Bad Erotica Tropes

[Bramblethorn]

Originally Posted by NaokoSmith

Whoops! Thread colonisation.

I will start a new thread with HP's link in it, and I'll go to Naked Party and offer him biscuits until he divulges it.

Let me try to get back on topic:

I hate coke can penis stories. The minute the author says it was as big as a coke can, I start thinking about coke cans. Was it crushable too? Was it a silvery coke can or one of the old red ones?

Or the mini-sized ones they sometimes have on airlines?

[MatthewVett]

Originally Posted by MaxSebastian

And yet if they are raped as children they are flogged within an inch of their lives for having premarital sex... etc, etc, etc.

Any way, back to topic again: I hate when erotic stories have long, long passages in which a character dreams or fantasizes about having sex. I think: "hang on, this is a story. This is already a fantasy about having sex. Just get to the action!"

Maybe other people enjoy reading about characters fantasizing about fantasizing about sex, But it is something I as a reader will skip over. Just tell us this is something they always wanted to do, and get to the doing already!

Oh no, I've done this myself! I wrote a scene I liked, but realized was out of character, so fuck it! I thought to myself, I'll just make it an unannounced fantasy and surprise my readers and get to keep the shower blowjob scene.

[Ironiclaconic]

Originally Posted by LiquidMatthew

Oh no, I've done this myself! I wrote a scene I liked, but realized was out of character, so fuck it! I thought to myself, I'll just make it an unannounced fantasy and surprise my readers and get to keep the shower blowjob scene.

Fantasy sequences are fine if they fit into character. I am writing a story now involving a woman who is broadening her sexual horizons and I felt that I needed an early fantasy scene with her to set up the character arc where her later actions are a result of greater confidence and a lack of accountability, not a result of some inexplicable sluttification.

Mileage varies, obviously. You can't make all readers happy. There has always been a tension between "stroke" stories and character-driven stories. Partly what I see on this thread is each group pointing fingers at the tropes of the other.

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by Ironiclaconic

Partly what I see on this thread is each group pointing fingers at the tropes of the other.

Well, yes, that's the way it is with all of these threads telling others what to or not to write.

[lovecraft68]

First to the OP I also don't like those "sis looks hot, why not" incest stories

However they are not all like that and I make a serious effort to make mine a lot more "believable" or let me say as believable as the category allows.

I think the only trope that will totally turn me away from a story is the shy young virgin who somehow in the span of a lit page becomes a cum guzzling gang banging slut who can take ten guys at once and has moves Bree Olsen hasn't seen.

But having said that, that doesn't mean there aren't people who like it so I am not condemning it, just saying its the one that makes me say "whatever"

[NaokoSmith]

Originally Posted by Bramblethorn

Or the mini-sized ones they sometimes have on airlines?

ROFLMAO!

[bashfullyshameless]

I do not begrudge the Loving Wives category in any way -- you get what you pay for.

BUT: I would really, really love it if just once there was a story about a woman sleeping with her super-sexy boss (because seduction or blackmail or "just this once" or "you'll never work in this town again" or whatever), and then coming away from it thinking... "Huh, that was good sex and all, but WOW my husband is better."

I have many times toyed with the idea of writing a story on those lines. I haven't yet because I didn't want to come off as bashing the whole LW category, and for all I know there are plenty such stories in that category that I just couldn't find. But yeah, that's the thing that makes me wince when it comes to LW. It's not the infidelity that I can't handle; it's the way that so many of them are about viciously belittling the husband and/or calling the wife a slut/whore/whatever.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Originally Posted by bashfullyshameless

I do not begrudge the Loving Wives category in any way -- you get what you pay for.

BUT: I would really, really love it if just once there was a story about a woman sleeping with her super-sexy boss (because seduction or blackmail or "just this once" or "you'll never work in this town again" or whatever), and then coming away from it thinking... "Huh, that was good sex and all, but WOW my husband is better."

I have many times toyed with the idea of writing a story on those lines. I haven't yet because I didn't want to come off as bashing the whole LW category, and for all I know there are plenty such stories in that category that I just couldn't find. But yeah, that's the thing that makes me wince when it comes to LW. It's not the infidelity that I can't handle; it's the way that so many of them are about viciously belittling the Busband and/or calling the wife a slut/whore/whatever.

I think it helps to grasp the dynamics of infidelity. Its usually the result of betrayal and treachery by the husband. That is, the female contracts with her husband for all the husbandly goods and services women expect, and he violates the contract until she erupts and gets her pound of flesh from him. Females are by nature 'quid pro quo' creatures, and the average female is slicker than a pawn dealer.

By betrayal and treachery I mean to imply that the husband ceases to be available to the female, via alcohol/drug use, work, disability, affairs, jail, travel, sulks, or arrested maturity (he's abusive or negligent or trying to change the relationship from man/wife to mother/son). And she gets her needs met elsewhere. And if she isnt happy with the arrangement (transient sexual partners as payment for his bullshit) she erupts with hostility at the husband. But so long as she stays with him he gets his payoff. I always look at the cucks wife as the real victim. They stay because theyre dependent personalities.

With some serious therapy he might neutralize her anger and become attractive again, then you'd see reconcilitation stories.

[NoJo]

If you took away the cliches from the stories here, you would probably free up about 180 Terabytes of disk space on the lit file servers.

[MatthewVett]

Originally Posted by bashfullyshameless

I do not begrudge the Loving Wives category in any way -- you get what you pay for.

BUT: I would really, really love it if just once there was a story about a woman sleeping with her super-sexy boss (because seduction or blackmail or "just this once" or "you'll never work in this town again" or whatever), and then coming away from it thinking... "Huh, that was good sex and all, but WOW my husband is better."

I have many times toyed with the idea of writing a story on those lines. I haven't yet because I didn't want to come off as bashing the whole LW category, and for all I know there are plenty such stories in that category that I just couldn't find. But yeah, that's the thing that makes me wince when it comes to LW. It's not the infidelity that I can't handle; it's the way that so many of them are about viciously belittling the husband and/or calling the wife a slut/whore/whatever.

Go for it! Break the mold!

[MichaelWest]

Tropes are a double-edged sword, they are familar and well travelled paths, yet also predictable and formulaic. I think many writers want to break the mold at times, and if possible reboot the trope, creating a new one if possible. Every story I write I try to be aware of the trope I am going with, across or against the grain of. And I sometimes take the trope I dislike and write it, subvert it or follow it to see if I can do something that pleases me with it.

[PennLady]

Originally Posted by MichaelWest

Tropes are a double-edged sword, they are familar and well travelled paths, yet also predictable and formulaic. I think many writers want to break the mold at times, and if possible reboot the trope, creating a new one if possible. Every story I write I try to be aware of the trope I am going with, across or against the grain of. And I sometimes take the trope I dislike and write it, subvert it or follow it to see if I can do something that pleases me with it.

True, and also, sometimes the trope itself can be explored more deeply. sr71 said in one post that this is another thread about telling people what not to write, but that's not what I'm after. I don't care what other people write, but I can say that if I find one of those -- to me -- overused themes, I'm likely to stop reading. But that's my choice, and others will still enjoy it.

Sometimes, as well, the trope fits the story, for whatever reason.

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by MichaelWest

Tropes are a double-edged sword, they are familar and well travelled paths, yet also predictable and formulaic. I think many writers want to break the mold at times, and if possible reboot the trope, creating a new one if possible. Every story I write I try to be aware of the trope I am going with, across or against the grain of. And I sometimes take the trope I dislike and write it, subvert it or follow it to see if I can do something that pleases me with it.

The flip side is that many readers prefer going the "familiar and well-traveled paths" in what they read (a really lot of readers!), so it's a balancing act.

[SpikeLonginus]

I recognize a lot of these and agree with them. Even though I might have unconsciously used a few. But it's hard to be original. Actually, I was called out on tumblr for writing "bad porn scripts." Although I'd been going on for over 70.000 words.

As for the tropes, I think that it's not a bad idea to go with these. I mean, they're tropes for a reason. They work, if used correctly.

[MichaelWest]

I quote from TVTropes: "Writers understand tropes and use them to control audience expectations either by using them straight or by subverting them, to convey things to the audience quickly without saying them."

So I agree, Tropes are not bad, and they are not good. It is a balancing act, use them, avoid them, subvert them, embrace them. But I try to be aware of them as I write. And I recognize them as I read. My wife hates when I predict endings on shows or at movies, but it is not magic, it is a trope being played out. Some that I find too well worn are "All Truly Hot Women Have D-cups" and "I Will Go Crazy For Any Cock 8 Inches or Bigger," or "Yesterday I was a Virgin, Today I am Slut, Tomorrow I am a Whore," and many more. But I don't fault the author for using even the tropes I find boring. I will read if I think it might tell that story in a new way, or the same story better. After all, There is Nothing New Under the Sun.

[Saxon_Hart]

One trope that always ruined incest stories for me was the mom and/or dad catching the siblings and then an orgy ensuing. For me the thrill of the incest was they were doing something forbidden, and the aspect of getting caught added to the thrill. Once it became family knowledge and accepted it ruined the whole thing. That's probably why I quit reading the category.

[MatthewVett]

Originally Posted by Saxon_Hart

One trope that always ruined incest stories for me was the mom and/or dad catching the siblings and then an orgy ensuing. For me the thrill of the incest was they were doing something forbidden, and the aspect of getting caught added to the thrill. Once it became family knowledge and accepted it ruined the whole thing. That's probably why I quit reading the category.

I agree. A lot of incest stories I read have absolutely no taboo factor, no tension, no waiting, no chemistry. The story would be exactly the same if they weren't related.

[lovecraft68]

Originally Posted by sr71plt

The flip side is that many readers prefer going the "familiar and well-traveled paths" in what they read (a really lot of readers!), so it's a balancing act.

Yup.

All my happy fluffy mother/son stories do very well here. But when I throw something that's not so fun in there (like an abusive alcoholic father) and add a touch of reality to it, those do no where near as well.

Its of my belief that in reality anyone who would commit consensual incest has to have some screws loose and be broken in some way. When I go that route the fans are not happy.

[txblush]

Originally Posted by PennLady

I get tired of the shy, virginal women who are suddenly hot, sensual, experienced babes in bed.

Also, women who are strong and self-confident, but lose all traces of that when the hot guy looks at them. They suddenly can't think or talk or function until they've had sex with the guy.

I'll second this one.

[lovecraft68]

Originally Posted by LiquidMatthew

I agree. A lot of incest stories I read have absolutely no taboo factor, no tension, no waiting, no chemistry. The story would be exactly the same if they weren't related.

Try mine.

I strive to be different with that. In fact I took some heat because in one story when the mother first found out her son wanted her she took his ass to a therapist.

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by txblush

I'll second this one.

OK now, here's where I think you're not getting what the purpose and foundation of erotica is as opposed to real life. Underneath this trope is the fantasy that just below the surface in all women--whatever woman a man wished he could get who walks by him in life--is a raging sex goddess who would be responsive to the one having the fantasy (or could be that woman). That's a real arousal device. That it would be used in writing erotica that turns readers on should be no surprise or badmounted as "bad trope." It's a great trope if you are able to latch into what erotica is and what it's meant to do.

That's why, to me, threads like this are sort of stupid. Can't differentiate between the erotica genre and what its function is and real life.

[MichaelinChina]

Originally Posted by MichaelWest

I quote from TVTropes: "Writers understand tropes and use them to control audience expectations either by using them straight or by subverting them, to convey things to the audience quickly without saying them."

So I agree, Tropes are not bad, and they are not good. It is a balancing act, use them, avoid them, subvert them, embrace them. But I try to be aware of them as I write. And I recognize them as I read. My wife hates when I predict endings on shows or at movies, but it is not magic, it is a trope being played out. Some that I find too well worn are "All Truly Hot Women Have D-cups" and "I Will Go Crazy For Any Cock 8 Inches or Bigger," or "Yesterday I was a Virgin, Today I am Slut, Tomorrow I am a Whore," and many more. But I don't fault the author for using even the tropes I find boring. I will read if I think it might tell that story in a new way, or the same story better. After all, There is Nothing New Under the Sun.

Very informative piece.

[MichaelinChina]

Originally Posted by sr71plt

That's why, to me, threads like this are sort of stupid. Can't differentiate between the erotica genre and what its function is and real life.

I disagree. Opening up the discussion from merely identifying particular tropes to explaining ideas about the use of tropes, such as the one posted by Michael West, does not make it a 'stupid' thread.

And if you understand the differentiation already, well good on you!

[txblush]

Originally Posted by D_Lynn

I am fed up with the recurring theme (thanks to Fifty Shades) of the uber-wealthy Dom who goes crazy over an unsuspecting virgin...stalks her...takes her...becomes obsessed with her...and changes who he is because of her. And on the other side of that bed is the virgin who is now spreading her legs 6 times a day and climaxing every single time. I've picked up 3 books like this, not realizing that it was the same story from a different author in slightly different settings.

I also personally do not like reading about anal without any sort of prep.
Or for that matter, any story where the circumstance is so obviously contrived for the sex that it is totally unrealistic.

This is another one that is soooo overused it's sickening.

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by MichaelinChina

I disagree. Opening up the discussion from merely identifying particular tropes to explaining ideas about the use of tropes, such as the one posted by Michael West, does not make it a 'stupid' thread.

And if you understand the differentiation already, well good on you!

Disagreement's perfectly fine here. And as long as you understand that, well good on you.

Anything I see here leaning on writers about what they should/shouldn't write brings out the disagreement in me.