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Old 11-07-2012, 06:12 PM   #26
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Translation for Speaker of the House John Boehner's first post-election speech: "Congratulations, you won, so the next step naturally is for you to give the Republicans everything they want."

Well, he did say "congratulations," so I guess that's a start.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:23 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
Translation for Speaker of the House John Boehner's first post-election speech: "Congratulations, you won, so the next step naturally is for you to give the Republicans everything they want."

Well, he did say "congratulations," so I guess that's a start.
At least it wasn't congratufuckinglations.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:24 PM   #28
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Well, I'll have to say that after skimming Lovecraft's rant, I'm enjoying Obama's win a whole lot more.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:29 PM   #29
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Well, I'll have to say that after skimming Lovecraft's rant, I'm enjoying Obama's win a whole lot more.
We can't take you two anywhere, now can we.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:35 PM   #30
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We can't take you two anywhere, now can we.
Well, I can say that I've served in embassies (which Lovecraft has signaled he has the means to verify), even an embassy under seige, and even an embassy in which an ambassador was killed while it was under seige. But I haven't worked in a warehouse, so Lovecraft may well know what he's talking about.

I'll also say that my response wasn't because of Lovecraft. It would have gone to any "now gonna go get me a gun" ignornamous.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:44 PM   #31
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Well, I can say that I've served in embassies (which Lovecraft has signaled he has the means to verify), even an embassy under seige, and even an embassy in which an ambassador was killed while it was under seige. But I haven't worked in a warehouse, so Lovecraft may well know what he's talking about.

I'll also say that my response wasn't because of Lovecraft. It would have gone to any "now gonna go get me a gun" ignornamous.
Having been in a few embassies myself, I understand. I guess Marines still guard all of them.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:03 PM   #32
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Having been in a few embassies myself, I understand. I guess Marines still guard all of them.
Not as many as they did when I was serving. Budget cuts. Because we just don't have the resources--nor do we have the short response times around the world to a crisis that those who dwell in comic books seem to think.

(I think have a few Marine guard fun stories around here somewhere--just to to bring some AH relevance to this. And I'll admit to having been had by a Marine guard or two. )

(For a couple of years after I retired, I got to see some of the world's outposts by going on TDY to embassies and consulates for a month at a time to sit in either the ambassador's/consul general's or the chief of station's office overnight to be able to verify that no one had gotten in and done anything. This is because they've had to cut the numbers of Marines down at embassies and they can't do roaming checks at night anymore. It was cheaper to bring in a cleared retiree to do it than to support more Marine guards at embassy. I got a lot of writing done, while being paid just to be the one who died if someone got in at night.)
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:10 PM   #33
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By the way, Rodger Davies, U.S. Ambassador to Cyprus, August, 1974. My wife was standing near him in a hallway and I was in a nearby office when he was shot dead during a siege protest of U.S. policy in the Turkish invasion of Cyprus. If I'd been in the embassy warehouse, I would have been much safer.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:36 PM   #34
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Well, I can say that I've served in embassies (which Lovecraft has signaled he has the means to verify), even an embassy under seige, and even an embassy in which an ambassador was killed while it was under seige. But I haven't worked in a warehouse, so Lovecraft may well know what he's talking about.

I'll also say that my response wasn't because of Lovecraft. It would have gone to any "now gonna go get me a gun" ignornamous.
Where was that? The One in Africa?
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:43 PM   #35
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Where was that? The One in Africa?
I answered that twenty-six minutes before you asked. Just because "someone" likes to pretend I just make such things up.

But I was under seige in embassies in Saigon, Phnom Penh, and then Bangkok all within a year a couple of years after that. It isn't all cocktail parties and chit chat in U.S. embassies abroad. And the U.S. government isn't able to do whatever it wants wherever it wants at the drop of a dime either.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:48 PM   #36
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And congratulations to all you US voters who got the guy you wanted. During the lead up, I got the strong impression that if the rest of the world had been allowed to vote, Romney would have struggled to even make it onto the scoreboard.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:51 PM   #37
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And congratulations to all you US voters who got the guy you wanted. During the lead up, I got the strong impression that if the rest of the world had been allowed to vote, Romney would have struggled to even make it onto the scoreboard.
CNN did a world check on that today. Pakistan apparently preferred Romney--oh, and the prime minister of Israel, of course. When they asked in the UK, they just got a sardonic look.
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:29 PM   #38
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In the yahoo news article, "Obama victory spells trouble for Israel's Netanyahu", my favorite quote was this one;

One of the Israeli prime minister's own leading coalition allies, Eli Yishai of the religious Shas party, said simply: "It's not a very good morning for Netanyahu."

Second favorite quote from the same article,

"Netanyahu bet on the wrong president and got us into hot water with Obama," the opposition Kadima party said on Facebook.

I pray Israel does not drag us into World War III. No hoping in this case, instead a constant prayer.

Typo corrected.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:24 PM   #39
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To my mind the only thing better for the Republicans than winning the election was to lose it.

The current Republicans won't like it, but traditional Republicanism has to re-assert itself. The marginalization of the likes of Olympia Snowe, Susan Harris and their ilk has been a disaster. Successful Republicanism has always relied on common sense and good government, and ignored ideology. The religious, racist , Women/Queer hating, Tea partying ideologues should be toast - but they aren't yet - they still dominate the House.

I don't expect much change from the Republican House over Budget/Tax issues when they get back to Washington, but if they continue their obstructionist ways Obama might well end up with Democratic control of both Senate and House for his last 2 years.

My particular hope is that there are at least a couple of Supreme Court vacancies in the next year or two, in which of course only the Senate will have a say.

I'm not an American but if I was, suspect that I would be part of an endangered species, a liberal Republican. It will probably take 8 rather than 4 years to get rid of the ratbags from the Republican party, but it can't come soon enough.

Oh and Lovecraft; diplomatic staff have been in the firing line for generations. One of my great, great, uncles had his head put on a spike in Afghanistan (some things don't change) The senior official at the time reported back to London that whist his death was regrettable, he was the least important member of the delegation, and the British had a sound rationale for a punitive response. Diplomacy isn't just about sweet talking but is also about brutal logic applied to National Interest.

Ultimately the loss of the Americans in Benghazi was very regrettable but you ain't gonna go to war over it. The late ambassador almost certainly understood that better than you appear to.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:34 PM   #40
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The current Republicans won't like it, but traditional Republicanism has to re-assert itself.
I think the basic problem is that this doesn't mean they will, especially any time soon. It's been nine years since they were told in no uncertain terms that they had to (and could, because the Bushes were connected) pull the Hispanic vote. They've made no efforts to do so--in fact, they are pushing them away. If they'd even done a half-assed job of it, they'd have the White House now. Many of their factions are so doctrinaire (in obnoxious ways) that I don't think they'll come together just because it makes sense or they have to do win the White House any time soon.

If Jeb Bush reemerges as a party leader any time soon, they might be figuring that out. This isn't an endorsement of him. It's just that he's the symbol within the party for needing to do this.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:37 PM   #41
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At work, the died-in-the-wool GOPs were discussing the results. They were not pleased, but they did expect it. Romney ran a vicious primary, attacking everyone, then tried to move to the center. They do believe there might be a not-so-civil war soon in the GOP, between those of the Tea Party, the moderates, and the young.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:54 AM   #42
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The GOP is busy trying to do the usual, blame the loss on 'the liberal media', rather then looking at the reality of what the party has become, the party of angry white people from the south and midwest farm belt (Jon Stewart had a great line on the Daily Show last night, he said Romney should be proud, he got elected president of the Confederate States of America) . The problem with the GOP is they retook power under Reagan with policies of divisiveness, they brought in the religious whack jobs , they brought in the Archie Bunker blue collar types by blaming their economic losses on affirmative action and welfare, and continued to do so by splitting the country into 'real americans" and 'damn liberal elites" and by highlighting where people differed on things, like abortion, rather then working on the things most people care about. To quote Goldwater and Buckley both, who weren't happy with what the conservative movement had turned into, he said that the GOP basically turned into the party, rather then of an intellectually honest form of conservatism, into a party for the loony right, the ex klansmen, the religious nuts, the pseudo populist, neo William Jennings Bryan , evil banks versus good, honest, hard working folk who get nothing from the government, etc....they demonized unions and got blue collar workers to actually believe they were responsible for the fall of US industries, it was a snow job par excellence and it worked, because they found out that dividing is a way to win and by gerrymandering congressional districts and the electoral system, they keep themselves in the game by gaming the system.

The problem they face is it isn't going to work any more, because the people they depend on, white, southern and rural voters, are more and more becoming a minority. They tried to bring up social issues, and it fizzled, the Catholic Church tried a full court press over contraception and it failed, they tried to stir the fires of anti gay bigots, promoting banning same sex marriage in the constitution, and three states by ballot validated same sex marriages and Minnesota refused to ban it. Their demographics are going to kill them and even their people know it, Jeb Bush wrote a long Op Ed article and said the GOP is in deep trouble if all they can do is grab the white rural and farm belt vote and have their rich constituencies and he is right.

The GOP only capture 20% of the Hispanic vote, the fastest growing group, and aren't likely to because the rabid anti immigrant sentiment is thinly veiled racism

The GOP only captured 30% of the 35 and under vote, and that is the future, and very, very few young people are registering as GOP these days, and their party is getting older and older and literally is in danger in a generation or so of dying out.

And it shows, I was watching the election and when you saw Romney's headquarters, it looked like an election headquarters c1954, the average age was probably approaching 50, and the only young people in attendance were the families of the candidates; meanwhile, Obama's headquarters had a lot of young people and the mix of people looked like what America is becoming, not what it was.

I think the GOP also is going to pay a price if they think they can pull the tea party shit, dig in their heels and say 'no compromise' and win, tea party candidates fell all over the place, Bachmann managed to get re-elected somehow but barely, Brown got his tail kicked out the door, Allen in Florida got the boot, The other Allen failed in his bid for senate, and polls show that most people blame the GOP congress members for gridlock, they have thought they could obstruct Obama's plans and then blame him for it, this election says it didn't work.

I suspect the GOP is going to have to go back to its roots, they have to purge the hard right from positions of power and go more traditonal, fiscally conservative, socially libertarian views that were what the party was before the party decided it was going to be led by what Mencken used to call the KKK branch of the Democratic party. Most people don't want religion to rule society, majorities of people have no problem with same sex marriage and among young people, 70% of them favor it, people want solutions to problems, not telling everyone we have to go back to the good ole days. Either change, or I suspect the libertarian party could end up inheriting large swaths of the GOP and like the old Whig party collapsed to form the GOP, the GOP could end up forming a libertarian party from its ashes.

As far as the rant about Bhengazi, that is complete crap, Romney tried to use that and it got thrown back in his face. Embassies are and have always been targets, and we have had people killed at Embassies in Saudi Arabia and Kenya in recent years.......and the rhetoric about embassies being US soil is true, but if that is the case, how come after Reagan took office he didn't immediately go after Iran? Even though they released the hostages, they had committed an act of war..yet Reagan did nothing, and later sold those same Iranians weapons...blood on Obama's hands? Military not allowed to carry weapons? Anyone remember the marines in 1983 in Lebanon, when St. Reagan ended up killing 269 Marines, who weren't allowed to carry armed weapons (the SEALS loved that, they of course totally ignored it), and had the base guarded by unarmed Lebanese guards...and after the Marines were killed, did absolutely nothing to avenge their deaths (the French did, in spades, they performed one hell of a low level flight maneuver that pretty much wiped up Walid, the person behind the bombing, and took out not only his fighters but most of the families as well, the headquarters literally was blown to dust..but not by Reagan, despite all his bluster). Blaming Obama is idiotic, might as well blame the GOP for cutting the security budget for the state department by some ridiculous amount.


One thing I did note, did people notice Obama's expression after you saw him being told he had won....he looked quite honestly like a man, not joyed that he was won, but rather looked like a man who wasn't overjoyed to have won another term but felt he needed to be there, it was quite somber comparatively.
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:09 AM   #43
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At work, the died-in-the-wool GOPs were discussing the results. They were not pleased, but they did expect it. Romney ran a vicious primary, attacking everyone, then tried to move to the center. They do believe there might be a not-so-civil war soon in the GOP, between those of the Tea Party, the moderates, and the young.
That would be salutary for the country.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:10 AM   #44
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I think the basic problem is that this doesn't mean they will, especially any time soon. It's been nine years since they were told in no uncertain terms that they had to (and could, because the Bushes were connected) pull the Hispanic vote. They've made no efforts to do so--in fact, they are pushing them away. If they'd even done a half-assed job of it, they'd have the White House now. Many of their factions are so doctrinaire (in obnoxious ways) that I don't think they'll come together just because it makes sense or they have to do win the White House any time soon.
I suspect you're right. If the Republicans do not purge the extremists, it could be another 15 to 20 years before a moderate/conservative takes the Presidency.

Winning the Democrat primaries may be the most important route to office for a few years yet.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:32 AM   #45
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What has doomed the GOP (and I am a former GOP'er turned Libertarian) is they are still led and dominated by the fundy so-called Religious Right. They are losing the Young Conservatives to the Libertarian Party. If they ever want to win the White House again they need to get more like Teddy Roosevelt. Then they need to banish the idiots like Santorum, Palin, Akien, and Bachmann.

I had an argument with a fundy Religious Repub today. He was saying that the country has abandoned God. I quickly countered to him that if the election was a week ago, before Sandy, Romney probably wins. If Sandy had hit two or three weeks earlier then Obama loses due to the continued missteps by FEMA and the unions in the North East. If you want to believe that God is in control of everything, then you have to believe that God sent the storm to re-elect Obama. He turned three shades of red and did not have anything to say.

Personally I can't believe that a president with Obama's record on jobs, debt, failed foreign actions, cover-ups, and continued mass-cronyism, twice had the US credit rating lowered, and 100% negative campaign was re-elected.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:12 AM   #46
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I suspect you're right. If the Republicans do not purge the extremists, it could be another 15 to 20 years before a moderate/conservative takes the Presidency.

Winning the Democrat primaries may be the most important route to office for a few years yet.
Obama is a moderate, and some of his policies are somewhat conservative. He just doesn't look like one because the right wing has shifted so insanely far toward fascism.
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:44 AM   #47
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"You have to have a sense of humor if you follow politics. Otherwise, the sheer fraudulence of it all will get you down." - Thomas Sowell

Frankly, I find it pretty amusing that some people are celebrating the reelection of a professional liar (from the Chicago school of politics, no less). Perhaps they think that something worthwhile will be accomplished in the swamplands of DC. The only thing that I'm hoping for, what I've always hoped for, is for government to stop bothering me. Alas, Uncle Sam hasn't been satisfied with telling me where to march for a few years, so I'll continue doing what I've always done: get along as best as I can, despite the idiots in Washington.

In keeping with the whole notion of proffering opinions, here's two good and bad things I anticipate in the next four years.

Good: My investment hedge in gold and silver will continue to outperform the stock market.
Bad: My ammunition and firearm costs will continue to go up.
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:10 AM   #48
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Obama is a moderate, and some of his policies are somewhat conservative. He just doesn't look like one because the right wing has shifted so insanely far toward fascism.
In my opinion, both the asses and dumbos are much more similar than people realize. Both parties, despite protestations to the contrary, want to expand the powers of the central government. The only things that they disagree about are which powers should be expanded first. (Though they both love the Patriot Act.) Both parties are pushing the country towards corporatism. The only things that they disagree about are who will control the corporate bodies. Both parties are spending the country deeper into debt. The only things that they disagree about are the types of crap they'll spend the borrowed money on.

Meanwhile, the sheeple grouse at one another, complaining about one party or the other, as if they're not all getting sheared by both parties.

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Old 11-08-2012, 10:47 AM   #49
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The GOP still controls the House, and actually added a couple of seats. Money bills are created in the House.

He'll have fun, fun fun till Boner takes the bankcard away.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:48 AM   #50
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The GOP controls the House.
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