Bad Erotica Tropes

[Cruel2BKind]

Everything I hate in porn comes down to the simple fact that I cannot imagine myself doing it.

I hate it when people are incredibly vocal during sex.

I dislike it when there is very little kissing/foreplay/buildup. (not asking for thirty minutes here, but how about ten? Five? Please? Anyone?)

I dislike it when male characters act like shy female virgins.

And here's a relative new one, an epidemic that has been attacking the series' in the gay male section.

Everyone is gay.

Everyone.

Everyone in the story line will be gay.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Originally Posted by Cruel2BKind

Everything I hate in porn comes down to the simple fact that I cannot imagine myself doing it.

I hate it when people are incredibly vocal during sex.

I dislike it when there is very little kissing/foreplay/buildup. (not asking for thirty minutes here, but how about ten? Five? Please? Anyone?)

I dislike it when male characters act like shy female virgins.

And here's a relative new one, an epidemic that has been attacking the series' in the gay male section.

Everyone is gay.

Everyone.

Everyone in the story line will be gay.

Based on my years of experience with women, going back to 1960s, theyre worse than the men when it comes to horn dogging. Theyre brutal when theyre horny.

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by Cruel2BKind

And here's a relative new one, an epidemic that has been attacking the series' in the gay male section.

Everyone is gay.

Everyone.

Everyone in the story line will be gay.

Absolutely right. Nearly everyone in my GM stories is a gay male. I create GM worlds for actual gay male readers. And I don't waste a whole lot of space and irrelevant subplots on side issues outside of that world.

It's almost a given in my stories that gay males recognize each other as such and even can usually tell top or bottom inclination. That's pretty much the way it is in the actual gay male world, so that's how I write it--for the actual gay male audience. None of this "let's pretend" stuff for my target audience.

I'm willing to bet that real lesbian writers writing for real lesbians write a lesbian-dominated world too and that this is what real BDSM writers do with BDSM worlds too.

[Stella_Omega]

Originally Posted by sr71plt

Absolutely right. Nearly everyone in my GM stories is a gay male. I create GM worlds for actual gay male readers. And I don't waste a whole lot of space and irrelevant subplots on side issues outside of that world.

It's almost a given in my stories that gay males recognize each other as such and even can usually tell top or bottom inclination. That's pretty much the way it is in the actual gay male world, so that's how I write it--for the actual gay male audience. None of this "let's pretend" stuff for my target audience.

I'm willing to bet that real lesbian writers writing for real lesbians write a lesbian-dominated world too and that this is what real BDSM writers do with BDSM worlds too.

Well sure, when the story is short and "everyone" equals the principles and their close friends or the people in the bar. No problem. I can write a story about two people who meet and fuck and yeah-- everyone will be whatever orientation-- all both of them. No dissonance at all.

But a series or a novel, -- I couldn't write a long work without acknowledging the outside world somehow. And if I made that world all gay all the time I would have to justify it to my readers who know damn well that the world isn't.

Seems to me we've had this conversation... Seems to me you ignored the concept of longer work and more-than-stroke in that convo too.

[Stella_Omega]

Originally Posted by sr71plt

Absolutely right. Nearly everyone in my GM stories is a gay male. I create GM worlds for actual gay male readers. And I don't waste a whole lot of space and irrelevant subplots on side issues outside of that world.

It's almost a given in my stories that gay males recognize each other as such and even can usually tell top or bottom inclination. That's pretty much the way it is in the actual gay male world, so that's how I write it--for the actual gay male audience. None of this "let's pretend" stuff for my target audience.

I'm willing to bet that real lesbian writers writing for real lesbians write a lesbian-dominated world too and that this is what real BDSM writers do with BDSM worlds too.

Well sure, when the story is short and "everyone" equals the principles and their close friends or the people in the bar. No problem. I can write a story about two people who meet and fuck and yeah-- everyone will be whatever orientation-- all both of them. No dissonance at all.

But a series or a novel, -- I couldn't write a long work without acknowledging the outside world somehow. And if I made that world all gay all the time I would have to justify it to my readers who know damn well that the world isn't.

Seems to me we've had this conversation... Seems to me you ignored the concept of longer work and more-than-stroke in that convo too.

[sr71plt]

I think my novel-length GM novels do just fine. How about your novel-length lesbian ones, since you seem to know how to do it? (as well as everything else that you don't actually do. Not a bit surprised that you feel qualified to advise on what gay males want to read. And not at all surprised that you couldn't keep fringe politics and macro social issues out of any novel you wrote either--if you actually wrote a novel. )

I don't think I've ever read a GM mainstream-distributed novel that didn't center on a GM-dominated character set--or that tried to deal with abortion or nuclear proliferation. Have you? Or Cruel? And bullshit on the concept that any line of novels has to tramp in big gobs of the outside world. If you truly believe that, you haven't read many novels.

[MaxSebastian]

Originally Posted by NaokoSmith

...in which Fatima Mernissi talks about how in the West the ideal of beautiful femininity includes dumb as they come, while in the harems of Islamic empires, top price was paid for women who were not only beautiful but knew algebra and several languages...

Frankly astounded at the suggestion that western culture is somehow behind the Islamic world on women's lib (harems of maths geeks, the answer to empowering women?)... but anyway...

Back to topic - I'm getting quite bored of stories where there's some wacky Sex Club or BDSM Club in some dark back alley that ordinary people go to and - gosh - dirty things are happening that either (a.) was their secret fantasy all along, and now it's all right because there's a Sex Club for it or (b.) instantly transforms them into a BDSM expert.

I blame Eyes Wide Shut, but it's just an easy device to get straight from ordinary life to some kink or fetish, I suppose.

p.s. Mark me down for also being sick of the whole Billionaire-with-a-past thing, which has become as tired as vampires (which saddens me far less than the fact that vampires have become tired).

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Originally Posted by MaxSebastian

Frankly astounded at the suggestion that western culture is somehow behind the Islamic world on women's lib (harems of maths geeks, the answer to empowering women?)... but anyway...

Back to topic - I'm getting quite bored of stories where there's some wacky Sex Club or BDSM Club in some dark back alley that ordinary people go to and - gosh - dirty things are happening that either (a.) was their secret fantasy all along, and now it's all right because there's a Sex Club for it or (b.) instantly transforms them into a BDSM expert.

I blame Eyes Wide Shut, but it's just an easy device to get straight from ordinary life to some kink or fetish, I suppose.

p.s. Mark me down for also being sick of the whole Billionaire-with-a-past thing, which has become as tired as vampires (which saddens me far less than the fact that vampires have become tired).

Occidental/Hesparian-phobia is all the rage in Britain, now.

[NaokoSmith]

Originally Posted by MaxSebastian

Frankly astounded at the suggestion that western culture is somehow behind the Islamic world on women's lib (harems of maths geeks, the answer to empowering women?)... but anyway...

In The Secret Life of Syrian Lingerie, the author takes a peek at what women wear under their burqas. Muslim women have much cheekier lingerie than Christian, they wear squeaky bras and lingerie with Islamic political symbolism on it to really get their blokes going.

One Christian woman comments that they are apparently more free on the outside but that Muslim women are less sexually inhibited.

I did have a long conversation with TX_Rad about this but it was on a spam thread so it may have slipped general attention. I found some photos of Islamic babes too shared by a lesbian chum on Facebook which I keep meaning to post for the Texan, when I get time off from sewing Cub Scout badges. I think HP had a link to a video of someone not putting on very much before going out with a burqa to cover their not-very-much. I forgot to Bookmark it but perhaps HP still has it in a secret hiding place.

[Handley_Page]

Originally Posted by NaokoSmith

In The Secret Life of Syrian Lingerie, the author takes a peek at what women wear under their burqas. Muslim women have much cheekier lingerie than Christian, they wear squeaky bras and lingerie with Islamic political symbolism on it to really get their blokes going.

One Christian woman comments that they are apparently more free on the outside but that Muslim women are less sexually inhibited.
I think HP had a link to a video of someone not putting on very much before going out with a burqa to cover their not-very-much. I forgot to Bookmark it but perhaps HP still has it in a secret hiding place.

It's on You-Tube

[Handley_Page]

Re: that interesting advert:
It's on You Tube.

[MatthewVett]

Originally Posted by Handley_Page

Re: that interesting advert:
It's on You Tube.

What's it called? I'm pretty curious...

And getting back on topic, I dislike when supernatural stories have the one noble member of the monster's race rescuing the main character, but it's okay, they're totally regretful over being a horrible, murderous monster.

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by LiquidMatthew

What's it called? I'm pretty curious...

And getting back on topic, I dislike when supernatural stories have the one noble member of the monster's race rescuing the main character, but it's okay, they're totally regretful over being a horrible, murderous monster.

Ouch. Does it count if they save the other monster by burning them up together?

[Stella_Omega]

Originally Posted by Handley_Page

Re: that interesting advert:
It's on You Tube.

It's perfectly okay to link to it. And I wish you would.

[MaxSebastian]

Originally Posted by NaokoSmith

Muslim women have much cheekier lingerie than Christian, they wear squeaky bras and lingerie with Islamic political symbolism on it to really get their blokes going... they are apparently more free on the outside but that Muslim women are less sexually inhibited...

And yet if they are raped as children they are flogged within an inch of their lives for having premarital sex... etc, etc, etc.

Any way, back to topic again: I hate when erotic stories have long, long passages in which a character dreams or fantasizes about having sex. I think: "hang on, this is a story. This is already a fantasy about having sex. Just get to the action!"

Maybe other people enjoy reading about characters fantasizing about fantasizing about sex, But it is something I as a reader will skip over. Just tell us this is something they always wanted to do, and get to the doing already!

[Ironiclaconic]

I think it's fair to point out that female freedom in the Islamic world is infinitely more complex than is portrayed in the western media, and that in Medieval times the west was a relative backwater, but let's not delude ourselves that women in Islamic countries are better off today, regardless of what naughty things are going on underneath burkas or behind closed doors. There is a heroic girl from Afghanistan that was shot in the head for wanting an education, for Chrissake. Meanwhile, in the US women are a majority of college graduates.

/rant off

As for bad tropes, I really dislike characters who serve as nothing else than a sex fantasy prop. Yes, I realize that is partly what is going on in all these stories, but it's far more immersive and effective when there is a real, recognizable character acting with real motivation.

So...

Virgin-to-gangbanging-slut in 5.6 seconds.

"Hey, I barely know you and I just walked in on you having sex, but mind if I join in?"

"Yes, I see you cheating on me with my best friend, but secretly, I have always wanted to do her as well, so mind if I join in?"

"Hey, honey, I have a new member for our harem," and all the women instantly behave like they are long-lost incestuous sisters.

Almost every incest scenario.

Women who love nothing better than losing their freedom, identity and dignity to a narcissistic, abusive, sociopath.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Islam is dandy if youre dating a raghead.

[chocolatecookie3]

Originally Posted by Ironiclaconic

I think it's fair to point out that female freedom in the Islamic world is infinitely more complex than is portrayed in the western media, and that in Medieval times the west was a relative backwater, but let's not delude ourselves that women in Islamic countries are better off today, regardless of what naughty things are going on underneath burkas or behind closed doors. There is a heroic girl from Afghanistan that was shot in the head for wanting an education, for Chrissake. Meanwhile, in the US women are a majority of college graduates.

/rant off

As for bad tropes, I really dislike characters who serve as nothing else than a sex fantasy prop. Yes, I realize that is partly what is going on in all these stories, but it's far more immersive and effective when there is a real, recognizable character acting with real motivation.

So...

Virgin-to-gangbanging-slut in 5.6 seconds.

"Hey, I barely know you and I just walked in on you having sex, but mind if I join in?"

"Yes, I see you cheating on me with my best friend, but secretly, I have always wanted to do her as well, so mind if I join in?"

"Hey, honey, I have a new member for our harem," and all the women instantly behave like they are long-lost incestuous sisters.

Almost every incest scenario.

Women who love nothing better than losing their freedom, identity and dignity to a narcissistic, abusive, sociopath.

I was going to say I had not done many tropes until this post! Guilty of a couple, actually. I hate all the hot blonds who can deep throat.

[Ironiclaconic]

Originally Posted by chocolatecookie3

I hate all the hot blonds who can deep throat.

Me too. There is a circle in hell just for them. If I play my cards right, I will supervise it someday.

[Bramblethorn]

Originally Posted by Ironiclaconic

I think it's fair to point out that female freedom in the Islamic world is infinitely more complex than is portrayed in the western media, and that in Medieval times the west was a relative backwater, but let's not delude ourselves that women in Islamic countries are better off today, regardless of what naughty things are going on underneath burkas or behind closed doors. There is a heroic girl from Afghanistan that was shot in the head for wanting an education, for Chrissake. Meanwhile, in the US women are a majority of college graduates.

Obligatory note also that "Islamic countries" are not a monolith. Even within a single country there's huge variation; I live near the biggest Islamic country in the world and it spans everything from "entirely optional" to "compulsory hijab".

The "majority of college graduates" stat is hard to interpret on its own. I could read that as "US educational system favours women", but I could also read it as "women are more likely to try for a degree because it's harder for them to get a job without one".

The fact that US women are 57 percent of all college students but only 26 percent of full professors, 23 percent of university presidents and 14 percent of presidents at the doctoral degree-granting institutions is instructive, as is the fact that female faculty make 82% of what male faculty make.

I'll also note that in Iran, 60% of university students are women but I doubt anybody would hold that up as a sign of female equality. This stuff is complex.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Originally Posted by Bramblethorn

Obligatory note also that "Islamic countries" are not a monolith. Even within a single country there's huge variation; I live near the biggest Islamic country in the world and it spans everything from "entirely optional" to "compulsory hijab".

The "majority of college graduates" stat is hard to interpret on its own. I could read that as "US educational system favours women", but I could also read it as "women are more likely to try for a degree because it's harder for them to get a job without one".

The fact that US women are 57 percent of all college students but only 26 percent of full professors, 23 percent of university presidents and 14 percent of presidents at the doctoral degree-granting institutions is instructive, as is the fact that female faculty make 82% of what male faculty make.

I'll also note that in Iran, 60% of university students are women but I doubt anybody would hold that up as a sign of female equality. This stuff is complex.

You live in the UK? Britainistan?

[HeyAll]

When the moaning goes overboard. ie "ARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!"

I saw someone leave a comment saying "I didn't know they were pirates."

Kind of off topic, but the word "cooed" has always been a pet peeve of mine when I see that used in stories. For some reason it just bothers me. I wish that word would have never been invented.

[Ironiclaconic]

Originally Posted by Bramblethorn

Obligatory note also that "Islamic countries" are not a monolith. Even within a single country there's huge variation; I live near the biggest Islamic country in the world and it spans everything from "entirely optional" to "compulsory hijab".

The "majority of college graduates" stat is hard to interpret on its own. I could read that as "US educational system favours women", but I could also read it as "women are more likely to try for a degree because it's harder for them to get a job without one".

The fact that US women are 57 percent of all college students but only 26 percent of full professors, 23 percent of university presidents and 14 percent of presidents at the doctoral degree-granting institutions is instructive, as is the fact that female faculty make 82% of what male faculty make.

I'll also note that in Iran, 60% of university students are women but I doubt anybody would hold that up as a sign of female equality. This stuff is complex.

The difference in equality shows up in other metrics, like the unemployment rate for educated women in Iran hanging around 40%. This stuff is definitely complex but not impossible.

[NaokoSmith]

Whoops! Thread colonisation.

I will start a new thread with HP's link in it, and I'll go to Naked Party and offer him biscuits until he divulges it.

Let me try to get back on topic:

I hate coke can penis stories. The minute the author says it was as big as a coke can, I start thinking about coke cans. Was it crushable too? Was it a silvery coke can or one of the old red ones?

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The question youre forced to consider is, WOULD I RATHER BE A SLAVE FOR THE CAPITALIST PIGS or WOULD I RATHER BE A SLAVE IN AN ISLAMIC PARADISE?