Old 11-17-2013, 12:00 PM   #1
twelveoone
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Does your poem...

Denote?
maybe back it up and try again
I mean I am not an anti prose hardliner, but leave some operating room for the reader.
Indirection is king, i.e. this is what it looks like I'm saying, I am saying something else.
The thing beyond the words, that is the poetry.
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Old 11-17-2013, 12:30 PM   #2
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*frowns - goes to look*
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What strange machinery lies between her ears
HarryHill


'tender hearted...
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Old 11-17-2013, 12:36 PM   #3
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some do, some don't... i favour layering, but sometimes a poem matures differently. i have to admire when others do it well.
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What strange machinery lies between her ears
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Last edited by butters : 11-17-2013 at 01:17 PM. Reason: ugly phrasing
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Old 11-17-2013, 12:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
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some do, some don't... i favour layering, but sometimes a poem matures differently. i admire when others do well what you speak of.
..
It's a 12 o trick to get us to think again.
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Old 11-17-2013, 01:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
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..
It's a 12 o trick to get us to think again.
yeah, but this . . . this is so right: the thing beyond words - that is the poetry
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What strange machinery lies between her ears
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'tender hearted...
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Old 11-17-2013, 01:20 PM   #6
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That resident curmudgeon Senna Jawa drew the prose/poetry border as well as anyone: prose is 90% author and 10% reader; poetry is a 50/50 venture.
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:59 PM   #7
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Most poetry is 100% the writer, 0% the reader.

It simply ignores most people.
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Old 11-17-2013, 05:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogusagain View Post
Most poetry is 100% the writer, 0% the reader.

It simply ignores most people.
i'm not sure i'd agree with that statement, bogus...

personally, when i write, i might not be consciously thinking about an audience until, perhaps, the editing process, but tend to try and use images/conceits that will meet the reader at least half-way by tying in with something they may have experienced themselves . . . whether that's the colours in a sunset or the feel of a hand on a face, the swollen feeling of a heart when emotions are concerned, the cry of a child or an animal... maybe, as i write, i'm trying to see both sides at once (reader/writer), knowing a reader will buy into something they recognise far sooner than something quite alien to their own experiences.

i do think your statement might apply more to writings of times gone by, certain stylistic qualities that were more about attempting to elevate the poem through lofty language and stringent structure; there are, of course, exceptions. a lot of modern poetry i read doesn't ignore the reader, but, rather, embraces me... and then there's NP. a lot of that isn't anything close to poetry, and ignores all except the poet's entirely self-motivated intention for writing it.
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'tender hearted...
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Old 11-17-2013, 05:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corndog_ View Post
That resident curmudgeon Senna Jawa drew the prose/poetry border as well as anyone: prose is 90% author and 10% reader; poetry is a 50/50 venture.
I believe I was paraphrasing you, denote, i.e. you said it better than said Senna
and
Senna's math is off, in that these are fixed ratios...
and it is not a partnership, it is a catalyst or it is inert
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Old 11-17-2013, 05:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogusagain View Post
Most poetry is 100% the writer, 0% the reader.

It simply ignores most people.
I ignore most poetry
Most readers ignore me
fair dinkum, I would say

Not really

this was prompted by what butters said here
and then there's NP. a lot of that isn't anything close to poetry, and ignores all except the poet's entirely self-motivated intention for writing it.

I can't quite agree with it entirely, but if does baffle me
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Old 11-17-2013, 07:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butters View Post
i'm not sure i'd agree with that statement, bogus...
.
While poetry sales don't give us the whole picture, their risible sales gives us a snap shot of the situation. Not many people put their money where their mouth is and buy poetry books.

Even someone like me who is prepared to put my money where my mouth is, end up walking out of he book shop with a novel because most poetry books contain poetry that could be about the thinness of the atmosphere on a distant planet.

Another failed excursion to the bookshop!

Last edited by bogusagain : 11-17-2013 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 11-17-2013, 07:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twelveoone View Post
I ignore most poetry
Most readers ignore me
fair dinkum, I would say
I知 the dog in doggerel
a flee bitten mongrel
a bit of this and a bit of that
like the comedic camel
a committee could have done no worse

I知 all out of proportion
fate having no sense of scale
I might be the butt of all the jokes
but I'm the dog people like to stroke
I知 them in doggish form
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogusagain View Post
I知 the dog in doggerel
a flee bitten mongrel
a bit of this and a bit of that
like the comedic camel
a committee could have done no worse

I知 all out of proportion
fate having no sense of scale
I might be the butt of all the jokes
but I'm the dog people like to stroke
I知 them in doggish form
is this me?
ROFL
I'd buy it
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:26 AM   #14
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Ok, so where does that leave onieria?
since his/her? poems denote, but in their simplicity you are left with stark imagery?

most of my poems fall into the denote category, a couple are "poetic" in the sense they say one thing but mean another.
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:39 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todski28 View Post
Ok, so where does that leave onieria?
since his/her? poems denote, but in their simplicity you are left with stark imagery?

most of my poems fall into the denote category, a couple are "poetic" in the sense they say one thing but mean another.
I believe we are getting into a grey area that encompasses connotation. dunno, I've stumbled off the path of understanding all that goes on in 12's head and mine for that matter.
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:44 AM   #16
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I believe we are getting into a grey area that encompasses connotation. dunno, I've stumbled off the path of understanding all that goes on in 12's head and mine for that matter.
well at least I am not awkwardly alone
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Old 11-20-2013, 06:28 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryHill View Post
I believe we are getting into a grey area that encompasses connotation. dunno, I've stumbled off the path of understanding all that goes on in 12's head and mine for that matter.
They're making me write
I've never wrote from anybody before
The poet has left town
1201's quit. And I'm having trouble
with a lady

It's a great life
You risk you're poem catching chlamydia
and the doctors turn them loose
so they can come back
and write at you again

If you're a poet, you're poor
your whole life. And in the end
you wind up living all alone
on some social benefit
For why? For nothing
For a thin book

The public doesn't give a damn
abour integrity
A poem that won't defend itself
deserves no help
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Old 11-20-2013, 10:38 AM   #18
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Everytime I read the thread title, I sing a little song in my mind.

Do your poems hang low? Do they swing to and fro?
Can you tie 'em in a knot? Can you tie 'em in a bow?
Can you throw them o'er your shoulder like a Continental soldier?
Can you do the double shuffle when your poems hang low?

Do they make a lusty clamor when you hit them with a hammer?
Do they have a mellow tingle when you hit them with a shingle?
Do they have a salty taste when you wrap 'em 'round your waist?
Do your poems hang low?
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Old 11-20-2013, 10:44 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by todski28 View Post
Ok, so where does that leave onieria?
since his/her? poems denote, but in their simplicity you are left with stark imagery?

most of my poems fall into the denote category, a couple are "poetic" in the sense they say one thing but mean another.
read the thread Level three - Senna Jawa
in short juxtaposition, the poetry is there, i.e. what is filled in by you

onieria flirts with disaster everytime he writes, I respect him for that, he often fails in that the "gap" is not quite spaced right

Tzara "gaps" by what is off the page, again a dangerous move, it is still juxtaposition though

This believe it or not, is the way humour works, for humour to work, the audience has to "work" also, get it?

ah, well, you shoulda been there
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:18 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by bronzeage View Post
Everytime I read the thread title, I sing a little song in my mind.

Do your poems hang low? Do they swing to and fro?
Can you tie 'em in a knot? Can you tie 'em in a bow?
Can you throw them o'er your shoulder like a Continental soldier?
Can you do the double shuffle when your poems hang low?

Do they make a lusty clamor when you hit them with a hammer?
Do they have a mellow tingle when you hit them with a shingle?
Do they have a salty taste when you wrap 'em 'round your waist?
Do your poems hang low?
hahahaha
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Old 11-23-2013, 02:42 PM   #21
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I believe we are getting into a grey area that encompasses connotation. dunno, I've stumbled off the path of understanding all that goes on in 12's head and mine for that matter.
craving a tall glass
of fluorinated city water

you stumble quite well, it denotes, however in context...
btw
fluoridated (sp)
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Old 11-23-2013, 02:59 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twelveoone View Post
craving a tall glass
of fluorinated city water

you stumble quite well, it denotes, however in context...
btw
fluoridated (sp)
..
I've got to stop pasting semi directly from writing live. *bells jingle*
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Old 12-07-2013, 10:02 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryHill View Post
..
I've got to stop pasting semi directly from writing live. *bells jingle*
well 'tis the season



Quote:
Originally Posted by bogusagain View Post
They're making me write
I've never wrote from anybody before
The poet has left town
1201's quit. And I'm having trouble
with a lady

It's a great life
You risk you're poem catching chlamydia
and distributing it

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogusagain View Post
and the doctors turn them loose
so they can come back
and write at you again

If you're a poet, you're poor
your whole life. And in the end
you wind up living all alone
on some social benefit
For why? For nothing
For a thin book
that make great Christmas gifts

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogusagain View Post
The public doesn't give a damn
abour integrity
A poem that won't defend itself
deserves no help
no but at least it is infectious now, and since you redefined social interaction

ho,ho,ho
said the fat man in a red suit with a bag o thin books

mummy, why does Santa look like Henry the VIII? 'N' where is your head?
Now there is a thought
A syphilitic, bloodstained ex King o Englund barreling his fat ass through small chimneys (how sick, how Freudian) loping off heads...

Fuck you Wes Craven, I want a cut (pardon the pun)

And you have Royalty still? For what reason? After Maggie the witch (bless her undead soul) made such a point about social parasites. O Rue Britannia.

Well I'm off to do a remake of It's a Wonderful Life starring Bogus
I'm the Angel
casting is still being done for the naked girl in the bushes
anyone want to try out?
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Old 12-07-2013, 05:51 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by twelveoone View Post
well 'tis the season




and distributing it


that make great Christmas gifts


no but at least it is infectious now, and since you redefined social interaction

ho,ho,ho
said the fat man in a red suit with a bag o thin books

mummy, why does Santa look like Henry the VIII? 'N' where is your head?
Now there is a thought
A syphilitic, bloodstained ex King o Englund barreling his fat ass through small chimneys (how sick, how Freudian) loping off heads...

Fuck you Wes Craven, I want a cut (pardon the pun)

And you have Royalty still? For what reason? After Maggie the witch (bless her undead soul) made such a point about social parasites. O Rue Britannia.

Well I'm off to do a remake of It's a Wonderful Life starring Bogus
I'm the Angel
casting is still being done for the naked girl in the bushes
anyone want to try out?
are we talking holly bushes here, only....
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Old 12-07-2013, 06:00 PM   #25
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are we talking holly bushes here, only....
Bogus as the protagonist? Are rehearsals open? Better still, dress rehearsals?
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