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Old 12-10-2012, 09:54 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancecastor View Post
So far, that has not been the case.

I am hardly a wall-flower, but I found myself thinking that a thread like this might be fun on the old BDSM Forum.

My bad, I should have looked first...had I done so, I would have realized that there's just as must pre-emptive first strike attacking going on here as on the GB.

Over there, it's expected.

Over here...well, I did expect better. (silly me!)
I call BS. If you expected better... you'd have led with the story instead of a teaser. I think you got just what you wanted.

And, at this point, I personally say that "story or it never happened" let alone expecting pics.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:58 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Loverskitten View Post
Well as women, we are wired for commitment... It sucks, I know. But our bodies release "attachment" hormones during sex, especially with orgasm. Also have you read the article on Fet about the study done on how women stay by terminally ill husbands and if the woman is the one who is sick the husband splits. It was done on cancer patients. It made me really sad. But it's true.

An hour or two isn't enough for us. We need care, love, trust, and all that bullshit. Think about why there are so many strip clubs. Geee how many male strip clubs are there?
Um, a lot? 'Cause men like to look at men too? Cause - Chippendales remains absurd business?

Look into "host bars" in Asia. Plenty of demand for the illusion of romance.

I think people tend to fixate on a valid biological fact in order to reassert the order of things, no matter how much goes against that conclusion.

Like in regard to that study - ok that sucks. I want to know how the curve goes including F/F and especially M/M partnerships in which a partner is ill. Maybe, knowing how many M/M couples faced the AIDS crisis together to the end, the problem isn't men, but marriage.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:07 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancecastor View Post
So far, that has not been the case.

I am hardly a wall-flower, but I found myself thinking that a thread like this might be fun on the old BDSM Forum.

My bad, I should have looked first...had I done so, I would have realized that there's just as must pre-emptive first strike attacking going on here as on the GB.

Over there, it's expected.

Over here...well, I did expect better. (silly me!)
What exactly were you expecting?

A bunch of people sitting around your feet in wide eyed wonderment saying "Pweese unky Lancecastor, tell us a storwy" and a round of awe-plause on your almighty domliness?

If you'd just posted the story , instead of claiming to be the dom messiah, you probably wouldn't have copped as much shit.

And people here have intense discussions with varying opinions all the time. It's not aimed at you personally and goodness knows I've had to learn not to take shit so personally here too.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:10 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by knot_sweet View Post
What exactly were you expecting?

A bunch of people sitting around your feet in wide eyed wonderment saying "Pweese unky Lancecastor, tell us a storwy" and a round of awe-plause on your almighty domliness?

If you'd just posted the story , instead of claiming to be the dom messiah, you probably wouldn't have copped as much shit.

And people here have intense discussions with varying opinions all the time. It's not aimed at you personally and goodness knows I've had to learn not to take shit so personally here too.
Seriously. This is hardly a megahuman display of sack you're showing, and yet...
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:13 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancecastor View Post
So far, that has not been the case.

I am hardly a wall-flower, but I found myself thinking that a thread like this might be fun on the old BDSM Forum.

My bad, I should have looked first...had I done so, I would have realized that there's just as must pre-emptive first strike attacking going on here as on the GB.

Over there, it's expected.

Over here...well, I did expect better. (silly me!)
You've learned some very bad habits over there on the garbage board, and brought them with you.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:17 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Netzach View Post
Seriously. This is hardly a megahuman display of sack you're showing, and yet...
Meh, I'm cranky and taking it out on someone who's irritating me and doesn't require any sack aside from one containing a shitty night's sleep and a less than zero care factor about making myself look like a bitchy asshole.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:38 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Netzach View Post
Um, a lot? 'Cause men like to look at men too? Cause - Chippendales remains absurd business?

Look into "host bars" in Asia. Plenty of demand for the illusion of romance.

I think people tend to fixate on a valid biological fact in order to reassert the order of things, no matter how much goes against that conclusion.

Like in regard to that study - ok that sucks. I want to know how the curve goes including F/F and especially M/M partnerships in which a partner is ill. Maybe, knowing how many M/M couples faced the AIDS crisis together to the end, the problem isn't men, but marriage.
Well, there is scientific proof of the hormone release a woman experiences.
And I was mostly commenting on Stella's remark about why women can't have a bit of time, but need more. Men and women are just different. Ok how many "gentleman's clubs" are there verses "male reviews" (is that the right word?) I bet it's easily 1000 to 1. Admittedly, I didn't take into consideration gay clubs because it was sort of a gender comment to which, I was referring.

I really should find the link to that article. A woman posted it with the question of wether submissive/slave men would be more likely to stick with their partners. The article was depressing but made me think. Also brought up all the feelings I had watching this happen with my parents.
I wish there was more study on gay partners, but with current laws, that's probably not possible. Hopefully that'll change. One needs their loved ones by their side.
You bring a valid point about M/M relationships especially during that time. PBS (i believe) did a doccumentary about the AIDS breakout in San Fran. It's one of the saddest things I've watched. Maybe the problem isn't men, but straight men? Sorry guys *ducks and hides*
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:47 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Lancecastor View Post
So far, that has not been the case.

I am hardly a wall-flower, but I found myself thinking that a thread like this might be fun on the old BDSM Forum.

My bad, I should have looked first...had I done so, I would have realized that there's just as must pre-emptive first strike attacking going on here as on the GB.

Over there, it's expected.

Over here...well, I did expect better. (silly me!)
You are the whiniest "Dom" ever.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:51 AM   #84
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I'm having a bit of ADHD with this thread. Too many posts I want to address, and I'm on this tiny phone grrr
I do appreciate how this thread has morphed.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:30 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Loverskitten View Post
You are the whiniest "Dom" ever.
No... he's not. I'd say he's a typical example of a subset of Dom-- the whiny Dom.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:39 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Loverskitten View Post
Well, there is scientific proof of the hormone release a woman experiences.
And I was mostly commenting on Stella's remark about why women can't have a bit of time, but need more. Men and women are just different.<snip>
*
Man I hate statements like these.

1)Which hormone was released? Has this research been replicated? What are the peer reviews saying? Isn't there scientific proof of hormone release men men as well? (as amatter of fact, there is)


2) There are greater variations within these extremely large groups, then there are variations between the two groups. In other words, More women are more different from each other, than women are different from men. More men are more different from each other, than men are different from women.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:53 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
2) There are greater variations within these extremely large groups, then there are variations between the two groups. In other words, More women are more different from each other, than women are different from men. More men are more different from each other, than men are different from women.
I have to respectfully disagree here, Stella. Cultural "nurture" influences aside, there are biological factors, with sound studies to prove them, that show significant differences between the genders. Right down to something as basic as vision.

On a personal level, I've traveled in a variety of social circles, in several different cultures and I have definitely noticed distinct male and female traits that carry through, consistently, in the majority of men and women.

I dislike gender stereotypes but I'd be a fool not to acknowledge there is some validity in their source. Even when I was doing stunts, there was a noticeable difference between the way most women approached a gag versus the way most men approached it.

Now, just how much of our differences are cultural and how much are biological is the big question, but the differences exist. Without hard data, my guess would be that the differences between genders is more likely equal or greater than the differences within genders.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:02 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
And here I was thinking that it's because we feel guilty spending money on something so evanescent as an hour of time, and also so unladylike as sexual attention.
Oh, honey, have you SEEN the "pro doms" of the world? *shudder*

I'll take my chances with a vibrator.

Also, knotsweet, my dear, you just gave me my new favorite word: awe-plause.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:03 AM   #89
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I have to respectfully disagree here, Stella. Cultural "nurture" influences aside, there are biological factors, with sound studies to prove them, that show significant differences between the genders. Right down to something as basic as vision.

On a personal level, I've traveled in a variety of social circles, in several different cultures and I have definitely noticed distinct male and female traits that carry through, consistently, in the majority of men and women.

I dislike gender stereotypes but I'd be a fool not to acknowledge there is some validity in their source. Even when I was doing stunts, there was a noticeable difference between the way most women approached a gag versus the way most men approached it.

Now, just how much of our differences are cultural and how much are biological is the big question, but the differences exist. Without hard data, my guess would be that the differences between genders is more likely equal or greater than the differences within genders.
Thank you muchly for a very kind calling of my peevishness.

All the same, although women might approach the process a little bit differently than men-- I think a lot of women would really like to have a regularly scheduled session with a professional that they knew was trustworthy. The whole issue of societal support for such a thing-- women would have to grow up knowing how to comport themselves if they choose to hire, the way men grow up knowing you don't fall in love with your favorite prostitute. (and even so, sometimes men do, after all)

IMO, the biggest hurdle beyond the vast lack of societal precedent, is the equally vast societal expectation that women put everything else before their sexual pleasure.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:16 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Keroin View Post
I have to respectfully disagree here, Stella. Cultural "nurture" influences aside, there are biological factors, with sound studies to prove them, that show significant differences between the genders. Right down to something as basic as vision.

On a personal level, I've traveled in a variety of social circles, in several different cultures and I have definitely noticed distinct male and female traits that carry through, consistently, in the majority of men and women.

I dislike gender stereotypes but I'd be a fool not to acknowledge there is some validity in their source. Even when I was doing stunts, there was a noticeable difference between the way most women approached a gag versus the way most men approached it.

Now, just how much of our differences are cultural and how much are biological is the big question, but the differences exist. Without hard data, my guess would be that the differences between genders is more likely equal or greater than the differences within genders.
I'd be an idiot to not agree that generally this is how it plays out. But we're also looking for it to play out that way and ignoring some interesting and problematic developments. Really. Look at the "host bars" and the way they're run, look at sex tourism involving western women, a growing trend.

It's much too easy to keep returning to a biochemical difference, which definitely varies greatly individual to individual, testing the same populations over and over to come up with universal findings, and just sitting back completely content with the data that supports assumptions.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:18 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post

IMO, the biggest hurdle beyond the vast lack of societal precedent, is the equally vast societal expectation that women put everything else before their sexual pleasure.

Annnd...when they don't nobody is bothering to pay attention because they never do. Except...they do.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:53 AM   #92
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Annnd...when they don't nobody is bothering to pay attention because they never do. Except...they do.
Well, I do-- I have-- and it has always been with great effort that I could give myself permission to do so. Especially when I had a family-- leaving them for other reasons like jobs or shopping or shit was more or less okay, but leaving them for a booty call? That took guts. And a kind of forced selfishness. I'm just saying.

What is a host bar?
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:58 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
Thank you muchly for a very kind calling of my peevishness.
Any time.

Quote:
All the same, although women might approach the process a little bit differently than men-- I think a lot of women would really like to have a regularly scheduled session with a professional that they knew was trustworthy. The whole issue of societal support for such a thing-- women would have to grow up knowing how to comport themselves if they choose to hire, the way men grow up knowing you don't fall in love with your favorite prostitute. (and even so, sometimes men do, after all)

IMO, the biggest hurdle beyond the vast lack of societal precedent, is the equally vast societal expectation that women put everything else before their sexual pleasure.
Were I single at this point in my life and could simply hire someone to take care of my sexual/BDSM needs with no strings attached? I'd be in like Flynn! Does society support that? No, not so much. So, yes, it would be fantastic if that could change.

Of course, I say all that as a woman who has enjoyed a happy, long term relationship where her needs have been met. I wouldn't need attachment because I've had it, and for all its wonderfulness I now know that attachment involves a lot of personal sacrifices on both sides. Well, on both sides for my idea of a happy partnership, lol.

I do agree that many of our attitudes toward sex are cultural. I have a Czech friend who finds our N. American "prudishness" baffling and funny. And, speaking of cultural gender weirdness, last week, for no discernible reason, I decided to flip through cable TV on my lunch breaks. Apparently there are enough women out there who find it "normal" to spend over 5K on a wedding dress that they can make TV shows about it?! WTH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netzach View Post
I'd be an idiot to not agree that generally this is how it plays out. But we're also looking for it to play out that way and ignoring some interesting and problematic developments. Really. Look at the "host bars" and the way they're run, look at sex tourism involving western women, a growing trend.

It's much too easy to keep returning to a biochemical difference, which definitely varies greatly individual to individual, testing the same populations over and over to come up with universal findings, and just sitting back completely content with the data that supports assumptions.
Well, which brings us back to the cultural aspect of gender expectations = self-fulfilling prophesy. If we could raise a group of human males and females completely outside of society with no predetermined roles or influences, it would be interesting to see what would happen. Obviously, we can't do that. The biomechanical stuff may only be one piece of the puzzle but I'd rather look to that for tangible differences than the old "math is hard, let's go shopping!" model.

Stella put up that article recently about the difference between how men and women debate, and how society reacts to those differences, which was brilliant.

As a side note - when I read about the latest study in colour perception differences between males and females, I laughed. For example, I am constantly amazed at what L will call "blue" (usually in the mid-tone range, as per the study), which is clearly NOT blue. Not only that, but most of my female friends would concur that what he saw as blue was not blue to them. So, in this instance, the biomechanical simply answered my question, "Why do we see colours differently?"

No value judgment attached, just a scientifically measurable difference between genders.
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:09 AM   #94
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What I know the most about, regarding sex-based differences is from the trans community. people who are transitioning from male to female will tell you that an enormous array of sensory input has just opened up to them-- sound, taste, sight-- and a wider range of emotions. They become better at reading expression.

People who are transitioning from female to male will tell you that everything seems simpler-- hierarchal systems are easier to navigate (of course, those systems ARE designed by men FOR men in the first place) and they acquire a non stop porn film running in their brains for the first couple of years that takes some getting used to.

This very consistent story is one of the things that kind of helped me decide not to transition, BTW-- I only recently got the emotional array and the reading expressions stuff working for me, and it took a lot of work. I don't want to give it up now that I have it-- it's so much nicer for the people around me, I think.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:54 AM   #95
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What exactly were you expecting?

A bunch of people sitting around your feet in wide eyed wonderment saying "Pweese unky Lancecastor, tell us a storwy" and a round of awe-plause on your almighty domliness?

If you'd just posted the story , instead of claiming to be the dom messiah, you probably wouldn't have copped as much shit.

And people here have intense discussions with varying opinions all the time. It's not aimed at you personally and goodness knows I've had to learn not to take shit so personally here too.


Yes, some wide-eyed wonderment would have been appropriate.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:59 AM   #96
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What is a host bar?
Here ya go Stella

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_...lubs#section_2

This line "A women's studies professor explained the phenomenon by Japanese men's lack of true listening to the problems of women", reminds me of the porn for women, Jack developed on 30 Rock. Lol!
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:10 PM   #97
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What I know the most about, regarding sex-based differences is from the trans community. people who are transitioning from male to female will tell you that an enormous array of sensory input has just opened up to them-- sound, taste, sight-- and a wider range of emotions. They become better at reading expression.

People who are transitioning from female to male will tell you that everything seems simpler-- hierarchal systems are easier to navigate (of course, those systems ARE designed by men FOR men in the first place) and they acquire a non stop porn film running in their brains for the first couple of years that takes some getting used to.

This very consistent story is one of the things that kind of helped me decide not to transition, BTW-- I only recently got the emotional array and the reading expressions stuff working for me, and it took a lot of work. I don't want to give it up now that I have it-- it's so much nicer for the people around me, I think.
Fascinating stuff and something I'd never considered. What's interesting to me is that if we are aware of our gender differences, we can actually learn how to communicate and behave in ways that lessen the gap.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:35 PM   #98
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Here ya go Stella

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_...lubs#section_2

This line "A women's studies professor explained the phenomenon by Japanese men's lack of true listening to the problems of women", reminds me of the porn for women, Jack developed on 30 Rock. Lol!
Huh.

I don't see any sexual pleasure there.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:46 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
Thank you muchly for a very kind calling of my peevishness.

All the same, although women might approach the process a little bit differently than men-- I think a lot of women would really like to have a regularly scheduled session with a professional that they knew was trustworthy. The whole issue of societal support for such a thing-- women would have to grow up knowing how to comport themselves if they choose to hire, the way men grow up knowing you don't fall in love with your favorite prostitute. (and even so, sometimes men do, after all)

IMO, the biggest hurdle beyond the vast lack of societal precedent, is the equally vast societal expectation that women put everything else before their sexual pleasure.
I think when it comes to women's sexuality Stella is right, that the reason women don't, for example, feel comfortable paying for sex is to a large extent societal, the whole history of women's sexuality has been very much in a 'support' role behind men's, the old victorian story about the mother telling her daughter to close her eyes and do it for the king had a lot of truth up until not all that long ago. I had several friends of mine who were pro dommes, and I asked them about women coming in to play, and they said it is was ironic, it wasn't because it was female to female or because it was bd/sm, it was that the women felt guilty about doing something for themselves, that when they asked afterwords how they were doing the women would say the biggest aspect was spending money doing this, as if sex wasn't important.

Men and women are different in certain fundamental ways, I think hormones alone are a major cause of that, but there is also a lot of programming there, too,cultural and religious, that still causes women not to do what they might otherwise do. Women's sexuality has only achieved any kind of freedom in the last 50 years or so, and as time goes on it will be interesting to see what happens.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:51 PM   #100
njlauren
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Posts: 1,273
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
What I know the most about, regarding sex-based differences is from the trans community. people who are transitioning from male to female will tell you that an enormous array of sensory input has just opened up to them-- sound, taste, sight-- and a wider range of emotions. They become better at reading expression.

People who are transitioning from female to male will tell you that everything seems simpler-- hierarchal systems are easier to navigate (of course, those systems ARE designed by men FOR men in the first place) and they acquire a non stop porn film running in their brains for the first couple of years that takes some getting used to.

This very consistent story is one of the things that kind of helped me decide not to transition, BTW-- I only recently got the emotional array and the reading expressions stuff working for me, and it took a lot of work. I don't want to give it up now that I have it-- it's so much nicer for the people around me, I think.
What Stella said is dead spot on for M to F's, it is what I experienced when I was on HRT for a number of years. I had always been good at using intuition and reading people, but on the hormones that ability increased tremendously.My sense of smell was heightened, which always wasn't a good thing, when I would be on the bus with some clown wearing cologne it was pretty gross, I could almost tell you the components of what it was made of (IE alcohol, the remains of someone's ashtray, lizard gizzards and a touch of "Eau de Perth Amboy, NJ"). It changed a lot, it was a fundamental shift, and not all of it was a placebo effect because I felt happy being on HRT.
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