Politically correct racial terms

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Never heard a black man call pussy POONTANG. Crackers say POONTANG. Black men I know call pussy, PUSSY.

[lovecraft68]

Originally Posted by Safe_Bet

I bet you STILL wear a lot of "Adidas" and say things like "Yo, dog!", huh?


BTW, you might want to buy your buddy JaxRhapsody a spell checker for xmas. Just say'in.

Nah, I'm in my forties "Yo. dog" isn;t that far back.

Try, a fist pump and saying "Solid!"

[sr71plt]

I use black (although I also throw in identifications by skin tone) and Hispanic and Indian (but I'm referring to the South Asian Indian). I rarely use Asian, because having lived there, I'm sensitive to how different they are, although I'll throw in Asian occasionally for variety. I usually use their nationality--as I do for Europeans. For Africans, I mix their nationality with black. White Americans I usually distinguish by hair color or age or size.

And I don't feel bothered by what I use.

[lovecraft68]

Originally Posted by sr71plt

I use black (although I also throw in identifications by skin tone) and Hispanic and Indian (but I'm referring to the South Asian Indian). I rarely use Asian, because having lived there, I'm sensitive to how different they are, although I'll throw in Asian occasionally for variety. I usually use their nationality--as I do for Europeans. For Africans, I mix their nationality with black. White Americans I usually distinguish by hair color or age or size.

And I don't feel bothered by what I use.

You shouldn't be, to my knowledge freedom of speech is still in effect and no one is being forced to read your work or any other they might be offended by.

[Stella_Omega]

OP: You'll notice that only one actually black person had an answer for you, namely Chocolate Cookie.

Who said something interesting; "I always think the reader is going to assume the character is white until I say otherwise." And its true. In our culture, the default skin tone in people's imagination is white. Unless we make it very clear-- usually because them being black is the point of the story-- black folk are kind of invisible in common storytelling.

From what I've learned over the years here's my suggestions on portraying race;
Using the term Black is okay. Describe your character's dark bronze skin, his height (because he's a basketball player) his hair. Avoid comparing him to chocolate or coffee, he's not ... except of course when his girlfriend is licking him all over
My black friends are more sensitive about their hair these days, it seems than anything, and I don't use words like "kinky" or "nappy."

Another way to portray his race is through dialogue. It doesn't hurt to give him lines that once in a while include one or two speech patterns we consider 'typically black' but one or two is enough, and don't write them out phonetically-- so distracting for the reader! You can have your guy call himself 'black' and even 'nigger' in dialogue. Not the narrator, though, not you as the author.

[lovecraft68]

Originally Posted by Stella_Omega

OP: You'll notice that only one actually black person had an answer for you, namely Chocolate Cookie.

Who said something interesting; "I always think the reader is going to assume the character is white until I say otherwise." And its true. In our culture, the default skin tone in people's imagination is white. Unless we make it very clear-- usually because them being black is the point of the story-- black folk are kind of invisible in common storytelling.

From what I've learned over the years here's my suggestions on portraying race;
Using the term Black is okay. Describe your character's dark bronze skin, his height (because he's a basketball player) his hair. Avoid comparing him to chocolate or coffee, he's not ... except of course when his girlfriend is licking him all over
My black friends are more sensitive about their hair these days, it seems than anything, and I don't use words like "kinky" or "nappy."

Another way to portray his race is through dialogue. It doesn't hurt to give him lines that once in a while include one or two speech patterns we consider 'typically black' but one or two is enough, and don't write them out phonetically-- so distracting for the reader! You can have your guy call himself 'black' and even 'nigger' in dialogue. Not the narrator, though, not you as the author.

That's an excellent point. Nigger in dialogue (or thought) can be pawned off as how a character would refer to himself or another. That word in narrative shows ignorance on behalf of the writer. To me that would look racist

[Safe_Bet]

Originally Posted by Stella_Omega

OP: You'll notice that only one actually black person had an answer for you, namely Chocolate Cookie.

Who said something interesting; "I always think the reader is going to assume the character is white until I say otherwise." And its true. In our culture, the default skin tone in people's imagination is white. Unless we make it very clear-- usually because them being black is the point of the story-- black folk are kind of invisible in common storytelling.

From what I've learned over the years here's my suggestions on portraying race;
Using the term Black is okay. Describe your character's dark bronze skin, his height (because he's a basketball player) his hair. Avoid comparing him to chocolate or coffee, he's not ... except of course when his girlfriend is licking him all over
My black friends are more sensitive about their hair these days, it seems than anything, and I don't use words like "kinky" or "nappy."

Another way to portray his race is through dialogue. It doesn't hurt to give him lines that once in a while include one or two speech patterns we consider 'typically black' but one or two is enough, and don't write them out phonetically-- so distracting for the reader! You can have your guy call himself 'black' and even 'nigger' in dialogue. Not the narrator, though, not you as the author.

::Nods:: in complete agreement.

Especially with THIS part:

Originally Posted by Stella_Omega

Avoid comparing him to chocolate or coffee, he's not ...

and, if I might add, calling a Black/Brown/etc. woman "brown sugar" should be grounds for castration, IMO.

[lovecraft68]

Originally Posted by Safe_Bet

::Nods:: in complete agreement.

Especially with THIS part:



and, if I might add, calling a Black/Brown/etc. woman "brown sugar" should be grounds for castration, IMO.

Oh, shit there goes Mick jagger!

But I also think any black man who still says "Once you go black, you never go back" needs castration as well.

[MichaelWest]

I started drafting a story set in the 1950s, so I looked to the vernacular of that era. Terms like “Negro” and “Colored” (for Black people) were acceptable or “Politically Correct” in their day, racial epithets were freely used and spoken. For example, watch the original MASH movie depicting the Korean War era for how this language can be used to reveal the era. In addition, each ethnicity, Italian, Polish, etc. had all manner of acceptable to derogatory terminology spoken about them, yet for a modern reader using this in dialogue may seem trite or offensive, but to fail to use it is perhaps disingenuous. Whatever language you use, I think as long as you are true to the era and characters without simply adding these terms for shock value, the reader will understand and learn about the characters through how the language reveals ignorance, pride, perception or feeling.

[Stella_Omega]

Originally Posted by lovecraft68

[/b]


That's an excellent point. Nigger in dialogue (or thought) can be pawned off as how a character would refer to himself or another. That word in narrative shows ignorance on behalf of the writer. To me that would look racist

That's right, LP. Although "Pawning off" isn't actually what we are trying to do here.

If I were going to write about you, your own words would be a pretty accurate portrait of how you think about yourself and the world around you.

[Stella_Omega]

Originally Posted by MichaelWest

I started drafting a story set in the 1950s, so I looked to the vernacular of that era. Terms like “Negro” and “Colored” (for Black people) were acceptable or “Politically Correct” in their day, racial epithets were freely used and spoken. For example, watch the original MASH movie depicting the Korean War era for how this language can be used to reveal the era. In addition, each ethnicity, Italian, Polish, etc. had all manner of acceptable to derogatory terminology spoken about them, yet for a modern reader using this in dialogue may seem trite or offensive, but to fail to use it is perhaps disingenuous. Whatever language you use, I think as long as you are true to the era and characters without simply adding these terms for shock value, the reader will understand and learn about the characters through how the language reveals ignorance, pride, perception or feeling.

Umm... You can give it a shot. I wouldn't use those terms as the author, in third-person general, though. Because then I, the author, sound like I, the author, haven't advanced since the 1950's and of course I have. I wouldn't tell a story the same way I would have then. (If I had been old enough for more than baby babble at the time, of course )

If you are writing in a narrative voice-- if the person telling the story is right there-- then you might be able to get a sympathetic readership.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Originally Posted by MichaelWest

I started drafting a story set in the 1950s, so I looked to the vernacular of that era. Terms like “Negro” and “Colored” (for Black people) were acceptable or “Politically Correct” in their day, racial epithets were freely used and spoken. For example, watch the original MASH movie depicting the Korean War era for how this language can be used to reveal the era. In addition, each ethnicity, Italian, Polish, etc. had all manner of acceptable to derogatory terminology spoken about them, yet for a modern reader using this in dialogue may seem trite or offensive, but to fail to use it is perhaps disingenuous. Whatever language you use, I think as long as you are true to the era and characters without simply adding these terms for shock value, the reader will understand and learn about the characters through how the language reveals ignorance, pride, perception or feeling.

Around 1998 I operated a genealogy site for blacks. I posted historical records, mostly from the 19th Century periodicals but a few official records. NEGRO and COLORED were common, so were MULATTO and QUADROON. All are used in official records such as state and federal census rolls.

Not once did I get a complaint from a black patron, yet whites were outraged, and liberal organizations like teachers unions were the worst. The teachers demanded that I expunge NEGRO and COLORED etc from the records.

If you want Black Americana like lawn jockies and aunt Jemima stuff yuh gotta go to the Bahamas and buy it from a black operated souvenir store. American Whites are fuggin crazzee.

When my school had its diamond jubilee and solicited stuff about the school I offered to donate my photos of the 1960 Minstrel Show the school produced. I thought the principal was gonna shit and die. She had no idea her school produced minstrel shows for 20 something years.

[Handley_Page]

Perhaps I am fortunate, but I'm English, old, stupid and generally ignorant, but I truly do not like the idea of PC speech.

"African American"? As Lovecraft put it many of those, whose antecedents are from Africa, have been in the USA for a very long time.
Skin colour ? well, now, I suspect that depends upon which part of Africa we're talking about, surely. From Timbuktu top Cape Town, there are lots of shades.
So what's wrong with saying them ?

Then there's the "class" of American.
Irish (settle for 6 generations?):
Italian ? say, 4 generations?
Jewish? 5 or 6 generations.

What's wrong with simply being "Americans" ? Of course, it's even more confusing when we hear about voting patterns etc., at which point I switch off.

I really ponder about the term "Aborigine" (first known, primitive, indigenous, existing in the land before the arrival of the European.). I grew up with the Redskin, the Red Man and so on.

Just a thought or two, you know ?
Do I need my tin hat now?

[sr71plt]

I don't feel constrained in referring to my white characters as being various shades of tanned or with alabaster skin or hirsute, and I don't feel constrained in referring to my black characters as being milk chocolate or chocolate and cream or jet black. These are just observable differentiations in skin tone. If that disturbs your sense of political correctness, you're much too anal retentive to be reading my stories (or erotica/porn, actually) anyway. I'll dump this in my "ya gotta wear a condom in every story and say you did" shrug pile.

[Stella_Omega]

Perhaps I am fortunate, but I'm English, old, stupid and generally ignorant, but I truly do not like the idea of PC speech.

That's because, as an Englishman of the Old School, you would NEVER consider using speech to un-include or disenfranchise or de-humanise other people-- bad form, donchaknow. The wogs know you mean well, of course they do.



Meanwhile our White American boys are going out of their way to demonstrate their GOD DAMN RIGHT to talk racist in the most obnoxious way possible.

[lovecraft68]

Originally Posted by JAMESBJOHNSON

Never heard a black man call pussy POONTANG. Crackers say POONTANG. Black men I know call pussy, PUSSY.

Well up here its the blacks that speak of Poontang, what the yo-yo's in Florida say I have no idea, but no crackers up my way use it.

[oggbashan]

I would need my tin hat if I went back to my first school and produced the photo of me on Commonwealth Day (although the older teachers still called it Empire Day). There were no children who weren't white European and British.

I was in blackface make-up with a silver tinsel bow tie, a woolly wig, and I sang a "Coon" song from before 1914. Others were dressed as Arabs with the obligatory tea towel, Indians in Gandhi loincloths or makeshift sarees, Egyptians with cardboard Fezzes etc.

That school now has a wide variety of ethnic groupings with a large minority pupils of African or Afro-Caribbean descent.

They would either laugh, or be appalled at the idea that such a portrayal had been possible at their school.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Todays PC mob is yesterdays lynch mob and WCTU and Puritans and Methodist mobs who chased the Mormons out of the Mid West. The cause changes but not the people in the mob.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Originally Posted by oggbashan

I would need my tin hat if I went back to my first school and produced the photo of me on Commonwealth Day (although the older teachers still called it Empire Day). There were no children who weren't white European and British.

I was in blackface make-up with a silver tinsel bow tie, a woolly wig, and I sang a "Coon" song from before 1914. Others were dressed as Arabs with the obligatory tea towel, Indians in Gandhi loincloths or makeshift sarees, Egyptians with cardboard Fezzes etc.

That school now has a wide variety of ethnic groupings with a large minority pupils of African or Afro-Caribbean descent.

They would either laugh, or be appalled at the idea that such a portrayal had been possible at their school.

Dont get STELLA started on Coon Songs. Or Ethel Merman and her Pickaninny Heaven song.

[lovecraft68]

Originally Posted by Stella_Omega

That's right, LP. Although "Pawning off" isn't actually what we are trying to do here.

If I were going to write about you, your own words would be a pretty accurate portrait of how you think about yourself and the world around you.

And I would be fine with that. Those who need to hide behind airs and tip toe around everything ever discussed for fear of offending a portion of the population demonstrate a need to seek out the approval of others that I simply do not have.

As I said in a prior post which will be ignored because nothing in it can be turned around on me. My friends are never described by me by their color, gender, or sexual preference. All people are the same to me. There's good ones and there are assholes and that is based on the personality not on any of the other aforementioned things.

Pure and simple its sticks and stones, someone says something you don;t like or find offensive, don't listen.

But no, the answer now is to run a crusade until those words can never again be spoken by anyone because you're offended.

I think the PC crowd will be very happy with what this country will be like in three or four more years, when saying the word "God" might get you thrown in the clink.

Won't they all be sorry though when all their bleeding heart BS blows up in their face?

[sr71plt]

Meanwhile our White American boys are going out of their way to demonstrate their GOD DAMN RIGHT to talk racist in the most obnoxious way possible.

We all stereotype and establish what other people are for them and then wrap ourselves in the flag of self-righteousness, don't we, Stella?

[oggbashan]

Originally Posted by Stella_Omega

That's because, as an Englishman of the Old School, you would NEVER consider using speech to un-include or disenfranchise or de-humanise other people-- bad form, donchaknow. The wogs know you mean well, of course they do.



...

According to my dictionary of Historical Slang the word wog is from late 19th and early 20th Centuries and is defined as "An Indian; an Arab. probably from golliwog".

A 1914 quote attributed to Winston Churchill (but denied by him) is:

"The wogs begin at Calais."

[Stella_Omega]

Originally Posted by oggbashan

According to my dictionary of Historical Slang the word wog is from late 19th and early 20th Centuries and is defined as "An Indian; an Arab. probably from golliwog".

A 1914 quote attributed to Winston Churchill (but denied by him) is:

"The wogs begin at Calais."

Quite so.

The Japanese equivalent is "Gaijin" which they will tell you means "Foreigner" but actually comes from a phrase meaning "subhuman."

Americans say "illegal Immigrant."

[lovecraft68]

Okay, quid pro quo

How many of you "sensitive" sorts here have been kowtowed into saying

"Holiday tree"

so we don;t offend religions who have nothing to do with the damn holiday of Christmas in the first place.

Come on, show of hands!

[oggbashan]

Originally Posted by lovecraft68

Okay, quid pro quo

How many of you "sensitive" sorts here have been kowtowed into saying

"Holiday tree"

so we don;t offend religions who have nothing to do with the damn holiday of Christmas in the first place.

Come on, show of hands!

Our local councillors had an argument when their contractors replaced a storm-damaged "Happy Christmas" light with "Season's Greetings". The next year "Happy Christmas" was back.

Apparently the lighting suppliers had a surplus of cheap "Season's Greetings" because no town wanted them.