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Old 11-08-2012, 09:49 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
Obama is a moderate, and some of his policies are somewhat conservative. He just doesn't look like one because the right wing has shifted so insanely far toward fascism.
You dont understand fascism. Learn a little about the subject and lets talk again.

For the rest, fascism is monarchy, that is, an uber nationalist government with an unelected head of state.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:29 AM   #52
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Yes JB, there is going to be a black man in the White House for another four years. And he was elected by the people and for the people. Too bad you don't understand that.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:58 AM   #53
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Yes JB, there is going to be a black man in the White House for another four years. And he was elected by the people and for the people. Too bad you don't understand that.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:00 PM   #54
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Don't you wish.

And you're the AH's pet troll.

Are we even now?
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:14 PM   #55
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You dont understand fascism. Learn a little about the subject and lets talk again.

For the rest, fascism is monarchy, that is, an uber nationalist government with an unelected head of state.
Yes, that's exactly what Fascism is. That's exactly what I meant when I said it.

Anyway-- congrats Obama!
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:26 PM   #56
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I write about 1857 and am more familiar with the (then) newly-created Republican Party and what they stood for, rather than what it has become. Therefore, here is a little history of the GOP from Wiki.

"Founded in the Northern states in 1854 by anti-slavery activists, modernizers, ex-Whigs and ex-Free Soilers, the Republican Party quickly became the principal opposition to the dominant Southern Democratic Party and the briefly popular Know Nothing Party. The main cause was opposition to the Kansas–Nebraska Act, which repealed the Missouri Compromise by which slavery was kept out of Kansas. The Northern Republicans saw the expansion of slavery as a great evil. The first public meeting where the name "Republican" was suggested for a new anti-slavery party was held on March 20, 1854 in a schoolhouse in Ripon, Wisconsin.

The first official party convention was held on July 6, 1854 in Jackson, Michigan. By 1858, the Republicans dominated nearly all Northern states. The Republican Party first came to power in 1860 with the election of Lincoln to the Presidency and Republicans in control of Congress and again, the Northern states. It oversaw the saving of the union, the end of slavery, and the provision of equal rights to all men in the American Civil War and Reconstruction, 1861-1877.

The Republicans' initial base was in the Northeast and the upper Midwest. With the realignment of parties and voters in the Third Party System, the strong run of John C. Fremont in the 1856 Presidential election demonstrated it dominated most northern states.

Early Republican ideology was reflected in the 1856 slogan "free labor, free land, free men", which had been coined by Salmon P. Chase, a Senator from Ohio (and future Secretary of the Treasury and Chief Justice of the United States). "Free labor" referred to the Republican opposition to slave labor and belief in independent artisans and businessmen. "Free land" referred to Republican opposition to plantation system whereby the rich could buy up all the good farm land and work it with slaves, leaving the yeoman independent farmers the leftovers. The Party strived to contain the expansion of slavery, which would cause the collapse of the slave power and the expansion of freedom."
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:33 PM   #57
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And so goes history, Allard, for "free" became "mine for the taking, and everyone else be damned."

At any rate, congratulations to Obama; I'm honoured to have contributed my vote. Now, if only the other side would recognize that we not only have to, but want to, work together for the common good.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:12 PM   #58
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Don't you wish.

And you're the AH's pet troll.

Are we even now?
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:17 PM   #59
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All I have to say is I hope you enjoy the next four years of the Feds trying to repress religious freedom and getting sued for their efforts.

At least up here everyone respects our religious freedoms (except for a small minority but we let the police deal with them under the hate laws and other criminal offenses). Even our judges understand our freedoms and rebuke the government when they cross the line!
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:20 PM   #60
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All I have to say is I hope you enjoy the next four years of the Feds trying to repress religious freedom and getting sued for their efforts.

At least up here everyone respects our religious freedoms (except for a small minority but we let the police deal with them under the hate laws and other criminal offenses). Even our judges understand our freedoms and rebuke the government when they cross the line!
What are you talking about? Westboro Baptist Church can still picket military funerals, and if anything should be banned it's that. No one is trying to repress religious freedom. That sounds like the wack-jobs over at the NRA saying Obama's coming for your guns. Scare tactics based on ignorance and stupidity.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:26 PM   #61
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Then you haven't heard about the lawsuits trying to stop Obamacare from forcing Christian businesses to fund abortions and birth control in their employee health plans? Too bad... you need to pay more attention!

Or how about the lawsuits that are preventing cities from making free Christian health clinics to display pro-abortion wording inside?

If that isn't treading on religious liberty and free speech, I don't know what is!
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:32 PM   #62
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Then you haven't heard about the lawsuits trying to stop Obamacare from forcing Christian businesses to fund abortions and birth control in their employee health plans? Too bad... you need to pay more attention!

Or how about the lawsuits that are preventing cities from making free Christian health clinics to display pro-abortion wording inside?

If that isn't treading on religious liberty and free speech, I don't know what is!
This is not a freedom of religion issue, it's a straight up healthcare issue. No one's telling them to STOP attending church, forcing them to attend another. That's freedom of religion. This is just a business issue, someone just doesn't want to pay for birth control, and that's it.

The lawusits for the Christian clinics are just idiotic. Seriously, just plain stupid.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:35 PM   #63
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sorry topace, but that post was just too complicated for me to understand. can you explain again what you are complaining about ?

Anyway, I'm not sure whether to congratulate Obama or feel sorry for him.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:14 PM   #64
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Anyway, I'm not sure whether to congratulate Obama or feel sorry for him.
Both, of course. My feeling going into his first term election was who wanted to have to clean up this mess? If nothing else, I was sure it would bring the crazies out of the woodwork (which obviously it has. And I too, have been sitting here trying to imagine what religious freedoms are now going to be jerked from us. If that's going to happen, I'll all in favor of starting at knocking snake handler priests up the side of the head to listen to the rattle.)
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:50 PM   #65
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Then you haven't heard about the lawsuits trying to stop Obamacare from forcing Christian businesses to fund abortions and birth control in their employee health plans? Too bad... you need to pay more attention!

Or how about the lawsuits that are preventing cities from making free Christian health clinics to display pro-abortion wording inside?

If that isn't treading on religious liberty and free speech, I don't know what is!
I was wondering what you were blabbering about.

Maybe you're still a virgin because you believe that women don't deserve to make their own choices. Ever think of that? Besides. The church doesn't pay taxes. It wont hurt religious organizations to shell up a little extra. They can beg for money.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:03 PM   #66
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I was wondering what you were blabbering about.

Maybe you're still a virgin because you believe that women don't deserve to make their own choices. Ever think of that? Besides. The church doesn't pay taxes. It wont hurt religious organizations to shell up a little extra. They can beg for money.
He's talking about business owner who say they're Christians, so they don't believe in having to pay for birth control and abortions. I think it's a total bs notion, to use your beliefs to get out of something you don't want to pay for, therefore raising your profit margin. And as a Christian, money should NEVER be the factor in anything you do. It's a sin to be greedy.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:05 PM   #67
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Both, of course. My feeling going into his first term election was who wanted to have to clean up this mess? If nothing else, I was sure it would bring the crazies out of the woodwork (which obviously it has. And I too, have been sitting here trying to imagine what religious freedoms are now going to be jerked from us. If that's going to happen, I'll all in favor of starting at knocking snake handler priests up the side of the head to listen to the rattle.)
Why feel sorry for him? It *is* his/their mess. Was he not a Senator? Did he not vote to spend money we didn't have? Was he not President for the last four years? Did he not sign laws spending money we didn't have? Did he not give orders that spend U.S. blood, sweat, tears, and treasure? He and his ilk, that is Democrats and Republicans, have put the United States in a pretty bad state of economic and trade imbalance. The U.S. buys more from other countries than it makes and sells to other countries. The U.S. borrows and obligates itself to more than it can make good on. The U.S. prints more currency than is justified by its GDP. The U.S. fights wars with money that it has to borrow or print. No, I wouldn't feel sorry for him or any other professional liar.

As for the whole religious liberties issue, I can appreciate that those individuals and organizations with religious objections to abortion and/or contraception feel oppressed by a law that requires them to pay for abortions and contraception. For them, it is a matter of religious liberty. Personally, I'm irritated by the notion that I'm required to buy health insurance when I've never required any level of care that could justify it and can get better deals on doctor visits and diagnostics by paying cash than the insurance companies or Medicare. It's the same sort of lies that sold states on requiring insurance for all drivers. The promise was that premiums would go down if everyone was forced to participate. Guess what? Premiums haven't gone down. Moreover, individuals such as illegal immigrants usually don't have insurance, meaning that if they hit you, you and/or your insurance still ends up footing the bill and your premiums go up.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:18 PM   #68
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He's talking about business owner who say they're Christians, so they don't believe in having to pay for birth control and abortions. I think it's a total bs notion, to use your beliefs to get out of something you don't want to pay for, therefore raising your profit margin. And as a Christian, money should NEVER be the factor in anything you do. It's a sin to be greedy.
In their minds, their money is being used to kill life in the womb or unnaturally prevent it from coming into being. As for greed, in general the religious give more per capita, and as a percentage of their income, than those that are not religious, so I don't believe that you can make that argument. Is it it in their self-interest (not to be confused with selfishness) to oppose something that forces them to fund something contrary to their beliefs? Sure. Is it no more or less selfish for them to refuse to pay for treatment than for people to refuse to support a growing life inside of themselves. It is simply fact that our law does not recognize the rights of anyone that hasn't been "born", so an unborn child, fetus, or cluster of cells is not entitled to "due process". The ethical or unethical nature of an action does not necessarily equate to legality or illegality, respectively.

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Old 11-08-2012, 04:20 PM   #69
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In their minds, their money is being used to kill life in the womb or unnaturally prevent it from coming into being. As for greed, the religious give more per capita than those that are not religious, so I don't believe that you can make that argument. Is it it in their self-interest (not to be confused with selfishness) to oppose something that forces them to fund something contrary to their beliefs? Sure. Is it no more or less selfish for them to refuse to pay for treatment than for people to refuse to support a growing life inside of themselves. It is simply fact that our law does not recognize the rights of anyone that hasn't been "born", so it is not entitled to "due process". The ethical or unethical nature of an action does not necessarily equate to legality or illegality, respectively.
I leave the abortion talk to those that have been effected by it. But most, and I know it's most, of these men have no clue that "Birth Control Pills" do more than prevent pregnancy. They regulate menstrations, eleviate pains, and control hormone levels in women.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:23 PM   #70
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Why feel sorry for him? It *is* his/their mess. Was he not a Senator? . . .
Did you not vote people into office and then expect them to scratch your back? (and to allow you to scapegoat on someone else)?

Really, I don't care if you zanies rant about these things. I don't mind watching you give yourselves coronaries while you sit in your LazyBoys and rant at the world.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:25 PM   #71
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Did you not vote people into office and then expect them to scratch your back? (and to allow you to scapegoat on someone else)?

Really, I don't care if you zanies rant about these things. I don't mind watching you give yourselves coronaries while you sit in your LazyBoys and rant at the world.
Whereas you sit in your lazyboy and smugly know that the world will one day recognize your genius.

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Old 11-08-2012, 04:26 PM   #72
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I leave the abortion talk to those that have been effected by it.
But if you're paying for it, aren't you affected by it? If society is impacted by it, isn't it affected by it?
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But most, and I know it's most, of these men have no clue that "Birth Control Pills" do more than prevent pregnancy. They regulate menstrations, eleviate pains, and control hormone levels in women.
It's most likely true that most are ignorant of side-benefits of OCPs. However, it is also true that a doctor can prescribe a level of hormones that does not prevent conception, but still helps to alleviate symptoms of a woman's menstrual cycle. So why not change the language of the law to make everybody happy?
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:28 PM   #73
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Whereas you sit in your lazyboy and smugly know that the world will one day recognize your genius.

Well sure (except I don't have a LazyBoy). The difference is that I'm not going to be silly enough to have a coronary over it. (Or be the ignoramouses these zanies are about these things.)

So, have you gone out and bought your gun yet? (And did you lie about how old you were?)
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:31 PM   #74
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But if you're paying for it, aren't you affected by it? If society is impacted by it, isn't it affected by it?

It's most likely true that most are ignorant of side-benefits of OCPs. However, it is also true that a doctor can prescribe a level of hormones that does not prevent conception, but still helps to alleviate symptoms of a woman's menstrual cycle. So why not change the language of the law to make everybody happy?
It's NOT my body, it's NOT baby. I shouldn't have a say.

And as for "paying" for abortions, does this include in cases of rape, incest, and the health of the mother factor into it?

Those hormone treatments are more expensive than the pills now readily available. Before we had insurance, my wife and I tried that, injections and pills. They didn't really worked, and caused a financial strain.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:33 PM   #75
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Whereas you sit in your lazyboy and smugly know that the world will one day recognize your genius.

Good one.

Man, he'll be in that chair until hell freezes over.

As for anything else on this thread I fully support birth control, abortion, rape not being a gift from god and women's rights in general.

Romney was brought down by his own people spouting off about this shit left and right and it cost him. he did not come across as extreme as many of them, but you're judged by the company you keep.

Just as I have leaned towards democrats all my life, but Obama is a disgrace to them and America in general, but the party has a better rep then the republicans. Bill Clinton got him back in more then he himself did. Love him or hate him, Bill is one of the best speakers I have ever heard.

On the note of women/rape justice was served as Mr. "Rape is a gift from god" and Mr "legitimate rape" both went home losers.

As for celebrating obama? Rather than argue whether I am right or wrong this is just something best left to review in a year or so. His actions(or lack of) will speak louder than any of his detractors words.
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