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Old 04-05-2013, 11:46 PM   #26
Huntress2603
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I appreciate the bluntness, Shawn. And I am getting professional help from an excellent counselor who has already helped me a great deal. I'm getting over a difficult divorce. The end of the marriage wasn't bad, it was a joyous relief and it freed me up to be with my g/f. But the legal proceedings were long and brutal and it really shook me up. Anyway, you're probably right that this isn't the right time to explore something as complex as BDSM...but I've never been very patient (or prudent, for that matter!)
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:53 PM   #27
knot_sweet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
Can I cuddle in with you? Dude's going to have to box his own shadow, there. He can announce how he's given himself a KO and we'll all believe him.

*snitches popcorn*

*budges over for Stella*

oi you don't gotta snitch the popcorn, I share good.


Is this going to be the Lit version of the fat kid with a broom handle pretending it's a lightsaber??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPPj6viIBmU
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:02 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
Can I cuddle in with you? Dude's going to have to box his own shadow, there. He can announce how he's given himself a KO and we'll all believe him.

*snitches popcorn*

I don't need to declare a winner; OP did it for me. Your passive-aggressive attitude speaks volumes about your inability to communicate in an intelligent, open and honest fashion. I'm sorry for your partner.

Next time you attempt offer advice, direct the individual toward someone who can actually help her/him.

Last edited by ShawnSwift : 04-06-2013 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:03 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knot_sweet View Post
*budges over for Stella*

oi you don't gotta snitch the popcorn, I share good.


Is this going to be the Lit version of the fat kid with a broom handle pretending it's a lightsaber??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPPj6viIBmU
I love those kids! Let's not sully their sweet innocence by comparing grown men with them.

*Squirms in with a contented sigh*

*And snitches more popcorn* it's sweeter that way...
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:12 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
I love those kids! Let's not sully their sweet innocence by comparing grown men with them.

*Squirms in with a contented sigh*

*And snitches more popcorn* it's sweeter that way...
teehee - i have a whole pile of you tube stuff that just makes me smile

this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wt824D1Bqg I have saved for the really bad days.

aahhhh stolen food is always better
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:14 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Huntress2603 View Post
I appreciate the bluntness, Shawn. And I am getting professional help from an excellent counselor who has already helped me a great deal. I'm getting over a difficult divorce. The end of the marriage wasn't bad, it was a joyous relief and it freed me up to be with my g/f. But the legal proceedings were long and brutal and it really shook me up. Anyway, you're probably right that this isn't the right time to explore something as complex as BDSM...but I've never been very patient (or prudent, for that matter!)
I'm glad to hear that. It's hard to see where someone is coming from over the internet and you were sending all kinds of concerning signals.

I can understand why communicating with your partner could be scary for you. At the same time, if you can't talk about your sexual wants and needs with the person you're having sex with, then who can you?

Start slow and gradually build towards your vision of the ultimate sexual encounter. More weight on the clamps here, more lashes with the cat o' nine there; be vocal and tell your partner "that's hot!" or "Ouch, not so rough!" Communication is key here. If it helps, I've never met an individual who didn't want to talk about sex.

Last edited by ShawnSwift : 04-06-2013 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:02 AM   #32
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You should seek professional help for your emotional trauma before you heap another layer of complexity onto your psyche (I said she should get someone to help her with her problems before she adds more issues to her plate).

BDSM should be the least of your worries; your relationship should come first (I don't need to dumb this down for you too, do I Stella?).
I see where you're coming from here, but real life ain't always that simple. For some people BDSM is not just an occasional hobby but a major psychological need, in which case it's not going to be possible to sort out a relationship while edging around an elephant in the room.

Back in the day, I had a Major Life Decision to make. But life was in a state of flux - I was finishing up my dissertation - so I decided to postpone it until things were a little more settled.

Then I ran into parenting issues that needed attention. Then a family member got ill and died. Then I lost my job, and had to find a new one. Then I got a new job but had to move cities. Before I knew it, five years had gone by... and life was still in a state of flux, and I still hadn't made that decision, and there were consequences to that. Some of them rather painful.

So, yeah, it's good to simplify life and deal with issues one at a time as far as possible, but when you have a career and two kids and a relationship and a strong inclination to BDSM, "as far as possible" might not be very much.
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Old 04-06-2013, 05:34 AM   #33
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One of the common misconceptions amongst newcomers is that you'll meet someone that can "force" you to let go and suddenly become submissive.

Submission, the actions of being submissive, are a choice. You're not a robot to be programmed. You're a human being with free will, you were born with free will and you make choices whether they're conscious or unconscious. You have to choose to let go and be submissive, no one can force you to be submissive if you don't want to, because healthy BDSM is about consent. A person can INSPIRE you to greater submission, but you are still deciding, regardless of if you're fully aware of the choice or not.

If you feel like you need someone to "make" you be submissive, then perhaps you're not looking to be submissive...perhaps you're merely looking to be a "service bottom", or a person who takes on the temporary role of a submissive *for a short time* in order to play submissive BDSM activities?

I strongly urge you to address first the "types" of BDSM orientation there are and decide what you feel like your personality most fits before you start jumping into deeper stuff? That way, you can tell the person you're exploring with how far you're willing to go, because really, that's one of the first steps, and you need to learn the terminology before you can play the games.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:50 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
And that's all we really need to know.
because we all know, truth is not determined by the content, but by the origination.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:20 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post
I see where you're coming from here, but real life ain't always that simple. For some people BDSM is not just an occasional hobby but a major psychological need, in which case it's not going to be possible to sort out a relationship while edging around an elephant in the room.

Back in the day, I had a Major Life Decision to make. But life was in a state of flux - I was finishing up my dissertation - so I decided to postpone it until things were a little more settled.

Then I ran into parenting issues that needed attention. Then a family member got ill and died. Then I lost my job, and had to find a new one. Then I got a new job but had to move cities. Before I knew it, five years had gone by... and life was still in a state of flux, and I still hadn't made that decision, and there were consequences to that. Some of them rather painful.

So, yeah, it's good to simplify life and deal with issues one at a time as far as possible, but when you have a career and two kids and a relationship and a strong inclination to BDSM, "as far as possible" might not be very much.
If it were something like androphobia or building a budding career then I would agree with you. Right now she's dealing with trust issues and possibly commitment issues though. At the end of the day, isn't BDSM rooted in trust? I don't know about the rest of you but I wouldn't want to be blindfolded and restrained while someone I wasn't absolutely positive about did w/e they wanted to me.

A slow, gradual build-up will allow her to build trust in her partner and in herself. She'll be able to say 'go' or 'woah' with confidence which will allow her to immerse herself more fully in the experience. I'm not suggesting a five-year wait but I'd def recommend she take it slow.

One last point: In your position I'd talk to your counselor and work out why you feel the urge to be hurt. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread there is an endorphin release when you're hurt which can cause pleasure. At the same time though is there another deeper, darker reason why you want pain with your pleasure? Did you feel these urges before or after your marriage? Why now? Make sure you're getting into this for all the right reasons.

Knowing who you are, what you want and why you want it can't possibly be a bad thing.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:28 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Primalex View Post
because we all know, truth is not determined by the content, but by the origination.
Quoted for truth. Keep in mind that Stella has almost 14 1/2 forum posts a day so she can't be held accountable for the quality and content of each and every one of them.

Alright, that was my last dig on Stella; I'm starting to feel bad for her.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:31 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by satindesire View Post
One of the common misconceptions amongst newcomers is that you'll meet someone that can "force" you to let go and suddenly become submissive.

Submission, the actions of being submissive, are a choice. You're not a robot to be programmed. You're a human being with free will, you were born with free will and you make choices whether they're conscious or unconscious. You have to choose to let go and be submissive, no one can force you to be submissive if you don't want to, because healthy BDSM is about consent. A person can INSPIRE you to greater submission, but you are still deciding, regardless of if you're fully aware of the choice or not.

If you feel like you need someone to "make" you be submissive, then perhaps you're not looking to be submissive...perhaps you're merely looking to be a "service bottom", or a person who takes on the temporary role of a submissive *for a short time* in order to play submissive BDSM activities?

I strongly urge you to address first the "types" of BDSM orientation there are and decide what you feel like your personality most fits before you start jumping into deeper stuff? That way, you can tell the person you're exploring with how far you're willing to go, because really, that's one of the first steps, and you need to learn the terminology before you can play the games.
Also quoted for truth. Knowing what you want and how to get it is the name of the game.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:16 AM   #38
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*sniffs air suspiciously*
Do I detect an alt here?


Moving on....
Huntress, welcome to lit.
I hope you find what you are looking for in your sexual life. It sounds as though you are with a partner who understands kink and BSDM and that is a definate plus.
I get that you are both not on the same page right now, life is kind of like that. If she is "a keeper" you have time to get through the issues arising from her current workload.
Keep communicating, trust is built when the paerson you are with proves that they can be trusted, if you have been hurt in this area before, it will take time. For me it took years (long and boring story)
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:49 AM   #39
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I will say for me BDSM is better when there is a sexual element to things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
And at the same time, it fucking well CAN be sexual. It depends on the individual. I don't do non-sexual BDSM, myself, except once in a while at a play party with someone who only wants some impact. It is pleasant but not totally satisfying for me, YMMV, but don't let anyone shame you for your own needs.

I didn't actually get an idea of what you yourself are looking for as far as that goes. You have to know that, and you have to let prospective partners know. BDSM is more complicated than vanilla sex both physically and emotionally, and kinked people don't get so much cultural validation or support for our needs and preferences. So we have to take care of a lot of that ourselves.

I'm going to echo Geoff's suggestions;
The new Topping book
The New Bottoming Book (read both please, no matter which side of the fence you feel you might sit)
Screw the roses send me the thorns
BDSM 101

They are among the earliest books published and still the best....

Also, read the essay linked to in my sig. It might ring true for you, maybe not, maybe parts of it.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:04 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Primalex View Post
because we all know, truth is not determined by the content, but by the origination.
That WAS content. And as such, I accepted it as truth.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:08 PM   #41
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You could definitely make this into a soul search and talk to your therapist and worry about deep underlying trust issues blah blah blah. Maybe it is - you already KNOW that, intuitively. Trust yourself.

If it's not, own your right to get off.

You might also see this for what it likely represents (again, YOU know, I don't) : your need for a release valve, some catharsis and possibly some orgasms yes or no it doesn't really matter. The fact that you are a parent doesn't somehow trivialize this to the point of irrelevance, yes one is Mom first, but fuck the idea that you should tiptoe through every second of your existence thinking of the children.

You want someone to boss you around for a while. Not world-ending shit.

I've approached this from a lot of angles, and I've seen what over analysis does to people's sexuality - I've seen how the therapy community often desperately wants to keep non-normative people in a state of questioning and worry, rather than fulfillment, how variation is always made into a pathology of some kind.

If YOU think your desires are rooted in your problems and you want to fix that, fix it. But don't let other people decide that for you.

Oh, if you DO take it to a pro, (you may want to, your GF may have no inclination to be into it with you and take it personal) don't assume she knows what she's doing, do your legwork. Anyone can hang a shingle, I'm afraid, so figure out if she's trustworthy by asking around and digging around and reading between the lines.
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Last edited by Netzach : 04-06-2013 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:20 PM   #42
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because we all know, truth is not determined by the content, but by the origination.
Sorry but "I fell down once" does not qualify me to advise on hang gliding.
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Old 04-06-2013, 05:31 PM   #43
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*sniffs air suspiciously*
Do I detect an alt here?
Nope, just your upper-lip. I've never been so desperate for attention that I argued/agreed with myself publically. That said, one more long-winded post before I remove this thread from my bookmarks.

Before you embark into the BDSM lifestyle, you should take a long, hard look at who you are as a person and your reasoning behind doing it. If you don't like what you see, you probably shouldn't go down this road. I know I'm stereotyping and profiling with this next comment but I'm too tired to care.

A lot of people involved in the BDSM lifestyle have some-kind of deep seated trauma or are emotionally damaged in one way or another. Your escalating need to feel pain with your pleasure proves that something isn't quite right. If you were a submissive masochist all along then why are you just now figuring it out? Are you intentionally punishing yourself for something you feel you did or didn't do? What prompted the sudden need to explore the lifestyle? What about it resonates with you?

I've been thinking about your personality all night long and the pieces just don't fit. You're an Alpha arch-type personality that is driven and involved. Something tells me that the identity crisis within your relationship stems from two dominant people trying to figure out when they should assert and when they should yield. She has previous Dom experience and-or is older, plus you've got the kids so you're wearing the skirt by default.

I know what they say about assuming and making an ass of you and me but wild speculation is all we really have to go on. I think if you want more specific help, you're going to have to give up some more specific information. I know you're already seeing a counselor but maybe it's time to see a registered sex-therapist too? Bring it up with the counselor first and ask about trust issues, BDSM and seeing a sex-therapist and see what he/she says. That individual will have more insight into who you are than any of us randoms on the internet.
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Old 04-06-2013, 05:33 PM   #44
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Sorry but "I fell down once" does not qualify me to advise on hang gliding.
The correlation just isn't there. Your attempt at trying to defeat logic with hyperbole failed.

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Old 04-06-2013, 06:01 PM   #45
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A lot of people in the BDSM lifestyle have zero trauma in their pasts.
A lot of people with trauma in their pasts are utterly vanilla.

50 Shades of Grey is not an accurate representation of BDSM people or the things they do.

The term "lifestyle" is a misnomer, albeit widely used by the kink community itself-- mostly wishful thinking. Some people incorporate dominance and submission into their relationships, some people into their sex lives, most kinksters just get off on a set of stimuli that are counted as odd or perverted by the mainstream.

Its not nearly as portentious and enormous as people think. No more than joining a baseball team because you always loved baseball.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:06 PM   #46
ShawnSwift
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Originally Posted by Netzach View Post
You could definitely make this into a soul search and talk to your therapist and worry about deep underlying trust issues blah blah blah. Maybe it is - you already KNOW that, intuitively. Trust yourself.

If it's not, own your right to get off.

You might also see this for what it likely represents (again, YOU know, I don't) : your need for a release valve, some catharsis and possibly some orgasms yes or no it doesn't really matter. The fact that you are a parent doesn't somehow trivialize this to the point of irrelevance, yes one is Mom first, but fuck the idea that you should tiptoe through every second of your existence thinking of the children.

You want someone to boss you around for a while. Not world-ending shit.

I've approached this from a lot of angles, and I've seen what over analysis does to people's sexuality - I've seen how the therapy community often desperately wants to keep non-normative people in a state of questioning and worry, rather than fulfillment, how variation is always made into a pathology of some kind.

If YOU think your desires are rooted in your problems and you want to fix that, fix it. But don't let other people decide that for you.

Oh, if you DO take it to a pro, (you may want to, your GF may have no inclination to be into it with you and take it personal) don't assume she knows what she's doing, do your legwork. Anyone can hang a shingle, I'm afraid, so figure out if she's trustworthy by asking around and digging around and reading between the lines.
This doesn't smack of conspiracy theocracy at all. It was clearly written by a well-balanced individual who has a deep understanding of the human psyche. Thank fuck you're here to discredit communication, self-awareness, dealing with emotions and going in with eyes wide open. Huntress could have made the mistake of being emotionally prepared.

/sarcasm

Are you retarded? A bad experience while gagged and an inability to call things off could undermine all of the work she has done with her counselor thus far.

As for the child point, I was referring to her partner taking her going to a Dom poorly. Add to that that her partner is an ex-Dom and yeah. Bet her kids are emotionally invested in her partner and don't want to see her go. Acting without talking it out could lead to just that (the fact that you all are debating whether or not BDSM is a sexual act leads me to believe that her partner could construe it as cheating).

One more point: If a sex therapist can't help you with the emotional ins and outs of BDSM, a random forum user where anyone and their mother can post certainly won't. Your "Act now, sort out the bodies later" mentality is dangerous and stupid.

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Old 04-06-2013, 06:16 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
A lot of people in the BDSM lifestyle have zero trauma in their pasts.
A lot of people with trauma in their pasts are utterly vanilla.

50 Shades of Grey is not an accurate representation of BDSM people or the things they do.

The term "lifestyle" is a misnomer, albeit widely used by the kink community itself-- mostly wishful thinking. Some people incorporate dominance and submission into their relationships, some people into their sex lives, most kinksters just get off on a set of stimuli that are counted as odd or perverted by the mainstream.

Its not nearly as portentious and enormous as people think. No more than joining a baseball team because you always loved baseball.
Straw Man argument using 50 shades of gray is inapplicable to the current discussion. It has been widely established that 50 shades is a false representation of the lifestyle, that the author is bad and that she should feel bad while she's cashing all of her checks.

I've never read it and don't know anyone who has. why did you bring this book up anyway?
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:13 PM   #48
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Quote:
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A lot of people have some-kind of deep seated trauma or are emotionally damaged in one way or another.
Fixed that for you.

I'll point you at Pamela Stephenson Connolly, who specialises in this stuff:

Quote:
Ten years ago, I carried out an extensive psychological study of people in the BDSM community - the largest empirical study ever done at the time - to examine their psychological attributes and determine if there was any justification for the notion, commonly held even within my field, that they were all psychologically disturbed.

After giving each of the 132 participants four hours of psychological tests, as well as a face-to-face interview, I found that, in fact, the group was generally not mentally unhealthy, and the instances of early abuse that had long been associated with the adult practice of BDSM were present in just a few.

When I presented my findings in 2003 at the annual conference of the American Association of Sex Educators, Counsellors and Therapists (the full study was published in the Journal of Psychology and Human Sexuality in 2006), the jury was still out as to whether BDSM and psychopathology went hand in hand. But since then, it has been firmly established - through the work of Peggy Kleinplatz, Charles Moser and others - that BDSM, played in a safe and consensual manner, is not proof of mental or physical illness, essential badness or emotional damage from trauma or abusive parenting, and that people cannot, and should not, be treated to cure it.
End of story. Being interested in BDSM is not a reason to start diagnosing the OP as sick or damaged.

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Your escalating need to feel pain with your pleasure proves that something isn't quite right. If you were a submissive masochist all along then why are you just now figuring it out? Are you intentionally punishing yourself for something you feel you did or didn't do? What prompted the sudden need to explore the lifestyle? What about it resonates with you?
People change throughout their lives. The reasons for those changes very often defy glib analysis.

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I've been thinking about your personality all night long and the pieces just don't fit. You're an Alpha arch-type personality that is driven and involved. Something tells me that the identity crisis within your relationship stems from two dominant people trying to figure out when they should assert and when they should yield. She has previous Dom experience and-or is older, plus you've got the kids so you're wearing the skirt by default.
Something tells me you really don't have much experience with the range of dynamics that can arise in a BDSM relationship. The last sentence in particular made me chortle.

Any in-depth psychoanalysis based on no more contact than a handful of posts on an Internet forum should be treated as what it is: a bunch of wild-ass guesses. Dressing it up in a smattering of psych terminology doesn't change that.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:17 PM   #49
Stella_Omega
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I've never read it and don't know anyone who has. why did you bring this book up anyway?
Because it sounds like you've gotten everything you know from it.
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T
Are you retarded? A bad experience while gagged and an inability to call things off could undermine all of the work she has done with her counselor thus far.
So, forego the gags. I can't remember the last time I used one, personally. I like to hear noise -- and make noise. what my partner has to say, and I like to give my partner audible feedback.

If gags are part of your kink, there are ways to signal a call-off. Keep something in your hand, like a set of noisy keys works well, that you can drop if you need to signal.

If you want to be gagged AND mitted at the same time, hold off on that until you and your partner are pretty damn sure of each other.

By the way, "are you retarded" is not a compelling argument.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:39 PM   #50
Bramblethorn
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Are you retarded? A bad experience while gagged and an inability to call things off could undermine all of the work she has done with her counselor thus far.
Gee, I'm glad you pointed that out. Because certainly none of the folk who actually have experience with BDSM had ever considered the risks that might arise with activities like gagging & new partners... or come up with ways to mitigate those risks... or written essays about that topic.

If only there was helpful information about this sort of issue, easily available in some sort of widely-known repository of knowledge.

Sarcasm off: if you are so unfamiliar with BDSM that you haven't even encountered the concept of nonverbal safewords, then perhaps you don't have quite as much to contribute here as you think you do.

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Straw Man argument using 50 shades of gray is inapplicable to the current discussion. It has been widely established that 50 shades is a false representation of the lifestyle, that the author is bad and that she should feel bad while she's cashing all of her checks.

I've never read it and don't know anyone who has. why did you bring this book up anyway?
For somebody who's never read it, you do a pretty good job of rehashing its misconceptions. One of the biggest criticisms made of that book is the selfsame "BDSM = damaged goods" misinformation that you've been posting here.
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Last edited by Bramblethorn : 04-06-2013 at 07:42 PM.
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