Do you think..

[GinaeEvans]

Constant practice is enough to grow as a writer? Or does one also need to have a natural flair for it as well?

[steve44uk]

Originally Posted by GinaeEvans

Constant practice is enough to grow as a writer? Or does one also need to have a natural flair for it as well?

I think that, as with most skills, you can achieve improvements by practising your writing. But I also think that, as with most skills, some people are simply better at some things than others (you can argue whether it's a genetic predisposition or environmental still the cows come home - my feeling is it's a combination of the two - I know people who are voracious readers but can't write to save their lives).

[NaokoSmith]

This is a good site for tips on writing habits to practice:
http://robbgrindstaff.com/ask-the-editor-blog/

[GinaeEvans]

Originally Posted by steve44uk

I think that, as with most skills, you can achieve improvements by practising your writing. But I also think that, as with most skills, some people are simply better at some things than others (you can argue whether it's a genetic predisposition or environmental still the cows come home - my feeling is it's a combination of the two - I know people who are voracious readers but can't write to save their lives).

Yeah, I agree to a point. I know a couple of people who've taken some writing classes, but their pieces still sound a little forced and unnatural. I just think it's interesting how it seems to be effortless for some and a real trial for others.

I also think, especially with writing, that you have to have some sort of natural inclination towards it to give it that extra 'oomph', if you will.

[steve44uk]

Originally Posted by GinaeEvans

Yeah, I agree to a point. I know a couple of people who've taken some writing classes, but their pieces still sound a little forced and unnatural. I just think it's interesting how it seems to be effortless for some and a real trial for others.

I also think, especially with writing, that you have to have some sort of natural inclination towards it to give it that extra 'oomph', if you will.

That's certainly true for me. I can't write about what doesn't interest me.

[GinaeEvans]

Originally Posted by NaokoSmith

This is a good site for tips on writing habits to practice:
http://robbgrindstaff.com/ask-the-editor-blog/

Thanks! I'll have a look. Always looking for ways to improve.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

My approach to anything is to find better, simpler ways to do the work. This means I must recognize what needs fixing. amd know when its fixed.

Last nite I looked at Old West paintings made by Henry F. Farny. I like his stuff better than Frederic Remingtons but I cant put my finger on the difference, so I'm not much of an art critic.

I also suspect that real success as a writer is 99% who you know. I find Walter Lippmann's blabber incomprehensible but he went to Harvard, knew plenty of influential people there, caught breaks no one ever gets, and became king of pundits down in Washington. Yet his writing sux, and no one reads him anymore.

[GinaeEvans]

Originally Posted by JAMESBJOHNSON

My approach to anything is to find better, simpler ways to do the work. This means I must recognize what needs fixing. amd know when its fixed.

Last nite I looked at Old West paintings made by Henry F. Farley. I like his stuff better than Frederic Remingtons but I cant put my finger on the difference, so I'm not much of an art critic.

I also suspect that real success as a writer is 99% who you know. I find Walter Lippmann's blabber incomprehensible but he went to Harvard, knew plenty of influential people there, caught breaks no one ever gets, and became king of pundits down in Washington. Yet his writing sux, and no one reads him anymore.

Hey! You're still around! You used to give me a hard time under my other pen name and I loved you for it.

Anyway...

The 'who you know' game certainly does factor into the success bit of it. I know a lot of people who write, myself included, don't really kid themselves with believing that they'll actually end up landing a huge publishing deal.

And, yeah, I've read a lot of published books that were supposed to be wonderful, but lacked anything special.

What are the chances that a talented nobody can get ahead in such a fickle business?

[Handley_Page]

Originally Posted by GinaeEvans

What are the chances that a talented nobody can get ahead in such a fickle business?

From what I have heard (and read a little of), 50 shades comes damn close to proving that (aided by some very good publicity, of course).

[GinaeEvans]

Originally Posted by Handley_Page

From what I have heard (and read a little of), 50 shades comes damn close to proving that (aided by some very good publicity, of course).

Bloody hell, I read a few excerpts of that mess and it was all I could tolerate.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Originally Posted by GinaeEvans

Hey! You're still around! You used to give me a hard time under my other pen name and I loved you for it.

Anyway...

The 'who you know' game certainly does factor into the success bit of it. I know a lot of people who write, myself included, don't really kid themselves with believing that they'll actually end up landing a huge publishing deal.

And, yeah, I've read a lot of published books that were supposed to be wonderful, but lacked anything special.

What are the chances that a talented nobody can get ahead in such a fickle business?

Once you embrace the fortuitous nature of fame & fortune its easier to invest yourself in the work, and ignore the other. I call it the 'philosophy of work'.

Yep, I'm like evil and ugly...always around.

[NaokoSmith]

Originally Posted by GinaeEvans

Bloody hell, I read a few excerpts of that mess and it was all I could tolerate.

I posted a thread a couple of days ago with a guy reading 50 Shades in 50 different voices. It was really helpful since I couldn't bear to read the damn thing myself! Scooby-doo was particularly hilarious.

You can be quite successful too by hitting on a genre that has a voracious audience. I'm still boggled by the continuing sales of my werewolf romance story, which discerning readers on here criticise quite rightly for its horrible grammatical errors and editing nightmare lines! But that of course is about being a successful writer in terms of just shifting words off into Kindles, rather than being a good writer per se.

(I have an editor now, BTW, so my next one will hopefully be much better. A good editor really really helps your writing.)

[lovecraft68]

I think its like anything else. Hard work and practice will always help, but you have to have some initial "core talent" to work with.

I feel overall writing is an innate ability you have or you don;t and everyone to varying degrees. If you have limited talent the practice is still only going to take you so far, other may never work at it at all and just simply be better at it.

You can see examples of that here. You can find authors that have been here writing for years and their most recent is no better than their first. Then you see authors who have been here for months and you can see a vast improvement.

A lot of it is working at it, but you can still only improve on what you naturally have and some have more than others.

[TxRad]

Going back and rereading some of my early stuff makes me cringe. The story was good but the technique was terrible. I've edited some f it and it looks and flows much better. some I leave as a reminder of how bad it was.

So yeah, practice helps a lot.

But the basic story has to be there for it to work in either case.

[lovecraft68]

Originally Posted by TxRad

Going back and rereading some of my early stuff makes me cringe. The story was good but the technique was terrible. I've edited some f it and it looks and flows much better. some I leave as a reminder of how bad it was.

So yeah, practice helps a lot.

But the basic story has to be there for it to work in either case.

With my daughters wedding (which was yesterday) looming on me I really had no creative focus last week and decided to pull out my first lit story "Almost Perfect" and re write it for an exercise

First off, I should have renamed it "almost legible"

It was about 6200 words and I ended up dropping about 900 words. I fixed 17 typos added a staggering 31 commas and removed a few as well.

I also had screwed up my punctuation so much in my dialogue I was amazed the story was not rejected.

[loquere]

Both, also your personal experiences a divorce facing death etc.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Originally Posted by lovecraft68

I think its like anything else. Hard work and practice will always help, but you have to have some initial "core talent" to work with.

I feel overall writing is an innate ability you have or you don;t and everyone to varying degrees. If you have limited talent the practice is still only going to take you so far, other may never work at it at all and just simply be better at it.

You can see examples of that here. You can find authors that have been here writing for years and their most recent is no better than their first. Then you see authors who have been here for months and you can see a vast improvement.

A lot of it is working at it, but you can still only improve on what you naturally have and some have more than others.

Its like anything else. I put in my first garden 5 years ago. I have talent for it but it took me 5 years to attract earthworms and create an ecology thats hostile to pests. I call my improvements 'merit badges.' Talent gives you a legup but there must be toil and enthusiasm, too. Plus the appetite to learn.

[DeeZire]

Originally Posted by steve44uk

I think that, as with most skills, you can achieve improvements by practising your writing.....

If you (not you, but the collective "you") are practicing bad writing, repetition will not guarantee improvement. Scouries comes to mind. Workshopping your work (or feedback in that forum) could reveal problems you're not aware of. The important thing is to make your voice your own - or at least, your own in the context of the character you're portraying. Writing to please critics can dilute your voice, since criticism is so subjective.

While I'm primarily a musician/songwriter, lately, I've taken to putting stickies in the books I'm reading when I find an amazing bit of writing. Here's an example from the Raymond Chandler short story "The Lady in the Lake" - Dime Detective Magazine, 1939: (1st person POV - The guy just walked into a room with a freshly-deceased body in it. The blood is still dripping from the bullet hole.)

"The silence held. The room was full of it, brimming over with it. A bird chirped outdoors in a tree, but that only made the silence thicker. You could have cut slices of if and buttered them."

I love this kind of writing. I don't think you can learn how to be a genius, but I think you can learn from geniuses and apply that knowledge to your own work. My goal is to transcribe these gems as a find them. Hopefully, this little exercise may influence what I write - or it may make me realize I'm wasting my time.

(BTW - Just a couple of weeks ago, JBJ posted his first story here at LIT. 1,100 words. Trailer Trash Tales, Act 1.)

[TE999]

Practice makes perfect, but natural flair makes it worth reading.

[GinaeEvans]

Originally Posted by DeeZire

If you (not you, but the collective "you") are practicing bad writing, repetition will not guarantee improvement. Scouries comes to mind. Workshopping your work (or feedback in that forum) could reveal problems you're not aware of. The important thing is to make your voice your own - or at least, your own in the context of the character you're portraying. Writing to please critics can dilute your voice, since criticism is so subjective.

While I'm primarily a musician/songwriter, lately, I've taken to putting stickies in the books I'm reading when I find an amazing bit of writing. Here's an example from the Raymond Chandler short story "The Lady in the Lake" - Dime Detective Magazine, 1939: (1st person POV - The guy just walked into a room with a freshly-deceased body in it. The blood is still dripping from the bullet hole.)



I love this kind of writing. I don't think you can learn how to be a genius, but I think you can learn from geniuses and apply that knowledge to your own work. My goal is to transcribe these gems as a find them. Hopefully, this little exercise may influence what I write - or it may make me realize I'm wasting my time.

(BTW - Just a couple of weeks ago, JBJ posted his first story here at LIT. 1,100 words. Trailer Trash Tales, Act 1.)

I love it too. Wonderful, juicy little tidbits that make you feel as if you're actually experiencing what the characters are. I try to do this too. It's like a fun game: trying to find the perfect words to suit the situation.

[SamScribble]

I think that it helps to start with some talent – an aptitude for storytelling, a love of words, an ear for dialogue. But what helps even more is making progress, especially some early progress.

I've known more than a few writers who have started badly. Some of them have got better with practice. And, in many cases, some structure guidance of some sort has had a positive effect. But, for others, progress has been rather more elusive.

One or two of those who made some early progress have developed into quite good writers. All bar one of those who didn't seem to have quit – sooner or later. I guess it is just human nature to get more pleasure from doing what we do well.

One of the downsides of the rise in self-publishing is that many more bad writers end up getting ‘published’, and they take this as progress and evidence that they should keep going. They shouldn't.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Originally Posted by DeeZire

If you (not you, but the collective "you") are practicing bad writing, repetition will not guarantee improvement. Scouries comes to mind. Workshopping your work (or feedback in that forum) could reveal problems you're not aware of. The important thing is to make your voice your own - or at least, your own in the context of the character you're portraying. Writing to please critics can dilute your voice, since criticism is so subjective.

While I'm primarily a musician/songwriter, lately, I've taken to putting stickies in the books I'm reading when I find an amazing bit of writing. Here's an example from the Raymond Chandler short story "The Lady in the Lake" - Dime Detective Magazine, 1939: (1st person POV - The guy just walked into a room with a freshly-deceased body in it. The blood is still dripping from the bullet hole.)



I love this kind of writing. I don't think you can learn how to be a genius, but I think you can learn from geniuses and apply that knowledge to your own work. My goal is to transcribe these gems as a find them. Hopefully, this little exercise may influence what I write - or it may make me realize I'm wasting my time.

(BTW - Just a couple of weeks ago, JBJ posted his first story here at LIT. 1,100 words. Trailer Trash Tales, Act 1.)

True, going thru the same motions with every story is hack writing.

[DeeZire]

Originally Posted by GinaeEvans

I love it too. Wonderful, juicy little tidbits that make you feel as if you're actually experiencing what the characters are.....

Towards this end, the 50-word story exercise can really teach you the value if each individual word. (Songwriting does the same thing.) Without the word limitation, we tend to waste words - sentences - paragraphs - entire chapters.

As an impatient reader, I tend to skim over the wordy sections that go all off topic and interrupt the forward motion. Then I find myself writing the exact same kind of crap when trying to flesh out a character or how they're feeling, and I have to try to edit it later.

I hate writing, (or I should say "writing well") but now and then, when it comes out right, it's worth the hassle.

[Bramblethorn]

Originally Posted by GinaeEvans

Constant practice is enough to grow as a writer? Or does one also need to have a natural flair for it as well?

I don't think any writer gets good without a lot of practice, but not all practice leads to improvement. I honestly don't know whether that's because each writer has a natural limit, or if they're just not practising effectively (e.g. not focusing on the right things).

[oggbashan]

My first attempt at an erotic story is still stored on a 5.25 floppy and was written with WordStar 1512 on an IBM XT.

I gave up on it over 10 years ago. It was awful and not worth trying to restart.

I think I have improved considerably since then but I can still write a stinker from time to time. The worst ones, I don't submit. The really bad ones don't get finished. But some slip through and get poor ratings.

Practice can improve the story-telling technique.

Practice can improve the technical aspects of writing.

But if you have no talent at all, practice won't help.

I had music lessons as a child. It didn't take my music teachers long to realise that my physical coordination was so poor that I would never be competent on any musical instrument. It took them slightly longer to persuade my parents that they were wasting their money, and hours of music practise couldn't remedy a physical incompetence.