Old 03-02-2013, 09:18 AM   #1
twelveoone
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Neo's Waiting for the Thaw

my reaction, remember, I am a reader, modified reader reaction, which I talked about in a thread I can no longer access.
First up two definitions, remember, neo has to set something up, i.e. a poem that will get me to the end before the gag reaction sets in, preferably something I will even think about after I read it once. And for the benefit of one possible reader, Neo is not my girlfriend, nor I his. As a matter of fact, in the next post I mention I'm jealous of him, he's competition. But first:

Definition of MANIPULATE
1
: to treat or operate with or as if with the hands or by mechanical means especially in a skillful manner
2
a : to manage or utilize skillfully
b : to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage
3
: to change by artful or unfair means so as to serve one's purpose : doctor


engage

1
: to offer (as one's word) as security for a debt or cause
2
a obsolete : to entangle or entrap in or as if in a snare or bog
b : to attract and hold by influence or power
c : to interlock with : mesh; also : to cause (mechanical parts) to mesh <engage the clutch>
3
: to bind (as oneself) to do something; especially : to bind by a pledge to marry
4
a : to provide occupation for : involve <engage him in a new project>
b : to arrange to obtain the use or services of : hire <engage a lawyer>
5
a : to hold the attention of : engross <her work engages her completely>
b : to induce to participate <engaged the shy boy in conversation>
6
a : to enter into contest or battle with <engage the enemy>
b : to bring together or interlock (weapons)
7
: to deal with especially at length

and that is a part of what writing is.
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:23 AM   #2
twelveoone
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Suppose...

I was to read this as a straight line constrict...
white was out, that black was in. fashion cliche
blue skies.cliche
Two in a row, but how bad are they?

from winter into bare limbs; something happened here, it looks like a simple inversion of a cliche. He doesn't use the word "bare", he uses the word "naked", nice... but as always, there maybe something more.


Waiting for the Thaw
byNeonurotic©

The trees wear snow evening
gloves, but no one told them,
white was out, that black was in.
Instead, their leaf buds
freeze while the sun is too
slow peeling back clouds,
revealing blue skies.

I wait with a frosty breath, wait
for the thaw to strip them down
to nothing but naked limbs.

I don't often read that way, I scan the edges, look for repeats, contrasts, sometimes simplify the blocks to one image, and the juxtaposition between the blocks.

Now what do I know about Neo.? Not much. Except the fact that when I got to Lit. I fell in love with two women poets; annaswirls and WickedEve; they liked him. Neither are linear poets, anna often used juxtaposition and Eve's straight lines always "snaked". Sure as hell, there is a snake in Neo's poem.

The first stanza, I see winter, a strong contrast: white/black, something about fashion, gloves. It looks muddy. Muddy is the wrong word, I see something screened. One rhyme.
In short, the stanza has something to do with "winter" and something else.
The second stanza, "bare limbs", so it looks like nice simple inversion of a cliche, but he also subverts and buries half of it, "bare" isn't there. The language seems a little charged. The tail end of the snake.

Peeling, revealing...I wait...to strip them down to nothing but naked limbs. But, first the gloves come off.
Waiting for the Thaw, aren't we all buddy. Eve always liked you better, and I'm jealous.

Now suppose, I just made all of this up, you can see what really isn't there. I got something for nothing, and he did manage to get to the end before I did, and I cheated. Neat trick.
More likely, Neo wasn't fully conscious of his writing, he would have brought more of the poem in line, steamy breath instead of frosty perhaps. Eve talked about her "poetry trances", Yeats tried automatic writing.

There was another image I had, that of being in a dark room waiting for a picture to develop (the old way for photographs) I understand why I got it and how I used it. I mention it because it is also a metaphor; I think you learned from Eve and are beginning to get into her league, that makes me happy, as she was one of the most deceptive and underrated poets here.
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:33 AM   #3
twelveoone
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Neo, if what I said in the last paragraph has any truth, this is what is great about this place.
If you are here, even for a week, you should at least see that five people are doing some one thing better than you.
I've been here close to ten, I'm arrogant as hell, and off the top of my head I could rattle off 50 names. I don't know how many are alts. Modesty on my part? At what I do, I am very good. Just reality.
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Old 03-02-2013, 04:07 PM   #4
bflagsst
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the line breaks are weak, there is needless enjambment. "That" is misplaced or unnecessary. "Instead" is awkward. "Blue skies" is lazy. The structure of the whole thing is off.
----------------
The trees wear snow evening
gloves, but no one told them,
white was out, that black was in.
Instead, their leaf buds
freeze while the sun is too
slow peeling back clouds,
revealing blue skies.

I wait with a frosty breath, wait
for the thaw to strip them down
to nothing but naked limbs.
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Old 03-02-2013, 04:45 PM   #5
darkmaas
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bflagsst said:
Quote:
"Blue skies" is lazy
1201 said:
Quote:
So, paint us a picture
a sky of cerulean blue
1201 also said:
Quote:
... picture a sky of Prussian blue

Champers taught us:
Quote:
don't say "tropical sky blue"
::


Maybe the last word on SKY should be Ella's


::
__________________
no subtext
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:12 PM   #6
twelveoone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bflagsst View Post
the line breaks are weak, there is needless enjambment. "That" is misplaced or unnecessary. "Instead" is awkward. "Blue skies" is lazy. The structure of the whole thing is off.
----------------
The trees wear snow evening
gloves, but no one told them,
white was out, that black was in.
Instead, their leaf buds
freeze while the sun is too
slow peeling back clouds,
revealing blue skies.

I wait with a frosty breath, wait
for the thaw to strip them down
to nothing but naked limbs.
maybe, but i see an internal structure beginning to develop, in which case the structure, would be just about right

Did you come by to save poetry from the likes of me?
Because this is about two images, two structures, which I think Neo should have developed.
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:06 PM   #7
bflagsst
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twelveoone View Post
maybe, but i see an internal structure beginning to develop, in which case the structure, would be just about right

Did you come by to save poetry from the likes of me?
Because this is about two images, two structures, which I think Neo should have developed.
It has the potential to be a passable poem in my holier than thou standards. I came by because you may have questioned whether Neo was lazy or not. I think so. I saw it in New Poems and it wasn't worth a positive or negative comment, a poem to pass over. You pulled it out of the lineup and thought it was worthwhile to analyze; so why not? To read this poem I have to change the breaks, of course it's open for interpretation, but this version is better:


The trees wear snow evening gloves,
but no one told them white was out,
black was in.

(Instead) their leaf buds freeze,
(while) the sun is too slow peeling
back clouds, revealing blue skies.

I wait with frosty breath, wait for the thaw
to strip them down to nothing
but naked limbs.
......
Instead and While are awkward, and the image of sun/peeling/clouds/revealing/skies is wholly unoriginal.

I wrote this poem(and many others) that has some of the same problem as Neo's having. The unoriginal bits that you can't seem to overcome whether due to laziness or lack of skill. Color and image passť, easy rhymes etc.
.............
I've enough praise for the things that never change,
for your poolish opals I've enough phrases
to fill your head with hopes, that we'll grow old
and so very old, and like our eyes, never change

I've enough praise for the things that whither and die,
for your winter garden I've a window sill
to reach the morning-ray, and enough seed
to reclaim your bed in spring

...and over here I have similar issues as above:

On the ground that's hard in winter
I found her,
where no breath blossoms,
her eyes
clear, blue, vacant
her skin
alabastrine, blue-veined
and like a little girl's
her hair in a garland,
-Christlike.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:40 PM   #8
twelveoone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bflagsst View Post
It has the potential to be a passable poem in my holier than thou standards. I came by because you may have questioned whether Neo was lazy or not. I think so.
I think so to, but probably no lazier than most. I pulled it out because I saw a second structure appear and an possible WickedEve influence.
Either way it needs work, "blue skies" is forgivable.
However in the first stanza, I got a glimpse of him looking at well dressed women in winter
The trees wear snow evening gloves,
but no one told them,
white was out, that black was in.

but that would require a shift right about here and some ambiguity, would probably require Winter to be in the first line

so peeling and revealing would be needed
'frozen buds", well, most models are thin

But I also saw the second stanza as the tie between two illusions


I wait with steamy breath, wait for the thaw
to strip them down to naked limbs.

a little mind trick to leave the reader wondering, since I know he was thinking about women anyway. Actually, the subconscious puts these things in, it sometimes helps to listen and integrate the two sides.
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