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Old 01-25-2013, 04:09 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
I think it's your persistence that is hostile and irritating (and more than a little dense). You've received multiple explanations about how it works here.

A question, Clockwork. When you posted this comment the OP refers to, did you step up to posting it under your account name, or was it an anonymous comment?

And I think you've made clear what your belief is that others are obligated to follow. I just don't understand where you get off in so persistently pushing that others have to ascribe to your belief or should accept it as an obligation.

It's been explained to you that there's no such obligation on the Web site. You've stated your view. That's fine--for you. Why do you feel you have to repeatedly state it? It doesn't become any more of an obligation here just because you continually state you think it is an obligation.
Speaking of persistence and the topic at hand, you are persistently making your point that the author can do what they want, which they can, but of course have no tolerance for any opinion that differs.

But then again, we all know how thin skinned you are so I'm not surprised. You're proving it right here all but stomping your little feet saying "But you won;t agree with me dammit!"

If you were half as cool as you would like us all to believe you are you could walk away without the last word.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:15 PM   #52
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It would apprear that you're the one trying to get the last word, LC.

This "last word" crap is such a silly game. But then, that's what you deal in.

I'm pretty much in step with other regulars on this thread who also continue to respond to the "the authors have obligations" posts. Why don't you call them out? Could it be that you don't want to go up against them? (speaking of silly games).

So, continuing the silly game: you can now have the last word. (Yes, that's meant to shut you up--a win/win game. )
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:15 PM   #53
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A point I would like to make that expressed how I truly feel on this matter is this.

At the end of all of my stories(well maybe for the last year plus anyway) I put this in the closing authors note.

"Literotica is a free site meaning the only payment we authors receive is in the form of comments and votes. So if you liked, or didn't like, my story take a moment to vote and tell me why."

Now after a note like that if I delete a critical comment then I'm nothing short of a hypocrite and don;t think for a second a reader coming back to look and sees his comment gone isn't going to think "What a jerk"
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:16 PM   #54
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Double post, damn glitch.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:22 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
It would apprear that you're the one trying to get the last word, LC.

This "last word" crap is such a silly game. But then, that's what you deal in.

I'm pretty much in step with other regulars on this thread who also continue to respond to the "the authors have obligations" posts.
You're the only one throwing the word "obligation" around, no one has said anything about authors being "obligated" to do anything. We're simply discussing the practice itself and its merits, not riding in with some decree saying "HEAR YE, THIS MUST BE STOPPED NOW!"
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:25 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
A point I would like to make that expressed how I truly feel on this matter is this.

At the end of all of my stories(well maybe for the last year plus anyway) I put this in the closing authors note.

"Literotica is a free site meaning the only payment we authors receive is in the form of comments and votes. So if you liked, or didn't like, my story take a moment to vote and tell me why."

Now after a note like that if I delete a critical comment then I'm nothing short of a hypocrite and don;t think for a second a reader coming back to look and sees his comment gone isn't going to think "What a jerk"
Well, no offense, but who cares if a reader's comment is deleted? Let's face it, most people won't even know it. I don't keep track of who commented on a story and then was missing. I guess some do, but it seems like a lot of work to me. If they're that mad, they can leave another one.

Even if you're inviting commentary, there's nothing hypocritical about deleting a comment. You asked for feedback; you didn't guarantee that it would sit there forever. It's your choice to delete or not.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:27 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
It would apprear that you're the one trying to get the last word, LC.

This "last word" crap is such a silly game. But then, that's what you deal in.

I'm pretty much in step with other regulars on this thread who also continue to respond to the "the authors have obligations" posts. Why don't you call them out? Could it be that you don't want to go up against them? (speaking of silly games).

So, continuing the silly game: you can now have the last word. (Yes, that's meant to shut you up--a win/win game. )
Wow, you guys really don't like each other, huh?
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:44 PM   #58
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Well, no offense, but who cares if a reader's comment is deleted? Let's face it, most people won't even know it. I don't keep track of who commented on a story and then was missing. I guess some do, but it seems like a lot of work to me. If they're that mad, they can leave another one.

Even if you're inviting commentary, there's nothing hypocritical about deleting a comment. You asked for feedback; you didn't guarantee that it would sit there forever. It's your choice to delete or not.
Unless you specify "only kind, glowing praise please" then I feel it is wrong to delete a reasonably expressed critical remark. I also feel that if the person took the time to leave the comment (and we all know very few do) then I should give them the courtesy of leaving them there.

as for who cares? Oh, they care, trust me. I always say I will leave every comment up, no how matter how bad it was. I did delete one last year when someone went off that I used the "n" word in my story.

I didn;t care that he referred to me as racist, but he went on and on about Laurel and Manu being racist and lit was a cesspool because they allow that etc.... So out of courtesy to the site I removed it.

I got a long nasty e-mail from him saying I removed the comment "because I knew it was true. He also went on to say he was part of the black panthers and was going to hunt me down.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:45 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by ClockworkBanana View Post
You're the only one throwing the word "obligation" around, no one has said anything about authors being "obligated" to do anything. We're simply discussing the practice itself and its merits, not riding in with some decree saying "HEAR YE, THIS MUST BE STOPPED NOW!"
I don't think this is consistent with how you started this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClockworkBanana View Post
...it seems ridiculous to me that authors are allowed to delete every single comment they so desire, and thus some choose to delete every comment that isn't overwhelmingly positive (I mean, I still said the story was good and that he was an excellent author, I just had some criticism for parts of one story.)

Would it maybe be feasible to have some sort of situation where the author can choose to turn comments on or off, but if they choose to have comments turned on, they aren't allowed to cherrypick the comments themselves?
Perhaps I misread that, but it sounded like you were suggesting changing the site mechanics in such a way that authors are no longer able to delete comments at their discretion. That is not merely a discussion of the merits of comment deletion, it's a call for action that would prevent that behaviour.

It's the difference between me saying "folk would be happier if they didn't drink" and "what if we banned the sale of alcohol?" and I think 'constrained' is a valid way to describe the latter.

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Old 01-25-2013, 04:46 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by SecondCircle View Post
Wow, you guys really don't like each other, huh?
Nah, that would imply I care, I just enjoy envisioning him getting all red in the face and waving his little finger around and sputtering.

besides he claims he's ignoring me, so I don;t understand the issue.

But maybe he should petition the site to remove any post that is remotely negative for the benefit of his thin skin.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:49 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClockworkBanana View Post
You're the only one throwing the word "obligation" around, no one has said anything about authors being "obligated" to do anything. We're simply discussing the practice itself and its merits, not riding in with some decree saying "HEAR YE, THIS MUST BE STOPPED NOW!"
it seems ridiculous to me that authors are allowed to delete every single comment they so desire

Umm, no. Bramblethorn called you on this. You were talking obligation coming out of the gate. Perhaps you need to look the word up in the dictionary and compare it with the quoted phrase.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:50 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post
I don't think is consistent with how you started this thread:



Perhaps I misread that, but it sounded like you were suggesting changing the site mechanics in such a way that authors are no longer able to delete comments at their discretion. That is not merely a discussion of the merits of comment deletion, it's a call for action that would prevent that behaviour.

It's the difference between me saying "folk would be happier if they didn't drink" and "what if we banned the sale of alcohol?" and I think 'constrained' is a valid way to describe the latter.
What all these threads, because there is like one a month about anon and comments, really lead to is one simple fact.

Each author will handle comments the way they see fit. So really, no right or wrong method.

But the wrinkle this one had was people who literally cannot handle any critique, even well meant critique and I just feel that says a bit about the author. The author I mentioned that deleted mine is insufferably arrogant about his scores and his "glowing" feedback, so seeing its only glowing because he removes what Isn't I have no respect for that person, but again this is me and I am all I can speak for.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:51 PM   #63
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Wow, you guys really don't like each other, huh?
Nope. But do keep an eye on who initiates a personal attack on who.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:56 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
it seems ridiculous to me that authors are allowed to delete every single comment they so desire

Umm, no. Bramblethorn called you on this. You were talking obligation coming out of the gate. Perhaps you need to look the word up in the dictionary and compare it with the quoted phrase.
I might have missed an earlier post of yours, but just bring me up to speed. Do you delete comments you don't like?
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:03 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
Unless you specify "only kind, glowing praise please" then I feel it is wrong to delete a reasonably expressed critical remark. I also feel that if the person took the time to leave the comment (and we all know very few do) then I should give them the courtesy of leaving them there.
Okay, but why should give them this courtesy? I'm just asking. I can see that if a writer deletes a lot, they'll gain a reputation for it and hence probably get fewer comments, or more trollish ones. But why then can't some commenters give the authors the courtesy of comments that aren't personal attacks?

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as for who cares? Oh, they care, trust me. I always say I will leave every comment up, no how matter how bad it was. I did delete one last year when someone went off that I used the "n" word in my story.
Well, fine, but you set yourself up for it then. I make no such promises. If you promise it, then people will expect you to follow through, no doubt.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:12 PM   #66
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I might have missed an earlier post of yours, but just bring me up to speed. Do you delete comments you don't like?
I've deleted fewer than ten comments out of those posted to my 565 stories here, and if you look at my stories, you'll see a few humdingers here and there that I've left--although, surprisingly enough (to some backbiters here), I generally get very favorable comments on my stories. My fan club might be comparatively small, but it's here--and it's quite large enough for my satisfaction. Those who would want to assert that I delete all negative comments are blowing smoke if they haven't researched that point.

Most of what I've deleted were comments about me personally or were just an anti-gay diatribe and weren't about the story at all. A few have been by someone with his/her head up their ass on a commercial fiction point (Re that point about many commenters not knowing what the hell they're talking about--I'm a professional writer). One was from Freddie, which was complimentary up to the last sentence where he said my story was almost as good as what he writes. I don't feel an obligation to advertise for Freddie's stories and it was obvious why he posted the comment.

I don't have to be personally involved in an issue before coming to the aid of the authors on Literotica. I'm just espousing the principle that anyone coming here just to have fun writing and wanting to connect positively with others should be left the hell alone to do so, no matter how bad their prose is--because the Web site was set up to accommodate that. And that the only way to assume that they want writing skill development is if they directly ask for it. Then, yes, give them feedback. But you really should have significantly more experience in writing than they do before you do that.

Does this get charged as a "last word" attempt? I was responding to a direct question.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:16 PM   #67
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Okay, but why should give them this courtesy? I'm just asking. I can see that if a writer deletes a lot, they'll gain a reputation for it and hence probably get fewer comments, or more trollish ones. But why then can't some commenters give the authors the courtesy of comments that aren't personal attacks?



Well, fine, but you set yourself up for it then. I make no such promises. If you promise it, then people will expect you to follow through, no doubt.
I simply extend them the courtesy because something in my story affected them enough to comment.

Either they thought it was great and wanted to tell me so

They thought it was good, but could have been better and want to suggest how (which means the story had them thinking and they were invested in it, so to me, a compliment)

Or it incensed them and they wanted to tell me about.

I'll add number 4) they're trolls and love to spew nasty shit with no repercussions. I leave them up there because IMO removing it shows they got to me. I also leave them there because its funny

So those are my reasons why I feel its out of courtesy.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:32 PM   #68
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I've deleted fewer than ten comments out of those posted to my 565 stories here, and if you look at my stories, you'll see a few humdingers here and there that I've left--although, surprisingly enough (to some backbiters here), I generally get very favorable comments on my stories. My fan club might be comparatively small, but it's here--and it's quite large enough for my satisfaction. Those who would want to assert that I delete all negative comments are blowing smoke if they haven't researched that point.

Most of what I've deleted were comments about me personally or were just an anti-gay diatribe and weren't about the story at all. A few have been by someone with his/her head up their ass on a commercial fiction point (Re that point about many commenters not knowing what the hell they're talking about--I'm a professional writer). One was from Freddie, which was complimentary up to the last sentence where he said my story was almost as good as what he writes. I don't feel an obligation to advertise for Freddie's stories and it was obvious why he posted the comment.

I don't have to be personally involved in an issue before coming to the aid of the authors on Literotica. I'm just espousing the principle that anyone coming here just to have fun writing and wanting to connect positively with others should be left the hell alone to do so, no matter how bad their prose is--because the Web site was set up to accommodate that. And that the only way to assume that they want writing skill development is if they directly ask for it. Then, yes, give them feedback. But you really should have significantly more experience in writing than they do before you do that.

Does this get charged as a "last word" attempt? I was responding to a direct question.
So by your logic, the comments that have been left on your stories have little to no merit because they aren't as experienced as you? Even those comments that are praise? And since you didn't ask for the feedback, that they should leave you the hell alone, since you don't need help writing?

Sorry no disrespect meant, it just seems odd to me.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:35 PM   #69
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So by your logic, the comments that have been left on your stories have little to no merit because they aren't as experienced as you? Even those comments that are praise? And since you didn't ask for the feedback, that they should leave you the hell alone, since you don't need help writing?

Sorry no disrespect meant, it just seems odd to me.
Hey, just stop that crap. I gave several reasons why I deleted comments. And I also said I deleted damn few and left a lot of humdingers up. Just stop picking and choosing what you're going to T off on. You are purposely misrepresenting what I posted.

And don't say you're not being disrespectful when you obviously are.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:49 PM   #70
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In this thread I disagree with Pilot on one thing and that is the comment along the lines of no one being qualified to critique a story.

You do not need to be a professional writer or editor to simply say "Liked it/didn't like it"

You also do not have to be professional to say "There were several annoying typos." anyone who can read can spot a misspelled word.

We are not here writing for professionals we're writing for readers and they have every right to express an opinion. We can decide how much merit they have on a case by case basis, but they have the right to do so.

To say non one is qualified to comment is disdainful to the audience we're allegedly trying to reach.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:00 PM   #71
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Point out where I said no one was qualified. I didn't post that. You too are misrepresenting what I post.

From you, though, that's not a surprise.

I wonder why so many of you have a problem with the Mind Your Own Business concept.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:26 PM   #72
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Reminder that this thread was not about what someone could post as a comment on a story (I'm not one who rails on the forum about that; there are others posting to this thread who do). It was about what comments an author should be obligated not to erase.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:24 PM   #73
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I don't think this is consistent with how you started this thread:

Perhaps I misread that, but it sounded like you were suggesting changing the site mechanics in such a way that authors are no longer able to delete comments at their discretion. That is not merely a discussion of the merits of comment deletion, it's a call for action that would prevent that behaviour.

It's the difference between me saying "folk would be happier if they didn't drink" and "what if we banned the sale of alcohol?" and I think 'constrained' is a valid way to describe the latter.
Obviously I do not have the power to make such changes, and was not making a demand. I was raising the question for debate as to whether the system I proposed might work better, and then I expressed my personal opinion that I think it would.

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it seems ridiculous to me that authors are allowed to delete every single comment they so desire

Umm, no. Bramblethorn called you on this. You were talking obligation coming out of the gate. Perhaps you need to look the word up in the dictionary and compare it with the quoted phrase.
You keep making the argument "Authors are allowed to do whatever they want, that's the rule, so you're wrong!" Under the current system, I am fully aware that this is the current rule, and I am not arguing that under the current system they have an obligation to keep up certain comments. I was simply expressing my opinion that I think it is unfortunate that suggestions/constructive criticism get deleted by thin-skinned writers who only want positive feedback and nothing else.

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I've deleted fewer than ten comments out of those posted to my 565 stories here, and if you look at my stories, you'll see a few humdingers here and there that I've left--although, surprisingly enough (to some backbiters here), I generally get very favorable comments on my stories. My fan club might be comparatively small, but it's here--and it's quite large enough for my satisfaction. Those who would want to assert that I delete all negative comments are blowing smoke if they haven't researched that point.

Most of what I've deleted were comments about me personally or were just an anti-gay diatribe and weren't about the story at all. A few have been by someone with his/her head up their ass on a commercial fiction point (Re that point about many commenters not knowing what the hell they're talking about--I'm a professional writer). One was from Freddie, which was complimentary up to the last sentence where he said my story was almost as good as what he writes. I don't feel an obligation to advertise for Freddie's stories and it was obvious why he posted the comment.
What are we arguing about, then? I'm not talking about the sorts of comments you're describing which obviously deserve to be deleted, I'm talking about well thought out comments that have suggestions and constructive criticism. And if you're so pro-"the author can do whatever they want" why do you feel the need to "defend" yourself and say that you only delete spam-ish comments and don't delete feedback? Obviously the fact that you thought that you need to "defend" yourself from such an accusation means that at least to some degree you think that cherrypicking comments and deleting suggestions/constructive criticism is a bit underhanded and weaselly.

Quote:
I don't have to be personally involved in an issue before coming to the aid of the authors on Literotica. I'm just espousing the principle that anyone coming here just to have fun writing and wanting to connect positively with others should be left the hell alone to do so, no matter how bad their prose is--because the Web site was set up to accommodate that.
There is an option to turn comments and feedback off. Under the change that I raised for debate, that would still be an option for such people.

Quote:
And that the only way to assume that they want writing skill development is if they directly ask for it. Then, yes, give them feedback. But you really should have significantly more experience in writing than they do before you do that.
I totally disagree. To your first point, if they turn comments on, that means they are inviting them to some degree.

To your second point, saying that no one should be allowed to express their opinion unless they have "significantly more experience" than the author is way off, in my opinion, and I agree with what LC wrote above.

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Old 01-25-2013, 07:49 PM   #74
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[to SR]And if you're so pro-"the author can do whatever they want" why do you feel the need to "defend" yourself and say that you only delete spam-ish comments and don't delete feedback? Obviously the fact that you thought that you need to "defend" yourself from such an accusation
Reminder of context: SecondCircle asked a direct question, "Do you delete comments you don't like?" and SR responded to that question. It seems a bit silly to characterise this as "defense" - if he had not given a full answer, would that have been "evasion"?

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Originally Posted by ClockworkBanana View Post
means that at least to some degree you think that cherrypicking comments and deleting suggestions/constructive criticism is a bit underhanded and weaselly.
Beware the temptation to ascribe one's own motivations to others. Especially when those 'others' are strangers on the Internet and there is a much more straightforward explanation at hand.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:54 PM   #75
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I totally disagree. To your first point, if they turn comments on, that means they are inviting them to some degree.

To your second point, saying that no one should be allowed to express their opinion unless they have "significantly more experience" than the author is way off, in my opinion, and I agree with what LC wrote above.
Yes, we disagree, including on what asking for writing issue feedback constitutes here. That's sort of the whole point. I go with what the Web site is. So, I guess you're sort of out of luck until you put up your own Web site.

And if you agree with "what LC wrote above," you are purposely misrepresenting what I posted too. Show where I posted that no one was qualified to give writing guidance in comments.

If you run out of good argument, you start just making it up?

This is a getting circular. You have your opinion and it doesn't match what we do here. I'm happy leaving it like that.
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