to make it work so well? :)
 
Now I'm gonna try to channel my sonics muse. Why do I love these lines so?

in the dark sky, jittery stars that died
and fell back to earth, black flakes.

There is so much happening in them:

sky/died
dark/stars
fell/earth
back/black/flakes

and of course "jittery" which means shaky, fidgety, or (more generally) interruptive interrupts the more evenly paced rythm of the rest of the line it's in. Was that a conscious choice, Tess? It works brilliantly.
 
Thank you for this thread - I think, my immediate reaction is to run and hide but I will take a deep breath and do my best not to flub my lines. As I said to you, Ange, in our private convos, I’m totally ignorant and uneducated in literature, especially poetry although I have always enjoyed reading, no courses concentrating on those subjects .

I was a visual artist (unprofessional) and could no longer use pencil or brush without a great deal of frustration for health reasons (M.S.). Rather than give up the need to express I turned to poetry, found this site and the rest is history.

Angeline said:
Night Train was posted a little over a year ago.

What was the inspiration for this poem? How long did you work on it before posting it (just curious)? It's so passionate and I wondered whether it's something you experienced, a historical event or did you use some combination of reading and experience to make it work so well? :)
Click to expand...

Inspiration - I remember my mother describing the fires caused by steam trains and the farmers frantically beating the flames. Perhaps she was particularly dramatic in the telling but it has stuck with me since.

Gestation period – It’s hard to remember after all this time. I make notes on an idea which might sit, untouched for months then get an idea for an angle – in this case, through a child’s eyes.

Angeline said:
Now I'm gonna try to channel my sonics muse. Why do I love these lines so?

in the dark sky, jittery stars that died
and fell back to earth, black flakes.

There is so much happening in them:

sky/died
dark/stars
fell/earth
back/black/flakes

and of course "jittery" which means shaky, fidgety, or (more generally) interruptive interrupts the more evenly paced rythm of the rest of the line it's in. Was that a conscious choice, Tess? It works brilliantly.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Ange, but again I really can’t remember. I say my lines aloud as they accumulate, perhaps that helps. Conscious or not? I really don’t know.
 
Angie's comment about painting reminded me, Tess, of a poem of yours I had marked as a favorite: Cornish Coastal Road

For me it evoked meaning beyond the images you painted with your words and reminded me of the Imagist notion of direct treatment of "the thing" that took me on my own journey.

I'm curious to know your journey that prompted this poem and what you may have hoped the reader would take from it.
 
hope to come back tomorrow after delving into your writes so as to have something to say, but - for now - i want to ask you this, Tess:

do you get 'itchy' or angsty when some time has elapsed since your last write, like something's building and is almost ready to get onto the page?

do you tend to find it easier to write from one inspirational spark or from forethought, considering (perhaps) a challenge prompt?

do you get those dry stretches so many are familiar with, and how do you handle them if so?
 
greenmountaineer said:
Angie's comment about painting reminded me, Tess, of a poem of yours I had marked as a favorite: Cornish Coastal Road

For me it evoked meaning beyond the images you painted with your words and reminded me of the Imagist notion of direct treatment of "the thing" that took me on my own journey.

I'm curious to know your journey that prompted this poem and what you may have hoped the reader would take from it.
Click to expand...

Firstly let me thank you for picking one of my poems as a favourite.

I never really think of myself as any particular school of poetry but, on reading this.....

From an Imagist manifesto:

1.To use the language of common speech, but to employ the exact
word, not the nearly-exact, nor the merely decorative word.

2.We believe that the individuality of a poet may often be better
expressed in free verse than in conventional forms. In poetry, a new
cadence means a new idea.

3.Absolute freedom in the choice of subject.

4.To present an image. We are not a school of painters, but we
believe that poetry should render particulars exactly and not deal in
vague generalities, however magnificent and sonorous. It is for this
reason that we oppose the cosmic poet, who seems to us to shirk the real
difficulties of his art.

5.To produce a poetry that is hard and clear, never blurred nor
indefinite.

6.Finally, most of us believe that concentration is of the very
essence of poetry.

....perhaps I am because that is almost exactly what I aim for in my writing.

The inspiration for Cornish Coastal Road grew from childhood holidays and a job I had in my student years in N. Cornwall, remote, wild and windswept.

I hoped to convey both the mood of the place and the mystery which I found palpable.

As these older poems reappear I see so many flaws but I could never look at a finished painting of mine and feel a closure so I'm not surprised. :)
 
Tristesse2 said:
I’m totally ignorant and uneducated in literature, especially poetry although I have always enjoyed reading, no courses concentrating on those subjects .
Click to expand...
I take issue with the word "totally".
This surprises me a little. Just a little. I see no "templates" in your work, but your work is very balanced, avoiding the pitfalls. I would use the analogy of a tight rope walker, precarious at times. Perhaps, that is what makes it so interesting. So fresh.

There is one habit you have that bothers me a little. "Suffixing". From one poem.
blackened, cruelly, starved, seasoned, suppression, Cowed, shifting, threaten daily, seeking - allow for the need of half, I think you should be aware of this. It softens the impact. However, at times you do this, and it seems like just the right thing to do.


Q. At your leisure, since you do New Poems, what do you look for?

ps. I reserve the right to continue in the other two threads
 
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I like your new label,butters and look forward to any further in put from you.

butters said:
do you get 'itchy' or angsty when some time has elapsed since your last write, like something's building and is almost ready to get onto the page?
Click to expand...

I have long periods of poetic non-productivity, sometimes as long as a year but I’m usually writing something so I try not to panic but I’ll come in here and get intimidated. As I said to Ange, I have a couple of files I use as crutches, one just of words I feel might be useful the other phrases, heard or read which strike me as poetic - or possibly so. I only really get twitchy during challenges, luckily the one-a-week challenge has prompted my muse but Lauren’s challenge brought me to my knees. The o-a-w challenge may yet do the same.

butters said:
do you tend to find it easier to write from one inspirational spark or from forethought, considering (perhaps) a challenge prompt?
Click to expand...

Some challenges really poke me but others don’t appeal so I take advantage of those that do. They’ll often give me the seed of a poem. My inspiration for past poems have come from news paper articles, T.V.,books I’m reading at the time, memories and conversations.

butters said:
do you get those dry stretches so many are familiar with, and how do you handle them if so?
Click to expand...

I’m always certain a dry spell, like a mild depression, will end sooner or later so I just use what tools I have to nudge it.
 
twelveoone said:
I take issue with the word "totally".
This surprises me a little. Just a little. I see no "templates" in your work, but your work is very balanced, avoiding the pitfalls. I would use the analogy of a tight rope walker, precarious at times. Perhaps, that is what makes it so interesting. So fresh.

There is one habit you have that bothers me a little. "Suffixing". From one poem.
blackened, cruelly, starved, seasoned, suppression, Cowed, shifting, threaten daily, seeking - allow for the need of half, I think you should be aware of this. It softens the impact. However, at times you do this, and it seems like just the right thing to do.
Click to expand...

Ah, yes. Coastal Cornish Road for those who want to know. Could you indicate which half could be discarded please? I’m aware of my taste for the suffix; it’s my last little dab of paint, as you say sometimes it works sometimes it’s one dab too many.

twelveoone said:
Q. At your leisure, since you do New Poems, what do you look for?
Click to expand...

I look at every poem appearing on Thursdays but look for something new, an original idea, a new approach or angle and/or something that engages me. Most doggerel leaves me cold and originality is rare but it’s there.

twelveoone said:
ps. I reserve the right to continue in the other two threads
Click to expand...

Of course. :)
 
Tristesse2 said:
I’m aware of my taste for the suffix; it’s my last little dab of paint, as you say sometimes it works sometimes it’s one dab too many.
Click to expand...
OK,
and small memory, about 8-9 years ago you had a poem about a poem (which I generally despise) where you were going to tuck it away in a drawer with it's sisters. Reading it then I wanted to put my arms around you and say, only lying a little, now, now tess, the poem wasn't that bad.
Points, I remembered it, and your work is so goddamn seductive, even the stuff I don't like, I like. Somehow.
 
twelveoone said:
OK,
and small memory, about 8-9 years ago you had a poem about a poem (which I generally despise) where you were going to tuck it away in a drawer with it's sisters. Reading it then I wanted to put my arms around you and say, only lying a little, now, now tess, the poem wasn't that bad.
Points, I remembered it, and your work is so goddamn seductive, even the stuff I don't like, I like. Somehow.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I think, it's very kind of you. Was this the poem that made you feel sorry for me? If so perhaps it bears revisiting with my red pen.

diffidence

Where will I take this poem,
to a dusty drawer of whispering older sisters,
a leather-bound book
with tiny lock and
gilt-edged pages or
to your unenthusiastic ear?

If I read it will you hear
and understand
or will I seem obtuse,
a stranger to you?

Perhaps the words will languish,
shallow-breathing,
in the dark until
the paper yellows and the words fade
to silence.

I guard it in my heart
deciding not to share
and for a moment I ache.
 
Tristesse2 said:
Thank you, I think, it's very kind of you. Was this the poem that made you feel sorry for me? If so perhaps it bears revisiting with my red pen.

diffidence

Where will I take this poem,
to a dusty drawer of whispering older sisters,
a leather-bound book
with tiny lock and
gilt-edged pages or
to your unenthusiastic ear?

If I read it will you hear
and understand
or will I seem obtuse,
a stranger to you?

Perhaps the words will languish,
shallow-breathing,
in the dark until
the paper yellows and the words fade
to silence.

I guard it in my heart
deciding not to share
and for a moment I ache.
Click to expand...

It doesn't need much. I agree with 1201 to the extent that poems about poetry are hard to make work, but you did it in this one. To me it's effective because it's evocative (something you do so well), and because it's personalized and honest.

Here's a few thoughts about changes that might work:

1) End S1L1 with a question mark. The rest of the strophe (which I love) won't be a complete sentence, but (if it works better that way) who cares in a poem? And another question mark there may enhance the plaintive quality of the piece.

2) End S1L2 at "whispering" and move "older sisters" down to start the next line.

3) Maybe replace the "and" in S1L4 with a comma.

4) Who is the "you" in S2L1? It sounds as if you're referring to someone specific. but that person is only there in the poem in that "you," so maybe open it up by changing it to "anyone."

5) Again in S2L2 you may not need the "and." A comma might suffice (but that's something I often like to do so maybe I'm projecting). :D

6) In S3L2 I think you can lose the comma after "shallow-breathing" because it's not going to pose a grammatical problem (except for ocd editors who don't count lol) and you gain the possibility of interpreting it two ways (shallow-breathing OR shallow-breathing in the dark). Whether you revise or not, it's a great image.

7) I'm not sure "and the words fade to silence" is necessary. This may totally be a preference on my part, but maybe say it another way: it sounds a bit cliched to me.

8) I like your last strophe a lot. I'd put a period after "share" and then: "For a moment I ache."



Oh and here's my question. What music are you listening to these days. Anyone you'd like to recommend?

:rose::heart::rose:
 
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there's something very honest, very . . . almost about your piece almost

the lips, eyes, hands, eyes again - the pull and the denial, the might-have-been

how do you really feel, as a poem's creator, about the suggestions for changes you get? do you find it easy to return and make alterations based on others comments, or is it something you find yourself struggling with? is it a matter of time, or a case of when a piece is done it's time to move on, taking the comments with you for future reference, future writes?

this is a question i could ask absolutely everyone, being curious, as i find the ways poets write a fascinating study.
 
Angeline said:
It doesn't need much. I agree with 1201 to the extent that poems about poetry are hard to make work, but you did it in this one. To me it's effective because it's evocative (something you do so well), and because it's personalized and honest.

Here's a few thoughts about changes that might work:

1) End S1L1 with a question mark. The rest of the strophe (which I love) won't be a complete sentence, but (if it works better that way) who cares in a poem? And another question mark there may enhance the plaintive quality of the piece.

2) End S1L2 at "whispering" and move "older sisters" down to start the next line.

3) Maybe replace the "and" in S1L4 with a comma.

4) Who is the "you" in S2L1? It sounds as if you're referring to someone specific. but that person is only there in the poem in that "you," so maybe open it up by changing it to "anyone."

5) Again in S2L2 you may not need the "and." A comma might suffice (but that's something I often like to do so maybe I'm projecting). :D

6) In S3L2 I think you can lose the comma after "shallow-breathing" because it's not going to pose a grammatical problem (except for ocd editors who don't count lol) and you gain the possibility of interpreting it two ways (shallow-breathing OR shallow-breathing in the dark). Whether you revise or not, it's a great image.

7) I'm not sure "and the words fade to silence" is necessary. This may totally be a preference on my part, but maybe say it another way: it sounds a bit cliched to me.

8) I like your last strophe a lot. I'd put a period after "share" and then: "For a moment I ache."



Oh and here's my question. What music are you listening to these days. Anyone you'd like to recommend?

:rose::heart::rose:
Click to expand...


At first glance all your suggestions look good and I'll post the edited results here later, many thanks.

Music? My tastes are very eclectic, from classical to rock, jazz to ethnic. It might be easier to say what I don't like :), my mood sets my play list.

If I play any music while writing it is usually classical, growing up we were steeped in the classics as our step-father was a pianist and conductor. I’m married to a jazz musician but loved jazz even before we met.

Today I have Grieg in my ear - The Holberg Suite. Knowing your love of Lester Young I recommend Harry Allen - and to anyone who enjoys jazz.
 
butters said:
there's something very honest, very . . . almost about your piece almost

the lips, eyes, hands, eyes again - the pull and the denial, the might-have-been

how do you really feel, as a poem's creator, about the suggestions for changes you get? do you find it easy to return and make alterations based on others comments, or is it something you find yourself struggling with? is it a matter of time, or a case of when a piece is done it's time to move on, taking the comments with you for future reference, future writes?

this is a question i could ask absolutely everyone, being curious, as i find the ways poets write a fascinating study.
Click to expand...

I am very grateful for all and any suggestions. I will weigh them and use them if I can see an improvement but if I feel the changes alter my meaning or the mood of the piece I will leave it alone.

The suggestions given as comments on a submitted poem in “New Poems” are harder to facilitate because of the slightly onerous method of editing so I’ll often just take note of the advice to use later but leave the poem as is.

It has taken me years to feel justified in holding my own, more or less, confidently and I thank Pat Carrington, Angeline, Eve, fly guy among others for getting me there. I really believe that reading other poets here and taking advice has been my poetic education for which I'm eternally grateful.
 
Tristesse2 said:
I am very grateful for all and any suggestions. I will weigh them and use them if I can see an improvement but if I feel the changes alter my meaning or the mood of the piece I will leave it alone.

The suggestions given as comments on a submitted poem in “New Poems” are harder to facilitate because of the slightly onerous method of editing so I’ll often just take note of the advice to use later but leave the poem as is.

It has taken me years to feel justified in holding my own, more or less, confidently and I thank Pat Carrington, Angeline, Eve, fly guy among others for getting me there. I really believe that reading other poets here and taking advice has been my poetic education for which I'm eternally grateful.
Click to expand...

I feel the same about this, and am so grateful to you and the other poets you mentioned and so many others, both here and gone. Words really cannot express for me what it has meant over the years to be in this intensive poetry lab with the same group of people, pretty much, most of whom I've never met.

We become family, as loving and dysfunctional as any family. Anyone who perseveres here, hangs around and really opens up to learning, comes to recognize this. We're not a clique or an oval or whatever flavor of the month people choose. We're a family.
 
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Not only

is your poem Baby Pictures of Famous Dictators one of the best titles ever, it is a fine example of how to write a form poem without the form getting in the way of the poem.

However did you come up with the idea for this provocative poem, both the theme and the title? I remember when you first wrote it (for Lauren's killer poetry survivor challenge), and have always wondered. It's such an offbeat but interesting perspective.

You posted the poem in 2009. Do you ever go back to old poems and rework them, maybe edit them or even save parts of them for other, newer pieces? How do you know when your poem is finished?
 
Angeline said:
is your poem Baby Pictures of Famous Dictators one of the best titles ever, it is a fine example of how to write a form poem without the form getting in the way of the poem.

However did you come up with the idea for this provocative poem, both the theme and the title? I remember when you first wrote it (for Lauren's killer poetry survivor challenge), and have always wondered. It's such an offbeat but interesting perspective.

You posted the poem in 2009. Do you ever go back to old poems and rework them, maybe edit them or even save parts of them for other, newer pieces? How do you know when your poem is finished?
Click to expand...

The title was trigger 46 in Laurens great challenge so the theme was set. I remember the form was a sonnet I wasn't familiar with but it just came together.

Once my poems have been included in the New Poems I seldom go back to them but I have removed a few for submission elsewhere. Those get a buffing but otherwise, no. That reminds me, I should re-submit them.

I hate to fiddle but often can't resist and then I can't stop. I'll do one final read-through and cut it loose.
 
Tristesse2 said:
The title was trigger 46 in Laurens great challenge so the theme was set. I remember the form was a sonnet I wasn't familiar with but it just came together.

Once my poems have been included in the New Poems I seldom go back to them but I have removed a few for submission elsewhere. Those get a buffing but otherwise, no. That reminds me, I should re-submit them.

I hate to fiddle but often can't resist and then I can't stop. I'll do one final read-through and cut it loose.
Click to expand...

Ah the twisted mind of La Hynde. Of course. :D

You did a great job with it. It reminded me of a scene (weird comparison coming but stay with me lol) from the novel A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. The protagonist sees an old, decrepit man and is disgusted by the way he looks, then imagines him as a baby with his mother lovingly bathing him. It's a very powerful bit of writing and your poem explored its theme with the same effect. It is one of your poems that always stayed with me.

Another one I love I think is not here anymore (or I didn't look hard enough). It's an illustrated poem with a drawing of a girl reading. You know the one? The drawing and the poem were beautiful together.
 
Your bar series is really good. I didn't quite get it at first, but now that the pieces are all coming together I see how special it is. Any chance you could maybe number the titles or do something to force the reader to see them in the order you intend? Just a thought but I found it helpful to read them in a particular order and then understand who the narrator is and whose stories he is telling.
 
Tristesse2 said:
Thank you, I think, it's very kind of you. Was this the poem that made you feel sorry for me? If so perhaps it bears revisiting with my red pen.

diffidence

Where will I take this poem,
to a dusty drawer of whispering older sisters,
...
Click to expand...
I seem to remember one, where this was at the end.
 
Angeline said:
Ah the twisted mind of La Hynde. Of course. :D

Another one I love I think is not here anymore (or I didn't look hard enough). It's an illustrated poem with a drawing of a girl reading. You know the one? The drawing and the poem were beautiful together.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I know the one you mean, "Between the Covers" about a child reading in bed but I only have a really bad copy of the sketch and I no longer have the original. The poem by itself is pretty bland.

Between the Covers

It’s a place I loved,
Love,
Even now.

Snug in the circle of warm light
Bent knees
A lectern holding a world
I’d never see
But visited every night.

The secret skiff to carry me there
Lay moored
By my bedside
Sweetly fresh from my bath
I would scramble between
Cool sheets
The vessel opening obligingly
Inviting me on board
Sweeping me away.

Today no one calls
“Lights out”
No need to plead for
“One more minute”
I sail on until eyes get heavy or
I wake later
With the rudderless vessel
Stranded
On my chest.​


Angeline said:
Your bar series is really good. I didn't quite get it at first, but now that the pieces are all coming together I see how special it is. Any chance you could maybe number the titles or do something to force the reader to see them in the order you intend? Just a thought but I found it helpful to read them in a particular order and then understand who the narrator is and whose stories he is telling.
Click to expand...

I did try and am hoping TPTB will make the whole sequence a series for me. I do see what you mean in your comment about the barman's voice not being present in the Interior poem and will rethink it. I will also revisit the Regulars for a bit of a buff.
 
Angeline said:
It doesn't need much. I agree with 1201 to the extent that poems about poetry are hard to make work, but you did it in this one. To me it's effective because it's evocative (something you do so well), and because it's personalized and honest.

Here's a few thoughts about changes that might work:

1) End S1L1 with a question mark. The rest of the strophe (which I love) won't be a complete sentence, but (if it works better that way) who cares in a poem? And another question mark there may enhance the plaintive quality of the piece.

2) End S1L2 at "whispering" and move "older sisters" down to start the next line.

3) Maybe replace the "and" in S1L4 with a comma.

4) Who is the "you" in S2L1? It sounds as if you're referring to someone specific. but that person is only there in the poem in that "you," so maybe open it up by changing it to "anyone."

5) Again in S2L2 you may not need the "and." A comma might suffice (but that's something I often like to do so maybe I'm projecting). :D

6) In S3L2 I think you can lose the comma after "shallow-breathing" because it's not going to pose a grammatical problem (except for ocd editors who don't count lol) and you gain the possibility of interpreting it two ways (shallow-breathing OR shallow-breathing in the dark). Whether you revise or not, it's a great image.

7) I'm not sure "and the words fade to silence" is necessary. This may totally be a preference on my part, but maybe say it another way: it sounds a bit cliched to me.

8) I like your last strophe a lot. I'd put a period after "share" and then: "For a moment I ache."


rose::heart::rose:
Click to expand...


diffidence - Redux

Where will I take this poem?
To a dusty drawer of whispering
older sisters, a leather-bound
book with tiny lock,
gilt-edged pages or
to your unenthusiastic ear?

If I read it will you hear,
understand
or will I seem obtuse,
a stranger to you? (I’m leaving this as is, I think the tone indicates it’s someone close to the writer and someone who matters)

Perhaps the words will languish,
shallow-breathing
in the dark until
the paper yellows and the words fade
to silence. (here I was trying to play on “fade” – getting fainter, both the writing and sound-wise.)

I guard it in my heart
deciding not to share.
For a moment I ache.

I do think your suggestions improve it, the ideas I havent adopted I do appreciate but prefer to leave as is. Many thanks for your help with this and I hope it's helpful the others seeking to improve. :rose::rose:
 
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