Go Back   Literotica Discussion Board > Main Literotica Forums > General Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools

Old 12-29-2012, 05:45 PM   #76
Squibbs
really? even with zero?
 
Squibbs's Avatar
 
Squibbs is offline
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by vetteman View Post
His biggest crime, the most unforgivable thing he did, and the reason for his destruction was the fact that he exposed the whole liberal establishment as willing participants in harboring Soviet spies in the government.

For a complete study of Joe McCarthy one must read Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies by M. Stanton Evans, one of the great journalists of our time, his study completely reverses 50 years of leftist propaganda and lies about McCarthy.

One might also read Ann Coulter's Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism which includes a complete defense of McCarthy and the unraveling of many of the lies told about him by the American left. This from Frontpage:


Ann Coulter, Author of Treason (2003):

The myth of "McCarthyism" is the greatest Orwellian fraud of our times. Liberals are fanatical liars, then as now. The portrayal of Sen. Joe McCarthy as a wild-eyed demagogue destroying innocent lives is sheer liberal hobgoblinism. Liberals weren't hiding under the bed during the McCarthy era. They were systematically undermining the nation's ability to defend itself, while waging a bellicose campaign of lies to blacken McCarthy's name. Liberals denounced McCarthy because they were afraid of getting caught, so they fought back like animals to hide their own collaboration with a regime as evil as the Nazis. As Whittaker Chambers said: "Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does."

At the time, half the country realized liberals were lying. But after a half century of liberal myth-making, even the disgorging of Soviet and American archives half a century later could not overcome their lies. In 1995, the U.S. government released its cache of Soviet cables that had been decoded during the Cold War in a top-secret undertaking known as the Venona Project. The cables proved the overwhelming truth of McCarthy's charges. Naturally, therefore, the release of decrypted Soviet cables was barely mentioned by the New York Times. It might have detracted from stories of proud and unbowed victims of "McCarthyism." They were not so innocent after all, it turns out.

Soviet spies in the government were not a figment of right-wing imaginations. McCarthy was not tilting at windmills. He was tilting at an authentic communist conspiracy that had been laughed off by the Democratic Party. The Democrats had unpardonably connived with the greatest evil of the 20th century. This could not be nullified. But liberals could at least hope to redeem the Democratic Party by dedicating themselves to rewriting history and blackening reputations. This is what liberals had done repeatedly throughout the Cold War. At every strategic moment this century, liberals would wage a campaign of horrendous lies and disinformation simply to dull the discovery the American people had made. They had gotten good at it.

There were, admittedly, a few rare and striking exceptions to the left's overall obtuseness to communist totalitarianism. John F. Kennedy's pronouncements on communism could have been spoken by Joe McCarthy. For all his flaws, Truman unquestionably loved his country. He was a completely different breed from today's Democrats. Through the years, there were various epiphanic moments creating yet more anti-communist Democrats. The Stalin-Hitler pact, Alger Hiss' prothonotary warbler, information about the purges and Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's "The Gulag Archipelago" – all these had their effect.

But after World War II, the Democratic Party suffered a form of what France had succumbed to after World War I. The entire party had lost its nerve for sacrifice, heroism and bravery. Beginning in the '50s, there was a real battle for the soul of the Democratic Party. By the late '60s, the battle was over. The anti-communist Democrats had lost.

Source:"I Dare Call it Treason," Frontpagemag.com (June 26, 2003).
el oh el
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 06:00 PM   #77
Comshaw
VAGITARIAN
 
Comshaw's Avatar
 
Comshaw is offline
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Pacific NorthWest USA
Posts: 5,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by vetteman View Post
His biggest crime, the most unforgivable thing he did, and the reason for his destruction was the fact that he exposed the whole liberal establishment as willing participants in harboring Soviet spies in the government.

For a complete study of Joe McCarthy one must read Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies by M. Stanton Evans, one of the great journalists of our time, his study completely reverses 50 years of leftist propaganda and lies about McCarthy.

One might also read Ann Coulter's Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism which includes a complete defense of McCarthy and the unraveling of many of the lies told about him by the American left. This from Frontpage:


Ann Coulter, Author of Treason (2003):

The myth of "McCarthyism" is the greatest Orwellian fraud of our times. Liberals are fanatical liars, then as now. The portrayal of Sen. Joe McCarthy as a wild-eyed demagogue destroying innocent lives is sheer liberal hobgoblinism. Liberals weren't hiding under the bed during the McCarthy era. They were systematically undermining the nation's ability to defend itself, while waging a bellicose campaign of lies to blacken McCarthy's name. Liberals denounced McCarthy because they were afraid of getting caught, so they fought back like animals to hide their own collaboration with a regime as evil as the Nazis. As Whittaker Chambers said: "Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does."

At the time, half the country realized liberals were lying. But after a half century of liberal myth-making, even the disgorging of Soviet and American archives half a century later could not overcome their lies. In 1995, the U.S. government released its cache of Soviet cables that had been decoded during the Cold War in a top-secret undertaking known as the Venona Project. The cables proved the overwhelming truth of McCarthy's charges. Naturally, therefore, the release of decrypted Soviet cables was barely mentioned by the New York Times. It might have detracted from stories of proud and unbowed victims of "McCarthyism." They were not so innocent after all, it turns out.

Soviet spies in the government were not a figment of right-wing imaginations. McCarthy was not tilting at windmills. He was tilting at an authentic communist conspiracy that had been laughed off by the Democratic Party. The Democrats had unpardonably connived with the greatest evil of the 20th century. This could not be nullified. But liberals could at least hope to redeem the Democratic Party by dedicating themselves to rewriting history and blackening reputations. This is what liberals had done repeatedly throughout the Cold War. At every strategic moment this century, liberals would wage a campaign of horrendous lies and disinformation simply to dull the discovery the American people had made. They had gotten good at it.

There were, admittedly, a few rare and striking exceptions to the left's overall obtuseness to communist totalitarianism. John F. Kennedy's pronouncements on communism could have been spoken by Joe McCarthy. For all his flaws, Truman unquestionably loved his country. He was a completely different breed from today's Democrats. Through the years, there were various epiphanic moments creating yet more anti-communist Democrats. The Stalin-Hitler pact, Alger Hiss' prothonotary warbler, information about the purges and Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's "The Gulag Archipelago" – all these had their effect.

But after World War II, the Democratic Party suffered a form of what France had succumbed to after World War I. The entire party had lost its nerve for sacrifice, heroism and bravery. Beginning in the '50s, there was a real battle for the soul of the Democratic Party. By the late '60s, the battle was over. The anti-communist Democrats had lost.

Source:"I Dare Call it Treason," Frontpagemag.com (June 26, 2003).

Why is it that the far right conservative and the far left liberal sound strikingly similar? It's like a board game where you can replace key names and phrases thus moving it from one extreme to the other. I think it has to do with a rabid blind faith in their chosen perversion of the facts , selective vision and manufacturing that which they want to believe. I think there is a name for that coined a long time ago: Zealot.


Comshaw
__________________
“Sometimes you find yourself in the middle of nowhere; sometimes in the middle of nowhere, you find yourself."


"The problem is not the problem; the problem is your attitude about the problem." Captain Jack Sparrow


Comshaw's Story Page
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 06:14 PM   #78
Comshaw
VAGITARIAN
 
Comshaw's Avatar
 
Comshaw is offline
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Pacific NorthWest USA
Posts: 5,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by vetteman View Post
It is Seanh's favorite news source:

The FBI's secret file on Marilyn Monroe: Document that shows agency kept track of intimate details about actress
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER and ASSOCIATED PRESS
PUBLISHED: 01:03 EST, 28 December 2012 | UPDATED: 06:08 EST, 28 December 2012

A classified file released by the FBI shows how the agency tracked Marilyn Monroe's suspected ties to communism in 1956.
The agency documented an anonymous phone call to the New York Daily News that year warning that playwright Arthur Miller was a communist and Monroe had 'drifted into the communist orbit' after her marriage to him earlier that year.
The file is just one piece of the puzzle about what the FBI knew about the actress when she died in August 1962.
The Associated Press waging an ongoing campaign to have more of the FBI documents released by the agency, coinciding with the 50th anniversary Monroe's death.

The redacted document reveals that on July 11, 1956, the agency got a tip that an anonymous male caller phoned the Daily News to report that the actress's company, Marilyn Monroe Productions, was 'filled with communists' and that money from the company was being used to finance communist activities.
The caller said Miller's marriage to Monroe during a Jewish ceremony less than a months earlier was a 'coverup.'

Miller, the man said, 'was still a member of the CP (communist party) and was their cultural front man.'

The FBI has long made portions of its documents about Monroe public, but most of them are heavily redacted.



However, the FBI claims it has lost its files on the actress and cannot release them.
Finding out precisely when the records were moved - as the FBI says has happened - required the filing of yet another, still-pending Freedom of Information Act request.
The most recent version of the files is publicly available on the bureau's website, The Vault, which periodically posts FBI records on celebrities, government officials, spies and criminals.
The AP appealed the FBI's continued censorship of its Monroe files, noting the agency has not given 'any legal or factual analysis of the foreseeable harm that might result from the release of the full records.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2GP9vt1RZ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Damn straight, we need to get back to this type of all American justice, letting unsubstantiated accusations from an anonymous source hang a fellow American. What could be more patriotic? We don't want no stinkin' communist liberals in our country! Line 'em up against the wall! We got no damn room for opposing ideas, or dissension! If they don't believe the way I think they should, they're fuckin' communist I tell you and should be exterminated!!! Save the country!!! Call in an anonymous tip today on anyone you think might be one. Don't worry about the truth or facts, if you think they are, they are!!!!



Comshaw
__________________
“Sometimes you find yourself in the middle of nowhere; sometimes in the middle of nowhere, you find yourself."


"The problem is not the problem; the problem is your attitude about the problem." Captain Jack Sparrow


Comshaw's Story Page
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 06:19 PM   #79
Sean
Cotillionesque
 
Sean's Avatar
 
Sean is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Eating foie gras in a Porsche.
Posts: 75,795
I saw Goody Proctor with the Devil!
__________________
"Well you are the nice one, you're supposed to think that."
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 06:21 PM   #80
Voodoo5150
Really Really Experienced
 
Voodoo5150's Avatar
 
Voodoo5150 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyVer View Post
McCarthy's biggest crime was his ignorance. His own party grew to despise him. Coulter is another version of McCarthy. She loves to write about subjects she knows jack about to impress conservative men.
In that case she should just whip out her cock. The'll be damn impressed by it's size.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 06:27 PM   #81
LadyVer
Just a mouse
 
LadyVer's Avatar
 
LadyVer is offline
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ridunculous
Posts: 12,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo5150 View Post
In that case she should just whip out her cock. The'll be damn impressed by it's size.
I wouldn't know although she does like men regardless of their political views which isn't a bad thing.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 06:29 PM   #82
Exquisition
Literotica Guru
 
Exquisition is offline
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,861
Quote:
Originally Posted by vetteman View Post
He was right, we had Russian agents in the government.
Yup, i think out of a list of 4000 or so original suspects he found 2 or 3?

I suppose that's a decent return?
__________________
Latest Story: Immaculate Conception www.literotica.com/s/immaculate-conception-2
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 06:32 PM   #83
1sickbastard
Schadenfreude!
 
1sickbastard's Avatar
 
1sickbastard is offline
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ATX
Posts: 12,858
Two lovely quotes from Mr M. Stanton Evans:

"I don't think that the way to correct a spin from the left is to try to impart a spin from the right.... [A]n information flow distorted from the right would be just as much a disservice as distortion from the left. What we really should be after... is accurate information. And I don't see what any conservative or anybody else for that matter has to fear from accurate information."

"We have two parties here, and only two. One is the evil party, and the other is the stupid party. I'm very proud to be a member of the stupid party. Occasionally, the two parties get together to do something that's both evil and stupid. That's called bipartisanship."
__________________
I calls'em like I sees'em.
Now where's my seeing-eye monkey?

“Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The truly civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant.” ― H.L. Mencken

"Logic is the chastity belt of the mind" ~ Hank the Hallucination

"Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life."~ Harry Dresden


I've been told I have a terribly sexy voice
Hello Playgrounders!
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 06:40 PM   #84
zipman
You talkin' to me?
 
zipman's Avatar
 
zipman is offline
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 32,045
LOL, I didn't know vetteman has been posting from his bomb shelter this whole time.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 06:43 PM   #85
vetteman
Forged In Fire
 
vetteman's Avatar
 
vetteman is offline
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 110,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sickbastard View Post
Two lovely quotes from Mr M. Stanton Evans:

"I don't think that the way to correct a spin from the left is to try to impart a spin from the right.... [A]n information flow distorted from the right would be just as much a disservice as distortion from the left. What we really should be after... is accurate information. And I don't see what any conservative or anybody else for that matter has to fear from accurate information."

"We have two parties here, and only two. One is the evil party, and the other is the stupid party. I'm very proud to be a member of the stupid party. Occasionally, the two parties get together to do something that's both evil and stupid. That's called bipartisanship."
That's why he took 6 years studying the "facts" in writing his book on McCarthy.
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 06:45 PM   #86
vetteman
Forged In Fire
 
vetteman's Avatar
 
vetteman is offline
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 110,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipman View Post
LOL, I didn't know vetteman has been posting from his bomb shelter this whole time.
Actually I'm posting from behind a Kleenex box in my man cave. ~sniff sneeze~
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 06:56 PM   #87
Voodoo5150
Really Really Experienced
 
Voodoo5150's Avatar
 
Voodoo5150 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exquisition View Post
Yup, i think out of a list of 4000 or so original suspects he found 2 or 3?

I suppose that's a decent return?
Nostradumbass got famous on what? Two correct predictions out of 2,000 over the course of 500 years of time for them to be fulfilled?

That practically makes McCarthy worthy of his own History channel show on accusations.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 06:59 PM   #88
TonyClifton
Literotica Guru
 
TonyClifton is offline
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,277
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 07:06 PM   #89
1sickbastard
Schadenfreude!
 
1sickbastard's Avatar
 
1sickbastard is offline
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ATX
Posts: 12,858
Quote:
Originally Posted by vetteman View Post
That's why he took 6 years studying the "facts" in writing his book on McCarthy.
That's also why I don't take any 'news' at face value. I do my own research and make up my own mind. I also try (and occasionally succeed) to figure the motivations for those presenting any information. And not for just the information presented, but the information excluded.
__________________
I calls'em like I sees'em.
Now where's my seeing-eye monkey?

“Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The truly civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant.” ― H.L. Mencken

"Logic is the chastity belt of the mind" ~ Hank the Hallucination

"Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life."~ Harry Dresden


I've been told I have a terribly sexy voice
Hello Playgrounders!
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 07:06 PM   #90
Squibbs
really? even with zero?
 
Squibbs's Avatar
 
Squibbs is offline
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,001
jizz .
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 07:09 PM   #91
vetteman
Forged In Fire
 
vetteman's Avatar
 
vetteman is offline
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 110,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sickbastard View Post
That's also why I don't take any 'news' at face value. I do my own research and make up my own mind. I also try (and occasionally succeed) to figure the motivations for those presenting any information. And not for just the information presented, but the information excluded.
Study the Verona Papers.
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 07:11 PM   #92
Sean
Cotillionesque
 
Sean's Avatar
 
Sean is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Eating foie gras in a Porsche.
Posts: 75,795
I saw Goody Nurse with the Devil!
__________________
"Well you are the nice one, you're supposed to think that."
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 07:30 PM   #93
badbabysitter
Vault Girl
 
badbabysitter's Avatar
 
badbabysitter is offline
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: eating pussy
Posts: 13,611
In response to vette's, coulters and evan's revisonist apologist version of McCarthy

In an age in which a not-insignificant percentage of the public can be led to believe George Bush Jr. was really behind the attack on the World Trade Center, Vincent Foster was murdered by Hillary Clinton, and Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and was allied with al Qaida, the occasional efforts of some less-than-useful writers to rehabilitate the reputation of the late commie-combating Senator Joseph McCarthy could, unfortunately, be viewed as par for the course. The last few years have seen a mini-genre of that flavor emerge. The pseudo-scholarly efforts of Arthur Herman appeared, just as quickly to fall by the wayside, having collapsed under even cursory examination. Ann Coulter, the most prominent of the nut right's assorted brainless bimbos, dipped her poisonous pen into this well and offered a worshipful screed of McCarthy-as-martyred-hero--it succeeded only in making her an even bigger laughingstock than she was before. Now, along comes M. Stanton Evans with yet another revisionist history. Like the rest, he's here to tell us the late Wisconsin Senator who became an -ism really was right after all, and that those people who criticized him sure were mean.

With "Blacklisted by History", Evans pulls a fast one before we even get past the cover. The subtitle of this, his latest dreary tome, is "The Untold Story of Senator Joseph McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies." The promise of an "untold story" is a common one in revisionist literature, and it at least has the benefit of alerting the serious student of the subject to start reaching for his wallet. Still, it seems a particularly egregious fiction when it comes to something written about so shopworn a subject as Joe McCarthy. McCarthy's time in the spotlight lasted only about four years, yet we've had over 50 years of books, movies, and other assorted commentary about it. Every piece of his story, no matter how minute, has been told and retold endlessly. Ann Coulter assured us that, in spite of this saturation coverage, everything we know about "Tailgunner Joe" was an "hegemonic lie," but Ann Coulter is mad as a hatter, and only those similarly afflicted find analytical value in the ravings of lunatics. What she offered, and what Evans is offering now, isn't anything "new" or, as Evans would have it, "untold"--it's just a re-re-retread of already-well-trod ground, a politically-motivated rewrite of McCarthy's story that begins with the premise that McCarthy was something between a well-intentioned fellow with a legitimate beef and an outright hero worthy of high praise and martyrdom, and works backward to try to "prove" the preconceived conclusion, indulging in whatever intellectual dishonesty, omission, and falsification of whatever details are required to achieve the desired result. And it takes quite a bit of all of that. This is why the revisionists' work has been consistently rejected across the political spectrum--even in this insanely conservative age, they represent an extreme fringe, and even the conservative scholars of the Cold War (the serious ones, that is) dismiss them out of hand. Histories' verdict of McCarthy is correct.

Joseph McCarthy's personal anti-communist crusade would rage throughout the federal government for four years, and, in the process, forever link his name in the public mind with wild and unsubstantiated accusations, baseless smears, and irresponsible charges.

Remarkably enough, it all began as merely a publicity stunt by a publicity hound looking to get his name in the paper.

It was born on January 7, 1950 at the Colony Restaurant in Washington. McCarthy was discussing his political future over dinner with attorney William Roberts, Charles Kraus (one of his staffers), and Father Edmund Walsh, arch-anti-commie of the Georgetown School of Foreign Service. McCarthy was dismayed that, with only two years left in his term, he'd done nothing as Senator to attract the national attention he craved. He needed a hot-button issue to get the spotlight on him. Throughout the course of the meal and in conversations after, a number of ideas were kicked around, all rejected as being of insufficient heat. Eventually, Walsh, in a move that changed history, suggested communism as an issue. McCarthy brightened immediately. A perfect way to make some headlines, no doubt. "The government is full of Communists," he declared. "The thing to do is hammer at them."

And thus began his career as an "anti-communist."

Within a few weeks, McCarthy went public, offering extravagant charges in various public forums around the country.

He began with a speech, on Feb. 9, 1950, to the Women's Republican Club in Wheeling, West Virginia, in which he claimed that a number of individuals known to be Communists were then working in the State Department and shaping U.S. policy. The actual number of these individuals offered by McCarthy became a subject of much controversy. A reporter for the Wheeling Intelligencer who was present for the speech wrote an item for the next day's paper, in which McCarthy was quoted as saying:

"...I have here in my hand a list of 205--a list of names that were known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party, and who, nevertheless, are still working and shaping the policy in the State Department."

McCarthy's rough notes of the speech include this comment, but the notes were extremely rough and totally unreliable at other points, rendering them of no real evidentiary value. In any case, McCarthy, as everyone agreed, was largely speaking extemporaneously, and not from a written speech. The only recording that was made of the event (by a local radio station) was erased the next day. The exact content of the speech is lost to history. The controversy regarding it has many aspects, but they aren't particularly relevant, here.

Without going into too many details, the best available evidence suggests that McCarthy, in describing how many Communists were known to be in the State Department, used both the number 205 and, at a different point, the number 57.

The 205 number comes from a letter written, in 1946, by then-Secretary of State James Byrnes to a congressman regarding several thousand government employees transferring into the State Department from other wartime agencies. 284 of them had been flagged as potential security risks, and, out of that, 79 had, at that time, been discharged, leaving 205.

The source of the number 57 requires a bit more background. In 1947, the staff of the very right-wing House Appropriations Committee had prepared a collection of dossiers, drawn from security files provided by the Truman administration. This was known as the "Lee list," named after the committee's chief clerk Robert Lee, and it consisted of 108 individuals--past, current, and potential government employees, as of 1947--whom the partisans on the committee and of the administration review board considered to be of mostly questionable "loyalty." The number 57 came from an administration official (John Peurifoy) who had, in 1948, testified to a different committee that, at that time, there were 57 of these 108 individuals employed by the government.

McCarthy seems to have used both these numbers at Wheeling. The controversy over the numbers, however, is of little consequence, and has been unnecessarily run into the ground by McCarthy's critics over the years. Score one for Evans for noting this. Relevant here are two things:

1) McCarthy made some extremely sensational and potentially explosive charges, and

2) McCarthy, after making such momentous charges, wasn't even sure of what he, himself, had said. He hadn't worked from a written speech, and, over time, told several contradictory versions of what his speech had contained. Once, he told the Senate: "I do not believe I mentioned the figure 205. I believe I said over 200." But on perhaps dozens of other occasions, he not only admitted using the number but went into detail on the point. For example:

"Up in West Virginia, we read to the audience a letter written by Jimmy Byrnes, the then-Secretary of State, to Congressman Sabath, in which he said that out of the 3,000 employees screened--employees who were being transferred from other departments into the State Department--they found 284 unfit for government service. He said of the 284 we discharged 79, leaving a total of 205. That night, I called upon [Secretary of State Dean] Acheson and the President to tell us where those 205 were, why they kept them in if the President's own board says they were unfit for service." (McCarthy, from U.S. News & World Report, 7 Sept., 1951)

In a less-than-clever maneuver, McCarthy would later enter, into the congressional record, the text of a speech he asserted was the Wheeling speech, claiming his text "was taken from a recording of the speech." However, he never, in fact, had any such recording, and what he entered into the record was a different speech, one he'd made in Reno, days after Wheeling. When this was exposed, McCarthy justified what he'd done by claiming the two speeches were identical, but the Reno speech only uses the 57 number, and makes no mention of 205 or anything regarding the Byrnes letter. Fred Woltman, a Scripps-Howard reporter, veteran anti-commie, and McCarthy friend (who eventually became a critic), later admitted that, many times, he'd "heard McCarthy and his advisors wrack their brains for some lead as to what he said in that Wheeling speech." (quoted by Richard Rovere in "Senator Joe McCarthy")

This sort of recklessness would characterize the entirety of McCarthy's time in the public spotlight.

In Denver, the day after Wheeling, he told reporters his comments from the day before had been misquoted, and that he'd actually said "205 bad security risks," instead of 205 Communists. He also told them that he had, in the words of an AP dispatch, "a complete list of 207 'bad risks' still working in the State Department." Of course, McCarthy pulled right out of his anal orifice the idea that this group was still working in the State Department--the Byrnes letter referred to events in 1946, four years earlier (and McCarthy had no list of them). McCarthy also repeated his charge that there were "57 card-carrying Communists" in the State Department. He offered to show his list to reporters, and made a great show of going through his briefcase for it (a picture of this farce was taken and also ran in the Denver Post). Eventually, he declared that he must have left it in his luggage on the plane. When he arrived in Salt Lake City and this wasn't a credible excuse any more, he refused to show the list to the assembled newsmen, saying he would only give it to the Secretary of State. But, at the same time, he asserted that the Secretary already knew the names.

In Salt Lake City, later that evening, McCarthy characterized his Wheeling speech like this: "Last night, I discussed the Communists in the State Department. I stated I had the names of 57 card-carrying members of the Communist party" working in the Department. In a radio appearance, he said "Now I want to tell [the Sec. of State] this: If he wants to call me tonight at the Utah Hotel, I will be glad to give him the names of those 57 card-carrying Communists." It's worth noting that, while he was running his mouth like this on a local radio station he knew no one in D.C. would ever hear, the State Department had actually wired him that morning requesting the names and promising an investigation. They wired him again the next morning, and he replied. Referencing the information from the Byrnes letter (the 205), he said that "the records are not available to me" on that group, this being only a day after he'd apparently told the press he had a "complete list" of them. He did insist, in his response, that "I have in my possession the names of 57 Communists who are in the State Department at present... Despite this State Department blackout, we have been able to compile a list of 57 Communists in the State Department." This, like his other comments about the 57, was also a lie. The number, recall, came from John Peurifoy's testimony regarding the "Lee list." McCarthy claimed these people were "in the State Department at present," but the Peurifoy testimony was, at that point, two years old. The "Lee list," in spite of McCarthy's representations noted here, didn't list "card-carrying members of the Communist party," either--it listed 108 individuals whom a very partisan right-wing congressional committee believed to be security risks, mostly because of their politics, or alleged politics, or the alleged politics of people they knew, or their politics as alleged by someone who knew someone who knew them 10 years ago (no kidding; some of it is really that bad). McCarthy was also misrepresenting the source of "his" list, as well, a matter to which I'll return momentarily.

The next stop on his traveling sideshow was Reno, where he alleged that the State Department "is thoroughly infested with Communists," but--perhaps finally becoming somewhat aware of how over-the-line he'd been--somewhat softened his charges: "I have in my hand 57 cases of individuals who would appear to be either card-carrying members or certainly loyal to the Communist party, but who, nevertheless, are still helping to shape our foreign policy." This, allowing that the 57 "appear to be" commies, rather than flat-out saying they are commies (as he'd done at every stop until Reno), was the softest version of these charges he made in these appearances. Tellingly, this is the speech he later tried to pawn off as identical to Wheeling.


So what was the story? Were there 205 "members of the Communist party" in the State Department, or were they "205 bad security risks"? Did he have a list of these more-than-200-whatevers, or did he not have access to this info, as he wired the President? Were there "57 card-carrying members of the Communist Party" making policy in the State Department, as he'd said on Feb. 10th, then, again, on the 11th, or was there "57 cases of individuals who would appear to be either card-carrying members or certainly loyal to the Communist party," as he said in Reno? Were these names already known by the Secretary of State, as he claimed on Feb. 9, then, again, on the 11th, or did the Secretary lack the names, as McCarthy suggested on the 10th? He was never able to get his story straight twice running. In the end, it didn't matter. McCarthy got his issue. By the time he returned to Washington, he'd become the center of national attention--a degree of attention, as it turned out, for which he was utterly unprepared.

"[McCarthy's] knowledge and understanding of Communism were sparse," wrote Woltman, a conclusion that would echo time and time again from those who knew the Senator. "Essentially he's no investigator. He's a headline-maker."

McCarthy biographer Thomas Reeves summarized: "McCarthy was not a serious student of anything, lacked any intellectual or moral sophistication, and was an alcoholic by the time he reached his maximum fame. True, some of his charges, while not original, were on target. FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, Richard Nixon, and an assortment of right-wing journalists slipped him information from time to time, and thus it was natural that the senator would come up with some correct information. But most of McCarthy's activities had very little to do with actual Reds in high places and much to do with the politics of the period and Joe's own peculiar personality."

Richard Fried, in NIGHTMARE IN RED, offers this: "He once dumbfounded his mentors [the anti-commies who sometimes worked with him] by professing ignorance of Earl Browder, former head of the CP. One tutor recalled that Joe ‘didn't know a communist from a street cleaner.'"

In real time, the truth behind such after-the-fact assessments became painfully apparent almost immediately.

On February 20, McCarthy layed out his charges to the Senate in a long, rambling, frequently contradictory, and nearly incoherent speech in which both the number accused and the nature of the accusations radically shifted yet again. Now, the number was suddenly 81, and, while he said he was "only giving the Senate... persons whom I consider to be Communists in the State Department," many of them suddenly weren't presently employed by the State Department. "A sizeable number of them are not" so employed--and had, in fact, never been so employed. After all of his hardcore ranting about all the card-carrying commies at State, and his assertion that he was "only" giving the Senate those cases, he also, at one point, backed off on that question, allowing that, upon further investigation, "some of these persons"--the cases he was offering--"will get a clean bill of health." Apparently unfamiliar with the information he, himself, was relaying, he went through the alleged 81 cases, which, as it turned out, didn't number 81, either--he skipped several of them entirely, and others turned out to be duplicative (he repeated cases he'd already covered). The actual number of cases he presented was 66. Many of the individuals worked for the United Nations, not the State Department. Some were just people who had applied for State Department jobs years earlier. One was suspect only because he worked under one of the others on McCarthy's list. One had been, years earlier, a Commerce Department employee (no connection to State). One--my personal favorite--was suspect because "there is nothing in the files to disprove his Communist connections." And so on.

Echoing his earlier wire to the President ("despite this State Department blackout..."), McCarthy grandly proclaimed he'd "penetrated Truman's Iron Curtain of secrecy," acquiring the files he was using via the efforts of "some good, loyal Americans in the State Department" whose jobs "would be worth nothing if [their] names were given." That all sounds very dark and conspiratorial, but, in reality, the source of nearly all of these "cases" was the "Lee list." McCarthy hadn't penetrated any "Iron Curtain of secrecy" to get them, nor had any State employees risked their necks by secreting them to him in the dead of night; the "Lee list" dossiers were drawn from files openly provided, by the administration itself, to the House of Representatives, three years earlier. They'd been bandied about the capitol for years. McCarthy had portrayed his information as current, then had weaved this spy-novel-style fiction about his primary source, which was, in reality, just a long-out-of-date committee file.

Evans, in writing about this, chooses to blow a lot of smoke:

"...arguably his [McCarthy's] single biggest miscue [in his oration to the Senate] was an error of omission--not telling his colleagues he was mining data from this list [the Lee list]. The reasons for this aren't entirely clear, as he would elsewhere freely cite the list as an important source of information..."

McCarthy wasn't committing some minor "error of omission" in this matter, though, and his motive seems pretty obvious--he was actively trying to mislead both the Senate and, by extension, the public he'd regaled with his wild charges, about the source of his information. This seemingly obvious fact tends to be given insufficient weight in the standard histories. The "Lee list" was a series of numbered cases. McCarthy, in presenting the information in the "Lee list" files, renumbered all of those cases. This made an orderly accounting of the charges much more difficult, and obfuscation, of which McCarthy proved a master, seems to be the only possible motive. Senator Homer Ferguson apparently deduced the "Lee list" origins of McCarthy's cases, and asked McCarthy why he "had taken them out of order" (a reference to the renumbering). McCarthy replied "I did take them in order. I get the impression that the Senator may have a file of his own." Essentially a denial that he was using the "Lee list" at all. McCarthy also presented findings by those who had assembled the files as though they were things he, himself, had learned. Again, his game seems pretty obvious.

Evans is clueless about all of this (or at least feigns cluelessness):

"Whatever his [McCarthy's] motive, his failure to cite the list in the beginning allowed his critics to make this a salient issue--deflecting notice from what the security information said to the procedural question of where, exactly, it had come from (a tactic used in many later conflicts)."

Suggesting that the worst possible interpretation of information in an old, out-of-date committee file raises questions about security procedures in the State Department three years ago? Not very sexy. Not the sort of thing that gets one's name in the paper. It sounds much snappier if you charge, as McCarthy had repeatedly, that you have the names of a number of card-carrying Communists who were then making policy in the State Department. To state the obvious, the relevance of McCarthy's source, bearing, as it does, directly on the accuracy of his charges, is self-evident in this matter. It's unclear by what logic Evans deduces that a question of such critical relevance is some sort of diversionary tactic, or a mere "procedural question." Probably the same sort of "logic" that told him it would be a good idea to waste six years of his life writing an "untold" story of Joseph McCarthy.

In addition to lying about the source of the dossiers, McCarthy distorted the information in them beyond recognition, again an indication that he was trying to conceal his source. In his recitation, he verbally transforms rumors and allegations into established fact, changes words like "liberal" into "communistically inclined," repeats charges recorded in the files without mentioning that the files also say those same charges were subsequently investigated and found to be without merit, and so on. William F. Buckley and Brent Bozell, in "McCarthy and His Enemies" (one of the earliest and still the best of the McCarthy apologies) mention this:

"A comparison of the dossier from which McCarthy got his material with McCarthy's own version of this material reveals that in 38 cases, he was guilty of exaggeration. On some occasions, 'fellow-traveller' had turned into 'Communist'; on others, 'alleged pro-Communist' had developed into 'pro-Communist.'"

Actually, the authors significantly understate McCarthy's distortions in his presentation. A much better and more detailed account of the incredible distortions, omissions, and outright lies offered by the Senator in his presentation is provided by Robert Griffith in "The Politics of Fear." Among other things, Griffith illustrates McCarthy's method by reprinting the actual "Lee list" information of a McCarthy subject, and comparing it to McCarthy's characterization. This is "Lee list" case #40:

"The employee is with the Office of Information and Educational Exchange in New York City. His application is very sketchy. There has been no investigation. (C-8) is a reference. Though he is 43 years of age, his file reflects no history prior to June 1941."

Here's how McCarthy presented the same case to the Senate:

"This individual is 43 years of age. He is with the Office of Information and Education. According to his file, he is a known Communist. I am not evaluating the information myself. I am merely giving what is in the file."

Evans says almost nothing about this, and he spins it like a top:

"...as his critics would note, if the security information said someone had been identified as a Communist, he tended to cite the identification as fact--no 'allegedly' about it. In prosecutorial mode, he pushed the evidence hard to make an indictment and seldom erred through understatement."[1]

Unmentioned by Evans is that, at the same time McCarthy was falsifying the information in the files (in a way that, in spite of Evans' gross mischaracterization, would get a prosecutor fired), he was also assuring the Senate that he was giving them the straight story about the files. Even Buckley and Bozell concede that McCarthy "deserves to be censured" for telling the Senate that, in his presentation of the information, "I have given Senators the fullest, most complete, fairest resume of the files that I possibly could." He'd done no such thing.


Two days after this miserable performance, the Senate authorized an investigation into these charges. The Tydings committee assigned to carry out the task was a very partisan body, and though Evans and its critics have heaped a great deal of scorn upon it--often deservedly so--the fact is that McCarthy couldn't substantiate his charges, and, after McCarthy's public shenanigans, the committee reached the only conclusion open to it; a thorough repudiation of McCarthy. Unfortunately, the damage was already done; in the atmosphere of early Cold War fear and paranoia, McCarthy's star was in ascendancy. He would continue to rage for four years, making charges carelessly, and as a matter of routine, including, in his target package, pretty much anyone who disagreed with him, until, finally, even his own Republican party turned on him. He fell from grace, was censured by his colleagues, and ended his life in obscurity, drinking himself to death at age 48.

In this ignorant, backwards age that is the Bush America, Evans and the other McCarthy revisionists have a fertile audience, and the internet offers a powerful new tool for them to spread their nonsense, particularly to the young, impressionable dullards who make up a significant part of Bush's voting base. Still, the smart money says their best efforts will be in vain. It's just too extreme. McCarthy's reputation is a lost cause. Best bet: It stays that way. All the revisionists will succeed in doing is misleading a handful of already-misled reactionaries. The best that can be said about their efforts to rehabilitate McCarthy is that, the more resources they pour into the project, the less they'll have for causing trouble for the rest of us.


---

[1] These sorts of misrepresentations are legion throughout Evans' text. In a manner not unlike that of McCarthy himself, the author buries material inconvenient to his premise that McCarthy is a hero, distorts the available record beyond recognition, and isn't above outright lying to make his case. A good example of that turns up in his handling of the Esther Brunauer charges. McCarthy had charged that:

"Esther Caulkin Brunauer was very active in launching an organization called the American Union for Concerted Peace Efforts... [The AUCPE] was cited [by HUAC] as a Communist-front organization, the leader of which was the editor of the Daily Worker."

Brunauer admitted her involvement with the group, even said she took great pride in it. She said it was a patriotic enterprise, denied it was a communist front and denied that Clarence Hathaway (the Daily Worker editor in question) ever had any connection to it.

Evans pretends as though McCarthy's only "mistake" was in mentioning Hathaway as "the leader" instead of "a leader":

"So, sorting out the details, we find that McCarthy upgraded Clarence Hathaway to 'a' leader in the Peace Efforts agitation to 'the' leader, obviously a different connotation in terms of Communist influence. Over against this we may place the categorical statements of Mrs. Brunauer and the Tydings panel that Clarence Hathaway had no involvement with the enterprise whatever. Thus neither side in this dispute earned top marks for precision. Readers may judge for themselves which of the two errors was more misleading."

That's what passes for a caustic remark from Evans. Readers will judge for themselves how appropriate was Evans sarcasm when learning that the AUCPE, the organization to which Brunauer was connected, had, in fact, never "been cited as a Communist-front organization" by HUAC, and that Hathaway had, in fact, never been involved in it at all. The common speculation is that McCarthy may have confused her organization with another, the Union of Concerted Peace Efforts, which had been cited by HUAC as a front, and did have Hathaway as a leader. Whatever the case may be, there, though (and it's probably just as likely that McCarthy intentionally chose to exploit the similarly named orgs in making his case, figuring no one would ever know the difference), the fact is that what Brunauer said was correct, what McCarthy had charged was a lie, and Evans knowingly lies in his comments on the matter in order to "defend" McCarthy. We can ascertain this last because the facts regarding this accusation aren't new--they were detailed in "McCarthy and His Enemies," a McCarthy apology written all the way back in 1954 by William F. Buckley and Brent Bozell. Evans has read that book; he references it throughout in his own. He read it, so he knew the truth, and chose to lie.

That's the "scholarship" on display in this latest McCarthy apology.
__________________
" Only a fool would try to deprive working men and working women of the right to join the union of their choice" ... infamous commie President Dwight D Eisenhower





" I thank God for my stupidity" ---- eyer

" In my world females are 2nd rate humans " --- JAMESBJOHNSON

"I would rape badbabysitter for being such a pussy about being raped." ---Lancecastor

"All that matters is we agree with Lt that this survey shows men are morally superior to women, but there is nothing misogynistic about that." --- bronzeage

"The natural order of things is for women to quit work and do the dishes." ---LT
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 07:30 PM   #94
RobDownSouth
Pointing the way...
 
RobDownSouth's Avatar
 
RobDownSouth is offline
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 27,185
Quote:
Originally Posted by vetteman View Post
Maybe it was McCarthy who was the Rino, after all he was a great friend of the Kennedy's and was the god father of Bobby Kenndey's first born. Try that on for size.
You know, we've come to expect a certain level of Schultzian "I know nuthink! NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNuthink!" from you.

Every once in a while, though, you come up with a bit of revisionism so dishonest, so outlandishly false, that I seriously wonder exactly how much brain damage you sustained from not getting enough oxygen at birth.

The above post should be admitted as evidence if and when any of your three surviving boys (Zsa Zsa, Eva and/or Magda) ever attempt to gain conservatorship over you (not unlike Brittany Spears) to prevent you from doing further damage to yourself.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 07:32 PM   #95
vetteman
Forged In Fire
 
vetteman's Avatar
 
vetteman is offline
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 110,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDownSouth View Post
You know, we've come to expect a certain level of Schultzian "I know nuthink! NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNuthink!" from you.

Every once in a while, though, you come up with a bit of revisionism so dishonest, so outlandishly false, that I seriously wonder exactly how much brain damage you sustained from not getting enough oxygen at birth.

The above post should be admitted as evidence if and when any of your three surviving boys (Zsa Zsa, Eva and/or Magda) ever attempt to gain conservatorship over you (not unlike Brittany Spears) to prevent you from doing further damage to yourself.
Are you going to maintain it's not true?
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 07:33 PM   #96
badbabysitter
Vault Girl
 
badbabysitter's Avatar
 
badbabysitter is offline
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: eating pussy
Posts: 13,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by vetteman View Post
Are you going to maintain it's not true?
Evans is lying... yet you defend him as the truth
__________________
" Only a fool would try to deprive working men and working women of the right to join the union of their choice" ... infamous commie President Dwight D Eisenhower





" I thank God for my stupidity" ---- eyer

" In my world females are 2nd rate humans " --- JAMESBJOHNSON

"I would rape badbabysitter for being such a pussy about being raped." ---Lancecastor

"All that matters is we agree with Lt that this survey shows men are morally superior to women, but there is nothing misogynistic about that." --- bronzeage

"The natural order of things is for women to quit work and do the dishes." ---LT
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 07:36 PM   #97
vetteman
Forged In Fire
 
vetteman's Avatar
 
vetteman is offline
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 110,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by badbabysitter View Post
Evans is lying... yet you defend him as the truth
I said that Evans didn't. You wouldn't know one way or the other.
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 07:37 PM   #98
vetteman
Forged In Fire
 
vetteman's Avatar
 
vetteman is offline
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 110,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by badbabysitter View Post
Evans is lying... yet you defend him as the truth
Are you going to maintain that what I said is a lie?
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 07:39 PM   #99
vetteman
Forged In Fire
 
vetteman's Avatar
 
vetteman is offline
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 110,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDownSouth View Post
You know, we've come to expect a certain level of Schultzian "I know nuthink! NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNuthink!" from you.

Every once in a while, though, you come up with a bit of revisionism so dishonest, so outlandishly false, that I seriously wonder exactly how much brain damage you sustained from not getting enough oxygen at birth.

The above post should be admitted as evidence if and when any of your three surviving boys (Zsa Zsa, Eva and/or Magda) ever attempt to gain conservatorship over you (not unlike Brittany Spears) to prevent you from doing further damage to yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badbabysitter View Post
Evans is lying... yet you defend him as the truth
Well assholes, I'm waiting. Did I lie?
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2012, 07:44 PM   #100
vetteman
Forged In Fire
 
vetteman's Avatar
 
vetteman is offline
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 110,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDownSouth View Post
You know, we've come to expect a certain level of Schultzian "I know nuthink! NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNuthink!" from you.

Every once in a while, though, you come up with a bit of revisionism so dishonest, so outlandishly false, that I seriously wonder exactly how much brain damage you sustained from not getting enough oxygen at birth.

The above post should be admitted as evidence if and when any of your three surviving boys (Zsa Zsa, Eva and/or Magda) ever attempt to gain conservatorship over you (not unlike Brittany Spears) to prevent you from doing further damage to yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badbabysitter View Post
Evans is lying... yet you defend him as the truth
Here, suck on this for a while:

McCarthy established a bond with the powerful Kennedy family, which had high visibility among Catholics. McCarthy became a close friend of Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr., himself a fervent anti-Communist, and was a frequent guest at the Kennedy compound in Hyannis Port. He dated two of Kennedy's daughters, Patricia and Eunice,[48][49] and was godfather to Robert F. Kennedy's first child, Kathleen Kennedy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:17 AM.

Copyright 1998-2007 Literotica Online. Literotica is a registered trademark.