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Old 01-22-2013, 04:16 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vetteman View Post
"In 1999, 733 children ages 14 and under died, and in 2000, nearly 44,600 children were treated in hospital emergency rooms for pedestrian-related injuries."

All no doubt injured by registered and licensed cars...so when will you start itemizing these events and lobby for an automobile ban? I mean. if it will save one life....
Automobile use is heavily regulated. Are you advocating that gun use also be regulated?
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:28 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by chillywilly2 View Post
I don't think any of the drivers did it on purpose...they call them accidents for a reason....shooters on the other hand, well they really mean it.
I'm not sure there are very many true accidents. Invariably wrecks seem to be because someone is doing something stupid (which includes reckless driving), not paying attention to driving or poor vehicle maintenance.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpiderMan View Post
Automobile use is heavily regulated.
Oh plz...have you driven on the american roadways lately? Any 16 y/o with 25 bucks get's one, that's why being on the road is the most dangers place in america you can be. The gov fails like 3 or 4 times(?) harder at stupid/bad driver control than they do at homicidal maniac with a gun control.

I fear the asshole texting at 60mph, horse assing behind the wheel, racing, drinking etc. than I do people having guns.

Hell even in the rare occurrence I do find myself under fire and unarmed there is the chance I could fight back. 2500-90,000 lbs of idiot operated car/truck rolling at 50+ mph? not a fucking chance in hell.....

ok I'm done now

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Old 01-22-2013, 04:36 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by about_average View Post
I'm not sure there are very many true accidents. Invariably wrecks seem to be because someone is doing something stupid (which includes reckless driving), not paying attention to driving or poor vehicle maintenance.
I have always said, if you are in a crash, 9 times out of 10 you screwed up...even if you can blame the other guy, but you still screwed up, but you still didn't mean to.
9 times out of 10, if you shoot somebody, you meant to.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:36 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by about_average View Post
I'm not sure there are very many true accidents. Invariably wrecks seem to be because someone is doing something stupid (which includes reckless driving), not paying attention to driving or poor vehicle maintenance.
I think there is a rather clear distinction between carelessness or incompetence and intent. The various "reasons" for accidents are not really intentional.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:41 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chillywilly2 View Post
I have always said, if you are in a crash, 9 times out of 10 you screwed up...even if you can blame the other guy, but you still screwed up, but you still didn't mean to.
9 times out of 10, if you shoot somebody, you meant to.
Is a death due to negligence/stupidity any more excusable than one of malice? Sure the punishments might be less....but you still killed someone.

Catastrophic mechanical failure maybe...but even then 99% of the time that leads back to negligence on the owners behalf. Not a bit different than an kid accidentally blows his head off b/c daddy screwed up and left it in the toy chest for Jr. to play with.

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Old 01-22-2013, 04:42 PM   #32
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the purpose of a vehicle is to transport you/cargo from point A to point B with maybe some detours along the way. the fact it might also become a dangerous weapon is secondary.

a gun's purpose is to fire a projectile intended to hit something, all too often something living. you don't accidentally go into a campus, or a church, or a shopping mall and start shooting at people.



so, any further updates on the situation? is the lockdown still in place or has the situation been brought under control and those trapped inside released?
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:44 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by BotanyBoy View Post
Is a death due to negligence/stupidity any more excusable than one of malice?
according to the law, yes - which is why there are manslaughter charges as well as murder
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:44 PM   #34
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Hua? No...it goes a long way toward catching thieves after cars are stolen, it doesn't prevent or reduce GTA for shit. If it did there wouldn't be a multi billion dollar chop shop/black market parts industry and no one would invest hundreds maybe thousands in aftermarket/factory security upgrades to actually keep their shit from being stolen.

Driving a motor vehicle was NEVER guaranteed as a individual and inalienable right under the highest laws of the land either.



It is...but I'm not a conservative nor have I ever proposed this argument, I reply to you and others bringing it up.

My only bitch with the current gun control proposals on the table is the "assault" weapons ban. Even then it's not b/c I'm skurrd the gubbmint is going to come grab up my AR's.....it's because it has repeatedly failed b/c it's a dolled up accessories ban and I expect more from my leaders than tired old bullshit that has failed the people repeatedly.
Saying auto registration does not reduce crime is like saying locks on doors do not reduce burglaries. Imagine how lucrative it would be to own a chop shop if there was no way to tell one car from another. Many years ago, we used to acid etch the VIN on all the glass of a new car. This made it much less attractive to a chop shop, but it would be a wasted effort without a vehicle registration system which shows the legal owner of the vehicle.

As for as individual and inalienable rights under the highest laws of the land. there was a time when a man in my position could have owned another human being and forced such a person to work for me, all his natural life. Times change and sometimes we can't do what we used to do.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:44 PM   #35
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according to the law, yes - which is why there are manslaughter charges as well as murder
I understand that....but the price is still the same.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:46 PM   #36
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I understand that....but the price is still the same.
as in terms of sentence or as in the price paid in a life?
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:57 PM   #37
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Saying auto registration does not reduce crime is like saying locks on doors do not reduce burglaries.
Saying it does is like saying paying your property tax will prevent a home invasion.

Locks are an actual physical barrier to stop theft, so are kill switches and fuel cuts...as well as other preventative security measures. What does registration do to keep a thief from smashing your window and driving off with your shit? Not a mother fuckin' thing.



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Imagine how lucrative it would be to own a chop shop if there was no way to tell one car from another. Many years ago, we used to acid etch the VIN on all the glass of a new car. This made it much less attractive to a chop shop, but it would be a wasted effort without a vehicle registration system which shows the legal owner of the vehicle.
Like I said...it only helps catch the people who took your shit, which is good...but there aren't any gun chop shops and the first thing stolen/illegal guns lose before becoming black market items is their serial numbers. It's like a million times easier to make a gun untraceable and vanish off the radar than a car. A file an maybe 5 min...done and done. Cars? Not so much...

The only time they would ever be useful would be in ID'ing a weapon used in a crime to nail the fucker who committed it....but they use ballistic's for that.

Car registration pays for roads and signs and lights....a gun registration would be 100% pure asshole tax and nothing else.

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As for as individual and inalienable rights under the highest laws of the land. there was a time when a man in my position could have owned another human being and forced such a person to work for me, all his natural life. Times change and sometimes we can't do what we used to do.
So get congress to repeal the 2A and the SCOTUS/POTUS to rubber stamp it...just that simple.

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Old 01-22-2013, 05:07 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BotanyBoy View Post
Saying it does is like saying paying your property tax will prevent a home invasion.

Locks are an actual physical barrier to stop theft, so are kill switches and fuel cuts...as well as other preventative security measures. What does registration do to keep a thief from smashing your window and driving off with your shit? Not a mother fuckin' thing.





Like I said...it only helps catch the people who took your shit, which is good...but there aren't any gun chop shops and the first thing stolen/illegal guns lose before becoming black market items is their serial numbers. It's like a million times easier to make a gun untraceable and vanish off the radar than a car. A file an maybe 5 min...done and done. Cars? Not so much...

The only time they would ever be useful would be in ID'ing a weapon used in a crime to nail the fucker who committed it....but they use ballistic's for that.

Car registration pays for roads and signs and lights....a gun registration would be 100% pure asshole tax and nothing else.



So get congress to repeal the 2A and the SCOTUS/POTUS to rubber stamp it...just that simple.
I'm not a missionary.

If you want to believe the possibility getting caught and going to prison does not deter some people from stealing cars, I have no need to change your mind.

I like your suggestion of an Asshole Tax. After reading the knee jerk conservative posts since the Sandyhook shootings, it's appropriate. It would be an excellent way to pay for the armed guards in all the schools.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:57 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vetteman View Post
"In 1999, 733 children ages 14 and under died, and in 2000, nearly 44,600 children were treated in hospital emergency rooms for pedestrian-related injuries."

All no doubt injured by registered and licensed cars...so when will you start itemizing these events and lobby for an automobile ban? I mean. if it will save one life....
At a point in the thread where none of the facts are known and nobody has mentioned gun control, why did you have to insert this?
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:04 PM   #40
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At a point in the thread where none of the facts are known and nobody has mentioned gun control, why did you have to insert this?
Paranoia.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:11 PM   #41
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I'm not a missionary.

If you want to believe the possibility getting caught and going to prison does not deter some people from stealing cars, I have no need to change your mind.
09 was the latest I dug up with a quick Google, but there is no reason to believe it isn't too far off from this year. According to the FBI

"There were an estimated 794,616 thefts of motor vehicles nationwide in 2009"

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/off...cle_theft.html

I'm willing to be the staggering majority were registered at one DMV or another.

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I like your suggestion of an Asshole Tax. After reading the knee jerk conservative posts since the Sandyhook shootings, it's appropriate. It would be an excellent way to pay for the armed guards in all the schools.
More guns is not the solution...the only thing an armed guard will do is slaughter more children.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:17 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by BotanyBoy View Post
Oh plz...have you driven on the american roadways lately? Any 16 y/o with 25 bucks get's one, that's why being on the road is the most dangers place in america you can be. The gov fails like 3 or 4 times(?) harder at stupid/bad driver control than they do at homicidal maniac with a gun control.

I fear the asshole texting at 60mph, horse assing behind the wheel, racing, drinking etc. than I do people having guns.

Hell even in the rare occurrence I do find myself under fire and unarmed there is the chance I could fight back. 2500-90,000 lbs of idiot operated car/truck rolling at 50+ mph? not a fucking chance in hell.....

ok I'm done now
Haven't you been screaming for months about a licensing procedure for guns?
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:53 PM   #43
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Haven't you been screaming for months about a licensing procedure for guns?
Yup, with with some balls out training requirements.

Not 25 bucks and a pic' we will mail it to you in 10-15 bidnizz days.

If you want to carry, gotta prove you know wtf you are doing. I personally advocate FBI field agent training standards/test in order to be a licensed gun owner/carrier, if not all then ESPECIALLY pistol/concealed carry.

I also think annual driving testing/class's wouldn't be a horrid idea....not some 10 question multi choice shit after a 5 hr video either. You go to a track and get grilled by real life instructors on how to drive worth a shit, and then take a GO/NO-GO test.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:56 PM   #44
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rhetorical, right?

he and koalabear, both
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What stupid fuck started this thread. .
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:59 PM   #45
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Yup, with with some balls out training requirements.

Not 25 bucks and a pic' we will mail it to you in 10-15 bidnizz days.

If you want to carry, gotta prove you know wtf you are doing. I personally advocate FBI field agent training standards/test in order to be a licensed gun owner/carrier, if not all then ESPECIALLY pistol/concealed carry.

I also think annual driving testing/class's wouldn't be a horrid idea....not some 10 question multi choice shit after a 5 hr video either. You go to a track and get grilled by real life instructors on how to drive worth a shit, and then take a GO/NO-GO test.
While I don't disagree with this idea in the least if you look at the cases of friendly fire in the actual military when the "Good" guys are clearly marked and in many cases so are the "bad" guys I'm less than convinced that more guns will make public life safer. Especially from the crazies. Take the Senator shooting a few years back. Sure there is a chance that Jared pulls his gun gets a shot off, and civilian A sees him and takes him out. There is also a chance that he gets off a shot and multiple people pull guns and nobody being entirely sure who took the initial shot just start shooting. Again this happens to trained professionals who do this for a living.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:00 PM   #46
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Yup, with with some balls out training requirements.

Not 25 bucks and a pic' we will mail it to you in 10-15 bidnizz days.

If you want to carry, gotta prove you know wtf you are doing. I personally advocate FBI field agent training standards/test in order to be a licensed gun owner/carrier, if not all then ESPECIALLY pistol/concealed carry.

I also think annual driving testing/class's wouldn't be a horrid idea....not some 10 question multi choice shit after a 5 hr video either. You go to a track and get grilled by real life instructors on how to drive worth a shit, and then take a GO/NO-GO test.
I think getting a driver's license is easy, but not that easy. If you really want to make the driving analogy each state could set up their own age and licensing rules. I'm assuming you'd have no problem with that.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:28 PM   #47
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While I don't disagree with this idea in the least if you look at the cases of friendly fire in the actual military when the "Good" guys are clearly marked and in many cases so are the "bad" guys I'm less than convinced that more guns will make public life safer. Especially from the crazies. Take the Senator shooting a few years back. Sure there is a chance that Jared pulls his gun gets a shot off, and civilian A sees him and takes him out. There is also a chance that he gets off a shot and multiple people pull guns and nobody being entirely sure who took the initial shot just start shooting. Again this happens to trained professionals who do this for a living.
It does happen, I'm not saying it couldn't/wouldn't. Even FBI agents fuck up from time to time.

But the difference between a random act of violence/self defense and the confusion one experiences in a full on military combat situation are hardly comparable. It's like the diff between rubbing one out and going to a sex club for a massive orgy.

IDK, I just figured some better training/testing requirements for a 100% licencing program that put all gun owners on the same across the board rule book/system might have a better chance at having an effect and making progress....unlike another assault weapons fail.

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Originally Posted by SgtSpiderMan View Post
I think getting a driver's license is easy, but not that easy. If you really want to make the driving analogy each state could set up their own age and licensing rules. I'm assuming you'd have no problem with that.
We have that now...doesn't work.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:36 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by BotanyBoy View Post
It does happen, I'm not saying it couldn't/wouldn't. Even FBI agents fuck up from time to time.

But the difference between a random act of violence/self defense and the confusion one experiences in a full on military combat situation are hardly comparable. It's like the diff between rubbing one out and going to a sex club for a massive orgy.

IDK, I just figured some better training/testing requirements for a 100% licencing program that put all gun owners on the same across the board rule book/system might have a better chance at having an effect and making progress....unlike another assault weapons fail.



We have that now...doesn't work.
It doesn't work for driving?
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:36 PM   #49
Sean Renaud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BotanyBoy View Post
It does happen, I'm not saying it couldn't/wouldn't. Even FBI agents fuck up from time to time.

But the difference between a random act of violence/self defense and the confusion one experiences in a full on military combat situation are hardly comparable. It's like the diff between rubbing one out and going to a sex club for a massive orgy.

IDK, I just figured some better training/testing requirements for a 100% licencing program that put all gun owners on the same across the board rule book/system might have a better chance at having an effect and making progress....unlike another assault weapons fail.
I think you're giving a full on military situation too much credit. Besides a lot of this stuff happens even in training. I don't see how a full on military engagment that you were mentally prepared for because you knew exactly where you were and the situation you were heading into would be more stressful than you walking through the park minding your own business when suddenly your in the middle of a shoot out.

I didn't argue that the testing was a good idea. I agree with that 100%. It's never going to happen because we're Americans and deeply stupid, and it's certainly not going to happen BEFORE or WITHOUT a ban on assault rifles. That pretty much has to come before anything else simply because of the way that people think.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:37 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by BotanyBoy View Post
Oh plz...have you driven on the american roadways lately? Any 16 y/o with 25 bucks get's one, that's why being on the road is the most dangers place in america you can be. The gov fails like 3 or 4 times(?) harder at stupid/bad driver control than they do at homicidal maniac with a gun control.

I fear the asshole texting at 60mph, horse assing behind the wheel, racing, drinking etc. than I do people having guns.

Hell even in the rare occurrence I do find myself under fire and unarmed there is the chance I could fight back. 2500-90,000 lbs of idiot operated car/truck rolling at 50+ mph? not a fucking chance in hell.....

ok I'm done now
And texting while driving is regulated in more and more states every year.
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