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Old 01-17-2013, 11:06 AM   #101
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They are not complete morons?
They both hate and fear women and make up for it by being alpha males from behind a keyboard.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:08 AM   #102
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:09 AM   #103
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They both hate and fear women and make up for it by being alpha males from behind a keyboard.
This post opened up many possibilities for snark and humour. I declined because the obvious is boring.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:11 AM   #104
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What happened to the War on Women???
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:11 AM   #105
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From 1994-2004, there were some restrictions on high capacity magazines...and the 2nd Amendment somehow survived.
Some Columbine school kids didn't.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:12 AM   #106
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This post opened up many possibilities for snark and humour. I declined because the obvious is boring.
Hey, anyrhing has to be better than yet another thread from the tiny penis brigade about how Obama the socialist/ fascist/ Kenyan/ Muslim/ Radical Christian is coming to emasculate them.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:14 AM   #107
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What happened to the War on Women???
Paul Ryan's latest bill has a nice provision protecting rapists' rights to further abuse their victims.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:15 AM   #108
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They are not complete morons?

Thanks for your patience while I catch up.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:33 AM   #109
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Everyone has their own thoughts on what the words "Gun Control" mean to them.

And you always do a great job of letting us know where you're coming from.

Me, I think your view is limited in scope and fatalistic.

I do not believe that all things are on "Repeat".

Nor do I believe "there is nothing new under the sun".

I have a less limited view of the possibilities.

I believe the majority of Americans who elected your current goverment did so because of their shared desire for something different and something better.

So, I will be interested to see how that plays out...because times have changed even in the short years and months since the "hope" campaign and the "forward" campaign.
You are free to believe anything you want Lance. The fact is is that it's all been done before in one form or another. The problem with sitting around and dreaming up new social contracts is the the dreamer invariably falls into a "if only I could rule the world" mind set. This is particularly notable among the young, and some manage to hold on to those notions well into later life. It's a terrible flaw.

Actually the most recent election is, to my mind anyway, nothing more than a verification of my previous post. "Better" being defined as wanting the government to DO MORE for them. Never quite internalizing the fact that in order to 'do' for some means doing 'to' others. And those that do realize that rationalize the 'doing to' as merely the government meting out well deserved punishment for deeds real or imagined.

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Old 01-17-2013, 11:34 AM   #110
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:44 AM   #111
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:00 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Ishmael View Post
You are free to believe anything you want Lance. The fact is is that it's all been done before in one form or another. The problem with sitting around and dreaming up new social contracts is the the dreamer invariably falls into a "if only I could rule the world" mind set. This is particularly notable among the young, and some manage to hold on to those notions well into later life. It's a terrible flaw.

Actually the most recent election is, to my mind anyway, nothing more than a verification of my previous post. "Better" being defined as wanting the government to DO MORE for them. Never quite internalizing the fact that in order to 'do' for some means doing 'to' others. And those that do realize that rationalize the 'doing to' as merely the government meting out well deserved punishment for deeds real or imagined.

Ishmael
Or simply not really caring. It's not that the others need to be punished it's that they benefit from society and thus owe society.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:11 PM   #113
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Or simply not really caring. It's not that the others need to be punished it's that they benefit from society and thus owe society.
There are only two things that any one owes society, those being the paying of reasonable taxes and the respecting of rights of others.

You see your forefathers, my forefathers, me, you, and every other citizen BOUGHT AND PAID FOR EVERYTHING THAT YOU CALL SOCIETY. I don't own any mother fucking society one God damned penny, not one ounce of sweat.

There are only two sorts of people that claim others 'owe' society, politicians and parasites. I'm assuming you aren't a politician.

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Old 01-17-2013, 01:15 PM   #114
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You are free to believe anything you want Lance. The fact is is that it's all been done before in one form or another. The problem with sitting around and dreaming up new social contracts is the the dreamer invariably falls into a "if only I could rule the world" mind set. This is particularly notable among the young, and some manage to hold on to those notions well into later life. It's a terrible flaw.

Actually the most recent election is, to my mind anyway, nothing more than a verification of my previous post. "Better" being defined as wanting the government to DO MORE for them. Never quite internalizing the fact that in order to 'do' for some means doing 'to' others. And those that do realize that rationalize the 'doing to' as merely the government meting out well deserved punishment for deeds real or imagined.

Ishmael
Completely agree!
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:28 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Ishmael View Post
There are only two things that any one owes society, those being the paying of reasonable taxes and the respecting of rights of others.
Neither of which have anything that resembles a concrete definition. We as society define what is reasonable and to whom and what rights those around us do and don't enjoy.

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You see your forefathers, my forefathers, me, you, and every other citizen BOUGHT AND PAID FOR EVERYTHING THAT YOU CALL SOCIETY. I don't own any mother fucking society one God damned penny, not one ounce of sweat.
Yes you do. Our forefathers put a down payment down sure, but it's up to use to maintain what was given to us and hopefully improve it for those who come after us. You can use what ever terminology you want. Whether it's reasonable taxes or paying what you owe. I won't argue semantics but yes you do owe the society that has given you so much and will continue to give until the day that you die.

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There are only two sorts of people that claim others 'owe' society, politicians and parasites. I'm assuming you aren't a politician.

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Cute. Compete bullshit but at least it's cute.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:31 PM   #116
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Neither of which have anything that resembles a concrete definition. We as society define what is reasonable and to whom and what rights those around us do and don't enjoy.



Yes you do. Our forefathers put a down payment down sure, but it's up to use to maintain what was given to us and hopefully improve it for those who come after us. You can use what ever terminology you want. Whether it's reasonable taxes or paying what you owe. I won't argue semantics but yes you do owe the society that has given you so much and will continue to give until the day that you die.



Cute. Compete bullshit but at least it's cute.

Not everyone has to pay taxes (or pay what they owe).....don't they owe something as well?
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:34 PM   #117
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Not everyone has to pay taxes (or pay what they owe).....don't they owe something as well?
::views post::

Still dumb as a post I see. There are no people in America period who don't pay taxes. Not a single person living in this country manages that. There are people who are sufficiently poor that we realize that taking from their income is a waste of time and if you've a better idea on how to get the money where it needs to go I'd be happy to listen. Currently we've decided it would be stupid to take money from you and then turn around and hand you more food stamps than we're already giving you.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:12 PM   #118
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In a series of Executive Orders signed today, US President Obama formally declared War on Guns.

American successes in "Wars" against things other than foreign countries have always been low.

The NRA responded with an attack on the President's children.
Americans should just say "NO" to guns.




it worked with drugs.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:37 PM   #119
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::views post::

Still dumb as a post I see. There are no people in America period who don't pay taxes. Not a single person living in this country manages that. There are people who are sufficiently poor that we realize that taking from their income is a waste of time and if you've a better idea on how to get the money where it needs to go I'd be happy to listen. Currently we've decided it would be stupid to take money from you and then turn around and hand you more food stamps than we're already giving you.
Taxes on sales...yes. Income..no.

Those who receive welfare and food stamps need to also be productive in this society. They also need to "help". Perhaps taxing their "free" money is not the way, but at the very least, they should be required to work....even if only for their local communities. There are ALWAYS needs in a community. They could help others in need....they could help keep their community clean. I am sure they possess a great many skills which are not being utilized....i.e., perhaps some are very proficient in math/accounting (could help out in teaching children who are not)....perhaps skilled in mechanical things (help out people who needs car repairs and such)....perhaps electrical...plumbing...etc. Perhaps some are skilled with their cooking skills, I am sure there are places that serve others in need that could use those skills....... so many options if only one would take the time to look.

I bet if those who are having their paychecks reduced through taxes are seeing those receiving the benefit in their local communities and seeing those people giving of themselves to make it happen....I would bet there would be much less frustration on both sides.

....just an idea....
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:54 PM   #120
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Taxes on sales...yes. Income..no.
And on property, sin taxes, gas taxes, Social Security there are a few others. They are paying their fair share, their fair share just happens to be smaller than some peoples.

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Those who receive welfare and food stamps need to also be productive in this society. They also need to "help". Perhaps taxing their "free" money is not the way, but at the very least, they should be required to work....even if only for their local communities. There are ALWAYS needs in a community. They could help others in need....they could help keep their community clean. I am sure they possess a great many skills which are not being utilized....i.e., perhaps some are very proficient in math/accounting (could help out in teaching children who are not)....perhaps skilled in mechanical things (help out people who needs car repairs and such)....perhaps electrical...plumbing...etc. Perhaps some are skilled with their cooking skills, I am sure there are places that serve others in need that could use those skills....... so many options if only one would take the time to look.
Those needs in most neighborhoods are being dealt with just fine, not to mention our country's unemployment rate is below 10% so 90% of people are working. That includes at least most of these hated non-tax payers. You're assuming they have skills that are being under utilized, which is probably untrue. The reality is close to the majority of employed people are likely being over utilized. It's not like a cash register really needs a person behind it. The rest of the jobs you mention are already occupied.

I know this is difficult, but stop and think about what Denny's and Roto-rooter are going to do if they can fire employees and hire people the government is paying for with section 8 and food stamps, or worse if they have to compete with people who aren't part of the market. I understand your desire to make them work but your current plan is a bust.

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I bet if those who are having their paychecks reduced through taxes are seeing those receiving the benefit in their local communities and seeing those people giving of themselves to make it happen....I would bet there would be much less frustration on both sides.
Perhaps. More than likely basic econ 101 would kick in and the increased amount of available labor would further depress wages and those people who's pay checks are currently being reduced would end up receiving food stamps instead.

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....just an idea....
A bad one.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:30 PM   #121
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And on property, sin taxes, gas taxes, Social Security there are a few others. They are paying their fair share, their fair share just happens to be smaller than some peoples.



Those needs in most neighborhoods are being dealt with just fine, not to mention our country's unemployment rate is below 10% so 90% of people are working. That includes at least most of these hated non-tax payers. You're assuming they have skills that are being under utilized, which is probably untrue. The reality is close to the majority of employed people are likely being over utilized. It's not like a cash register really needs a person behind it. The rest of the jobs you mention are already occupied.

I know this is difficult, but stop and think about what Denny's and Roto-rooter are going to do if they can fire employees and hire people the government is paying for with section 8 and food stamps, or worse if they have to compete with people who aren't part of the market. I understand your desire to make them work but your current plan is a bust.



Perhaps. More than likely basic econ 101 would kick in and the increased amount of available labor would further depress wages and those people who's pay checks are currently being reduced would end up receiving food stamps instead.



A bad one.
Sales taxes include all of the above...except property. Only those who live in houses pay property taxes, I believe....(meaning those in apartments, don't).

I was not suggesting that the "jobs" I described above would be paying jobs. I was suggesting that those who are on welfare could help the community without being paid......they already are being paid by everyone else.

There is nothing wrong with someone who is sitting at home receiving a check being asked, required, what have you, to work in their community (for free).

You quickly assumed that any idea is a bad one, simply because it was mine. If you think about it, just for a bit....perhaps those who do receive welfare might actually like to "give back"....and maybe doing work for their own community is the only way they can. I would think you would applaud helping those who are in less fortunate circumstances, right now, to be able to be a productive part of their own communities.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:44 PM   #122
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Sales taxes include all of the above...except property. Only those who live in houses pay property taxes, I believe....(meaning those in apartments, don't).

I was not suggesting that the "jobs" I described above would be paying jobs. I was suggesting that those who are on welfare could help the community without being paid......they already are being paid by everyone else.

There is nothing wrong with someone who is sitting at home receiving a check being asked, required, what have you, to work in their community (for free).

You quickly assumed that any idea is a bad one, simply because it was mine. If you think about it, just for a bit....perhaps those who do receive welfare might actually like to "give back"....and maybe doing work for their own community is the only way they can. I would think you would applaud helping those who are in less fortunate circumstances, right now, to be able to be a productive part of their own communities.
How much "giving back" do your children do to earn that government check you cash for them each month?
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:45 PM   #123
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How much "giving back" do your children do to earn that government check you cash for them each month?
you assume much....and actually know very little....
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:47 PM   #124
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Sales taxes include all of the above...except property. Only those who live in houses pay property taxes, I believe....(meaning those in apartments, don't).
Hmmm. That's funny. You and yours keep saying that businesses don't pay taxes, they pass them on to the consumer. Is this true or isn't it?

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I was not suggesting that the "jobs" I described above would be paying jobs. I was suggesting that those who are on welfare could help the community without being paid......they already are being paid by everyone else.
Exactly. You're suggesting they do so for free. Which is all the more reason why people would start using them and would drive even more people out of the work force. Why would I pay the Smell Good Plumber to unclog my toilet when there is a food stamp rat running around? And when enough people do that isn't the plumber going to lose his job? I mean sure we'll have a qualified plumber but that sounds like the opposite of what we want to accomplish no?

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There is nothing wrong with someone who is sitting at home receiving a check being asked, required, what have you, to work in their community (for free).
Aside from it's called slavery and as I mentioned above will cause a downward spiral that you aren't even attempting to explain how or why you think differently.

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You quickly assumed that any idea is a bad one, simply because it was mine. If you think about it, just for a bit....perhaps those who do receive welfare might actually like to "give back"....and maybe doing work for their own community is the only way they can. I would think you would applaud helping those who are in less fortunate circumstances, right now, to be able to be a productive part of their own communities.
It is a bad idea, not because it's yours but because it's a bad idea. You lack the intelligence to come up with a decent plan and that's just the simple fact of the matter. Notice you're not even attempting to defend your idea.

I do applaud the idea of finding a useful thing for them to do, but I live in realville. I live in a city where at least 50% of the jobs still exist because of a combination of people being too stupid to eliminate them and too lazy. And a bit of nostalgia. The system currently isn't working for at least half of all Americans and frankly that's a conservative estimate. It's probably between sixty and seventy percent. Add into that the sheer number of jobs vanishing and it's staggering we've managed to keep unemployment as low as we have as long as we have.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:54 PM   #125
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Hmmm. That's funny. You and yours keep saying that businesses don't pay taxes, they pass them on to the consumer. Is this true or isn't it?



Exactly. You're suggesting they do so for free. Which is all the more reason why people would start using them and would drive even more people out of the work force. Why would I pay the Smell Good Plumber to unclog my toilet when there is a food stamp rat running around? And when enough people do that isn't the plumber going to lose his job? I mean sure we'll have a qualified plumber but that sounds like the opposite of what we want to accomplish no?



Aside from it's called slavery and as I mentioned above will cause a downward spiral that you aren't even attempting to explain how or why you think differently.



It is a bad idea, not because it's yours but because it's a bad idea. You lack the intelligence to come up with a decent plan and that's just the simple fact of the matter. Notice you're not even attempting to defend your idea.

I do applaud the idea of finding a useful thing for them to do, but I live in realville. I live in a city where at least 50% of the jobs still exist because of a combination of people being too stupid to eliminate them and too lazy. And a bit of nostalgia. The system currently isn't working for at least half of all Americans and frankly that's a conservative estimate. It's probably between sixty and seventy percent. Add into that the sheer number of jobs vanishing and it's staggering we've managed to keep unemployment as low as we have as long as we have.
You are a bit all over the place here......

My suggestion was not to take over jobs of other people...it was to help those whom truly just need the help. For example, with the plumber you spoke of....if someone on welfare is having plumbing issues and cannot afford to hire the plumber, having someone, like a neighbor, or could be called in to help would be a great thing. It would give them a sense of purpose, which would be really great.

I guess I am not understanding your position. Do you just want those on welfare to sit back and just receive checks and do nothing? I hear what you are saying about unemployment...but if the jobs are not there, how is that going to be changed?

What do you suggest to fix it? I was only suggesting that giving those who do receive welfare, and pay no taxes (like income) be given the chance to keep some dignity and have life purpose......
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