She's way way.... WAY out of my league. How do I handle her?

[Christopher2012]

Originally Posted by njlauren

Chris, think about something, Mary is this really bright gal, who is doing well in school, and yet for some reason she expressed an interest in you and opened the door to you. If her intelligence (or your lack of intelligence as you see it) was an issue, she wouldn't have bothered with you, but she did.

Your real problem isn't that others are so much better then you, or she is 'way out of your league', it is that you have a lack of self confidence, a major one, and what happens is that finds all kind of excuses to hide away, slink away, whatever. Like I said, there is no rational basis to what you are doing,it makes no sense, why would the gal show an interest in you if you are such a slug? Friend of mine wrote a series of novels about a character like you, he could never believe he was good enough. He finally gets a date with this gorgeous women a lot of men would die to have time with, and he almost blows it, because he tells her he isn't worth of her, etc...and she takes his head off, and tells him that is insulting to her, that he is telling her she has no taste in men, and is truly insulted......the point being is that when a gal shows interest, it is because she likes you. Someday start looking at couples out there, real couples, and you see mismatches of all kinds, the beauty with the ordinary guy, the genius with a wife who is merely bright, you name it and it is because people fall in love, are attracted to people because they are, they don't sit there with a fucking checklist and say "he better be smarter then me, he better look like Tom Brady, etc etc"...there is a word for gals like that, known as stupid bitches, and very few women outside the LW Loving wives stories are like that....lot more men like that, but we won't go there....

Want to know a little fact? In life you are going to always meet people who are smarter, better looking, can throw a football 50 yards, can sing, can write a killer song, whatever, that is life. I worked for a company founded by a guy who is 15 years younger then I am, he is probably now a multi millionaire, is a bright SOB who graduated from one the toughest tech schools in this country with a 4.0.....and yet he is a friend. Plus in many ways, I have done things he couldn't do. Measuring yourself like that is idiotic, is natural, but it is still idiotic.

Blaming pharmacy school, blaming your mother, blaming the color of the moon that day, your height (or lack of height) and so forth in the end are excuses, blame all you want, but as they say on a commercial for dark eye circles, it is what you do about it that matters.

The fact that you don't want to get counseling or help tells me frankly you are scared shitless, because one of the things therapy or counseling does is it takes away the excuses, they won't let you do that. I don't know what you know about therapy, but it sounds to me like you have been reading what scientology says about it or what right wing drivel heads who claim that is all mumbo-jumbo liberal excuses not to behave 'right', but it isn't. Therapists don't drug you up (can't, they aren't MD's), talk therapy is getting to the route of the problem and is also about counseling, offering suggestions, about how to deal with things like this.

Without getting to the bottom of this, you are going to end up a pretty lonely person, or are going to find someone you feel 'worthy' of who may not be much of a match (often people lacking self confidence end up with someone who is very incompatible with themselves, who literally is way below them in a lot of ways).

Yeah, but you're assuming that she actually is interested based on what I've said. I believe that my perception is that she has shown interest yet I know better. I'm am at at 0% with women in my lifetime. I have verbally expressed interest in 4 women and I got shot down every time. My first semi-girlfriend doesn't count because she basically punched me in the face if I didn't tell her that I liked her.

How do you expect to get a girlfriend if you have a hard time even with friends? I don't even hang out with people outside of work and school. I'm boring.

Let's say I get a date with this girl. What do I say? "Well Mary, I don't really do a whole lot other than work and sit on a forum bitching about my life." I mean, come on dude... Getting a date with Mary would be infinitely more of a burden than her declining.

Life I said in the first place. I'm not putting her on a pedestal. I actually suck. What's interesting about me? Nothing. It doesn't matter if I have Asperger's or if I go to counseling. Nothing changes the fact that I have no life.

That's what I'm saying. And that's why my original question was "How do I handle her?" How do I manage my inability to be interesting?

[Christopher2012]

Originally Posted by serpentwrap

I totally, totally, respect your verdict. Dont let others tell you otherwise. Given the circumstances, this could well be the blessing in disguise that might have eluded you. I bet a sexier and more beautiful and far more loving Mary is just lurking around the corner.

All the very best, mate...

P.S: Someday when you find the perfect Mary for yourself, do send me a PM, or not...

Well, I thought the same thing at one point. Looking back on every girl that I've ever liked, I thank God that I never actually landed any one of them.

True story.

Expect a PM about 45 years from now.

[bailadora]

Originally Posted by Christopher2012

How do you expect to get a girlfriend if you have a hard time even with friends? I don't even hang out with people outside of work and school. I'm boring. <snip> I actually suck. What's interesting about me? Nothing.

At this point, it's not even about the girl anymore. Honest question: If YOU don't like yourself, why should anyone else (outside of family)?

You keep bitching about your genetics, your looks, your weight, yada, yada, yada. But from where I'm sitting, the most unattractive thing about you is your unwillingness to take ownership of your problems (whatever they may be) and DO something about them. If YOU don't care enough to improve your life situation, why the hell should anyone else give a flying fuck?

I know that sounds unsympathetic and harsh, but let's face facts here. The only one truly capable of effecting change (for better or worse) in your life is you.

[ohjanesays]

I really don't think you'll change your ways no matter what anyone says on this thread. But maybe in a couple years, nature will take it's course and things will be less awkward for you. I think you're still young and social interactions seem hard, but give it a couple years of working and getting to know your coworkers as well as customers (I'm not sure if you're going into retail pharmacy) and your social skills will be a bit more developed than your current state now. I used to be pretty similar to you in terms of thinking I was boring and not really being able to hold conversations with people outside of work/school and being stubborn as a mule when it came to relationships, but the key difference was I didn't have this self-crippling low self esteem. Being amongst my peers and peers that were smarter/better than I was really did wonders for me socially. I went from being that really quiet employee that didn't know what to say at office parties to knowing every single person in the whole company and being super respected by all my colleagues. I didn't do anything...it just kinda happened naturally and gets better withe time and age. You can be Debbie Downer and say "this will never happen to me" but just see how it goes.

Also, I understand how hard it is to just ask someone out. But I'm just wondering, how do you fare with girls online (such as Lit)?

[Bramblethorn]

Originally Posted by Christopher2012

I've already considered Asperger's. I don't know if I have it or not. Would it really matter if I found out that I did? It wouldn't change my perspective. It would probably make me feel even worse about myself.

Depends on the person. My partner found it really helped her to have that diagnosis. It helped her make sense of some things she'd noticed in her life, it highlighted some other patterns she hadn't previously noticed, and it pointed her towards some of the coping methods that other Aspies find useful in dealing with the world.

Me, I consider myself "Asperger's-ambiguous" - I have a lot of the Aspie traits, and I used to see a counsellor who specialised in Asperger's, but I told her I wasn't looking for a yes/no diagnosis. For me, I find it useful to look at the stereotypical Aspie thought/behaviour patterns and think about which of those might apply to me, without needing to pigeonhole myself as a person. The counsellor was quite willing to work with me on that basis, and I found it quite helpful.

As an example: I'm very good at the technical side of my job, but when it comes to social interaction... the way I sometimes describe it is that even something as simple as writing a straightforward email to a workmate can become a mental task like solving a Sudoku puzzle. It's not impossible, but I have to go through a very deliberate thought process, it drains my batteries, and I can miss some really obvious things if I'm not looking for them. And it gets to be a real time-management issue if it takes me half an hour to write a short email. (It's easier with people who I know well, or when I'm anonymous, as I am here.) So we worked on ways to deal with that.

[pmann]

Originally Posted by Christopher2012

Alright, you struck the wrong chord with me here. I don't really even know what you want to hear from me on this one.

First of all, I'm not even going to argue with you about the salary. You chose your profession, and I chose mine. My primary reasoning for choosing pharmacy (besides the fact that I enjoyed being a pharmacy technician) was that I wanted to be able to have a family and not live from paycheck to paycheck. So yes, money was a big-time incentive. Besides, pharmacists get paid bank to work their asses off and not make any mistakes at the same time. Not an easy task, I promise. You'll hear over and over how burnt out pharmacists get while working at the big chains (CVS, Walgreens).

Secondly, I never asked to be a doctor. Pharmacy is progressing in a weird way and the doctorate is new to the field. Pharmacists are pushing to be more clinical. So, you have a vast array of pharmacists from the retail pharmacists (CVS, Walgreens) to the specialists in the hospitals. Our programs are designed more toward therapeutics these days. Personally, I've always wanted to be a retail pharmacist. So, I felt like I was in the wrong place. Sure, I need to know therapeutics but not specifically enough to diagnose someone. We're taught everything from labs to specific treatment options (non-pharmacologic and pharmacologic). Ask most veteran CVS pharmacists a difficult diagnostic/lab question and they'll look at you funny.

Finally, I'm not a doctor of pharmacology (Ph.D.). I'm a doctor of pharmacy (PharmD). Pharmacy does not equal pharmacology. Pharmacy is defined as the combination of pharmacology, medicinal chemistry, and therapeutics.

What are you studying exactly? Just curious.

Edit: I don't think a Ph.D. in pharmacology exists actually. My bad.

I'm still baffled that this guy is going to be making $118k a year and he's bitching about it. You're going to be making good money. But you know what? When you go to grad school you are bound to be around smart people. I am an engineer. It would be like me bitching about how smart and how knowledgable all these damned engineers are.

The thing is, you're really just looking for negativity. You've either had an unhealthy upbringing or something to make you that way. But the thing is, you won't be positive no matter what. It is never going to be easier than your current situation. Her friends say the girl likes you. You already have her phone number. So you've got the toughest parts of the puzzle done.

Either way, I wish you the best. It sounds like you've created many self fulfilling prophecies.

[Christopher2012]

Originally Posted by pmann

I'm still baffled that this guy is going to be making $118k a year and he's bitching about it. You're going to be making good money. But you know what? When you go to grad school you are bound to be around smart people. I am an engineer. It would be like me bitching about how smart and how knowledgable all these damned engineers are.

The thing is, you're really just looking for negativity. You've either had an unhealthy upbringing or something to make you that way. But the thing is, you won't be positive no matter what. It is never going to be easier than your current situation. Her friends say the girl likes you. You already have her phone number. So you've got the toughest parts of the puzzle done.

Either way, I wish you the best. It sounds like you've created many self fulfilling prophecies.

I have not one time complained about potentially making $118,000 per year.

Besides, I'm probably not going to accept the job offer anyway. I really don't want to move. So, I got in touch with another company who said they may call me in for an interview. They don't pay well, but it's a much more enjoyable environment (and close to home). I think they said the pay would be around $53 per hour.

Obviously, I'm trying to hold on to my first offer as long as possible so I don't lose it. Hopefully, Company #2 hurries the fuck up.

[Christopher2012]

Originally Posted by bailadora

At this point, it's not even about the girl anymore. Honest question: If YOU don't like yourself, why should anyone else (outside of family)?

You keep bitching about your genetics, your looks, your weight, yada, yada, yada. But from where I'm sitting, the most unattractive thing about you is your unwillingness to take ownership of your problems (whatever they may be) and DO something about them. If YOU don't care enough to improve your life situation, why the hell should anyone else give a flying fuck?

I know that sounds unsympathetic and harsh, but let's face facts here. The only one truly capable of effecting change (for better or worse) in your life is you.

I think my problems are related to dopamine levels. Dopamine is associated with motivation and happiness. Dopamine is also the cause for many recreation drug highs.

A question that I've always asked myself: How the hell did I make it to pharmacy school being such a lazy bum? After all, I had a 2.2 GPA when I graduated high school. I played video games all the time, and nothing seemed to matter to me.

Well, in my last year of high school, I met a girl - that semi-girlfriend I was talking about. I liked her a lot, a whole lot. I spent as much time with her as I could. And we were together for about 7-8 months. We broke up on the day of my orientation to college. We we just going separate ways. Now, obviously she broke up with me... but I kinda figured it was coming.

Anyway, during the time that me and her were together, a healthy amount of dopamine was built up in my CNS. It created a positive Christopher. It created a Christopher who was motivated to study and driven to succeed. That dopamine made me unstoppable, and I coasted into pharmacy school with it.

But now, I'm back to my low-dopamine self. I honestly believe that if I could get a girlfriend that I could become a better person. I think I'll be positive. I think I'll be motivated. Or the other option is that I could just start smoking crack.

Eh.... maybe I'm just crazy. Probably. But it is a strange coincidence.

[Christopher2012]

Originally Posted by ohjanesays

Also, I understand how hard it is to just ask someone out. But I'm just wondering, how do you fare with girls online (such as Lit)?

Well obviously, online interactions don't mean a whole lot to me.

If you met me in person, you would probably not think I'm like this. But you'd probably only see me at my job and whatever else is associated with pharmacy.

And yeah, I've had other problems that docs said were behavioral. I have super sensitive hearing and for the longest time couldn't go to a club. Over the years, I am now able to. Also, I've had urinary problems associated with anxiety. Docs performed a cystoscope and said nothing was wrong with me. Again, associated with anxiety. It worked out.

These problems still occur but not nearly as much as when I was 18.

[Christopher2012]

Originally Posted by Bramblethorn

Depends on the person. My partner found it really helped her to have that diagnosis. It helped her make sense of some things she'd noticed in her life, it highlighted some other patterns she hadn't previously noticed, and it pointed her towards some of the coping methods that other Aspies find useful in dealing with the world.

Me, I consider myself "Asperger's-ambiguous" - I have a lot of the Aspie traits, and I used to see a counsellor who specialised in Asperger's, but I told her I wasn't looking for a yes/no diagnosis. For me, I find it useful to look at the stereotypical Aspie thought/behaviour patterns and think about which of those might apply to me, without needing to pigeonhole myself as a person. The counsellor was quite willing to work with me on that basis, and I found it quite helpful.

As an example: I'm very good at the technical side of my job, but when it comes to social interaction... the way I sometimes describe it is that even something as simple as writing a straightforward email to a workmate can become a mental task like solving a Sudoku puzzle. It's not impossible, but I have to go through a very deliberate thought process, it drains my batteries, and I can miss some really obvious things if I'm not looking for them. And it gets to be a real time-management issue if it takes me half an hour to write a short email. (It's easier with people who I know well, or when I'm anonymous, as I am here.) So we worked on ways to deal with that.

Well, I don't really think even considering it would be significantly beneficial in my case. Like I said, it would just add another thing to my list of why my life sucks.

I was watching this episode of South Park where Kyle is dying from a sickness and suddenly believes there is no God. So everybody around him starts telling him the story of Job and how God took all of Job's children and his whole livelihood. At the end of the story, Kyle goes "Wait... so God did all that horrible stuff to Job just to prove a point to Satan? Why would He do that??!!"

Haha I still think that's funny.

[pmann]

Originally Posted by Christopher2012

Well, I don't really think even considering it would be significantly beneficial in my case. Like I said, it would just add another thing to my list of why my life sucks.

I was watching this episode of South Park where Kyle is dying from a sickness and suddenly believes there is no God. So everybody around him starts telling him the story of Job and how God took all of Job's children and his whole livelihood. At the end of the story, Kyle goes "Wait... so God did all that horrible stuff to Job just to prove a point to Satan? Why would He do that??!!"

Haha I still think that's funny.

Cartmanland.

[Christopher2012]

Originally Posted by pmann

Cartmanland.

Oh yeah! That was the episode. That was a good one.

[RobertBarre]

I love this thread! It's a bit of a train-wreck, but it's a fascinating and (mostly) sincere train-wreck. Christopher, first let me give you credit for hanging in there with this thread against some hard feedback. As much as I've been surprised by how little tenacity you've shown w/r/t the girl who inspired this thread, I have been equally surprised by how much tenacity you've shown w/r/t staying engaged with this conversation.

Here is, I think, why you have some fans here, me among them:

A) You've been fearless about presenting yourself in an honest and unflattering light.
B) Your dysfunctions are our dysfunctions, maybe dialed up a notch or three. We've all been there -- and kind of still live there.
C) Your girl problems seem so fixable.

You have received a ton of great, great advice in this thread. Here is what I might add at this point: Everything takes practice. Everything. This includes relationshipping. How many hours have you invested in your education? Would 5000 be a bad guess? More? How many hours have you invested in real-life relating to women romantically? I'm guessing that's a much, much smaller number. This has predictable consequences for your relative proficiency and confidence, yes? The only time-tested way to improve one's proficiency and confidence is by putting in the time *and accepting the inevitable failures and mistakes* that come with being a novice. This is part of why watching you bail on this girl at every opportunity has been so painful. All the other dating scenarios will be *more* challenging than this one, and already you're quitting.
How many hours have you spent *fantasizing* about connecting with women romantically? I'm guessing, and here again I speak from experience, that this number is much, much larger than the number of hours you've spent connecting to women in fact. If we are not careful, it is easy to become more proficient and comfortable fantasizing about doing something than we are actually doing that something. I know that place. It's an empty, unhappy place to be. The door is wide open, Christopher. Walk out of your confinement.

[Goey]

Chris I think your main problem here is the fact that you think asking her out will lead to some giant judgement. If you make this a huge deal you're never going to get anywhere. If you ask her out and she says no it isn't a huge judgement on your character or some kind or some way of condemning you. You're simply not for her and that's that.

If she says yes, then take it from there. It's no big deal, it is what it is. You've built it up into some giant wall and thus self prophesied your failure before you've even tried. If you won't give yourself a chance - no one will.

[Christopher2012]

Originally Posted by Goey

Chris I think your main problem here is the fact that you think asking her out will lead to some giant judgement. If you make this a huge deal you're never going to get anywhere. If you ask her out and she says no it isn't a huge judgement on your character or some kind or some way of condemning you. You're simply not for her and that's that.

If she says yes, then take it from there. It's no big deal, it is what it is. You've built it up into some giant wall and thus self prophesied your failure before you've even tried. If you won't give yourself a chance - no one will.

No, the problem is that I'm scared to death of her. I'm just scared to see her, to date her, to talk to her (on that level). That's the problem.

I am flat out terrified of showing vulnerability to her and allowing her to tear me apart emotionally. I'm also terrified of looking like a complete and utter moron by basically telling her that I believe she may also feel the same way about me when she never gave any signals in the first place. I'm scared of other people watching from outside wondering wtf I was thinking believing this girl could possibly like a guy like me. I'm scared of going out with her and her realizing she made a mistake. I'm scared of her realizing how little I know about my own profession. I'm scared about her realizing that there are way better options out there in terms of guys. I'm scared of guys walking past us at bars seeing her with a pathetic fucking POS like me. I'm scared of her friends seeing her with me. I'm scared of her having to break it to me that she doesn't really see us going anywhere.

That's the problem.

The chance that I could get her to go out with me - probably moderate. The chance that I'm good enough for her - almost the chances of me winning the Mega-Millions.

[FakeaSmile]

Originally Posted by Christopher2012

No, the problem is that I'm scared to death of her. I'm just scared to see her, to date her, to talk to her (on that level). That's the problem.

I am flat out terrified of showing vulnerability to her and allowing her to tear me apart emotionally. I'm also terrified of looking like a complete and utter moron by basically telling her that I believe she may also feel the same way about me when she never gave any signals in the first place. I'm scared of other people watching from outside wondering wtf I was thinking believing this girl could possibly like a guy like me. I'm scared of going out with her and her realizing she made a mistake. I'm scared of her realizing how little I know about my own profession. I'm scared about her realizing that there are way better options out there in terms of guys. I'm scared of guys walking past us at bars seeing her with a pathetic fucking POS like me. I'm scared of her friends seeing her with me. I'm scared of her having to break it to me that she doesn't really see us going anywhere.

That's the problem.

The chance that I could get her to go out with me - probably moderate. The chance that I'm good enough for her - almost the chances of me winning the Mega-Millions.

That's a scary way to live your life being scared of everything
You only get one life you need to live it before it's too late and you end up saying "If only"

[loquere]

Talk to her instead of talking about her with the scum of the world!

[Christopher2012]

Originally Posted by RobertBarre

I love this thread! It's a bit of a train-wreck, but it's a fascinating and (mostly) sincere train-wreck. Christopher, first let me give you credit for hanging in there with this thread against some hard feedback. As much as I've been surprised by how little tenacity you've shown w/r/t the girl who inspired this thread, I have been equally surprised by how much tenacity you've shown w/r/t staying engaged with this conversation.

Here is, I think, why you have some fans here, me among them:

A) You've been fearless about presenting yourself in an honest and unflattering light.
B) Your dysfunctions are our dysfunctions, maybe dialed up a notch or three. We've all been there -- and kind of still live there.
C) Your girl problems seem so fixable.

You have received a ton of great, great advice in this thread. Here is what I might add at this point: Everything takes practice. Everything. This includes relationshipping. How many hours have you invested in your education? Would 5000 be a bad guess? More? How many hours have you invested in real-life relating to women romantically? I'm guessing that's a much, much smaller number. This has predictable consequences for your relative proficiency and confidence, yes? The only time-tested way to improve one's proficiency and confidence is by putting in the time *and accepting the inevitable failures and mistakes* that come with being a novice. This is part of why watching you bail on this girl at every opportunity has been so painful. All the other dating scenarios will be *more* challenging than this one, and already you're quitting.
How many hours have you spent *fantasizing* about connecting with women romantically? I'm guessing, and here again I speak from experience, that this number is much, much larger than the number of hours you've spent connecting to women in fact. If we are not careful, it is easy to become more proficient and comfortable fantasizing about doing something than we are actually doing that something. I know that place. It's an empty, unhappy place to be. The door is wide open, Christopher. Walk out of your confinement.

Well, one thing that keeps me from "practicing" is the belief that there is one special girl out there. I've always believed that. Ever since I was a teenager, I'd always sit outside and stare at the stars wondering where and who this amazing girl was.

I never go out and look at "prospects." Anytime I see a new girl, I don't think of her as a potential date. Instead, I fixate myself on certain girls who are in specific situations which make them special.

Let's face it: Mary isn't special. A work-friend stomped on me (figuratively haha) one day. He basically said something along these lines: "Dude, Mary is not that great. She's a smoker, a cat person, a faaaaaar left-winger who believes you're weird for carrying a gun in your car, and her parents are divorced leaving her with weird trust issues. She's had horrible relationships in the past, and she's a freak who goes to bed at 7pm and gets up at 4am. Yeah, sure... she's smart but the chick spends 99% of her time studying."

But still, I still believe she's perfect because of all I've said in the previous posts. I did this with my semi-girlfriend, too. I felt like she was perfect because I loved her mom and other similar coincidences (long story).

Now, on the other hand, I have another side of me. I have a whole new side that doesn't want to date or marry or have kids. The reason is because there are so many divorced people who have kids. So many marriages go down the toilet. I don't want that to happen to me. I've worked too hard to fail. I've worked too hard to go through the pain of divorcing a woman and leaving the kids with separate parents.

I could always just save up money and enjoy life. I can buy a nice house, a decent car, and just do whatever I want. I don't have to answer to anyone. I can be free. After all, even if I do enjoy the few years I love a girl... I may forget that I love her. Now THAT is a great and probable risk. It's not something that I want to live through.

But if I meet another perfect girl, I'll do everything in my power to ask her out. I may not have the courage, but I'll try again. And I'll try again and again and again... maybe one day it'll happen. But right now, I'm super disappointed. There are so many emotions and feelings in my head, and they're very conflicting feelings.

[Christopher2012]

Originally Posted by FakeaSmile

That's a scary way to live your life being scared of everything
You only get one life you need to live it before it's too late and you end up saying "If only"

Yeah you say that now... But if you were the one in her position, you'd be like "Peace, I'm out."

...yes you would.

........oh, yes you would.

...............Uh-huh, yes you would.

..........................you would.

[Christopher2012]

Originally Posted by loquere

Talk to her instead of talking about her with the scum of the world!

I don't get it.

[FakeaSmile]

Originally Posted by Christopher2012

Yeah you say that now... But if you were the one in her position, you'd be like "Peace, I'm out."

...yes you would.

........oh, yes you would.

...............Uh-huh, yes you would.

..........................you would.

Well you'll never find out until you ask her but no doubt you'll wait until it's too late then you'll be able to wallow in self pity and tell yourself she never would have wanted you anyway

Be brave and make a move!

[RobertBarre]

Originally Posted by Christopher2012

Yeah you say that now... But if you were the one in her position, you'd be like "Peace, I'm out."

Of course that's a possibility -- maybe even a probability -- as would be the case for any of us. But is that *possible* failure (along with some non-zero chance of success, even of the temporary sort) really worse than the *guaranteed* failure to which you are consigning yourself by quitting? I think that question is the heart of this thread.

[Christopher2012]

Originally Posted by FakeaSmile

Well you'll never find out until you ask her but no doubt you'll wait until it's too late then you'll be able to wallow in self pity and tell yourself she never would have wanted you anyway

Be brave and make a move!

Oh well the time's up now. She's gone.

[FakeaSmile]

Originally Posted by Christopher2012

Oh well the time's up now. She's gone.

Should have made your move sooner!!

[Christopher2012]

Originally Posted by RobertBarre

Of course that's a possibility -- maybe even a probability -- as would be the case for any of us. But is that *possible* failure (along with some non-zero chance of success, even of the temporary sort) really worse than the *guaranteed* failure to which you are consigning yourself by quitting? I think that question is the heart of this thread.

The simple concept of failing isn't the point here. Oh, I've failed plenty of times with women. I sat in the friend zone for half of pharmacy school. Trust me, failure is common... almost to the point of being nearly inevitable.

I guess another problem is that failing would be like burning a bridge. Once I've failed, I feel like I've lost all potential contact with this person or anyone around them. I'll have to isolate myself from their existence. And since these girls don't really ever exit my life due to them being pharmacists (or students), then it makes it a really hard gamble to take.

Another thing is that I literally feel *stupid* for telling these girls indirectly that I believe they may see something in me. It's embarrassing to get shot down... And it's more embarrassing at different levels depending on the situation. I may not care what some chick at a club sees in me... but this perfect girl that I know from school would tear my world apart if she thought "Holy shit... Chris just told me that he liked me... Uhh... wonder what kind of vibes he was seeing..?"

And like I said, a "Yes" would be the end of the world. The risk is much greater then. In undergrad one time, I had a friend reveal this devastating truth. It's not the rejection thats going to kill me. It's if she said "yes." And the reason is simple: I'd have no earthly idea what to do. This guy was a chick magnet, and he tried to help me. But at the time, I didn't have such terrible confidence issues. But anyway, the point is that I have no idea what to do if she says "yes."