Old 03-02-2014, 12:37 PM   #1
Ferrumitzal
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Tags that make sense!

If there's one thing that literotica in known for, it's the horrific tag issue. On other erotica forums, they use very easily-understood tags that anyone can browse through, and I don't understand why literotica refuses to do likewise.

The problem is only compounded when the author includes an 'introductory sentence' with the title.... and it tells you absolutely nothing about the story. What's the point? Think you're being awesome? Your not.

MD = Male Dominant. This means that the main character is a male and the story is going to revolve around him being in charge.

FD = Female Dominant. Just like the MD, except that the character in charge is female.

M/f = There will be an adult male boiking a non-adult female, but doesn't mean the male is dominant.

MM or FF implies that there is homosexual content, even if the story isn't in the "Gay" area. It might be a predominantly M/F story with just a hint of something else, so it doesn't need to go into the 'all gay, all the time' area.

Now, some will say that the tags portal already does that, but it doesn't. Whoever does the tags can make up shit as they go. I've been to the tags portal and seen "collar" right next to "collared", or "blowjob" right next to "oral sex", "brother/sister" is right next to "incest". So, the person looking for stories might miss out on a hundred good ones because they couldn't guess the right tag.

It's imbecilic to think the reader is going to search every iteration possible to find your story. "Male dominant", "Male domination" "Man in charge", whatever! Just list it as MD, M/F, IN, BD and I know right off the bat that it's male-dominant with two adults of opposite gender who happen to be related and are getting into some bondage. All stories with those same tags come up in a search, and from there, I can judge the title and intro sentence to see if it might be something I would like to read.

Add more tags if you like, just make them easily found and understood by the reader. Beast, Furry, Spank, Sch, Gay, WS, Scat, it's not rocket science (RS tag).
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Old 03-02-2014, 01:36 PM   #2
lovecraft68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrumitzal View Post
If there's one thing that literotica in known for, it's the horrific tag issue. On other erotica forums, they use very easily-understood tags that anyone can browse through, and I don't understand why literotica refuses to do likewise.

The problem is only compounded when the author includes an 'introductory sentence' with the title.... and it tells you absolutely nothing about the story. What's the point? Think you're being awesome? Your not.

MD = Male Dominant. This means that the main character is a male and the story is going to revolve around him being in charge.

FD = Female Dominant. Just like the MD, except that the character in charge is female.

M/f = There will be an adult male boiking a non-adult female, but doesn't mean the male is dominant.

MM or FF implies that there is homosexual content, even if the story isn't in the "Gay" area. It might be a predominantly M/F story with just a hint of something else, so it doesn't need to go into the 'all gay, all the time' area.

Now, some will say that the tags portal already does that, but it doesn't. Whoever does the tags can make up shit as they go. I've been to the tags portal and seen "collar" right next to "collared", or "blowjob" right next to "oral sex", "brother/sister" is right next to "incest". So, the person looking for stories might miss out on a hundred good ones because they couldn't guess the right tag.

It's imbecilic to think the reader is going to search every iteration possible to find your story. "Male dominant", "Male domination" "Man in charge", whatever! Just list it as MD, M/F, IN, BD and I know right off the bat that it's male-dominant with two adults of opposite gender who happen to be related and are getting into some bondage. All stories with those same tags come up in a search, and from there, I can judge the title and intro sentence to see if it might be something I would like to read.

Add more tags if you like, just make them easily found and understood by the reader. Beast, Furry, Spank, Sch, Gay, WS, Scat, it's not rocket science (RS tag).
A non adult female? You won't find that here

M/F is pretty much your straight up man/woman coupling.

I see your point and I am not so sure its the site, but authors.'

For me the point is to reach the right audience so I want the tags and my tag line to tell you what you're getting.

I think if I look down my list of 80 or so stories there are only a couple that the title is a little dubious, but the tag line and tags call it out.
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Old 03-02-2014, 02:55 PM   #3
Ferrumitzal
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A lot of sites have age limits on the sexual partners; the lower-case letter is used to indicate someone that's legal according to the site's rules, but not yet 21 (when you're fully adult).

If you look at how the Erotic Mind-control Archive and Storiesonline do it, the tags are all very easy to use and the author gets to assign what tags fit. Yea, you're somewhat limited with only a few dozen tags, but you have plenty of room for a descriptive 'story detail' that goes with your title. So, the reader gets to know what the story's about even though everybody's using the Dewey Decimal system, for lack of a better term.

To give you an idea of just how poorly the site is set up, I went to look at your list of 80 stories so I could use something you're familiar with to illustrate my point. What an incredible waste of time that was!

I go to the Literotica index page and scroll down to where it says "Author Index"

From there, it takes me to a page that is not an index of authors.

Author Index > New Author/Random Author/Most Productive Author/In the Spotlight

What the hell kind of system is that? If I go over to the right side of the page, I can click on any of the story categories that I could have clicked on back at the main index page. But, I have no idea what kinds of stories you write. I might have read some, might not. The name doesn't ring a bell. So, now I have to click on each and every category tag until I find your name.

So, I started at the top and clicked on "Anal" thinking maybe that's your thing. Do they give me a list of every author that's ever written an anal story? Nope. Just the same shit that was on the last page: New, Random, Most Productive.....

I wanted an author index. They advertised an author index. Then they failed to provide an author index. How fucking stupid is that? They actually made the system harder to use.

However, if you scroll all the way down the main index page, you run into the "search the site" section where you can "search members" or view the complete "member list". Now, why in the world do you have so many features doing the same thing? Aren't authors members? Why create an "author index" that doesn't index authors when you already have a "search members" and "member list" link at the bottom of the main index? A lot of the members aren't authors, but all of the authors are members.

So, by creating the false 'author index' all the staff did was increase the confusion. That's the same thing they're doing my not restraining the type/style of tags that can be used.

Last edited by Ferrumitzal : 03-02-2014 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:08 PM   #4
lovecraft68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrumitzal View Post
A lot of sites have age limits on the sexual partners; the lower-case letter is used to indicate someone that's legal according to the site's rules, but not yet 21 (when you're fully adult).

If you look at how the Erotic Mind-control Archive and Storiesonline do it, the tags are all very easy to use and the author gets to assign what tags fit. Yea, you're somewhat limited with only a few dozen tags, but you have plenty of room for a descriptive 'story detail' that goes with your title. So, the reader gets to know what the story's about even though everybody's using the Dewey Decimal system, for lack of a better term.

To give you an idea of just how poorly the site is set up, I went to look at your list of 80 stories so I could use something you're familiar with to illustrate my point. What an incredible waste of time that was!

I go to the Literotica index page and scroll down to where it says "Author Index"

From there, it takes me to a page that is not an index of authors.

Author Index > New Author/Random Author/Most Productive Author/In the Spotlight

What the hell kind of system is that? If I go over to the right side of the page, I can click on any of the story categories that I could have clicked on back at the main index page. But, I have no idea what kinds of stories you write. I might have read some, might not. The name doesn't ring a bell. So, now I have to click on each and every category tag until I find your name.

So, I started at the top and clicked on "Anal" thinking maybe that's your thing. Do they give me a list of every author that's ever written an anal story? Nope. Just the same shit that was on the last page: New, Random, Most Productive.....

I wanted an author index. They advertised an author index. Then they failed to provide an author index. How fucking stupid is that? They actually made the system harder to use.

However, if you scroll all the way down the main index page, you run into the "search the site" section where you can "search members" or view the complete "member list". Now, why in the world do you have so many features doing the same thing? Aren't authors members? Why create an "author index" that doesn't index authors when you already have a "search members" and "member list" link at the bottom of the main index? A lot of the members aren't authors, but all of the authors are members.

So, by creating the false 'author index' all the staff did was increase the confusion. That's the same thing they're doing my not restraining the type/style of tags that can be used.
I have to agree. When I started here the author index was an alphabetical list of authors now I have no clue. You need to know the authors name to find them and if I know their name why am I there.

Lot of screwy shit going on here. I just look in whatever category I am in the mood for at the moment and go from there
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:09 PM   #5
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I can sympathize, but you're complaining to the wrong people. You could send a private message (not an email) to Laurel and Manu, who run the site, if you'd like.

And despite the complaints, which you're not the first to make, Lit is still the largest site of its kind on the net, at least in terms of traffic, from what I know.
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:30 PM   #6
Ferrumitzal
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PM's? Like talking to a brick wall! I've sent a few in the past when I had problems or general questions, and never received anything back from them.

Honestly, considering what they have done, it's impossible to think they'd be open to ideas that would actually function like they're supposed to. Who would ever think that an author index was something other than a list of author information?

Is lit the biggest? Maybe. But not because anything that has to do with the functioning of the site. EMCSA is a niche market and wouldn't get the same amount of traffic. SOL is in the running for biggest/best, but I don't think they're doing the same marketing because a google search for "online erotica" doesn't bring up SOL like it does literotica. Maybe they're happy with that, though.

I can say that I spend far more time over on SOL and their forum than I do here, and it's 100% due to the oddball way literotica is laid out. The quality of writing over there is every bit as good and varied. Same with EMCSA.
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Old 03-02-2014, 06:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrumitzal View Post
PM's? Like talking to a brick wall! I've sent a few in the past when I had problems or general questions, and never received anything back from them.

Honestly, considering what they have done, it's impossible to think they'd be open to ideas that would actually function like they're supposed to. Who would ever think that an author index was something other than a list of author information?

Is lit the biggest? Maybe. But not because anything that has to do with the functioning of the site. EMCSA is a niche market and wouldn't get the same amount of traffic. SOL is in the running for biggest/best, but I don't think they're doing the same marketing because a google search for "online erotica" doesn't bring up SOL like it does literotica. Maybe they're happy with that, though.

I can say that I spend far more time over on SOL and their forum than I do here, and it's 100% due to the oddball way literotica is laid out. The quality of writing over there is every bit as good and varied. Same with EMCSA.
I've said before I think at this point lit falls under "fat and happy" they are by far the biggest and have so many stories and such variation why do they need to "work for it" anymore.

Its frustrating to deal with a lot of the broken features, but it is what it is. I've looked at SOL and can;t even figure out their scoring system.

IN the meantime LIt seems as if its down to 3 or less days for approval which is a big improvement on the 8 it was a month ago.
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Old 03-04-2014, 07:47 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
I've said before I think at this point lit falls under "fat and happy" they are by far the biggest and have so many stories and such variation why do they need to "work for it" anymore.

Its frustrating to deal with a lot of the broken features, but it is what it is. I've looked at SOL and can;t even figure out their scoring system.

IN the meantime LIt seems as if its down to 3 or less days for approval which is a big improvement on the 8 it was a month ago.
Fair comment and SOL is a poor relation.

I'm just scared Manu and Laurel will have had enough, packed their doubloons in their rucksacks and decamped. What the heck do we do then?
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:56 PM   #9
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Even if the site is not going to change how tags are managed, authors can still do better. I see a lot of stories where the author apparently doesn't understand that the tags might be how someone searches for their story. Tags like "Ron fucked" or "did Mary again" or "on the pillow" or "got busy" are not phrases that anyone will ever search for, and so are completely useless, unless I'm missing something. We ought to think through how people will search, and use those terms. I can do better at this myself. I have tended to leave out terms that are in the text, but someone might not search the text.
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Old 03-06-2014, 07:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecraft68 View Post
I've said before I think at this point lit falls under "fat and happy" they are by far the biggest and have so many stories and such variation why do they need to "work for it" anymore.

Its frustrating to deal with a lot of the broken features, but it is what it is. I've looked at SOL and can;t even figure out their scoring system.

IN the meantime LIt seems as if its down to 3 or less days for approval which is a big improvement on the 8 it was a month ago.
This place is simple compared to SOL, I really have problems getting to many of the portals there. And their forum is hosted by Google which is...
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Old 03-06-2014, 08:08 AM   #11
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The odds are that where you saw tags like that, it was either the author not entering any, or a story from before tags were activated.

If I remember correctly, not entering tags used to automatically generate some from early in the story, and the same thing happened to stories that were on the site prior to tags. It's been a while, so I can't be 100% on that.

In recent years, Laurel seems to have taken a more active role while approving stories - modifying and adding tags. The modifications seem aimed toward a degree of standardization, and the additions seem to come from a standardized pool.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jolly_rogering View Post
Even if the site is not going to change how tags are managed, authors can still do better. I see a lot of stories where the author apparently doesn't understand that the tags might be how someone searches for their story. Tags like "Ron fucked" or "did Mary again" or "on the pillow" or "got busy" are not phrases that anyone will ever search for, and so are completely useless, unless I'm missing something. We ought to think through how people will search, and use those terms. I can do better at this myself. I have tended to leave out terms that are in the text, but someone might not search the text.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:59 PM   #12
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Thanks, RejectReality, I didn't know any of that.
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Old 03-06-2014, 03:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RejectReality View Post
The odds are that where you saw tags like that, it was either the author not entering any, or a story from before tags were activated.

If I remember correctly, not entering tags used to automatically generate some from early in the story, and the same thing happened to stories that were on the site prior to tags. It's been a while, so I can't be 100% on that.

In recent years, Laurel seems to have taken a more active role while approving stories - modifying and adding tags. The modifications seem aimed toward a degree of standardization, and the additions seem to come from a standardized pool.
Yep. I've certainly seen some reasonable tags added to my submissions, presumably by Laurel. But going back and updating tags on the archive would be a huge effort; I wonder if it'd be possible to come up with a crowd-sourcing solution.
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Old 03-06-2014, 07:31 PM   #14
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In recent years, Laurel seems to have taken a more active role while approving stories - modifying and adding tags.
That has, I am sure, also lead to a few funny moments for authors. I know it has for me.

She added a brother /sister tag to a story of mine that is two sisters. You don't know that till the end of the story though.

She moved a story of mine into the incest category that has no sex in it. ( Least of all between the father and his 17 year old daughter, who the story is about) I posted it for non-erotic. Now this story line, might at some point, end up in incest but not that particular story. Lol.

I'm sure there are others out there.

Thanks for the laugh, Laurel.

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