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Old 04-06-2013, 07:14 PM   #51
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"Something tells me you really don't have much experience with the range of dynamics that can arise in a BDSM relationship. The last sentence in particular made me chortle.

Any in-depth psychoanalysis based on no more contact than a handful of posts on an Internet forum should be treated as what it is: a bunch of wild-ass guesses. Dressing it up in a smattering of psych terminology doesn't change that."

You, um, forgot an entire paragraph Bramblethorn. Let me help you with that. Half truths good debating does not make.

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Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post
I know what they say about assuming and making an ass of you and me but wild speculation is all we really have to go on. I think if you want more specific help, you're going to have to give up some more specific information. I know you're already seeing a counselor but maybe it's time to see a registered sex-therapist too? Bring it up with the counselor first and ask about trust issues, BDSM and seeing a sex-therapist and see what he/she says. That individual will have more insight into who you are than any of us randoms on the internet.
"After giving each of the 132 participants four hours of psychological tests, as well as a face-to-face interview, I found that, in fact, the group was generally not mentally unhealthy, and the instances of early abuse that had long been associated with the adult practice of BDSM were present in just a few."

First, I'd like to point out that 132 individuals out of a massive community doesn't make for sound statistical analysis. Secondly, a history of abuse wasn't present in the majority but it was still present. Third, it's difficult to get to know someone in an "interview." Sure, you'll glean some insight based on body language and responses but unless those people were completely honest and the study went longer than a couple of days, it doesn't hold water.

"End of story. Being interested in BDSM is not a reason to start diagnosing the OP as sick or damaged."

I never said she was an emotional cripple, nor did I imply it. I did, however, implore her to do some soul searching (which she is doing). She went through some rough times emotionally and now she wants some rough times physically. Am I the only one who sees that as odd?

"People change throughout their lives. The reasons for those changes very often defy glib analysis. "

Often isn't always. It's better safe than sorry.

I know I said I was done but I guess I lied. BrambleThorn does make some interesting and valid points though quite a few of them are incomplete. I honestly hopes this helps you Huntress. Take what works for you and make it your own. I know you didn't want to be the big decision maker anymore but - lol.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:18 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
That WAS content. And as such, I accepted it as truth.
Too fucking easy.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:22 PM   #53
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Because it sounds like you've gotten everything you know from it.
So, forego the gags. I can't remember the last time I used one, personally. I like to hear noise -- and make noise. what my partner has to say, and I like to give my partner audible feedback.

If gags are part of your kink, there are ways to signal a call-off. Keep something in your hand, like a set of noisy keys works well, that you can drop if you need to signal.

If you want to be gagged AND mitted at the same time, hold off on that until you and your partner are pretty damn sure of each other.

By the way, "are you retarded" is not a compelling argument.

Additionally, who the fuck can PRE determine what the fallout of a "bad experience" might be?

On the planet I reside on people in actively SM engaged couples have "bad experiences" but when they're accidental and committed by people who have the skills to minimize any physical harm and the track record together to navigate emotional "oops, I fucked up" they don't "undo everything from therapy OMG."

That seems kind of melodramatic.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:23 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post
"Something tells me you really don't have much experience with the range of dynamics that can arise in a BDSM relationship. The last sentence in particular made me chortle.

Any in-depth psychoanalysis based on no more contact than a handful of posts on an Internet forum should be treated as what it is: a bunch of wild-ass guesses. Dressing it up in a smattering of psych terminology doesn't change that."

You, um, forgot an entire paragraph Bramblethorn. Let me help you with that. Half truths good debating does not make.



"After giving each of the 132 participants four hours of psychological tests, as well as a face-to-face interview, I found that, in fact, the group was generally not mentally unhealthy, and the instances of early abuse that had long been associated with the adult practice of BDSM were present in just a few."

First, I'd like to point out that 132 individuals out of a massive community doesn't make for sound statistical analysis. Secondly, a history of abuse wasn't present in the majority but it was still present. Third, it's difficult to get to know someone in an "interview." Sure, you'll glean some insight based on body language and responses but unless those people were completely honest and the study went longer than a couple of days, it doesn't hold water.

"End of story. Being interested in BDSM is not a reason to start diagnosing the OP as sick or damaged."

I never said she was an emotional cripple, nor did I imply it. I did, however, implore her to do some soul searching (which she is doing). She went through some rough times emotionally and now she wants some rough times physically. Am I the only one who sees that as odd?

"People change throughout their lives. The reasons for those changes very often defy glib analysis. "

Often isn't always. It's better safe than sorry.

I know I said I was done but I guess I lied. BrambleThorn does make some interesting and valid points though quite a few of them are incomplete. I honestly hopes this helps you Huntress. Take what works for you and make it your own. I know you didn't want to be the big decision maker anymore but - lol.

OK, yes, an actual study is glib, but you can psychoanalyze the OP based on two posts.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:33 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
Because it sounds like you've gotten everything you know from it.
"Is not a compelling argument."


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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
If gags are part of your kink, there are ways to signal a call-off. Keep something in your hand, like a set of noisy keys works well, that you can drop if you need to signal.
Tied to a bed with a gag in the mouth. Whoops, no where to drop it. The only reason why I brought this up is that Huntress sounds like she wants to go from 0 to 60 immediately.

On that note, any and all non-verbal communication between us will be in the form of middle fingers.

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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
If you want to be gagged AND mitted at the same time, hold off on that until you and your partner are pretty damn sure of each other.
The thing about common sense is it isn't as common as one might expect. Again, Huntress wants to leap out of the gate so this is the kind of information she needs instead of your typical passive-aggressiveness. Kodos on this bit of information.

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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
By the way, "are you retarded" is not a compelling argument.
Given the subject matter of the post, it was a valid question though.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:36 PM   #56
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Too fucking easy.
what-- you had some nefarious reason for saying that you know jack shit about BDSM?

That's the "I meant to do that" excuse.

I have a suspicion that we are dealing with a bipolar person in manic phase here.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:46 PM   #57
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OK, yes, an actual study is glib, but you can psychoanalyze the OP based on two posts.
First, she used the word "glib," not I.

Secondly, I admitted that I couldn't before BrambleThorn brought the point up and then quoted myself admitting that I couldn't after the fact.

Third, I pretty well discounted that study in a logical and reasonable fashion. 132 people over the course of a couple of weeks is not an "in depth" study. I'm sure, however, that the study paved the way for credible work though.

Leave the arguing for your side of things to BrambleThorn and occasionally Stella. At least they're informed even if their short-term memory and reading comprehension could use some work.

I'm not sure about the rest of you but I'm having heaps of fun here.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:58 PM   #58
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Yep, def. someone arguing from a chemical imbalance.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:17 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post
Gee, I'm glad you pointed that out. Because certainly none of the folk who actually have experience with BDSM had ever considered the risks that might arise with activities like gagging & new partners... or come up with ways to mitigate those risks... or written essays about that topic.

If only there was helpful information about this sort of issue, easily available in some sort of widely-known repository of knowledge.
Yes because everyone looks at things in a calm rational manner while weighing the pros and cons of every decision they've ever made. As you pointed out, it's impossible to get a feel for who someone is based on a couple of forum posts.

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Sarcasm off: if you are so unfamiliar with BDSM that you haven't even encountered the concept of nonverbal safewords, then perhaps you don't have quite as much to contribute here as you think you do.
I actually have. The most common is a vigorous shake of the head.

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Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post
For somebody who's never read it, you do a pretty good job of rehashing its misconceptions. One of the biggest criticisms made of that book is the selfsame "BDSM = damaged goods" misinformation that you've been posting here.
The study you quoted admitted that a history of abuse was present in some cases. I said time and time again that there MAY or MIGHT be a deeper rooted cause to her sudden interest in pain. Have you never heard of the term "cutting?"

Why are all of you so interested in getting her to avoid counseling? Why are you all so upset when I suggest that something could be wrong? She goes, she gets a clean bill of health and then she lets her Dom ride her ass like a pony. Is that so difficult to understand?

I'd much rather someone who actually knows what they're talking about spend some time with her and help her figure out what's really going on. A sex therapist > Random Literotica user. You're out of your depth here (as am I; that's why I keep pointing her toward professionals).
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:24 PM   #60
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I just stopped in because I was low on my weasel words quota this week. I'm all good now, thanks.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:51 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
what-- you had some nefarious reason for saying that you know jack shit about BDSM?

That's the "I meant to do that" excuse.

I have a suspicion that we are dealing with a bipolar person in manic phase here.
All you've done here is make passive-aggressive comments in an effort to undermine my posts. You brought up one good point with mitts but for the most part you haven't once suggested a means by which the OP could change her current circumstances. An: "It's okay, I've been there too," doesn't resolve anything. Her boat needs some serious rocking.

I'm not sure why I'm the only one who sees it but it seems like she's trying to turn emotional pain into physical pain as a way to rationalize her emotions. As I mentioned in a previous post, it's an awful lot like "cutting" except her Dom would be acting as the razor blades.

When I asked an individual why he cut, he said: "Because it's easier to deal with and rationalize the physical pain than it is to deal with and rationalize the emotional pain." He cut himself, it hurt, he watched the blood trickle. It was a form of escapism which didn't resolve the root issue. His issue was a ex-girlfriend; that's why when she said "divorce," I suggested she work through her problems before she gets flogged. If at the end of the day she's mentally healthy and still wants to experience pain then that's cool.

I understand that you guys deal with prejudice and stereotyping all of the time (I'm admittedly guilty of perpetuating it) but at the same time you've allowed your natural defense mechanisms to cloud your better judgement. That's why I asked the questions: When did you start feeling this way? Is it something you've always felt? What is happening in your life right now that could spur the change?

The fact that we let this get so far out of hand is proof that none of us should be offering her advice aside from: "Liking BDSM isn't bad" and "You should probably figure out what's going on emotionally before you start doing things physically."

Seriously OP, get off of these boards and go seek out a registered sex therapist. You need an unbiased point of view that isn't going to push an agenda on you one way or another.
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:15 PM   #62
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You, um, forgot an entire paragraph Bramblethorn. Let me help you with that. Half truths good debating does not make.
Oh, I saw that bit. I thought it was really good advice. But if you give good advice, and then don't follow it, the end result is still a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post
"After giving each of the 132 participants four hours of psychological tests, as well as a face-to-face interview, I found that, in fact, the group was generally not mentally unhealthy, and the instances of early abuse that had long been associated with the adult practice of BDSM were present in just a few."

First, I'd like to point out that 132 individuals out of a massive community doesn't make for sound statistical analysis.
Pro tip - here meaning "I get paid to know this stuff": "massive community" is all but irrelevant. If you were competent to assess what is and isn't "sound statistical analysis", you'd have known that.

A common misconception about statistical research is that accuracy depends on sampling fraction, i.e. what proportion of the population is selected. They might be willing to accept an opinion poll of 100 people out of a population of 500 (f = 20%), but they'd balk at accepting a poll of 1000 respondents out of 300 million (f = 0.0003%). In fact, the latter sample is much more accurate; raw sample number is much more important than sampling fraction. There is a small effect from sampling fraction (cf 'finite population correction' if you're curious) but it's generally ignorable.

With that out of the way: depending on what you're trying to do, a sample size of 132 can be more than adequate. There are plenty of statistical techniques around for gauging the sampling error of this sort of work, and it's pretty much de rigeur to include information about those measures in scientific publication. If you want to know what they were for this study, you can find them in the paper that Pamela Connolly referred to.


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Secondly, a history of abuse wasn't present in the majority but it was still present.
Of course it bloody was. In the USA, about 15% of the general population have experienced childhood abuse. Nobody is suggesting that a nascent inclination towards BDSM gives kids magical protection from that, or indeed that it protects adults from abuse later on. If you picked 132 people from any walk of life, it would be a miracle to find that none of them had a history of abuse.

What you've been suggesting is a link between abuse and BDSM. There's no evidence for that in Connolly's work - and while that work is prone to the same sort of nitpicking that can be applied to just about any psychological research, it's still a lot more substantial than anything you've offered to support the existence of such a link.

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Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post
Third, it's difficult to get to know someone in an "interview." Sure, you'll glean some insight based on body language and responses but unless those people were completely honest and the study went longer than a couple of days, it doesn't hold water.
If I have to choose between a trained psychologist who spends several hours interviewing people in person, using heavily-researched psychometric tests designed for this sort of application, and whatever-it-is that you're basing your beliefs on about a link between BDSM and abuse... well, remind me, what is it that your beliefs are based on here?

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Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post
She went through some rough times emotionally and now she wants some rough times physically. Am I the only one who sees that as odd?
Seems like it, at least on this forum.

I'd invoke "correlation is not causation", but it seems to me that we haven't even made a start on establishing "correlation" here. There are millions of people in the world who've experienced emotional trauma, there are millions of people who like to play rough. The fact that those groups sometimes overlap, in itself, means nothing.
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:41 PM   #63
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Third, I pretty well discounted that study in a logical and reasonable fashion. 132 people over the course of a couple of weeks is not an "in depth" study.
Nope. What you did was squint at the sample size and declare, with no statistical reasoning, that 132 people wasn't enough. That's not a logical rebuttal, it's merely your intuition.

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I actually have. The most common is a vigorous shake of the head.
"Most common"? According to who? Where are you getting this from?

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Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post
The study you quoted admitted that a history of abuse was present in some cases. I said time and time again that there MAY or MIGHT be a deeper rooted cause to her sudden interest in pain. Have you never heard of the term "cutting?"
And she MIGHT be a mobster in witness protection who's using this forum to exchange coded messages with her FBI handler. As long as we're pulling theories out of nowhere, maybe we should give equal time to that one?

Also, contrary to your "sudden interest in pain", what the OP actually said was "I have always been interested in mild bondage and spanking". She's noted that this interest has recently increased, but I can't see anything in her posts on this thread that says "suddenly". Where are you getting that from?

I have no reason to disbelieve that you knew some dude who used cutting to deal with abuse issues. But the OP is not that dude, and if you don't consider a scientifically-designed study of 132 people to be credible, an anecdotal sample of one seems a bit wobbly.

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Why are all of you so interested in getting her to avoid counseling?
Who here has said "avoid counselling"? Where are you getting this from?

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Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post
Why are you all so upset when I suggest that something could be wrong?
Speaking for myself: because pathologisation of BDSM - like you keep attempting here - is harmful to real people. People have lost jobs, kids, lives, because of this unfounded belief that BDSM is a sickness.
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:01 AM   #64
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If it's any consolation, Shawn, E.L. James wrote it just like you think it is.
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Old 04-07-2013, 01:22 AM   #65
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Nope. What you did was squint at the sample size and declare, with no statistical reasoning, that 132 people wasn't enough. That's not a logical rebuttal, it's merely your intuition.
First, the participants of the study you're quoting have a weight of .76 each. A couple of people aren't completely honest and the results become skewed. Perhaps they don't consider what happened to them abuse or perhaps they've repressed it to such an extent that it's no longer a part of their daily lives. That's before you consider that quite a few of the participants will have a pro-BDSM agenda. More people = less weight on the statistic per body = more honest statistic.

I also didn't see the fact that abused individuals are generally reluctant to come forward. I bet your 15% here in the states inflates to 20% or more with full disclosure (I know, impossible to prove, easily disproved but when you look at the statistics for sexually assaulted girls/teens/women that actually come forward; it fits). Please, for the love of fuck don't make me site statistics for battered women. This is already depressing enough without that.

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Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post
Also, contrary to your "sudden interest in pain", what the OP actually said was "I have always been interested in mild bondage and spanking". She's noted that this interest has recently increased, but I can't see anything in her posts on this thread that says "suddenly". Where are you getting that from?
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And I am genuinely turned on by some of the harshness associated with BDSM. I guess I always have been but I always considered it to be "playful". I now realize (This is where I get suddenly from) that I want more force and pain from a partner than what most people would consider to be "normal".
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I have no reason to disbelieve that you knew some dude who used cutting to deal with abuse issues. But the OP is not that dude, and if you don't consider a scientifically-designed study of 132 people to be credible, an anecdotal sample of one seems a bit wobbly.
I told the story to explain how I came to the conclusion that she might be using (or abusing) BDSM as a form of self-medicating. I in no way, shape or form meant to site this particular story as scientific research. I find that when you ask questions and make statements that people can relate to and then show you care about the answers, people tend to volunteer information. It's called: 'active listening.' For the record, he's an old friend.

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Who here has said "avoid counselling"? Where are you getting this from?
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I see where you're coming from here, but real life ain't always that simple. For some people BDSM is not just an occasional hobby but a major psychological need, in which case it's not going to be possible to sort out a relationship while edging around an elephant in the room.
What I get from this is: "don't wait to get better, live in the now." Seeing as how BDSM is all about consent and trust, it makes sense that she resolve her trust issues first.

There's another one from the guy/gal I accused of being a retard but since I have no respect for the individual, I won't quote him/her. It basically said: The mental health-care community tries to keep us non-normals in a state of confusion and doubt. You can find it if you like but I won't.

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Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post
Speaking for myself: because pathologisation of BDSM - like you keep attempting here - is harmful to real people. People have lost jobs, kids, lives, because of this unfounded belief that BDSM is a sickness.
I never said the act or participation in BDSM is in and of itself a sickness. I said that people use it as a means of self-medicating. I also said that after she gets a clean bill of mental health, she could then pursue her increased interest in pain.

Alright, I think it's time to agree to disagree. You may not have any respect for me or my message but I respect you just the same. I've learned quite a bit here, unfortunately all of it was related to the social stigma of BDSM and how the community might react when they think they're under attack. I appreciate (and I hope the OP does too) the time and energy you've put into your posts.
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Old 04-07-2013, 01:43 AM   #66
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There's something very ~beloved~ about this guy.

Not saying he's an alt in any way, mind you. His mind is on a completely different single track.
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:01 AM   #67
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Sorry but "I fell down once" does not qualify me to advise on hang gliding.
"2 + 2 = 4." It doesn't matter whether this statement comes from a retarded nursing home resident or Einstein, it is still true.

When I summarize what he wrote in his first post, it is:
1) "Take internet forum advice with a grain of salt."
2) "It's better to talk with your partner about problems than with strangers."

Maybe I missed this, but since when did this turn into plain wrong advice?
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:33 AM   #68
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Shawn:

You'll go WAY further in this community if you're not so abrasive and rude. I don't know if you're just having a bad week...or, you know, whatever. But damn, back off a little!
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:24 PM   #69
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"2 + 2 = 4." It doesn't matter whether this statement comes from a retarded nursing home resident or Einstein, it is still true.

When I summarize what he wrote in his first post, it is:
1) "Take internet forum advice with a grain of salt."
2) "It's better to talk with your partner about problems than with strangers."

Maybe I missed this, but since when did this turn into plain wrong advice?
The devil is in the details.
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:24 PM   #70
Netzach
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Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post
First, she used the word "glib," not I.

Secondly, I admitted that I couldn't before BrambleThorn brought the point up and then quoted myself admitting that I couldn't after the fact.

Third, I pretty well discounted that study in a logical and reasonable fashion. 132 people over the course of a couple of weeks is not an "in depth" study. I'm sure, however, that the study paved the way for credible work though.

Leave the arguing for your side of things to BrambleThorn and occasionally Stella. At least they're informed even if their short-term memory and reading comprehension could use some work.

I'm not sure about the rest of you but I'm having heaps of fun here.

If you dusted off that reading comprehension you think you have a monopoly on, you'd realize the thrust of my point is that only a supremely arrogant ass would feel happy to stitch up his analysis of a stranger on a board in two posts.
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:26 PM   #71
Netzach
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Originally Posted by Primalex View Post
"2 + 2 = 4." It doesn't matter whether this statement comes from a retarded nursing home resident or Einstein, it is still true.

When I summarize what he wrote in his first post, it is:
1) "Take internet forum advice with a grain of salt."
2) "It's better to talk with your partner about problems than with strangers."

Maybe I missed this, but since when did this turn into plain wrong advice?
Absolutely. But last I checked relationships don't exactly flourish on the same metrics as physics. 2+2 = 4 isn't the same as "should I look for X kind of interaction, sexually."

The appropriateness of a response is completely colored by the context, you know this.

It became shit advice when pathology and doom are *implied* in the very act of thinking about SM. It became shit advice when it took the tone of "be afraid of your own shadow" instead of just "talk to her."

At least I have the humility to assume that my advice to her CAN be total crap, but if it is she probably knows it is.

I'm offering the option of devil's advocacy on a table spread with the leafy greens of communication and consideration - like, maybe she's DONE or IS DOING this. Maybe people are the best experts on their own lives, holy shit! Maybe just getting a pain experience once in a while and moving on with your life is OK. Maybe "self medicating" - if your methods are not ruining your life or messing it up - is just as valid as the experience of weaning off of a handful of paxil. Maybe she needs to just find someone who's not going to fuck up her joints or infect her welts and send her on her way back home with a kiss on the cheek instead of grilling her to think harder.

Maybe not. I'm no Scientologist nutbag, and I have no paranoia about therapy, but I do have pretty strong feelings about what non-normative people need from the experience and when it's appropriate to be challenged on your coping mechanisms and when not and what IS a coping mechanism and what is expression.

Non-player-expert-person could be 100 percent right, but hot damn is he she it CERTAIN that the OP is not being sufficiently freaked out!

You yourself would not agree that "BDSM is about trust." BDSM is about catharsis, expression, experimentation, sadism and masochism. It's about raunchy hot sex that makes people fucking uncomfortable. It's about unfair interpersonal dynamics that are NOT healthy for the majority of people but ARE healthy for some. For most people consensus is the way to solve problems. For some people consensus is a burden.

It's a good idea to have trust, expectation, communication and all of this sorted before you do it, but it's not always going to happen that way, because humans are human. "Healthy" is highly subjective bullshit. "Healthier" is something every single person can be, through working on it in their own way.

That might involve therapy and deciding your desires are not coming from a good place. That might involve deciding that your desires ARE coming from a good place, also, with or sometimes without the agreement of anyone else.

Yes, not listening too much to people on a message board is generally a good idea in the sense of anyone being an expert on anything. Yes, talking to your partner is generally way better than not. That's not the extent of it and you know it.
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In the spirit of equal time, sites like Huffington Post should have sections for male anatomy hanging out instead of just the idiotic celebrity “side boob” and “nip slip” camera ops. I have no idea what that would be like to have a camera in my face at every turn, looking for “the” shot. I know what some of you are saying. “Then why do they wear clothes like that unless they want those photos taken?” I don’t know what to tell ya. Perhaps just don’t take the fuckin picture? Evolve? I don’t know. - Henry Rollins

Last edited by Netzach : 04-07-2013 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:05 PM   #72
Bramblethorn
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Quote:
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First, the participants of the study you're quoting have a weight of .76 each. A couple of people aren't completely honest and the results become skewed. Perhaps they don't consider what happened to them abuse or perhaps they've repressed it to such an extent that it's no longer a part of their daily lives. That's before you consider that quite a few of the participants will have a pro-BDSM agenda.
Two separate issues here: sampling effects (the fact that in a finite sample, "luck of the draw" can affect the outcome) and non-sampling effects (systematic biases - i.e. the errors that would persist no matter how large your sample is).

The "weight of 0.76 each" issue (which should actually be "0.76 percent", two orders of magnitude smaller) is a sampling effect. The study already includes diagnostics for likely effects of sampling errors (F-scores, p-values, etc). Those diagnostics take sample size into account - as well as other factors - so they're already factoring in this concern; you'd be better off addressing those diagnostics rather than the raw sample number.

Non-sampling effects: you seem to be speculating - again, without foundation - that BDSMers are inherently less honest about abuse etc than non-BDSMers. I might as easily speculate that non-BDSMers will lie on these tests because they have a "pro-vanilla agenda" and that BDSMers are more honest because they're more willing to confront sexual issues. In the absence of actual evidence either way, perhaps you could ease off on impugning our honest here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post
I also didn't see the fact that abused individuals are generally reluctant to come forward. I bet your 15% here in the states inflates to 20% or more with full disclosure (I know, impossible to prove, easily disproved but when you look at the statistics for sexually assaulted girls/teens/women that actually come forward; it fits).
There may well be underreporting. Unless you're suggesting that BDSMers are more likely to underreport than non-BDSMers, it's irrelevant. If you are suggesting that, then please provide evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post
Please, for the love of fuck don't make me site statistics for battered women.
Actually, I was kinda hoping you'd cite something in relation to the other assertions you've been making here. Like the one where BDSM is linked to abuse, or where BDSMers are less honest than non-BDSMers, perhaps.

Or even the "head-shaking is the most common non-verbal safeword" one. Not that it matters much in itself, but it seems like another example of your tendency to pull assertions out of thin air

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post
I told the story to explain how I came to the conclusion that she might be using (or abusing) BDSM as a form of self-medicating. I in no way, shape or form meant to site this particular story as scientific research. I find that when you ask questions and make statements that people can relate to and then show you care about the answers, people tend to volunteer information. It's called: 'active listening.' For the record, he's an old friend.
Active listening of the form you describe can be effective as a counselling technique, but it's not a good way to collect unbiased data about the world at large, or even about the person you're talking to.

When you "make statements that people can relate to" and "show that you care about the answers", you're giving your subject cues about what you're expecting to hear, and it's human nature to slant responses in order to please the interviewer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post
What I get from this is: "don't wait to get better, live in the now." Seeing as how BDSM is all about consent and trust, it makes sense that she resolve her trust issues first.
"Doctor, I want to climb a mountain, but I don't think I'll have the energy to make it to the top."

"Then you should stay in bed for a few months, spending as little energy as you can, so that you'll have enough saved up to take you up that mountain."

"Shouldn't I be exercising to build muscle and fitness?"

"No way. You might slip and break your leg, and THEN how are you going to climb that mountain?"

See the problem with that?

BDSM is about trust... but the relationship is complex. It's not just a transaction where you save up trust in your vanilla time and then expend it to fund your kinky side. It's more like exercise: badly-chosen exercise can be harmful (and even the right kind of exercise has the potential for accidents) but staying home in bed isn't necessarily the best strategy. Even when you're recovering from an injury, gentle and appropriate exercise can be an important part of that recovery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnSwift View Post
I never said the act or participation in BDSM is in and of itself a sickness. I said that people use it as a means of self-medicating.
...which still comes back to "people who do BDSM are more likely to be sick and damaged", and that's a very harmful stereotype with no evidentiary basis. Compounding it with "and also they're more likely to lie about being damaged" just makes it worse.

Edit: missed this bit:

"And I am genuinely turned on by some of the harshness associated with BDSM. I guess I always have been but I always considered it to be "playful". I now realize (This is where I get suddenly from) that I want more force and pain from a partner than what most people would consider to be "normal"."

"Now" and "suddenly" are different concepts.

If somebody said "my hair is now over four feet long", would you assume that it had "suddenly" sprouted out to that length?

Last edited by Bramblethorn : 04-08-2013 at 06:14 AM.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:20 PM   #73
BiBunny
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I only skimmed 'cause I'm lazy, but what was said that made people think the OP was crazy? Just curious.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:48 PM   #74
Stella_Omega
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Originally Posted by BiBunny View Post
I only skimmed 'cause I'm lazy, but what was said that made people think the OP was crazy? Just curious.
Op isn't the person that sounds crazy in this thread.

~smile~
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All about Stella; My AH profile
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An essay for BDSM Newbies; Top, bottom, dominant, submissive-- and the differences thereof Now rewritten with extra sparkle!
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:02 PM   #75
BiBunny
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
Op isn't the person that sounds crazy in this thread.

~smile~
Yeah, see, I couldn't find the evidence for the OP's supposed issues, either. But I was lazy, and this thread is TL;DR, so I wanted to be sure I hadn't missed anything.
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