Vanilla Conversion

[Lancecastor]

Originally Posted by njlauren

BTW with the OP I am not surprised, he prob figured he would have a lot of people on here cheering him on, hip hip hurray and all that.

Yeah, that must be it.

There's no other possible explanation.

[JMohegan]

I believe all humans employ power & pain in the bedroom, albeit in degrees that vary widely. So the notion of this type of "conversion" doesn't make sense to me - even though all my partners have come from the allegedly vanilla pond.

Instead of a conversion, I see relationship development as a natural progression of sorts. Obviously, success depends on an appropriate matching of personalities and fundamental sexual wiring (whether labeled or not). But the same holds true for matching of ethics, senses of humor, etc.

[Stella_Omega]

Originally Posted by Lancecastor

Yeah, that must be it.

There's no other possible explanation.

OMG dude, can you be any more passive-aggressive!


Come on, you're letting the side down. Tell your story, please?

Please! Tell your story!

[JMohegan]

Originally Posted by Loverskitten

BUT, if anyone else would like to chime in on their experience introducing vanillas to BDSM. Please share. Thanks!

Here's advice I've given many times.

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost...&postcount=225

Defining "success" as increased enjoyment of power & pain dynamics by both parties in an established relationship, my general observation is that success rates are higher if neither partner is invested in cultural BDSM (the cultural fantasy factor of which is often quite high).

[JMohegan]

Originally Posted by Netzach

Yes. Relationship ending impasse. Whether I was top/bottom/voyeur - it was completely outside of his makeup and his abilities and it was deeply disturbing to him in any format that actually turned me on. Basically take the worst emotional suckitude of sexual incompatibility where people otherwise truly DO love one another, and pile it on. We were both early 20's - so the whole idea that it's not that important was untrue. It WAS that important.

Other experience that strikes me - myriad male clients whose "wife is a domme, but...." The but is either "but only up to a point" "but not in the way I fantasize about" but most commonly "but isn't as passionate about it / doesn't NEED it / is doing it for me and we both know it."

Also, I meet a lot of D/s couples where....you can tell that the guy is rising to the occasion to meet the needs
of the female sub. You can tell that her needs are the master of the relationship, no matter what the participants are saying. You can tell that if I pulled this guy aside and said "if I could wave a wand and just turn her into a mild bring me a beer and blow me kind of submissive would you want me to?" The answer would be "please." They have a tired vibe. I'd say these are converted vanillas, as close to that as I can fathom.

Netzach, if you and I had met at 20, found each other physically and intellectually attractive, and married because we were too inexperienced to know any better, it would have been a complete fucking train wreck. Not because of a vanilla/BDSM divide, but because we happen to be at absurdly mismatched points on the power spectrum.

The point I see is not that vanilla people exist and can't be "converted," but rather that mismatches suck, and will always suck, no matter how the participations self-label. Your last example is a great one, because the fact of the matter is that the so-called "submissive" is actually running the show.

[BiBunny]

I hadn't commented on this thread because I was reserving judgment until the story was told. Since said story doesn't appear to be forthcoming, I'll just throw in my 2 cents on the subject, anyway.

I think that the degree to which you can swing someone to the dark side depends on several things: the things you're actually into (rough sex vs. SM vs. D/s or whatever), the other person's personality, how "hardcore" (for lack of a better word) that you are, etc.

I think the level of intensity that the person doing the so-called "converting" has is arguably the most important part. Because, really, unless you're dating an extremely sheltered or unadventurous person, it does NOT take that much to get someone to try light bondage, spanking, hair-pulling, blindfolds, candle wax, body worship, vibrators, insertions, and so forth. And, usually, if you don't come on too strong with it, the other person will probably enjoy it, if for no other reason than he/she enjoys your reaction to it.

On the other hand, if you're into more intense stuff--drawing blood, leaving large bruises, extreme humiliation, very long and drawn-out "scenes" that are heavy on the psychodrama, having every little detail of your life micromanaged--then good luck. You probably won't be able to "turn" somebody onto all that unless they're already bent that way in the first place.

[JMohegan]

Originally Posted by BiBunny

I hadn't commented on this thread because I was reserving judgment until the story was told. Since said story doesn't appear to be forthcoming, I'll just throw in my 2 cents on the subject, anyway.

I think that the degree to which you can swing someone to the dark side depends on several things: the things you're actually into (rough sex vs. SM vs. D/s or whatever), the other person's personality, how "hardcore" (for lack of a better word) that you are, etc.

I think the level of intensity that the person doing the so-called "converting" has is arguably the most important part. Because, really, unless you're dating an extremely sheltered or unadventurous person, it does NOT take that much to get someone to try light bondage, spanking, hair-pulling, blindfolds, candle wax, body worship, vibrators, insertions, and so forth. And, usually, if you don't come on too strong with it, the other person will probably enjoy it, if for no other reason than he/she enjoys your reaction to it.

On the other hand, if you're into more intense stuff--drawing blood, leaving large bruises, extreme humiliation, very long and drawn-out "scenes" that are heavy on the psychodrama, having every little detail of your life micromanaged--then good luck. You probably won't be able to "turn" somebody onto all that unless they're already bent that way in the first place.

It's harder to find a good match, the farther out you are on the spectrum. That's true.

But it also matters who's doing what to whom. To some of us, it matters quite a lot.

[BiBunny]

Originally Posted by JMohegan

It's harder to find a good match, the farther out you are on the spectrum. That's true.

But it also matters who's doing what to whom. To some of us, it matters quite a lot.

Oh, yes, I agree.

[Netzach]

....valid points all...and yet to some of us, it still just MATTERS no matter who's doing what or how pink and cute that dildo is! Maybe it's trauma, maybe its religion, maybe it's just finding all this stuff laughably stupid, but whatever it is, it is not for someone else to decide it's there to be broken down.

I'm definitely an arrogant ass, but at this point in my life, I am the arbiter of no one else's idea of fun. This much I know. Some people won't ever eat the mysterious pig and cow parts I chow down on at my most favorite Vietnamese food haunt on earth. I'm not smarter because of that.

I'm totally thrilled that people can find common ground, but again, you're starting out on the same relative planet of sexuality to one another.

[Netzach]

Originally Posted by JMohegan

Netzach, if you and I had met at 20, found each other physically and intellectually attractive, and married because we were too inexperienced to know any better, it would have been a complete fucking train wreck. Not because of a vanilla/BDSM divide, but because we happen to be at absurdly mismatched points on the power spectrum.

The point I see is not that vanilla people exist and can't be "converted," but rather that mismatches suck, and will always suck, no matter how the participations self-label. Your last example is a great one, because the fact of the matter is that the so-called "submissive" is actually running the show.

Well, the sad part is that it's not the topping from the bottom objective of the sub in a lot of cases either - I was being pretty literal about it - in that her needs run the behaviors of both parties, even though neither is probably always that happy about it. It's a weird dynamic.

[JMohegan]

Originally Posted by Netzach

....valid points all...and yet to some of us, it still just MATTERS no matter who's doing what or how pink and cute that dildo is! Maybe it's trauma, maybe its religion, maybe it's just finding all this stuff laughably stupid, but whatever it is, it is not for someone else to decide it's there to be broken down.

I'm definitely an arrogant ass, but at this point in my life, I am the arbiter of no one else's idea of fun. This much I know. Some people won't ever eat the mysterious pig and cow parts I chow down on at my most favorite Vietnamese food haunt on earth. I'm not smarter because of that.

I'm totally thrilled that people can find common ground, but again, you're starting out on the same relative planet of sexuality to one another.

For the record, I've never thought of myself as smarter than my partners. I think of myself as the one in charge. The Decider - ha! Isn't that what you once called me? W jokes aside, it fits.

Control gets me off; everything else is details.

[Stella_Omega]

Originally Posted by Netzach

Well, the sad part is that it's not the topping from the bottom objective of the sub in a lot of cases either - I was being pretty literal about it - in that her needs run the behaviors of both parties, even though neither is probably always that happy about it. It's a weird dynamic.

Or maybe she ends up taking a hike.

Why is it so difficult for women to simply purchase an hour or two of someone's time and attention?

[Keroin]

Compatibility. Yep.

[Lancecastor]

Originally Posted by njlauren

Interesting that you cannot back up what you said....<snip>

You are incorrect.

I most certainly can back up what I say. :-)

I choose not to at this time...bad audience.

[Primalex]

Originally Posted by marieR19

he raped her soul. He forced her to become something she wasn't, because *he* didn't want her to be vanilla.

Well, worded this way.......

HOT

That's SICK.

That's why I hate to mix ethics and sex.

[Stella_Omega]

Originally Posted by Lancecastor

You are incorrect.

I most certainly can back up what I say. :-)

I choose not to at this time...bad audience.

What's a good audience? .

[Ropebunny]

Originally Posted by Lancecastor

You are incorrect.

I most certainly can back up what I say. :-)

I choose not to at this time...bad audience.

We are a good audience. We're listening. You may not get a standing ovation (and may even get boo-ed off stage) but we'll shuddup and listen first.

[marieR19]

I think a "good audience" is one who expresses absolutely no negative opinions about the vague posts, and will hang onto every word he says no matter what. (Since, from what he has said, it sounds like he suddenly doesn't want to tell us because we are suddenly a "bad audience" even though he posted here to being with.)

[Loverskitten]

Originally Posted by Stella_Omega

Or maybe she ends up taking a hike.

Why is it so difficult for women to simply purchase an hour or two of someone's time and attention?

Well as women, we are wired for commitment... It sucks, I know. But our bodies release "attachment" hormones during sex, especially with orgasm. Also have you read the article on Fet about the study done on how women stay by terminally ill husbands and if the woman is the one who is sick the husband splits. It was done on cancer patients. It made me really sad. But it's true.

An hour or two isn't enough for us. We need care, love, trust, and all that bullshit. Think about why there are so many strip clubs. Geee how many male strip clubs are there?

[Loverskitten]

And that comes from a terrified of commitment, self sufficient, bitch.

[LiterallyAngel]

Originally Posted by Stella_Omega

OMG dude, can you be any more passive-aggressive!


Come on, you're letting the side down. Tell your story, please?

Please! Tell your story!

Stella you asked so nicely too! If I had a story to tell, I'd be the first to tell you. Though I don't do much with plain vanilla, I like all the sprinkles and whipped cream...

[Stella_Omega]

Originally Posted by Loverskitten

Well as women, we are wired for commitment... It sucks, I know. But our bodies release "attachment" hormones during sex, especially with orgasm. Also have you read the article on Fet about the study done on how women stay by terminally ill husbands and if the woman is the one who is sick the husband splits. It was done on cancer patients. It made me really sad. But it's true.

An hour or two isn't enough for us. We need care, love, trust, and all that bullshit. Think about why there are so many strip clubs. Geee how many male strip clubs are there?

And here I was thinking that it's because we feel guilty spending money on something so evanescent as an hour of time, and also so unladylike as sexual attention.

[Red Sonja]

Originally Posted by Stella_Omega

And here I was thinking that it's because we feel guilty spending money on something so evanescent as an hour of time, and also so unladylike as sexual attention.

I gotta say... I think Stella's got it right... and I also gotta say how blessed I am to not have this dilemma. *knocks on formica that it may always stay this way*

[knot_sweet]

Originally Posted by Stella_Omega

And here I was thinking that it's because we feel guilty spending money on something so evanescent as an hour of time, and also so unladylike as sexual attention.

Have paid for both vanilla and BDSM sex. Strangely enough, or perhaps not so strangely, I found myself doing the topping thing with the vanilla guy. I wanted to pleasure him more than I
wanted my own orgasm. Of course, this made things awkward, him being the professional and all. We ended up having a beer and a laugh about his erection (viagra).

With the professional Dom, I safed. I couldn't relax enough to enjoy it. Massive trust issues and I should have known better, but when you get the itch and don't do casual one night bDSM hook ups from the club/bar, you're not left with a lot of options.

[Lancecastor]

Originally Posted by Ropebunny

We are a good audience. We're listening. You may not get a standing ovation (and may even get boo-ed off stage) but we'll shuddup and listen first.

So far, that has not been the case.

I am hardly a wall-flower, but I found myself thinking that a thread like this might be fun on the old BDSM Forum.

My bad, I should have looked first...had I done so, I would have realized that there's just as must pre-emptive first strike attacking going on here as on the GB.

Over there, it's expected.

Over here...well, I did expect better. (silly me!)