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Old 11-22-2014, 03:07 AM   #1
Senna Jawa
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The story and history of poetry on Lit and PF&D

If the project named in the title above can be accomplished or at least seriously advanced (it is after all an open end project) then Literotica and all PF&D would have something to be proud of. And the value of such a project can go beyond Literotica.

Can you make a nice acronym? For the moment let me call it SHoPLit. But try to come up with something nicer.

The STORY part may include hearsay, opinions and so on. But they have to be strictly separated form HISTORY, which should be strictly objective, which would include well defined data, all kind of tables, etc., with completely objective descriptions.

In the case of HISTORY the Literotica software operation should be involved or else it would be very hard, and results would be only fractional. This may be a problem for Literotica but it is also in the interest of Literotica!

In the case of the STORY, there are PF&D posts, there is the poetry Lit archive, and even some stories by some participants, especially by the most active regulars. Some regulars were on PF&D for twelve and more years. They are not getting any younger. Some are already gone forever. Thus the time is pressing.

There should be an editing team for SHoPLit (no, not me, I am only to propose the idea). Certainly Angeline could be in charge, if she would agree. Of the younger participants (age measured in PD&F years) I would like to see greenmountaineer. Perhaps Angeline could involve some participants from the past, who are not active these day.

*******

In the next post I will present two fractional tables of the PF&D participants, starting with the early ones. I am not able to collect the whole information. I hope that Literotica software organization will do this and more.

Last edited by Senna Jawa : 11-22-2014 at 03:40 AM.
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Old 11-22-2014, 03:39 AM   #2
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The early PF&D participants

Every history has to be divided into at least two periods or else it is not history but simply news.

The PF&D history consists just of two periods: pre-WickedEve and post-WickedEve. The earlier one ends with WickedEve, and the later starts with WickedEve. WickedEve is the bridge which connects the two periods at PF&D; she participated in both of them. If this division decision is somewhat arbitrary that's because all such divisions are somewhat arbitrary. This one is as good as possible.

The tables will include nicks (user names) which at least once showed up on PF&D. Then they are included with their date joining the whole LIterotica, not just PF&D--otherwise the task would be too difficult.

In addition to User name and the date of joining Lit I will include all other information just in one additional third field. This should be improved in later versions of this table. Everything should be cross-referenced by links. In particular, without any snooping, when information about the multiple user accounts is openly available then such such accounts should be linked (cross-referenced) one to another.

(I didn't address the multiple accounts yet at this time.)

Here is a partial pre-WickedEve table (please, add what is missing):

* * *

LitPoets' joining date (pre-WickedEve's time)

WickedEve -- 2001/10/20
HomerPindar -- 2001/09/20
REDWAVE -- 2001/08/26
TheDR4KE -- 2001/08/05
KatPurrs -- 2001/07/23
Cordelia -- 2001/04/30
JUDO -- 2001/04/30
Suzi -- 2001/01/22
Rybka -- 2001/01/06 +
RisiaSkye -- 2000/05/01 an active LitPoet, less on PF&D

This table is given in the anti-chronological order. The next one will be in the chronological order.

Personal remark: some of the participants who joined before WE seemed to me like they did it after WE; and some which joined PF&D after WE seemed to me like they did so before WE. The first , about older participants, was perhaps due to the fact that WE was more active. On the other hand WE was wise and modest, while some participants who joined the board after her, acted like they owned the place (but not for long ).

PS. VB has a table related bug; I just went around it. But to do so is tiresome.

Last edited by Senna Jawa : 11-22-2014 at 04:51 AM. Reason: 1 VB-bug fixed. There is another one though.
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Old 11-22-2014, 01:03 PM   #3
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Always with the job for me? Good thing I love you. But I don't understand what you want me to do and why does Eve get to be Jesus?
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Old 11-22-2014, 03:40 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeline View Post
Always with the job for me? Good thing I love you. But I don't understand what you want me to do
First, in addition to greenmountaineer, you may ask bronzeage to join your team. All three of you are wise, cultural, non-confrontation, positive. All three of you are strong and knowledgable poets. You were the (active!) mod on Literotica since the beginning of the moderation institution on PD&F, bronzeage has a lot of mod experience also outside PD&F.

There should be also a real assistance from Literotica technical team to address the software ways to extract the information around Literotica.

Angeline, you should do what should come natural to you, especially with your professional experience in the writing business. You were one of the early PD&F participants, you joined PD&F already on 2002-03-10 (wow!--two months and two days before me ), you won a number of Literotica awards, including strictly poetic awards, in the early years (even before you became good ), you know a lot facts, people and issues first hand.

Thus you may do a bit of your own writing. But first of all you would go over the archive of PD&F, and over the archive of Lit poems, to select material, and to glue it together. All of your team would do it too.

****************

Quote:
<...> and why does Eve get to be Jesus?
Eve? WickedEve? You know, you know better, you know better than me, you're teasing me. I have to stop now. I'll write about Eve and early participants in the next post.

Last edited by Senna Jawa : 11-22-2014 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 11-22-2014, 04:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senna Jawa View Post
First, in addition to greenmountaineer, you may ask bronzeage to join your team. All three of you are wise, cultural, non-confrontation, positive. All three of you are strong and knowledgable poets. You were the (active!) mod on Literotica since the beginning of the moderation institution on PD&F, bronzeage has a lot of mod experience also outside PD&F.

There should be also a real assistance from Literotica technical team to address the software ways to extract the information around Literotica.

Angeline, you should do what should come natural to you, especially with your professional experience in the writing business. You were one of the early PD&F participants, you joined PD&F already on 2002-03-10 (wow!--two months and two days before me ), you won a number of Literotica awards, including strictly poetic awards, in the early years (even before you became good ), you know a lot facts, people and issues first hand.

Thus you may do a bit of your own writing. But first of all you would go over the archive of PD&F, and over the archive of Lit poems, to select material, and to glue it together. All of your team would do it too.

****************



Eve? WickedEve? You know, you know better, you know better than me, you're teasing me. I have to stop now. I'll write about Eve and early participants in the next post.
Do you want me to add links to the poets you mention? Anyone here can do that. Remember the archival review thread? That was similar to what you propose albeit without the historical perspective. I would certainly be willing to recommend poems that I like, as I am sure others could.

There are some problems. Some people have removed poems from Lit. Others have written under a variety of names, some of which date earlier than others. So it is hard to get a really accurate timeline imo.

As far as technical changes you know I have about as much pull to effect that as you do!

And yes I was teasing about Eve. I just found it funny. BWE, AWE...or should it be BCWE and ACWE? (I only wish Eve would come back and see this. She'd love it!)

Another early poet to consider:

SA Storm

And I believe smithpeter joined in 2001.
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Old 11-22-2014, 04:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeline View Post
Do you want me to add links to the poets you mention? Anyone here can do that.
I wanted to do it, I was kinda planning to do it, but--sadly--I have only little energy left. I can do it for the BEW time. But I already have 71 AWE participants (including WE), and it's just a drop in the bucket. Perhaps I'll create an early medieval period to get a list of manageable size before getting to the bulk of it.
Quote:
Remember the archival review thread? That was similar to what you propose albeit without the historical perspective.
Angeline, can you say a bit more about it? Let me mention that the spinning threads were a part of the story.
[QUOTE} I would certainly be willing to recommend poems that I like, as I am sure others could.[/quote]Democratic, chaotic collections can provide only some raw material but are not good for actually including them in the hi/story. There have to be guiding principles. One thread--perhaps the easiest one--can be chronological, to show how the board was progressing (or sometimes regressing). Another thread would classify poems artistically lub just along topics (say music or seasons or ...).
Quote:
There are some problems. Some people have removed poems from Lit.
This unfortunately is one of the substories. I wish we would talk, and I would stop some of them from castrating Literotica.
Quote:
Others have written under a variety of names, some of which date earlier than others. So it is hard to get a really accurate timeline imo.
Life! (is not easy).
Quote:
As far as technical changes you know I have about as much pull to effect that as you do!
I have zero. Could bronzeage (bronzeage, wake up! ) influence the Literotica management? It's truly in Literotica interest for many reasons. As a byproduct of the hi/story project the software operation of Literotica can improve; and more Literotica information for everybody would be available, and easier, which again should be to the advantage of Literotica.

************

Quote:
And yes I was teasing about Eve. I just found it funny. BWE, AWE...or should it be BCWE and ACWE? (I only wish Eve would come back and see this. She'd love it!)
What would "C" in BCWE and ACWE would stand for? Simple BWE and AWE is good enought to me.

Quote:
Another early poet to consider:

SA Storm

And I believe smithpeter joined in 2001.
I had them already. Both of them joined soon AFTER WickedEve:
  • WickedEve -- 2001/10/20
  • SA Storm-- 2001/10/22 130 PF&D posts
  • smithpeter -- 2001/11/19 +

Yes, I guess, we need the early medieval list. At this time I have exactly 10 participants between WickedEve and you (Angeline), excluding the two of you (twelve if we did include the two of you; or, in other words, you are 11 places after Eve ).
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Old 11-22-2014, 07:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senna Jawa View Post

The STORY part may include hearsay, opinions and so on. But they have to be strictly separated form HISTORY, which should be strictly objective, which would include well defined data, all kind of tables, etc., with completely objective descriptions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senna Jawa View Post

The PF&D history consists just of two periods: pre-WickedEve and post-WickedEve. The earlier one ends with WickedEve, and the later starts with WickedEve. WickedEve is the bridge which connects the two periods at PF&D; she participated in both of them. If this division decision is somewhat arbitrary that's because all such divisions are somewhat arbitrary. This one is as good as possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeline View Post
Always with the job for me? Good thing I love you. But I don't understand what you want me to do and why does Eve get to be Jesus?
I thought that to qualify for Jesus you must have 12 disciples. (Let alone the prophets before you).
Who were WE's disciples?
Or is this a tricky research matter?
Or maybe Jesus was as arbitrary as WE (if I think seriously about it).
I don't know, I just like reading history (and stories sometimes).
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Old 11-22-2014, 11:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senna Jawa View Post
I wanted to do it, I was kinda planning to do it, but--sadly--I have only little energy left. I can do it for the BEW time. But I already have 71 AWE participants (including WE), and it's just a drop in the bucket. Perhaps I'll create an early medieval period to get a list of manageable size before getting to the bulk of it.
Angeline, can you say a bit more about it? Let me mention that the spinning threads were a part of the story.
[QUOTE} I would certainly be willing to recommend poems that I like, as I am sure others could.
Democratic, chaotic collections can provide only some raw material but are not good for actually including them in the hi/story. There have to be guiding principles. One thread--perhaps the easiest one--can be chronological, to show how the board was progressing (or sometimes regressing). Another thread would classify poems artistically lub just along topics (say music or seasons or ...).
This unfortunately is one of the substories. I wish we would talk, and I would stop some of them from castrating Literotica.

Life! (is not easy).
I have zero. Could bronzeage (bronzeage, wake up! ) influence the Literotica management? It's truly in Literotica interest for many reasons. As a byproduct of the hi/story project the software operation of Literotica can improve; and more Literotica information for everybody would be available, and easier, which again should be to the advantage of Literotica.

************


What would "C" in BCWE and ACWE would stand for? Simple BWE and AWE is good enought to me.



I had them already. Both of them joined soon AFTER WickedEve:
  • WickedEve -- 2001/10/20
  • SA Storm-- 2001/10/22 130 PF&D posts
  • smithpeter -- 2001/11/19 +

Yes, I guess, we need the early medieval list. At this time I have exactly 10 participants between WickedEve and you (Angeline), excluding the two of you (twelve if we did include the two of you; or, in other words, you are 11 places after Eve ).[/quote]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Here's a link to the old archival review thread.

The "C" was for common--before/after the common WE era. But it really doesn't work because "common" is an adjective I'd never apply to Eve!
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Old 11-23-2014, 12:10 AM   #9
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Back to this: what is the point? Is it just so that you can degrade or appoint people on the basis of specialness aaccording to you? Or is there some other, ANY other reason for doing this?
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Old 11-23-2014, 12:17 AM   #10
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Stop some of them (some notable, active participants) from castrating literotica? And that's not supposed to sound acutely paranoid? Are you that afraid, Senna/12? And what on earth are you that afraid of? YOU're literotica and so precious that you cannot endure other people writing well???
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Old 11-23-2014, 02:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playcatch View Post
Stop some of them (some notable, active participants) from castrating literotica? And that's not supposed to sound acutely paranoid? Are you that afraid, Senna/12? And what on earth are you that afraid of? YOU're literotica and so precious that you cannot endure other people writing well???
This is what I'm looking forward to. It has the beginning of a story and could be developed further, maybe become history, I don't know.
Are you BWE or AWE, playcatch? I get confused with dates.

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Senna/12?
That throws me a bit. On one hand 12 has not been in this thread so far. On the other, is "Senna" an alias for "12" (and vice versa)? It could be taken as such in which case, is this thread going to include science fiction also?
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Old 11-23-2014, 03:00 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by pelegrino View Post
I thought that to qualify for Jesus you must have 12 disciples. (Let alone the prophets before you).
Who were WE's disciples?
Or is this a tricky research matter?
Or maybe Jesus was as arbitrary as WE (if I think seriously about it).
I don't know, I just like reading history (and stories sometimes).
Word disciple associates in some languages with something like a deerskin flogger (that's how you execute discipline). But there is progress. If you look into WickedEve's drawer, you will not find there any deerskin floggers but twelve dildos, which qualifies WickedEve for Literotica Jesus--t's only a part of her qualifications.
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Old 11-23-2014, 03:07 AM   #13
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The "C" was for common--before/after the common WE era. But it really doesn't work because "common" is an adjective I'd never apply to Eve!
Good! Let's forget C in the context of PF&D. It's just BWE and AWE, that's it.
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Old 11-23-2014, 03:24 AM   #14
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Here's a link to the old archival review thread
LeBroz! Where is he? His threaaaaaaaad shuld certainly be mentioned, so much good work! It should help a lot!
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Old 11-23-2014, 03:33 AM   #15
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We should collect threads (links) like the LeBroz loooong thread of selected poems, and the popular threads which survived for years like the karmadog 's humorous thread which made fun of the poems' titles, etc. Then there were certain initiatives. I liked the idea of posting poems by different authors at the same time with the same title. Two times out of three I would respond, I would each time the title was interesting to me. These were the rare occasions when PD&F stimulated my writing rather than stifling it.
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Old 11-23-2014, 03:58 AM   #16
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Restoration???

Angeline, I wonder if it would be possible that the authors of the poems removed from Literotica would bring them back to Literotica. Would you consider talking to some of them? After all, this was part of their story, some part of their life.

Some poets at some time wanted to enter the--so-to-speak--real recognized artistic places. To me it was never any attraction. And these authors could try to achieve their goal without the drastic operation of castrating the Literotica archive and perhaps many PD&F posts (some were removed for other reasons like perhaps hostile polemics).

These authors could bring their poems back to archive, with or without a note about its Lit story (I would even help to edit one such poem or two ).
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Old 11-23-2014, 07:33 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playcatch View Post
Back to this: what is the point? Is it just so that you can degrade or appoint people on the basis of specialness aaccording to you? Or is there some other, ANY other reason for doing this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by playcatch View Post
Stop some of them (some notable, active participants) from castrating literotica? And that's not supposed to sound acutely paranoid? Are you that afraid, Senna/12? And what on earth are you that afraid of? YOU're literotica and so precious that you cannot endure other people writing well???
This is the second time you've accused twelveoone of being Senna Jawa.

Do you have any "evidence" to back up this claim?
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Old 11-23-2014, 07:46 AM   #18
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I don't know, I just like reading history (and stories sometimes).
This thread reads like a really bad inside joke.
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:30 AM   #19
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senna is NOT 12
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:37 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playcatch View Post
Stop some of them (some notable, active participants) from castrating literotica? And that's not supposed to sound acutely paranoid? Are you that afraid, Senna/12? And what on earth are you that afraid of? YOU're literotica and so precious that you cannot endure other people writing well???
the greatest difference between 12 and senna is that 12 actively encourages and works towards the improvement of others AND himself, whereas senna derides most, encouraging only the few he regards as supportive of his self-erected platform of superiority.

they are 2 entirely different people, not alternate screen presences used by the same person. to suggest otherwise is very misleading.
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Old 11-23-2014, 03:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senna Jawa View Post
Word disciple associates in some languages with something like a deerskin flogger (that's how you execute discipline). But there is progress. If you look into WickedEve's drawer, you will not find there any deerskin floggers but twelve dildos, which qualifies WickedEve for Literotica Jesus--t's only a part of her qualifications.
Dildos!!!!!!!!!!!! (12), but that's how I feel about Jesus' disciples too.
Common Era sounds better to me, otherwise we can make our chronology charts by establishing year 0 as whatever year holds the most important historical significance to someone. In that sense I donít think that Jesus' birthday is of any importance for civilization (I only accept rather unwillingly the "common era" term) and in the same sense I donít think that WE's contribution is of any greater significant importance than anybody else's to Literotica's evolving history.
So, why have a division at all? Just do it in a strait historical line with logical chapters (medieval, post modern, whatever) and good luck with it.

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Originally Posted by Magnetron View Post
This is the second time you've accused twelveoone of being Senna Jawa.
I think this merits your reply, Seena.

Quote:
Originally Posted by butters View Post
the greatest difference between 12 and senna is that 12 actively encourages and works towards the improvement of others AND himself, whereas senna derides most, encouraging only the few he regards as supportive of his self-erected platform of superiority.
I agree to that, but not by any coherent thoughtÖ it's just a feeling (sorry, Seena).

RE-QUOTE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnetron View Post
This is the second time you've accused twelveoone of being Senna Jawa.

Do you have any "evidence" to back up this claim?
Quote:
Originally Posted by butters View Post
senna is NOT 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by butters View Post
the greatest difference between 12 and senna is that 12 actively encourages and works towards the improvement of others AND himself, whereas senna derides most, encouraging only the few he regards as supportive of his self-erected platform of superiority.

they are 2 entirely different people, not alternate screen presences used by the same person. to suggest otherwise is very misleading.
There you are, playcatch. Evidence can make it history (different from science fiction in content and readability).

Taking this opportunity, I wish to make a formal request to Literotica to do away with all aliases. I donít see why people need them within the same forum, but they seem to me either purposeless or of shady purposes. Otherwise, how can I trust anyone of you and why should I?
I mean, I can trust a lot of you based on good faith, but is my good faith enough?
Think of it in the light of this discussion, please.

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Originally Posted by Magnetron View Post
This thread reads like a really bad inside joke.
Whatever the case may be, so far it is entertaining, plus quite "educational".
Let's wait a bit.

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Old 11-23-2014, 03:44 PM   #22
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I've had three other names since I came here. Almost all my posts are under this name. However when I was in a years long divorce battle I wrote erotica under other names. He would have tried to use it against me at the time if he could. I'm sure I'm not alone in that kind of situation. I'm not in it now, thank heavens.

Dora, Senna and 12 really are two different people. They just are. They're both reallllllly opinionated but they are not the same person!

Senna, I don't talk to the majority of people from Lit who no longer post here. I would not even know how to get in touch with them. And there are others who simply do not want to be here anymore. Some have removed poems, others not.

This thread seems like the vanity/cache threads many of us have. And some have a bunch! The only difference is that this one would have many poets in it that people here like to read. And if you don't like the OP, don't participate or use ignore if you want.

Your friendly spamitor,
Ange
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:13 PM   #23
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A timeline of member registrations, total submissions per year each member has contributed and links to their submission pages would be interesting. Including who became a Mod and when. And an obituary of those who have passed on. Perhaps even special occasions like when Harry and Butters tie the knot.

Above and beyond that, not so much.
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Old 11-23-2014, 10:59 PM   #24
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Quote:
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I've had three other names since I came here. Almost all my posts are under this name. However when I was in a years long divorce battle I wrote erotica under other names. He would have tried to use it against me at the time if he could. I'm sure I'm not alone in that kind of situation. I'm not in it now, thank heavens.

Dora, Senna and 12 really are two different people. They just are. They're both reallllllly opinionated but they are not the same person!

Senna, I don't talk to the majority of people from Lit who no longer post here. I would not even know how to get in touch with them. And there are others who simply do not want to be here anymore. Some have removed poems, others not.

This thread seems like the vanity/cache threads many of us have. And some have a bunch! The only difference is that this one would have many poets in it that people here like to read. And if you don't like the OP, don't participate or use ignore if you want.

Your friendly spamitor,
Ange
Fair enough. I just cannot tell them apart from their tone when they are speaking of or to me. It's kinda like all the grownups in an episode of a Charlie Brown animation. Probably just my ear, then. No offense intended. I thought they were the same really old, extremely hostile guy.
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Old 11-23-2014, 11:12 PM   #25
bronzeage
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I'll be happy to help in anyway, but my influence is quite limited. Beyond that, I still don't understand what this project actually is.

Could it be reduced to a thesis statement?
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