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Old 10-22-2012, 07:48 PM   #51
Arlan
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Originally Posted by StacyTG View Post
Here's a question I have. Are there different...levels to being transgendered? What I mean is this. Take person A, who feels so strongly that they have to go through the process of physically aligning their bodies with their genders. Then take somebody like me. I know I'm a woman on the inside, but I'm not sure that I want to go forward with any sort of transitioning, aside from shaving my legs, etc., and wearing pretty clothes. Am I...less of a transgender, or not transgender at all? If I knew I could have a complete reassignment surgery with ZERO risk of complications, I'd do it in a heartbeat, but, I'm just too scared to start that process. That's what I struggle with, because I know in my heart and my soul, I'm a woman, but I'm not sure that I'm truly transgendered because I'm not transitioning.

Does that make any sense at all?
Makes perfect sense to me. I'm used to my body. It's dependable. It does everything I need it to do, and most of what I want it to do. Messing with it seems frivolous. I'd love to have a male shape magically bestowed upon me, but it doesn't work that way in the real world.

What are you? What am I? I don't know. I know what I'm not. I'm not female, and lately I am so sick of people thinking they know something about me because they've categorized me as a woman. They'd also be wrong if they categorized me as a man, but less wrong. Do I qualify for a membership in the transgendered club? Does it matter?
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Old 10-23-2012, 02:16 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Arlan View Post
Makes perfect sense to me. I'm used to my body. It's dependable. It does everything I need it to do, and most of what I want it to do. Messing with it seems frivolous. I'd love to have a male shape magically bestowed upon me, but it doesn't work that way in the real world.

What are you? What am I? I don't know. I know what I'm not. I'm not female, and lately I am so sick of people thinking they know something about me because they've categorized me as a woman. They'd also be wrong if they categorized me as a man, but less wrong. Do I qualify for a membership in the transgendered club? Does it matter?
*nods*

That's it in a nutshell.

I look at me and see wrong things...but am okay with it as I have had 40 years to learn to love those wrong things.

When I bind, strap up? I become more of what I want to be...but that doesn't mean that I feel less like myself when I am *normal*...

I am always ME.

Just the ME inside happens to have a lot more testosterone...

I think of myself as gender queer...because I am.
I think of myself as BOI because I am.
Other people's opinions don't matter two shits to me...because as Popeye said best~

"I am what I am and that's all that I am."

I feel comfortable in this thread because it means that i am not alone in my dysphoria. Other people experience it. Other people know it. People HERE understand that I don't think of myself as 5 feet nothing, 135 pounds, 36DD woman.

I think of myself as BOI...and the rest of it is irrelevant.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:10 PM   #53
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hi stickygirl,

I didn't realize that the term transsexual has an unfortunate meaning in the United Kingdom. Obviously, the know-nothings in America toss the phrase around willy-nilly, but to my experience it has a very precise meaning when used in serious discussions within the community.

I did wonder about that NFL reference when I saw that you are a UK girl. It stands for National Football League, professional football American style, with 300 pound, steroid-fueled, armor-clad monsters bashing each other so they can push a football over a goal line. Similar to rugby, except that in American football it's legal to block people who are trying to tackle the ball carrier and the tackling is much more violent because of the helmets and body armor. It's okay for a Brit to be clueless about it in a tit-for-tat way, because most people in America call the European style of football "soccer," and think it's a girls' sport. I do have to admit that most Americans, male, female or confused, feel for their football team the same emotions which Rod Stewart has for Celtic United, and I wouldn't choose an art show over a Steelers game.

Thanks for mentioning the role of hormones in the sexual reassignment process. In some very weird ways, the hormones scare me more than the surgery precisely because they do alter moods, perceptions, and thoughts. While I have my bad moments, on the whole I am not uncomfortable with the way I view and interact with the world, and am a little frightened by the idea that my hold on what I perceive to be "reality" might be somehow skewed. I also enjoy sports, hiking, working-out at the gym, et cetera, and have wondered if hormones would adversely affect my physical capabilities.

I agree that Blanchard is borderline offensive when he talks about homosexual transsexuals,although he is wrestling with a difficult concept. In the strictly biological sense, it is homosexual conduct for me to have intercourse with a male, because all the word stands for is sexual relations with members of the same sex. (homo = Greek word meaning same), but, nevertheless, I don't like to be called homosexual because it has become synonymous with Gay, and I am not a Gay man.

I don't know if you've read any of Nowicky's book Alice in Genderland, but she is sort of the poster girl for people like me. She was totally masculine up through college, and didn't come to self-realization until she was an adult. This comment of hers could have been written about me, "If someone had told me when I was a rugby player in college that I would wind up dressing in women's clothes, going to bed with men, and being f*cked like a woman I would probably have committed suicide." She currently maintains a successful medical practice in Los Angeles, and is married to a genetic woman who is comfortable with her dating males.


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Thanks Starr - some interesting thoughts there and obviously you have looked into those reports far more than my woeful cursory skims. Maybe there's a language-culture thing behind my reaction because in the UK, we tend to frown on the use of the word transexual, because it suggests a sexual angle to the topic. Sure enough sex is just a word, but it comes loaded huh?
As for SRS, bear in mind it isn't just the surgery but the hormones that offer relief to so many of us and being rid of so many contrary male impulses is such a blessing, quite apart from the more obvious physical changes they produce. But yes, you're right, it is aimed at mental well-being.
Blanchard uses a category to describe MtF who seek a male partner as a homosexual transexual and I have to say I find that a very …unfortunate use of language. I can't help but feel that despite his extensive work he may have lost the plot or at least his perspective in that respect. But that's just my personal reaction.

But thank you so much for explaining your orientation: I've only ever heard vague references before so I found it really interesting. Hey - I'll go to that art show with you that next NFL game ( err… is that, what, a baseball team… God, sorry - I haven't the faintest )
Anyway, like all these other fab posts, I feel I'm learning so much about the rest of the community and that so valuable!
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:24 PM   #54
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The word transsexual is only loaded to people who don't know that the word 'sex' means more than one thing.

In this case, "sex" means the procreational capability of the organism, as in the male sex, the female sex.

The word as it's used today is a short version of "sexual congress" or other versions of that concept, meaning putting male and female sexual organs together. We started shortening "having sexual congress' into things like
'having sex'

Transsexuals are people who have been able to, or want to, change the organs that define their sexual capability.

does that make sense?
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:54 PM   #55
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Sure, the etymology of the TS word is sound but the media, and the internet mostly, equates shemale with transexual, so by association the original meaning has been skewed... so... pfft - I'll keep reminding myself of the original meaning!
Random blurt re american football: when some 6'6" 300 pound hulk makes a 'touch-down?' , how come they do that silly little girl dance on their toes That has always cracked me up. Sorry - I hope that not terribly disrespectful!
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:15 AM   #56
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We're not sick petition

Hi guys
Your sister from the UK who won't stop chattering!
OK so here's a link for you ...

http://www.change.org/notsick

"But the World Health Organization (WHO) insists that I, and millions of other trans people are sick. The WHO actually considers transsexualism to be a mental disorder.

Since facing and overcoming discrimination for being a transgender woman back in March - when I was kicked out of and then re-admitted to the Miss Universe Pageant - I've been working to fight the stigma and discrimination facing people like me.

Join me in signing this petition and ask the World Health Organization to stop considering transsexual people mentally ill." Jenna Talackova

PS Starr - look! She used the word transsexualism ( with two ss's!! ) Ha! I'm learning
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:49 PM   #57
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A slightly related interjection about terminology.

The one thing I can't stand is people using the word 'tranny'. To me that sounds so trashy, apathetic and vulgar.

In times past I used to consider using some UK 'dressing' and escort services run for transgendered people. The kind of thing where they help you look as passable as possible and then take a group of you out on the town (while charging you a ridiculous amount of money for something you could really do by yourself - save for perhaps some makeup expertise).

I was quite interested, and had money to spare at the time. At the end of the advert for the service it said something like 'and then you can finish up in our dressing rooms and browse our shops which provide everything tranny'.

Yuck. That is not something I am interested in.

I have at times been back and forth on whether I am a transvestite or transgendered (it's certainly not an easy thing to work out ), but I am not, never have been and never will be a 'tranny'.

'Tranny' conjurs up images of Lily Savage... who for those fortunate enough to not know... is an utterly disgusting UK comedian who used to dress up as a very ugly woman and try to tell jokes. He has been known to say very unpleasant things about transgendered people in interviews before (so I am not just judging on appearance ).

Just a bit of a rant based on a previous experience.

Back to the more sensible conversation now.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:50 PM   #58
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Thanks Kate

Wow - this isn't so much as a bump but as an explosion!

Lana Wachowshi's acceptance speech at the Human Right's Campaign awards - a must see!!!

http://youtu.be/crHHycz7T_c
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:48 PM   #59
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stickygirl,

Thanks for the WHO linky. If I recall correctly, it wasn't all that many years ago when homosexuality was considered to be a mental illness. Moreover, in the bad old days alcoholism was considered to be weakness of character, and now it's recognized as a disease. So, the times they are a-changin', just too slowly to suit those of us alive in the here and now!

It took me a while to remember to use a double s when spelling transsexual, too. It must be a character flaw. Long ago, I lost a spelling bee when I spelled embarrassment with only one r.

Re: Football. The funny little dances are sort of a black guy thing. White football players usually take the ball and fling it as hard as they can into the ground, which is called spiking.
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Old 10-27-2012, 05:19 AM   #60
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Time to meet my "I wish I was her" role model: this Prof Alice Roberts who studies Anatomy... and makes it interesting! She's everything I want to be: smart, pretty and sexy, which is far too much to ask but just enough to wish for. She's also a really nice person 'cos I know some people who've met her




Of course anatomy isn't my subject so here's my role model who is


and he's really quite tasty :P
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Old 10-27-2012, 07:52 AM   #61
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Here's a question I have. Are there different...levels to being transgendered? What I mean is this. Take person A, who feels so strongly that they have to go through the process of physically aligning their bodies with their genders. Then take somebody like me. I know I'm a woman on the inside, but I'm not sure that I want to go forward with any sort of transitioning, aside from shaving my legs, etc., and wearing pretty clothes. Am I...less of a transgender, or not transgender at all? If I knew I could have a complete reassignment surgery with ZERO risk of complications, I'd do it in a heartbeat, but, I'm just too scared to start that process. That's what I struggle with, because I know in my heart and my soul, I'm a woman, but I'm not sure that I'm truly transgendered because I'm not transitioning.

Does that make any sense at all?
My thoughts exactly.

I love to shave my body smooth, I love high heels (though I can never fit myself in them), I love anklets and belly chains, I just love being a woman in bed, but I don't want any reassignment surgery done. I mean, I would love to have breasts, I love my nipples being played with, but silicone doesn't quite attract my attention. I am happy with my medium sized cock, and I think of it as a boi-clitty, to be played with during sex as a woman's clitoris. I love to be submissive; the idea of not being in charge really turns me on.

But in general, I'm comfortable in my skin. My encounters with men have been satisfying, and though I may be physically different from the image that I have inside my head, on the whole I am content.

The thing with me is this: for me, the gayness lies in the fact that I would be the woman when I'm with a man. Like for instance the terminology of top/bottom acquires a new dimension - since I am a woman, obviously he would penetrate me. It would be natural. I want him to fuck me like I'm a woman: get his release, and then hold me close and cuddle.

I'm not sure if I got out everything exactly as it is in my head, but this is pretty much the gist of it.
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Old 10-27-2012, 08:24 AM   #62
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Interesting thread. I think everyone, even straight men as I'm about to prove, have an image or ideal they would like to uphold. A person they see and say "Wish I looked like him."

I'm not a vain sort(good thing) I'd say an average looking guy who's done fine with women, but more through confidence, sense of humor and an engaging personality.

The other day the wife and I were discussing this thread, who would we want to be?

This is my choice. J.D. Fortune former lead singer of INXS. Wife describes him as a pretty bad boy and I can see it. I have the bad down, but was made no where near this pretty.

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Old 10-27-2012, 12:52 PM   #63
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Wishing versus ... needing?

Thanks for the post LoveC and it raises a relevant point.
If a little boy wants to dress up as Spiderman for Halloween then his parents will approve and encourage him; if he wants to dress as fairy princess he's going to meet all sorts of resistance, shock, abhorrence…
If a guy likes to dress up as Elvis then he'll probably get some funny looks, he might get some hassle but he could joke his way out of it.
So if you'd like to magically look like JD then fine - who is going to criticise your wish?
Are you getting my drift yet?
If a teenage XY, who knows she really IS a girl, starts dressing and behaving as a girl then she will get any amount of shit thrown at her. This is about life choices, not lifestyle. This isn't about choice but need. For me to go back to being a boy is unconscionable: I would kill myself. I have been there, on the edge and if it weren't for the love of my family…

So again, thank you for your point LoveC - it was good to raise that, but you are lucky enough to be entirely heterosexual and a bit of a dude

And Seamen (I really like Seamen - we have chatted now and again and he's lovely *waves*) but I've chosen my pronoun with care - am I right with that Seamen? I don't care what Seamen is … part time TS, living a life as a very attractive young man but having a sexual need that hovers somewhere between gay and TS. You go for it Seamen - you deserve happiness because you are a beautiful person but, I've no need to lecture you, be careful sweetie! X

We TS's should always be open-minded: people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones right? I have come across one or two TG extremists online, who feel that because they have undergone SRS that they have earned a right to look down on others. I mean "hello"??? That makes them every bit as bigoted as any trans-phobic cis-gendered person, if not worse. I have no time for one-upmanship.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:10 PM   #64
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I can identify almost completely with your description of the way you want to have sex with men. Thanks for expressing your thoughts.



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My thoughts exactly.

I love to shave my body smooth, I love high heels (though I can never fit myself in them), I love anklets and belly chains, I just love being a woman in bed, but I don't want any reassignment surgery done. I mean, I would love to have breasts, I love my nipples being played with, but silicone doesn't quite attract my attention. I am happy with my medium sized cock, and I think of it as a boi-clitty, to be played with during sex as a woman's clitoris. I love to be submissive; the idea of not being in charge really turns me on.

But in general, I'm comfortable in my skin. My encounters with men have been satisfying, and though I may be physically different from the image that I have inside my head, on the whole I am content.

The thing with me is this: for me, the gayness lies in the fact that I would be the woman when I'm with a man. Like for instance the terminology of top/bottom acquires a new dimension - since I am a woman, obviously he would penetrate me. It would be natural. I want him to fuck me like I'm a woman: get his release, and then hold me close and cuddle.

I'm not sure if I got out everything exactly as it is in my head, but this is pretty much the gist of it.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:14 AM   #65
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Time to meet my "I wish I was her" role model: this Prof Alice Roberts who studies Anatomy... and makes it interesting! She's everything I want to be: smart, pretty and sexy, which is far too much to ask but just enough to wish for. She's also a really nice person 'cos I know some people who've met her
That seems like a great example of an inspirational 'I want to be her' based on more than just the physical.

I also think some of the most attractive women out there, are attractive based on their minds and not just what's on the outside.

Two of my favourites are Francesca Stavrakopoulou (professor of Hebrew and ancient religion) and Lucy Worsley (curator of various old and very expensive buildings in the UK, makes historic TV programs, and once replied to an email I sent her and made me very happy ).
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:20 AM   #66
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This is my choice. J.D. Fortune former lead singer of INXS. Wife describes him as a pretty bad boy and I can see it. I have the bad down, but was made no where near this pretty.
This is just meant as a humorous aside, and as always, each to their own and all.

I do have to make a quick comment on this though.

JD Fortune is a bad boy in the same way that the lead singer of Oasis is a tough man (meaning... not at all really, but both the media and his agents want you to think he is). INXS and his solo career are hardly pushing cultural boundaries and making innovations either musically or in acceptable social conventions.

It's a bit like calling Elmo from Sesame Street a bad boy in my opinion.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:42 PM   #67
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Ha! Katie, that is going to shock some of our lurkers - TGs want to be librarians and intellectuals "What?! You mean like ordinary people?!"
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:54 PM   #68
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This is just meant as a humorous aside, and as always, each to their own and all.

I do have to make a quick comment on this though.

JD Fortune is a bad boy in the same way that the lead singer of Oasis is a tough man (meaning... not at all really, but both the media and his agents want you to think he is). INXS and his solo career are hardly pushing cultural boundaries and making innovations either musically or in acceptable social conventions.

It's a bit like calling Elmo from Sesame Street a bad boy in my opinion.
I agree as for his actual persona. But he has the look, which is all I base it on. Especially in the Pretty Vegas video. I like the wife's assessment of "pretty and bad"

I can carry off bad boy.



But, not so pretty.

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Old 11-01-2012, 08:23 PM   #69
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perfect

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For me, it was when I started growing hair on my legs, chest and arms, so right around 13/14 maybe? I remember shaving my legs for the longest time to try and postpone the inevitable. My dad is VERY hairy and masculine, so of course, I was blessed with his genes. I hated having a hairy body. I did what I could to try and keep a womanly appearance, but when you were my age at that point in time, you didn't want to walk around the locker room in middle school/high school looking like that. Times were waaaaay different. Everyone has a little bit of hair, but I have having to take an hour every other day to shave! Too much surface area!

Here's a question I have. Are there different...levels to being transgendered? What I mean is this. Take person A, who feels so strongly that they have to go through the process of physically aligning their bodies with their genders. Then take somebody like me. I know I'm a woman on the inside, but I'm not sure that I want to go forward with any sort of transitioning, aside from shaving my legs, etc., and wearing pretty clothes. Am I...less of a transgender, or not transgender at all? If I knew I could have a complete reassignment surgery with ZERO risk of complications, I'd do it in a heartbeat, but, I'm just too scared to start that process. That's what I struggle with, because I know in my heart and my soul, I'm a woman, but I'm not sure that I'm truly transgendered because I'm not transitioning.

Does that make any sense at all?
Makes perfect sense to this old guy. It's pretty frustrating to read these posts and have absolutely nothing in the way of suggestions. If it does any good at all, you have my sympathy. My wish is for you to be happy and productive.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:53 PM   #70
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I know in my heart and my soul, I'm a woman, but I'm not sure that I'm truly transgendered because I'm not transitioning.
The knowing in your heart and soul part? That's what makes you truly transgendered.

The not transitioning part? That's something that thousands of transgendered humans have lived with. Transition has only been possible for a relatively short time-- and less then that for FTM.

It doesn't matter why you are living un-sex-changed, your sex is not your gender.

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Old 11-03-2012, 05:20 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by stickygirl View Post
And Seamen (I really like Seamen - we have chatted now and again and he's lovely *waves*) but I've chosen my pronoun with care - am I right with that Seamen? I don't care what Seamen is … part time TS, living a life as a very attractive young man but having a sexual need that hovers somewhere between gay and TS. You go for it Seamen - you deserve happiness because you are a beautiful person but, I've no need to lecture you, be careful sweetie! X
Thanks Sticky for your kind words, you really are all heart

Yes, I am he for the most part, though it's a bit complicated. I feel that gender is something that is fluid, rather than distinctly bipolar. I would say that I somewhat fluctuate between he and she, and that while I exclusively prefer the submissive role in relationship dynamics, at the same time I am perfectly okay with how I am. I mean, while I do wish that I had the slender, beautiful body of a woman, I am perfectly fine being who I am, because somehow the ideal image of myself that I have in my head and the actual person that I am coexist with one another without conflict.

I completely agree with Sticky and all the other beautiful people on this thread. Definitely, how a person is on the inside matters more than how one looks on the outside.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:26 PM   #72
Stella_Omega
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Yeah actually for many of us-- it matters a fuckton what we are on the outside. Just that one, single, label-- "trans gender" does not mean anything more than what it says.

But the spirit of your remark is very generous and lovely.
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Old 11-04-2012, 08:46 AM   #73
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Dear All,

I hope you don't mind a complete stranger and newbie stepping out the shadows like this but I couldn't stay in the dark for ever because reading this thread has been wonderful. Apologies if this is all a bit disjointed but there is so much to say in a few paragraphs!

I should introduce myself: I'm 50, born with a male body, which I still own! I've had three long term relationships with the most wonderful women with whom I still keep in touch. Somehow though I never got married, never had kids, somehow it didn't feel right because whilst I loved them, I never felt whatever it is that men and women need to take that leap of faith. Deep down I felt like a fraud and that I was deceiving them, because shamefully hidden away was my desire to be a woman. How could I marry when in 95% of my fantasies, I was a woman?
I had an old-fashioned upbringing from post-war mend-and-make-do parents who worked their butts off to raise four sons and so had no time to broaden their knowledge, though they encouraged me to do so. I was expected to follow the path of an honourable heterosexual man and back then, I simply didn't have the language to explain my own feelings. I knew that, if I said to my mother "I'm a girl in here" it would have broken her heart and shamed her in front of her friends and family. How could I do that to someone who I loved so much and had given me everything I was?
Stickygirl - you made me laugh out loud when you said about making dresses: I made mine in an old barn on the farm but never got caught! I used to hope I'd wake up as a girl - I used to pray so hard for that. Ha! This thread is like UN convention for trans* - Stickygirl, Stacy, Seaman, Sissy, Kate, Luna and Stella... truly a rainbow!

So what should I do now? A few weeks ago I finally told one of my closest female friends ( one of those former girlfriends ) about my life-long feelings. Needless to say she was quite surprised but we're still talking! I had to explain to her that I fantasised about men but....as a woman not as a gay man - it took me years to figure that on my own. But I'm a 6'2" athletic man, so transitioning would be unrealistic and I would most likely upset those closest to me and so make my life a misery - and that is not meant as a criticism of those of you who have transitioned. I wish I could turn the clock back but 'hey'. I can appreciate how shitty dysphoria is ( at last there is a word for it !! ) but I'm at an age where generally people become more philosophical about Life and perhaps resigned to their lot? I'm more concerned now about prejudice against other people than I am about my own situation, to which I've grown accustomed. So if you younger folk happen to hear a guy with grey hair speaking up for you, then he might just be me!

So thank you all for being so honest and sharing such personal thoughts and feelings so openly. I've looked through all the transgender threads here and often found myself saying "Yes, yes, yes - that's me." I wish you could imagine how much that means to me and, I suspect, to other people who have quietly read them and wiped away tears.
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Old 11-04-2012, 10:54 AM   #74
StacyTG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
The knowing in your heart and soul part? That's what makes you truly transgendered.

The not transitioning part? That's something that thousands of transgendered humans have lived with. Transition has only been possible for a relatively short time-- and less then that for FTM.

It doesn't matter why you are living un-sex-changed, your sex is not your gender.

Thanks Stella. Just when I think I've made peace with myself, someone or something comes along and mucks it all up.

*hugs*
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:13 PM   #75
stickygirl
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Hey - thanks for your post Whyaskme and I suppose the generational thing is an issue: understanding your own thoughts now is only a Google away.
The effect we have on our friends and family is something we all have to deal with and isn't something that been raised here before - you mention causing them and yourself misery and I suppose it depends how strongly you feel the need to transition... Are you happy now? Can resigned = happy?

My mother tells me that because I kept wearing my sisters outfits and playing with her toys she suspected before I even had words for it. Sure, there are phases all (?) children go through, but despite her continual nudges, I kept defaulting back to girl and it just made me miserable to be anything else... sheesh - what I put her through.
We had a big sit down talk one day when I was eleven or twelve and she gave me concessions - I could be myself at home, but school was a place where I had to pretend to be someone else... it wasn't a game I enjoyed but I accepted the deal.

So how did you guys strike that balance - between you own happiness and the possible anger and rejection from your peers?
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Last edited by stickygirl : 11-06-2012 at 01:15 PM.
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