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Old 01-22-2013, 04:46 PM   #1
JackLuis
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When the Government Makes Mistakes

Senate Approves 6,000-Page CIA Torture Report, Feinstein Cites “Terrible Mistakes”

Quote:
Among the torture techniques and other mistreatment that US military and CIA detainees have been subjected to during the course of the 11-year War on Terror (but not necessarily covered in the Senate report) are: murder, rape of male and female detainees, imprisonment of family members as bargaining chips, beatings, refusal of medical treatment, interrupted drowning (waterboarding), solitary confinement, sensory deprivation, sleep and food deprivation, force-feeding, extremes– sometimes deadly– of heat and cold, exposure to insects, exposure to deafeningly loud music, sexual humiliation, menacing and attacking with dogs, shackling in painful stress positions, ‘walling,’ death and rape threats against detainees and their families, forced standing, ‘Palestinian crucifixion,’ and many others, all of them violations of US and international laws including the federal anti-torture statute, the War Crimes Act and the Geneva Conventions.
Sounds like multiple felonies to me. If this is a example, why do we trust the government with anything? They can't even control themselves. One little thing goes wrong and suddenly our government forgets about our principles and ignores, not only international law, but ours as well.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:25 PM   #2
Sean Renaud
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It's what we thought was necessary to keep us safe.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:37 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Renaud View Post
It's what we thought was necessary to keep us safe.
Isn't national security the usual excuse used when gov's do horrible things?
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:40 PM   #4
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
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Isn't national security the usual excuse used when gov's do horrible things?
The hell made you think I'd. . .whatever. Jerk.

Yeah. It's the usual excuse and I don't condone it but I'm not buying the OP's argument that since the government did A we shouldn't trust them with anything. As for the torture I'm kind of amazed the Republicans didn't filibuster this and Obama didn't quietly let it die like he did his attempted close of GITMO and civilian trials. If we were going to punish anybody we would have done it by now.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
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The hell made you think I'd. . .whatever. Jerk.

Yeah. It's the usual excuse and I don't condone it but I'm not buying the OP's argument that since the government did A we shouldn't trust them with anything. As for the torture I'm kind of amazed the Republicans didn't filibuster this and Obama didn't quietly let it die like he did his attempted close of GITMO and civilian trials. If we were going to punish anybody we would have done it by now.
I think that we should hold government types responsible for their actions, as per our laws and traditions.
Do you think that George Washington would have condoned this sort of activity?
Do you believe in the Preamble? Really believe that All Men, not just white rich citizens should have the protection of the law?
Or should we be able to choose who are worthy?

But 'we have to look forward', other wise half the government would be in jail.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:39 PM   #7
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackLuis View Post
I think that we should hold government types responsible for their actions, as per our laws and traditions.
Do you think that George Washington would have condoned this sort of activity?
Do you believe in the Preamble? Really believe that All Men, not just white rich citizens should have the protection of the law?
Or should we be able to choose who are worthy?

But 'we have to look forward', other wise half the government would be in jail.
Do I think Washington would have condoned this sort of activity? Not that I really care what he would and wouldn't approve of but I'd be shocked if he didn't engage in the same behavior. I doubt there is a single war time president who didn't engage in this sort of behavior.

I have no problem with holding them responsible for their actions. If it was justified the President can always pardon them. It is within his power.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:07 PM   #9
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government makes mistakes because its filled with stupid people
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:18 PM   #10
Sean Renaud
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Shaddap Jen.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Shaddap Jen.
And you to coach
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Renaud View Post
Shaddap Jen.
*shut up
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:31 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Renaud View Post
It's what we thought was necessary to keep us safe.
It's what Bush and Chaney thought they could get away with, and everybody shook in their boots and let then destroy our Treasury and our legal system.

America let two draft dodging cowards revise the Constitution and then reelected them!

Now we have Obama talking about indefinite preventative detention! No hanging Chaney on a tree, no prosecuting Tennant for torture, not even fining W for supreme stupidity.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:50 PM   #14
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It's what Bush and Chenney could and did get away with and Obama really doesn't (or at least didn't) have many options open to him. Look at the hatred he gets right now, now think what would have happened if he'd even played lip service to punishing Bush. Yeah, that would have gotten real ugly real fast.

I'm not down with the indefinite preventative detention and it needs to be stopped. GITMO should be closed but until the states agree to take the remaining prisoners we've got no good options.
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