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Old 04-07-2013, 08:03 PM   #76
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This thread has been weighing on my mind all day and I find that I simply must respond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post

I never said the act or participation in BDSM is in and of itself a sickness. I said that people use it as a means of self-medicating. I also said that after she gets a clean bill of mental health, she could then pursue her increased interest in pain.
Some people self medicate with sex period~ vanilla or kinky or pistachio flavored.

Would you require all people get a "clean bill of mental health" before engaging in sex of any kind?

Also may I just point out. Not all BDSM "relationships" are about love. Not all Doms are setting to create a scenario for the sub to "get lost in". In fact there are some where it is simply the exchange of sex (not all, but some). And it seems to me that what she was considering and what the whole post was about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntress2603 View Post

<snipped>

... And this is where I'm confused...I don't know what I'm looking for or what I *should* be looking for. Should I be going to visit a dominatrix? But is there sex involved in that relationship or is it just BDSM stuff? Should I be looking for that dynamic in a sexual relationship with another woman?

<snipped>
I took this to mean should she look for another relationship entirely or should she look for an agreement with a Dom in order to satisfy the sexual feelings and cravings she is having.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntress2603;43858285
I don't want to pursue someone else. This wouldn't be a "hook up" for me. I had asked about a dominatrix because I thought a professional relationship would help to teach me more about BDSM and help to satisfy some of my needs, which I discussed earlier. And, quite honestly, my g/f hasn't worked as a Dom in quite a while. When we do explore further, it will be a learning experience for her, as well, since she might be a little rusty ;-)

This does not necessarily mean her relationship is on the fritz. Nor would it necessarily (going on the assumption that her partner is aware and okay with her seeing someone else for this) destroy her current relationship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post

Lastly, the Literotica forums is not the place where you should be asking for advice pertaining to important life decisions. While there are some intelligent and knowledgeable people on here, they are easily and often lost in the sea of people who are thinking to themselves: "I'd really like to smack her ass and put it in her butt; sounds like she'd be agreeable too."
I have seen no such comments on this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post

I can understand why communicating with your partner could be scary for you. At the same time, if you can't talk about your sexual wants and needs with the person you're having sex with, then who can you?
Apparently a lot 1,447,646 people believe that one can speak openly about their sexual wants and needs right here on the Lit boards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post
If it were something like androphobia or building a budding career then I would agree with you. Right now she's dealing with trust issues and possibly commitment issues though. At the end of the day, isn't BDSM rooted in trust? I don't know about the rest of you but I wouldn't want to be blindfolded and restrained while someone I wasn't absolutely positive about did w/e they wanted to me.
Where did she say she wanted to be blindfolded and restrained. And no offense, people deal with trust issues all the time. The commitment issues you claim she is dealing with is incorrect.

Also while it is something that you are uncomfortable with does not mean that everyone else is uncomfortable with such a thing. And the OP didn't seem to be uncomfortable with the idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post

Before you embark into the BDSM lifestyle, you should take a long, hard look at who you are as a person and your reasoning behind doing it. If you don't like what you see, you probably shouldn't go down this road. I know I'm stereotyping and profiling with this next comment but I'm too tired to care.

A lot of people involved in the BDSM lifestyle have some-kind of deep seated trauma or are emotionally damaged in one way or another. Your escalating need to feel pain with your pleasure proves that something isn't quite right. If you were a submissive masochist all along then why are you just now figuring it out? Are you intentionally punishing yourself for something you feel you did or didn't do? What prompted the sudden need to explore the lifestyle? What about it resonates with you?

I've been thinking about your personality all night long and the pieces just don't fit. You're an Alpha arch-type personality that is driven and involved. Something tells me that the identity crisis within your relationship stems from two dominant people trying to figure out when they should assert and when they should yield. She has previous Dom experience and-or is older, plus you've got the kids so you're wearing the skirt by default.
A) At least you recognize that you are stereotyping and making wild generalizations. People discover the joys of BDSM at many different times in their lives. Sexuality is not something set in stone. Just because you were not interested in something in your 20s does not mean you cannot move toward something else in your 40s.

B) Again, the OP didn't mention any issues within her current relationship other than the normal ones of time and energy. And just because you are driven and involved in things does not mean you are an Alpha personality type. It means you are driven and involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post

A bad experience while gagged and an inability to call things off could undermine all of the work she has done with her counselor thus far.

As for the child point, I was referring to her partner taking her going to a Dom poorly. Add to that that her partner is an ex-Dom and yeah. Bet her kids are emotionally invested in her partner and don't want to see her go. Acting without talking it out could lead to just that (the fact that you all are debating whether or not BDSM is a sexual act leads me to believe that her partner could construe it as cheating).
A) When did the poster talk about being gagged?

B) You are supposing that she would not consult her partner before engaging in these things. Given that her partner was a practicing Dom would lead me to the thought that her partner would be able to understand and perhaps support the OP in the OP's quest for information and experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post

I never said she was an emotional cripple, nor did I imply it. I did, however, implore her to do some soul searching (which she is doing). She went through some rough times emotionally and now she wants some rough times physically. Am I the only one who sees that as odd?
You may not be the only one who sees it as odd. But I don't see it as odd at all. I recently went through some rough times and found the pain to be a way to hep me deal with it. It was cathartic and ultimately helped me to break down and let my emotions out. But again that is just me. Although I will suppose that I am not unique and so there might be others out there who also benefit from pain the same way I do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post

Tied to a bed with a gag in the mouth.
Whoops, no where to drop it. The only reason why I brought this up is that Huntress sounds like she wants to go from 0 to 60 immediately.
Again where did you see the OP asking for this?



Utimately Shawn you made sweeping generalizations, attributed false motives and desires to the OP and made it clear that you are not someone who practices BDSM (at least not intentionally). And yet you felt that you somehow are more aware of the ins and outs of this lifestyle than members of this board. I find that to be incredibly arrogant.


Okay said my peace. Thanks.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:22 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netzach View Post
Absolutely. But last I checked relationships don't exactly flourish on the same metrics as physics. 2+2 = 4 isn't the same as "should I look for X kind of interaction, sexually."

The appropriateness of a response is completely colored by the context, you know this.

It became shit advice when pathology and doom are *implied* in the very act of thinking about SM. It became shit advice when it took the tone of "be afraid of your own shadow" instead of just "talk to her."

At least I have the humility to assume that my advice to her CAN be total crap, but if it is she probably knows it is.

I'm offering the option of devil's advocacy on a table spread with the leafy greens of communication and consideration - like, maybe she's DONE or IS DOING this. Maybe people are the best experts on their own lives, holy shit! Maybe just getting a pain experience once in a while and moving on with your life is OK. Maybe "self medicating" - if your methods are not ruining your life or messing it up - is just as valid as the experience of weaning off of a handful of paxil. Maybe she needs to just find someone who's not going to fuck up her joints or infect her welts and send her on her way back home with a kiss on the cheek instead of grilling her to think harder.

Maybe not. I'm no Scientologist nutbag, and I have no paranoia about therapy, but I do have pretty strong feelings about what non-normative people need from the experience and when it's appropriate to be challenged on your coping mechanisms and when not and what IS a coping mechanism and what is expression.

Non-player-expert-person could be 100 percent right, but hot damn is he she it CERTAIN that the OP is not being sufficiently freaked out!

You yourself would not agree that "BDSM is about trust." BDSM is about catharsis, expression, experimentation, sadism and masochism. It's about raunchy hot sex that makes people fucking uncomfortable. It's about unfair interpersonal dynamics that are NOT healthy for the majority of people but ARE healthy for some. For most people consensus is the way to solve problems. For some people consensus is a burden.

It's a good idea to have trust, expectation, communication and all of this sorted before you do it, but it's not always going to happen that way, because humans are human. "Healthy" is highly subjective bullshit. "Healthier" is something every single person can be, through working on it in their own way.

That might involve therapy and deciding your desires are not coming from a good place. That might involve deciding that your desires ARE coming from a good place, also, with or sometimes without the agreement of anyone else.

Yes, not listening too much to people on a message board is generally a good idea in the sense of anyone being an expert on anything. Yes, talking to your partner is generally way better than not. That's not the extent of it and you know it.
I love this - so much so that I'm truely considering printing this off in pamphlet form to distribute to almost everyone in my life at the moment.

Thanks Netz, it's comforting to see my jumbled emotions echoed in your words. I feel a little more understood today.
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:59 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netzach View Post
Maybe not. I'm no Scientologist nutbag, and I have no paranoia about therapy, but I do have pretty strong feelings about what non-normative people need from the experience and when it's appropriate to be challenged on your coping mechanisms and when not and what IS a coping mechanism and what is expression.
This reminds me of something I should've said before. Netzach is already getting at it here, but I want to make it a bit more explicit so nobody misses it: "Go to therapy" is NOT a risk-free option for kinky folk.

A few years back, my partner and I got to a point where we were both hurting badly, and agreed that we needed to see a relationship counsellor. We screwed up the courage required to share the intimate details of our lives with a stranger, we told her about the problems that we needed to work on, and we gave her the detailed background to our lives. Including - among many other more-relevant things - the fact that we were nonmonogamous, because it was necessary to explain a few of the specific events.

"So, you sleep with other people? Don't you feel that this is unhealthy? Don't you feel that this is coming out of some insecurity?"

"Uh, no. We're comfortable with that. What we wanted to look at is these other issues..."

"No, I don't think this can be healthy. We need to examine this first..."

It was a very distressing experience for both of us, at a time when we really didn't need it, to go to somebody for help and then have them ignore us and attempt to pathologise the poly aspect instead of dealing with the things that really DID need fixing. (All at our expense, natch.)

After two sessions we gave up and went looking for another therapist. Fortunately, we managed to find one who was much more helpful, and willing to take us at our word when we said "that's not the problem, this is".

But from what I hear, a lot of other kinksters have had similar experiences with "professionals" who are determined to pathologise anything out of the ordinary, and that can be incredibly harmful when you're already vulnerable and weary.

I'm not saying "don't do therapy", but don't assume that it is a safer option than exploring BDSM.
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:30 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netzach View Post
The appropriateness of a response is completely colored by the context, you know this.

It became shit advice when pathology and doom are *implied* in the very act of thinking about SM. It became shit advice when it took the tone of "be afraid of your own shadow" instead of just "talk to her."
Are we still talking about his very first post that got dismissed by Stella just because he stated his lack of experience?


Quote:
You yourself would not agree that "BDSM is about trust." BDSM is about catharsis, expression, experimentation, sadism and masochism. It's about raunchy hot sex that makes people fucking uncomfortable. It's about unfair interpersonal dynamics that are NOT healthy for the majority of people but ARE healthy for some. For most people consensus is the way to solve problems. For some people consensus is a burden.
You've summed up our point of view very nicely.


Quote:
Yes, not listening too much to people on a message board is generally a good idea in the sense of anyone being an expert on anything. Yes, talking to your partner is generally way better than not. That's not the extent of it and you know it.
Too much credit for me, sorry. I really only read the first page of the thread and didn't read much more. I mean, what can I tell about lesbian relationships? All I know about women is that the problems raise exponentially with the count.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:31 PM   #80
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HuntressOP. If you are still anywhere NEAR this place. There is someone (female) who is something of a relationships/life/even pain+bondage guru who has stuff on YouTube. I shall try to send you the name in a pm because I'm not sure the whole entire world deserves to see what she has to say...

Meanwhile - 'the problems raise exponentially with the count???!!!'

That has never been true for me although I am aware that many people feel it is true about relationships that they have been in or are in.

I have to honestly say that I have never found that to be so for me at least.

Bramblethorn... I am about to pm you something too, by way of explanation of something I had said. It will/may be slightly cryptic and I'll not expand on the reference I'm sending, other than to say that it demonstrates the juxtaposition of a complex layer on top of a 'normal' outward picture.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:41 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Desiremakesmeweak View Post
who has stuff on YouTube. I shall try to send you the name in a pm because I'm not sure the whole entire world deserves to see what she has to say...
We really need a *facepalm* smilie.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:50 PM   #82
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Do you mean *palmface*?

Chuckle to myself.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:32 PM   #83
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If your guru is on youtube, she intends the whole world to hear what she has to say.

Don't be elitist, share!
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:15 PM   #84
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key dysfunction
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:15 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primalex View Post
I mean, what can I tell about lesbian relationships? All I know about women is that the problems raise exponentially with the count.
You know I WANT to argue with this, but I just can't without lying.

They're hotter problems, there. More interesting problems. Ha.
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In the spirit of equal time, sites like Huffington Post should have sections for male anatomy hanging out instead of just the idiotic celebrity “side boob” and “nip slip” camera ops. I have no idea what that would be like to have a camera in my face at every turn, looking for “the” shot. I know what some of you are saying. “Then why do they wear clothes like that unless they want those photos taken?” I don’t know what to tell ya. Perhaps just don’t take the fuckin picture? Evolve? I don’t know. - Henry Rollins
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:05 PM   #86
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Quote:
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All I know about women is that the problems raise exponentially with the count.
Trufax.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:45 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netzach View Post
You know I WANT to argue with this, but I just can't without lying.

They're hotter problems, there. More interesting problems. Ha.
And the rewards are bigger and better too.

But what makes me laugh about Primalex's assumption that it's all about Shawn's first post is the same thing that made me laugh about Shawn's first post-- both exhibit an ignorance that could be solved with a little further reading.

Come to think of it, Shawn never once noted that he knows nothing about lesbians.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:54 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
And the rewards are bigger and better too.

But what makes me laugh about Primalex's assumption that it's all about Shawn's first post is the same thing that made me laugh about Shawn's first post-- both exhibit an ignorance that could be solved with a little further reading.

Come to think of it, Shawn never once noted that he knows nothing about lesbians.
He never admitted being ignorant of particle physics but I'd be willing to place a decent bet on it.
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:58 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
But what makes me laugh about Primalex's assumption that it's all about Shawn's first post
Why would I need to make assumptions about what I write? You don't make any sense.

Maybe you wanted to say:"Yes, I was wrong at that time...but luckily, later, fate favored me and made my mistake look less wrong."?
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:39 PM   #90
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Quote:
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Why would I need to make assumptions about what I write? You don't make any sense.

Maybe you wanted to say:"Yes, I was wrong at that time...but luckily, later, fate favored me and made my mistake look less wrong."?
Correlating "I don't know anything about BDSM" with "I should not be giving advice about BDSM" is not that difficult.

Correlating "But I'm going to anyway" is where it becomes obvious to everyone else that someone is a douche, or possibly off of their meds.
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Old 04-10-2013, 02:29 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
Correlating "I don't know anything about BDSM" with "I should not be giving advice about BDSM" is not that difficult.
This is not what was said, so it doesn't fit.

I've never worked as nutrional consultant. I've never received training to be a nutrional consultant. Yet I still will give advice and write my opinion about other peoples eating habits, if they ask.

I've never worked as MD. I've never received training to be a MD. Yet I still will give advice and write my opinion about health issues (maybe, maybe not with the disclaimer, that I'm not a MD).

I've never worked as a lawyer or attorney. I've never received training to be either one. Yet I still will give advice about legal issues.....

Shall we continue the list?
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:12 PM   #92
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Quote:
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This is not what was said, so it doesn't fit.

I've never worked as nutrional consultant. I've never received training to be a nutrional consultant. Yet I still will give advice and write my opinion about other peoples eating habits, if they ask.

I've never worked as MD. I've never received training to be a MD. Yet I still will give advice and write my opinion about health issues (maybe, maybe not with the disclaimer, that I'm not a MD).

I've never worked as a lawyer or attorney. I've never received training to be either one. Yet I still will give advice about legal issues.....

Shall we continue the list?
And, depending on how much stupid advice you gave, or how much ignorance and disrespect you showed about the subject, your assumption of competence would be obvious and laughable-- and other posters would laugh indeed.

So yeah, you are perfectly welcome to continue your list of subjects you might not know jack shit about. (I have a list at least as long as yours myself-- I HAVE made efforts to reduce my propensity for self-humiliation).
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:33 PM   #93
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And, depending on how much stupid advice you gave, or how much ignorance and disrespect you showed about the subject, your assumption of competence would be obvious and laughable-- and other posters would laugh indeed.
I would hope they would laugh about any stupid advice, no matter from where it comes. Funny that _you_ value social affiliation more than truth when judging a statement or person. Then again, your fallibility at least proves that you are a human.
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:22 PM   #94
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People often make amazing, insightful first posts and get totally recognised for it.

I've said to complete strangers "OMG I never thought of it that way, thanks!"

I've told people "Don't be shy, you know much more than you think you do."

This guy? Not so much.

Yes, I certainly do value social connections. And more than that, I don't try to denigrate them. But they don't mean I give peeps blanket approval, or try to keep newbies out. Stupid advice is stupid advice.
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Old 04-28-2013, 11:58 PM   #95
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Talking Thanks - and an update

Wow, it seems like I really opened a can of worms here! Even though the discussions got a bit contentious, I learned a lot and really appreciated all of the different viewpoints. Ultimately, I decided to talk with my partner about my desire to explore. As you may recall, she used to be a Domme but I was hesitant to discuss it with her because of stresses in her life (busy school schedule) and some issues in our relationship. Well, I talked to her about it today and told her I wanted to be her sub and, uh, long story short...I'm a sub. It's a little more involved than that, of course, but we are exploring this new aspect of our relationship together. I feel excited about this new direction and am already feeling some relief from the stresses on our relationship.

So we'll see how it goes but I really feel that the help and advice from the members of this community really helped a lot. Thank you, all, for your help!
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