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04-16-2013, 04:46 PM
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#51
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Really Really Experienced
Ironiclaconic is offline
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Posts: 346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruel2BKind
I wonder how long they are going to draw out Danaerys's story? Because she is my favorite character arc!
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My bet is she finally arrives in Westeros in book 6, but given Martin's fractal plot structure who the hell knows.
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04-16-2013, 04:50 PM
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#52
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I dream, therefore I am
LaRascasse is offline
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I'm stacking up all the episodes to see over the summer. I have heard good things about the ongoing season.
As for the books, they have a proud place on my Kindle. Just love the multiple subplots and the characters you can't love or hate. Eagerly awaiting The Winds of Winter.
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04-17-2013, 01:49 AM
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#53
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Able to Multiple Sarcasm
NekoParks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironiclaconic
Jon's parentage is one of the most discussed points about the books. I don't want to provide pseudo-spoilers, but there is a lot of subtle evidence in the books (anything to do with Robert's Rebellion and all dreams/prophecies) that has been parsed by fans, resulting in a dominant theory that is extremely convincing. Check out the forums on westeros.org if you are really curious. Or IM me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkVanDyck
I personally believe Jon IS Neds son, as for his part....Perhaps stannis is not R'hollor reborn even Melisandre Knows something is not quite right that maybe Jon fits that role better.
Let's not forget that all the Stark children including the bastard Jon are Wargs none of Roberts Bastards have shown or even been hinted at having that trait.
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I thought that Jon Snow was Ned's sister's child by Robert Baratheon, but that was only a passing impression. I could see Ned protecting Jon and lying about it being his son because Jon is his blood relative. Aren't the Baratheon male heirs being systematically assassinated? I'm new to GOT...only started reading the books after I saw the HBO series. Glad to know there are others who love the series... 
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04-17-2013, 07:12 AM
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#54
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Really Experienced
DirkVanDyck is offline
Join Date: Jan 2013
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Posts: 100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NekoParks
I thought that Jon Snow was Ned's sister's child by Robert Baratheon, but that was only a passing impression. I could see Ned protecting Jon and lying about it being his son because Jon is his blood relative. Aren't the Baratheon male heirs being systematically assassinated? I'm new to GOT...only started reading the books after I saw the HBO series. Glad to know there are others who love the series... 
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I'm unsure why people question Jobs parentage, I know we still are not 100% certain who his mother is but I honestly thought in the first book it was quite plan that Ned was his father. If Robert is/was his father why spend chapters of him prying and asking Ned who Jobs mother was. Is it a possibility that we are all trying to read more into this than there is???
I suggest getting through the books quickly as season three is bringing in characters not seen until book 5. I think that might ruin some of your reading.
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04-17-2013, 08:11 AM
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#55
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Literotica Guru
PennLady is offline
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 9,349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NekoParks
I thought that Jon Snow was Ned's sister's child by Robert Baratheon, but that was only a passing impression. I could see Ned protecting Jon and lying about it being his son because Jon is his blood relative. Aren't the Baratheon male heirs being systematically assassinated? I'm new to GOT...only started reading the books after I saw the HBO series. Glad to know there are others who love the series... 
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I don't think it was just male children, although it may have been. My impression was that all of Robert Baratheon's illegitimate children were killed/hunted, regardless of gender.
Enjoy the books.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkVanDyck
I'm unsure why people question Jobs parentage, I know we still are not 100% certain who his mother is but I honestly thought in the first book it was quite plan that Ned was his father. If Robert is/was his father why spend chapters of him prying and asking Ned who Jobs mother was. Is it a possibility that we are all trying to read more into this than there is???
I suggest getting through the books quickly as season three is bringing in characters not seen until book 5. I think that might ruin some of your reading.
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I have read all five books, but I can't cite specifics of why I thought something was awry with the story about Jon Snow. Some of it stemmed from the fact that it just seemed out of character for Ned, or the way he was portrayed. There were just other things sprinkled throughout that put me in doubt of it. Wish I could be more specific.
I don't know if there's such a hurry in reading the books. I've read that season three will only cover half of book three, and I've been wondering how they'll handle books four and five. I can see those demanding a total of four seasons. Which might give GRRM time enough to write the next book. 
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04-17-2013, 08:56 AM
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#56
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Really Experienced
DirkVanDyck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PennLady
I don't think it was just male children, although it may have been. My impression was that all of Robert Baratheon's illegitimate children were killed/hunted, regardless of gender.
Enjoy the books.
I have read all five books, but I can't cite specifics of why I thought something was awry with the story about Jon Snow. Some of it stemmed from the fact that it just seemed out of character for Ned, or the way he was portrayed. There were just other things sprinkled throughout that put me in doubt of it. Wish I could be more specific.
I don't know if there's such a hurry in reading the books. I've read that season three will only cover half of book three, and I've been wondering how they'll handle books four and five. I can see those demanding a total of four seasons. Which might give GRRM time enough to write the next book. 
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The problem I have with season three is that they have already brought Theon back in, that's really early if this season is half of book three then he should not be back for at least three more seasons(book 5), all I can think of is that they are really going to truncate the story lines, which might not be a bad thing once they get to book four! Plenty there they can miss out say about 90% of it 
Guess what my least favourite book is lol
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04-17-2013, 12:07 PM
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#57
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Literotica Guru
PennLady is offline
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkVanDyck
The problem I have with season three is that they have already brought Theon back in, that's really early if this season is half of book three then he should not be back for at least three more seasons(book 5), all I can think of is that they are really going to truncate the story lines, which might not be a bad thing once they get to book four! Plenty there they can miss out say about 90% of it 
Guess what my least favourite book is lol
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They have brought Theon back in, but perhaps it's not so much truncating stories in his case as it is giving us a little more info. He could, after all, disappear again. I have a bad habit, after reading books on a binge, of forgetting many details. So I can't recall if Theon simply disappeared for a bit in the books, or if this bit about him being tortured and rescued (at least for now) was in there.
The perils of borrowing books from the library.
Seems most people didn't like book four, but I didn't mind it. There were still interesting things going on.
My thoughts -- and this is based on nothing in particular -- is that when it comes to books four and five, they will be able to combine stuff on the TV series as GRRM did not in the books. There's no reason to have a television season or two without characters like Tyrion, Danaerys and Arya. And the story might flow better that way.
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04-17-2013, 01:36 PM
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#58
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Really Really Experienced
Ironiclaconic is offline
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkVanDyck
I'm unsure why people question Jobs parentage, I know we still are not 100% certain who his mother is but I honestly thought in the first book it was quite plan that Ned was his father. If Robert is/was his father why spend chapters of him prying and asking Ned who Jobs mother was. Is it a possibility that we are all trying to read more into this than there is???
I suggest getting through the books quickly as season three is bringing in characters not seen until book 5. I think that might ruin some of your reading.
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This is the tip of the iceberg, but the basic reasons for questioning Jon's parentage:
1) Out of character for Ned.
2) Everyone assumes different mothers and Ned never corrects or clarifies.
3) In his internal narration, Ned never calls Jon his son. He instead says "he is my blood".
4) lots of clues as to his parentage. Read carefully with regard to any flashback to events around Robert's rebellion, and any prophecy/ dream sequence. In particular, read Ned's flashbacks during the first book.
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04-17-2013, 01:41 PM
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#59
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Really Really Experienced
Ironiclaconic is offline
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Posts: 346
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As for Theon, so far they are showing things that are consistent with his flashbacks in book 5. No surprise that they needed to give the actor some work to do and not just tell him "see you in season six".
One of the most significant changes is the replacement of Jeyne Westerling with Talisa, eliminating the entire Westerling clan and all their juicy subplots.
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04-17-2013, 02:45 PM
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#60
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Not Quite Here
Cruel2BKind is offline
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironiclaconic
As for Theon, so far they are showing things that are consistent with his flashbacks in book 5. No surprise that they needed to give the actor some work to do and not just tell him "see you in season six".
One of the most significant changes is the replacement of Jeyne Westerling with Talisa, eliminating the entire Westerling clan and all their juicy subplots.
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In the books we just assumed that theon was dead for a while, and then
GASP OMG HE'S STILL ALIVE BUT NOW HE'S REEK
In the books he is such a sympathetic and pitiful character.
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04-17-2013, 03:42 PM
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#61
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Literotica Guru
PennLady is offline
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BTW -- any votes for a separate GoT thread where spoilers can be included, and so those who don't want them would know to avoid it?
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04-17-2013, 04:10 PM
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#62
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Not Quite Here
Cruel2BKind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PennLady
BTW -- any votes for a separate GoT thread where spoilers can be included, and so those who don't want them would know to avoid it?
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Nope. Spoilers galore!
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04-18-2013, 04:27 AM
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#64
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Really Experienced
DirkVanDyck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PennLady
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We all know the richest person in Westeros is Petyr Baelish. He's been skimming off the lannisters and everyone else for years. He really is the dark horse in the series we're too busy reading his creepy antics with Sansa to realise his got a long con on.
And spoiler away I say!!!!
That will teach people not to read books!
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04-18-2013, 04:34 AM
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#65
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Really Experienced
DirkVanDyck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironiclaconic
This is the tip of the iceberg, but the basic reasons for questioning Jon's parentage:
1) Out of character for Ned.
2) Everyone assumes different mothers and Ned never corrects or clarifies.
3) In his internal narration, Ned never calls Jon his son. He instead says "he is my blood".
4) lots of clues as to his parentage. Read carefully with regard to any flashback to events around Robert's rebellion, and any prophecy/ dream sequence. In particular, read Ned's flashbacks during the first book.
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Damn you you're going to make me want to re-read the whole series now and I have a backlog already to catch up on.
But...
1. The Ned of now probably would not sleep around but at the time of the rebellion...why not?
2. He never clarifies because it is no one else's business he even rebukes the King when he asks...if Robert is Jons father why ask?
3. Caetlyn despises Jon and never calls him son, years of that along with guilt could easily make Ned slip in to just calling him "my blood" rather than son.
4. Will have to re-read the rebellions...so you have me there.
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04-18-2013, 09:24 AM
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#66
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Really Really Experienced
Ironiclaconic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkVanDyck
Damn you you're going to make me want to re-read the whole series now and I have a backlog already to catch up on.
But...
1. The Ned of now probably would not sleep around but at the time of the rebellion...why not?
2. He never clarifies because it is no one else's business he even rebukes the King when he asks...if Robert is Jons father why ask?
3. Caetlyn despises Jon and never calls him son, years of that along with guilt could easily make Ned slip in to just calling him "my blood" rather than son.
4. Will have to re-read the rebellions...so you have me there.
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1,2,3 aren't definitive, but they prompt the reader that something may be up, which is where #4 comes into play. Re-read Ned's flashbacks and then Jojen Reed's recounting to Bran of Howland Reed's tale of the tournament at Harrenhal.
I am not a subscriber to the belief that Jon's father is Robert. There would have been no reason to keep that a secret from Robert.
These books significantly reward re-reading. Also, if you have not done so, find the Dunk and Egg stories (hedge knight, sworn sword, mystery knight), set ~80 years prior. They are excellent, with very tight stories that tie into SOIAF in surprising ways.
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04-18-2013, 09:37 AM
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#67
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Really Experienced
DirkVanDyck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironiclaconic
1,2,3 aren't definitive, but they prompt the reader that something may be up, which is where #4 comes into play. Re-read Ned's flashbacks and then Jojen Reed's recounting to Bran of Howland Reed's tale of the tournament at Harrenhal.
I am not a subscriber to the belief that Jon's father is Robert. There would have been no reason to keep that a secret from Robert.
These books significantly reward re-reading. Also, if you have not done so, find the Dunk and Egg stories (hedge knight, sworn sword, mystery knight), set ~80 years prior. They are excellent, with very tight stories that tie into SOIAF in surprising ways.
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Your not helping me by giving me more to read my poor kindle will have a melt down!
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04-18-2013, 09:47 AM
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#68
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Not Quite Here
Cruel2BKind is offline
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Location: Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironiclaconic
My bet is she finally arrives in Westeros in book 6, but given Martin's fractal plot structure who the hell knows.
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I meant the show, but GRRM needs to hurry up with our Khaleeshi too!
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04-18-2013, 10:21 AM
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#69
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Really Experienced
DirkVanDyck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruel2BKind
I meant the show, but GRRM needs to hurry up with our Khaleeshi too!
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Part of me thinks she won't see beyond book 6 just something in my gut as odd as it may sound. The great saviour if westeros crushed on the rocks and stormy seas by Euron perhaps.
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04-18-2013, 11:08 AM
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#71
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Really Experienced
DirkVanDyck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruel2BKind
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At least you will now be prepared IF it does happen. Just don't track me down and give me a fate worse than death.
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04-18-2013, 07:01 PM
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#72
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Not Quite Here
Cruel2BKind is offline
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I can't wait until the bits with Arya learning from the kindly man.
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These be my stories, if you be interested!
Most are gay male, though I have two that are straight, and one that is a How to.
I tend to go for the darker stuff... But people seem to like it okay!
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04-18-2013, 08:41 PM
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#73
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Literotica Guru
PennLady is offline
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I'm looking forward to Arya's future adventures as well.
Meanwhile, for the economics geeks, an opposing view of the wealth of House Tyrell and House Lannister.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/...s_trouble.html
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04-18-2013, 09:31 PM
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#74
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Able to Multiple Sarcasm
NekoParks is offline
Join Date: Nov 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PennLady
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Enjoyed the article. Thank you for posting it. Like I said, I'm a late comer to GOT so I have a lot of catching up to do.
So has Littlefinger been dealing in derivatives...insuring his losses, slicing up his debts and repackaging them with AAA or triple dragon ratings? 
Last edited by NekoParks : 04-18-2013 at 09:39 PM.
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04-19-2013, 04:34 AM
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#75
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Really Experienced
DirkVanDyck is offline
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Location: Third Rock From The Sun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironiclaconic
As for Theon, so far they are showing things that are consistent with his flashbacks in book 5. No surprise that they needed to give the actor some work to do and not just tell him "see you in season six".
One of the most significant changes is the replacement of Jeyne Westerling with Talisa, eliminating the entire Westerling clan and all their juicy subplots.
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Yeah I'm not too keen on that change, it really seems jarring to me perhaps because of the books you get comfortable with how things are then they cut, change and replace in the show. To me Jeyne was very demure, very shy and quiet (cannot blame rob for wanting the exact opposite of his mother)
I think with the whole reek thing in the book it is a'what the fuck!?!' Kind of moment so that's lost in the show no slow anguished torture and breaking of the man it feels a little rushed. I can understand wanting to keep the guy in a job but maybe even introduce him towards the end of season 3. They killed peter off in Fringe for a good chunk that didn't hurt anyone.
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