Story likeability

[loquere]

Originally Posted by JAMESBJOHNSON

I think it was William Randolph Hearst who said, IF YOU WANNA WRITE MESSAGES GO TO WORK FOR WESTERN UNION.

Wrong. It was Samuel Goldwyn. WRITE ME A COMEDY AND SEND YOUR MESSAGES TO WESTERN UNION.

Thanks for the message!

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Originally Posted by loquere

Thanks for the message!

Plenty of folks got the idea that LIT is affiliated with Chautauqua.

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by JAMESBJOHNSON

Plenty of folks got the idea that LIT is affiliated with Chautauqua.

A few, yes. They can't either storytell or forum post without a sermon attached.

[loquere]

Originally Posted by JAMESBJOHNSON

Plenty of folks got the idea that LIT is affiliated with Chautauqua.

It's always better to aim for something a little better than literrary equivelant to the jerseyshore. I'm for from wrting timeless pieces, but it's important to try. Some of my favourite stories on here are Jersey shrish, but the one's I love are unusual typicaly underated intent focused pieces.

My favourite story I wrote was the one where I killed a rapist, and a it was my first interracial which was a huge coo!

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Originally Posted by loquere

It's always better to aim for something a little better than literrary equivelant to the jerseyshore. I'm for from wrting timeless pieces, but it's important to try. Some of my favourite stories on here are Jersey shrish, but the one's I love are unusual typicaly underated intent focused pieces.

My favourite story I wrote was the one where I killed a rapist, and a it was my first interracial which was a huge coo!

The reason newspapers are going bust us because theyre doing uplift, and nobody gives a crap about uplift. People wanna read about the crack whore who has 7 births and 13 miscarriages and 2 dead kids on her score sheet.

If people wanna write uplift more power to them. I'm aiming for Holy Fuck!

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by JAMESBJOHNSON

The reason newspapers are going bust us because theyre doing uplift, and nobody gives a crap about uplift. People wanna read about the crack whore who has 7 births and 13 miscarriages and 2 dead kids on her score sheet.

If people wanna write uplift more power to them. I'm aiming for Holy Fuck!

You keep giving really stupid reasons why newspapers are going bust. First, they aren't. They are going digital. And that the bulk of consumers want their news digitally and faster/more often than once a day is why the print newspaper concept is dying.

[BuckyDuckman]

Originally Posted by sr71plt

You keep giving really stupid reasons why newspapers are going bust. First, they aren't. They are going digital. And that the bulk of consumers want their news digitally and faster/more often than once a day is why the print newspaper concept is dying.

Oy, local newspapers (and local TV will soon follow, imho) are going the way of the dinosaur. With social media, news travels faster than media can keep up.

What does "the news" have to offer? Not reporting anymore. We have the tools to "know" things as fast as the "the news." It's not "news" anymore. And the resources news outlets need to 1) collect news and 2) fact check it will keep it forever behind social media.

Worse, head to a local newspaper or television station's website and they're a hot mess. Crammed with crappy banner ads, sucker links, "advertorials," and a complete lack of design. The local news outlets are running scared in their efforts to monetize their web presence.

What can the news, especially the local news, offer? Crack that nut, demonstrate that it works and you're in great shape.

[sr71plt]

Nope. You're going with the popular gripe on this. The demise of print media stems directly from the change in how folks want to view their "news" (whatever that is) and how fast/often they want to get it. The content of the "news" is closely programed from what frequent polls tell the media the majority of viewers in the chosen demographic want to see/hear. You and other complainers (which would include me) just aren't in the majority viewer or demographic set.

And the owners of the media aren't changing in the context of what sort of owners buy/control what and aren't going anywhere. They've just changed delivery modes.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

PILOTs fulla shit per usual. The daily papers ARE losing their asses, and the magazines are folding. The writing sux, the content is boring, and the product costs too much money.

[damppanties]

Going back to the thread topic, a story that has likeable (lawful/pure) characters does not mean that it's an engrossing or good story. You can have perfect angel-like characters and still have a horribly boring story. A good story would make the reader interested in spite of the characters not being 'likeable'.

And since LaRascasse is aware of the story I'm talking about, I'll offer Collision as an example. The protag is a selfish ass, or at least painted that way in the beginning. You're still invested in the story not because you identify with him or like him, but because you want to know what happens to him as you're swept up in his conflict. Well, hopefully you are (both swept up and invested ).

The most popular news is always about bad things. Human nature is horrifically attracted to shootings and train wrecks.

That said, something relatable could be archetypes in storylines. If you start writing about the ogre who wins and the good/lawful character who loses in the end, there's something in there that doesn't quite resonate with the reader. So I think what you need to aim for is internal consistency and a hint, however subdued, of good trumping evil in the end. In your example, if the girl is out for revenge, that might be enough of a justification for her to get the guy arrested for possession of cocaine. Make sure the crime is horrific enough to warrant the retaliation though, or you could make the guy into the victim. People always side with the victim if there is one.

ps. Bonus example: In the Abhishek-Aishwarya starrer Raavan, Ram was painted as the evil/jealous guy and Ravaan was the victim in a fascinating take on the age-old story. I only wish the storytelling and acting could have been as top-notch as the idea was.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Originally Posted by damppanties

Going back to the thread topic, a story that has likeable (lawful/pure) characters does not mean that it's an engrossing or good story. You can have perfect angel-like characters and still have a horribly boring story. A good story would make the reader interested in spite of the characters not being 'likeable'.

And since LaRascasse is aware of the story I'm talking about, I'll offer Collision as an example. The protag is a selfish ass, or at least painted that way in the beginning. You're still invested in the story not because you identify with him or like him, but because you want to know what happens to him as you're swept up in his conflict. Well, hopefully you are (both swept up and invested ).

The most popular news is always about bad things. Human nature is horrifically attracted to shootings and train wrecks.

That said, something relatable could be archetypes in storylines. If you start writing about the ogre who wins and the good/lawful character who loses in the end, there's something in there that doesn't quite resonate with the reader. So I think what you need to aim for is internal consistency and a hint, however subdued, of good trumping evil in the end. In your example, if the girl is out for revenge, that might be enough of a justification for her to get the guy arrested for possession of cocaine. Make sure the crime is horrific enough to warrant the retaliation though, or you could make the guy into the victim. People always side with the victim if there is one.

ps. Bonus example: In the Abhishek-Aishwarya starrer Raavan, Ram was painted as the evil/jealous guy and Ravaan was the victim in a fascinating take on the age-old story. I only wish the storytelling and acting could have been as top-notch as the idea was.

BS Read some Pete Dexter. Evil always triumphs in his books. A woman saves a man's life from certain execution and frees him from prison, and he murders her.

[damppanties]

Originally Posted by JAMESBJOHNSON

BS Read some Pete Dexter. Evil always triumphs in his books. A woman saves a man's life from certain execution and frees him from prison, and he murders her.

Okay. I said, "Human nature is horrifically attracted to shootings and train wrecks." Yes, you can have a good (engrossing) story where evil wins.

It's also true that readers identify with victims if there are any. IMO, the emotional involvement of a reader is a great factor in addition to cerebral enjoyment of the mechanics of storytelling and the satisfaction of good triumphing over evil is an emotional high. What kind of an emotional high would innocents being murdered produce... except for a horrified attraction to blood and gore aka train wrecks?

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Originally Posted by damppanties

Okay. I said, "Human nature is horrifically attracted to shootings and train wrecks." Yes, you can have a good (engrossing) story where evil wins.

It's also true that readers identify with victims if there are any. IMO, the emotional involvement of a reader is a great factor in addition to cerebral enjoyment of the mechanics of storytelling and the satisfaction of good triumphing over evil is an emotional high. What kind of an emotional high would innocents being murdered produce... except for a horrified attraction to blood and gore aka train wrecks?

Once upon a time stories offered plausible solutions to problems, people read stories to learn how to cope better.

[damppanties]

Originally Posted by JAMESBJOHNSON

Once upon a time stories offered plausible solutions to problems, people read stories to learn how to cope better.

No idea how that relates to the discussion we're having. Mind elaborating?

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Originally Posted by damppanties

No idea how that relates to the discussion we're having. Mind elaborating?

Sorry, I dont do affirmative action style explaining. My post is logical and obvious.

[damppanties]

Originally Posted by JAMESBJOHNSON

Sorry, I dont do affirmative action style explaining. My post is logical and obvious.

Okay.

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by JAMESBJOHNSON

PILOTs fulla shit per usual. The daily papers ARE losing their asses, and the magazines are folding. The writing sux, the content is boring, and the product costs too much money.

You're not following this back to the owners. They are still there, still working in media, still billionaires. They've changed the mode. They haven't folded. The independent daily papers died a long time ago. Conglomerates own nearly all of it; they still are in the media business; and they still are billionaires.

[sr71plt]

On the thread issue, it possibly should occur that there isn't just one reader out there expecting/demanding one story formula/character type/story resolution.

[oggbashan]

Originally Posted by sr71plt

On the thread issue, it possibly should occur that there isn't just one reader out there expecting/demanding one story formula/character type/story resolution.

There appears to be at least one reader for the most obscure fetish.

But that story turns everyone else off.

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by oggbashan

There appears to be at least one reader for the most obscure fetish.

But that story turns everyone else off.

I'm finding that's not true. My anthology on the extreme GM fetish of sounding launched on the 23rd and was the #2 anthology best-seller at Allromanceebooks.com already on the 24th. I haven't found any obscure fetish that didn't have a boatload of eager readers/buyers.

Unfortunately, I can't stomach writing some of the obscure fetishes.

[NoJo]

Interesting thread. I think the main take-home point here is that damppanties is hot.

[damppanties]

Originally Posted by NoJo

Interesting thread. I think the main take-home point here is that damppanties is hot.

You mean likeable.

[steve44uk]

Originally Posted by damppanties

You mean likeable.

Ah, but did you ever buy those DMs...?

[damppanties]

Originally Posted by steve44uk

Ah, but did you ever buy those DMs...?

Sadly, no.

[steve44uk]

Originally Posted by damppanties

Sadly, no.

Fer shame. Sure I can't tempt you...?