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Old 06-20-2012, 06:10 PM   #126
ownedsubgal
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Originally Posted by BiBunny View Post
Interestingly enough, sleep deprivation has been shown to help with depression in unipolar patients. I don't (intentionally) do this to myself because after a couple of nights of it, it'd bring on mania full force, but I thought it was interesting.
now that's strange. i wonder how many lifelong unipolar depressives they've studied, as opposed to the new mommies and such. my depression causes insomnia (my brain racing with thoughts of the past/present/future and every drop of pain within), to the point where some nights i do not sleep for one minute, and it certainly does not make me feel better in the morning. there's just exhaustion and impaired concentration on top of debilitating depression...so uh yeah. weird.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:14 PM   #127
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now that's strange. i wonder how many lifelong unipolar depressives they've studied, as opposed to the new mommies and such. my depression causes insomnia (my brain racing with thoughts of the past/present/future and every drop of pain within), to the point where some nights i do not sleep for one minute, and it certainly does not make me feel better in the morning. there's just exhaustion and impaired concentration on top of debilitating depression...so uh yeah. weird.
Don't hold me to this, but I think the key to it is the type of depression you have. For people with melancholic depression, who usually have insomnia with their depression, it wouldn't work. But for people with atypical depression, who usually have hypersomnia with their depression, it would.

When I'm depressed, it's of the atypical variety, and I sleep too much. If I make myself get up after 8 or 9 hours of sleep, I feel better than if I let myself sleep until my depressed brain allows me to get up. But that's not technically deprivation, I guess, so it probably doesn't count.

ETA: They've studied it off and on since the 70s, but I was lazy and just picked the first article that came up when I Googled "depression sleep deprivation treatment."
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:41 PM   #128
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Natue is my second biggest stress reliever.

Choosing to sit on my porch while drinking my morning coffee, I quietly absorbed all the good vibrations that birdsong gives me.

Stillness steeped into my pores.

The hubs practically sat on me when he joined my perch, "Why are you up so early?" After a grin and a well placed kiss, I roughed up his back. "Birdwatching."

Mountain hiking and dark chocolate is on the agenda this evening.

*hugs group*
Nature is my absolute biggest stress reliever.

I am just coming to grips with, for lack of a better term, the bubble that I have been living in for the past 6 years. I went through some pretty heavy stuff, in a very short period of time, and I am just now discovering that during these years, I haven't been myself at all.
I was strong, like I was supposed to be.
I was stoic, like I was supposed to be.
I took care of everyone, like I was supposed to do...

but I wasn't taking care of myself (there's that word again...)

The story goes on, but cutting to the chase, being out in nature saves me.

*hugs you back and lights a cozy campfire*
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:30 PM   #129
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Talk therapy is no more a miracle cure than anything else. It works for some things and doesn't work for others. I can assure you that I can't "work out my issues" by talking myself out of being bipolar, but the meds put the quietus on that shit in a hurry.

This attitude pisses me off.
I never said it was, nor did I tell people not to take their meds. Most of the people going into therapy don't have bipolar syndrome or things on that level, they have issues like relatively standard depression, phobias, ptsd and the like and those can be treated by talk therapy. What I wrote about has been discussed widly in professional journals and every study has shown for standard treatable issues that talk therapy may be more effective in actually helping people move beyond their issues....people are put on Prozac or Welbutrin because insurance companies think it is more cost effective and those don't help people with the underlying issues, and that is the point. Serious brain chemistry issues, something like bipolar or schizophrenia, are not going to be cured with talk therapy or frankly with the meds, the medicines used for those have to be taken because without them the person reverts back. I understand your sensitivity to the issue and I can understand it, but please read what I wrote before jumping to conclusions, I didn't tell people they should drop medication and see a therapist, I simply said that for things people routinely go to therapists for that insurance companies are heavy with medications because they think it is cheaper.....and this has been written about ad infinitum. Not al people respond to therapists either, mental health issues are complex and it is always a case by case basis, and it would be idiotic to say 'meds don't work for anything' as it would be to tell a person with severe bipolar symptoms that the answer is to take a high colonic and go on a long walk (and yes, folks, that was at one time a common prescription for certain kinds of 'hysteria' and the like, brits especially seemed obsessed with colon cleansing .

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Old 06-21-2012, 12:13 AM   #130
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Don't hold me to this, but I think the key to it is the type of depression you have. For people with melancholic depression, who usually have insomnia with their depression, it wouldn't work. But for people with atypical depression, who usually have hypersomnia with their depression, it would.

When I'm depressed, it's of the atypical variety, and I sleep too much. If I make myself get up after 8 or 9 hours of sleep, I feel better than if I let myself sleep until my depressed brain allows me to get up. But that's not technically deprivation, I guess, so it probably doesn't count.

ETA: They've studied it off and on since the 70s, but I was lazy and just picked the first article that came up when I Googled "depression sleep deprivation treatment."
I wonder if they're looking at this kind of depression from the wrong angle. I wonder if it's possible that sleep problems cause depression instead of depression causing sleep problems. For instance, with people who don't sleep I know (cause my mom had this issue) that helping them sleep can do wonders for their depression and now you're saying that for those who sleep too much that depriving them of sleep helps.

Things that make you go hm.
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:39 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by njlauren View Post
I never said it was, nor did I tell people not to take their meds. Most of the people going into therapy don't have bipolar syndrome or things on that level, they have issues like relatively standard depression, phobias, ptsd and the like and those can be treated by talk therapy. What I wrote about has been discussed widly in professional journals and every study has shown for standard treatable issues that talk therapy may be more effective in actually helping people move beyond their issues....people are put on Prozac or Welbutrin because insurance companies think it is more cost effective and those don't help people with the underlying issues, and that is the point. Serious brain chemistry issues, something like bipolar or schizophrenia, are not going to be cured with talk therapy or frankly with the meds, the medicines used for those have to be taken because without them the person reverts back. I understand your sensitivity to the issue and I can understand it, but please read what I wrote before jumping to conclusions, I didn't tell people they should drop medication and see a therapist, I simply said that for things people routinely go to therapists for that insurance companies are heavy with medications because they think it is cheaper.....and this has been written about ad infinitum. Not al people respond to therapists either, mental health issues are complex and it is always a case by case basis, and it would be idiotic to say 'meds don't work for anything' as it would be to tell a person with severe bipolar symptoms that the answer is to take a high colonic and go on a long walk (and yes, folks, that was at one time a common prescription for certain kinds of 'hysteria' and the like, brits especially seemed obsessed with colon cleansing .
I apologize for reading it incorrectly.

The problem is that most people don't have experience with severe mental illness. Like you say, the majority of those in treatment have mild depression and/or anxiety issues. That's a good thing. Nobody should have to be severely mentally ill.

But when people generalize across the vast spectrum that is Mental Illness, that's can be harmful because they often assume that even those of us who are stark raving mad should be able to control it with a little self-discipline or whatever, which is fucking ridiculous. As you say, bipolar, schizophrenia, schizoaffective, etc. pretty much have to be treated with medication because they aren't situational problems.

Anyway, I'm sorry I misunderstood you. I've just been made to feel like a structural and chemical problem within my brain is my fault for so goddamn long that I tend to be touchy about it.



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I wonder if they're looking at this kind of depression from the wrong angle. I wonder if it's possible that sleep problems cause depression instead of depression causing sleep problems. For instance, with people who don't sleep I know (cause my mom had this issue) that helping them sleep can do wonders for their depression and now you're saying that for those who sleep too much that depriving them of sleep helps.

Things that make you go hm.
I couldn't tell you about unipolar depression, but I do know that sleep disorders and bipolar are so closely linked that scientific opinion is split over which comes first, the chicken or the egg.

Bipolar and schizophrenia are weird creatures. In fact, bipolar's been shown to genetically co-segregate with pernicious anemia, an autoimmune disorder that destroys the part of your stomach that allows you to absorb vitamin B12 (and which will eventually kill you without B12 injections).

My grandmother had pernicious anemia (and was delusional), and everybody on that side of the family is as nutty as a goddamn fruitcake. More things that make you go hmm. There are a ton of other things, too, but that was just the first one that came to mind.

I really believe that there are just so many things that go into the makeup of a mental illness that it's pointless to try to pinpoint The Cause with the technology we have now. Concentrate on relieving symptoms and improving quality of life!
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:16 AM   #132
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I had to look twice and see if it was actually me that posted this. And DAMN that anxiety and the havoc it causes with my sleep.

I agree with you regarding exercising. My job can be very intense and stressful, which can send my anxiety out of control. Exercising before work definitely helps with that. I am sure my co-workers are happy that I do.
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The degree to which it does is apparently an incredible thing. In some studies it's outperforming or performing equal to various meds. I know that since we've been poking around the gym there's an improvement in life together in a major way.

Problem is, that depression makes it so that someone isn't able to get out of bed let alone onto a treadmill. But the upside of somehow somehow doing it anyway, are vastly understated, I think.
I know. But if you can just GET there. Just GET your ass to the door, the battle is won. There's a book called Don't prepare, just show up, about Woody Allen's adage that 90 percent of life is showing up. Good things happen if you can just drag your ass there while telling your brain to shut the fuck up with the con job.

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The most ironic thing the Nurse Practitioner said to me at the end of our appointment last night -

"I'm prescribing X, because you are exhibiting all the signs of severe depression and severe anxiety... But I have to say you are the most self-aware, healthiest, severely depressed person I've met."

If she only knew the decades of struggle it's taken to get here...
You are so getting that superlative at the BDSM board senior class awards night.

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Nature is my absolute biggest stress reliever.

I am just coming to grips with, for lack of a better term, the bubble that I have been living in for the past 6 years. I went through some pretty heavy stuff, in a very short period of time, and I am just now discovering that during these years, I haven't been myself at all.
I was strong, like I was supposed to be.
I was stoic, like I was supposed to be.
I took care of everyone, like I was supposed to do...

but I wasn't taking care of myself (there's that word again...)

The story goes on, but cutting to the chase, being out in nature saves me.

*hugs you back and lights a cozy campfire*
Me too. I become brown and dead around the edges, like a dying leaf. I need the woods. I think it's evolutionary. We crave where our species learned how to be human. And plastic and Muzak don't resonate with my DNA in a way that soothes me.

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Originally Posted by graceanne View Post
I wonder if they're looking at this kind of depression from the wrong angle. I wonder if it's possible that sleep problems cause depression instead of depression causing sleep problems. For instance, with people who don't sleep I know (cause my mom had this issue) that helping them sleep can do wonders for their depression and now you're saying that for those who sleep too much that depriving them of sleep helps.

Things that make you go hm.
If I don't sleep, my anxiety and depression spikes. It's as predictable as kicking back with apple tarts on Ungulate Day. Right now, for instance. I'm up late. Tomorrow I will post something maudlin on the YouTube mood thread. Watch and revel in science!

Thanks for this thread. It's crazy good. And I would welcome the chance to role play any of these scenarios in a safe environment.

Kidding. I'm kidding.
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:33 AM   #133
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If I don't sleep, my anxiety and depression spikes. It's as predictable as kicking back with apple tarts on Ungulate Day. Right now, for instance. I'm up late. Tomorrow I will post something maudlin on the YouTube mood thread. Watch and revel in science!
If I don't sleep I get stupid and angry, and the second is usually because of the first. When K was in Iraq I wasn't sleeping for shit, and at one point I locked myself out of my house FIVE TIMES in one day. And then I threw a monster temper tantrum where I was literally stomping my feet, crying, and yelling obscenities.

Until my neighbor caught me at it. I was so embarrassed I started taking something to help me sleep.
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Old 06-21-2012, 04:03 AM   #134
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that was...needed. thank you and back atcha. *hugs*
Hugs for you forever babe.
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Old 06-21-2012, 04:06 AM   #135
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That sleep deprivation thing is VERY interesting. I have known for decades that after one (or even better, two) nights of no sleep, my depression lifts massively. Third consecutive night with no sleep and the exhaustion knocks me back down again.
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:05 PM   #136
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I owe you all an apology. I did not have the right to speak as i did. I am sorry.
Mmmhmm, and while you're at it you can suck my hubby's dick, pissant. Do it inccorectly and you will be schooled in the fine art of pain. This female is armed and dangerous, fucktard. However, I do forgive you for being a villiage idiot. Be smart and stay away from me until your parents teach you proper etiquette.

All hear this: sdineen is innocent of e-rape. He, though, cannot help his current status as village idiot. Let the public record serve as evidence to his mental condition. As court jester and public defender, I move to suspend judgement until his mother and father teach him proper etiquette.

How many times have I already threatend an out loud rampage of epoch proportion? Right now I'm loving all of you, but I'm not fucking dead yet, fuckers! Think I'm bad when I lack sleep? Pah, child's play. *scratches head* Wait a minute, did I threaten a rampage? Oh wells, IT the white boobed menace ANTICHRIST Generation X spawn is ... somewhat sated. Mahahaha. I Am the eldest on both sides of my family, so don't fuck with me. I love to hurt things, you bunch of sillies! Anyone who would attempt to prey on my innocence will meet their doom vigilante style. Step on my sense of justice one too many times and I will dance upon the ashes of mine enemy, and not even the Gatekeeper will keep you safe if I feel you're guilty. And as an aside, I honestly cannot express in words the amount of love I have for everyone here, even if I don't yet like some of you. And truth be told, some people hate me for the fact that I have no hang-ups about who I am. At least they hate me for that rather than the color of my skin, country where I reside, economic status... 1% I AM coming for you, and I do it in my real life, too. Tell me that one woman's force cannot move society, pfft. I love you, Stella. Keep fighting! I respect you for that. *hugs*

*smiles triumphantly*

*skips off happily to hug her Furry momma*

Mommy, whenever anyone hears my giggle come out as mah hah hah ha ha or any variation of evil laughter my meanass is rising, but I promise that I will use incredible restraint before I let it out on society ... maybe. I will listen to your advice, and try to behave appropriately. *chuckles*

I'm trying to determine my own family and I see so many of them. I hope you do not mind being... smelled? I think from now on I will seek permission before I... sniff people.

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Old 06-21-2012, 12:22 PM   #137
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Sorry for the double post, but I have sacraficed my head to help me become enlightened. I can only hope that folks here will understand.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:01 PM   #138
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I never said it was, nor did I tell people not to take their meds. Most of the people going into therapy don't have bipolar syndrome or things on that level, they have issues like relatively standard depression, phobias, ptsd and the like and those can be treated by talk therapy. What I wrote about has been discussed widly in professional journals and every study has shown for standard treatable issues that talk therapy may be more effective in actually helping people move beyond their issues....people are put on Prozac or Welbutrin because insurance companies think it is more cost effective and those don't help people with the underlying issues, and that is the point. Serious brain chemistry issues, something like bipolar or schizophrenia, are not going to be cured with talk therapy or frankly with the meds, the medicines used for those have to be taken because without them the person reverts back. I understand your sensitivity to the issue and I can understand it, but please read what I wrote before jumping to conclusions, I didn't tell people they should drop medication and see a therapist, I simply said that for things people routinely go to therapists for that insurance companies are heavy with medications because they think it is cheaper.....and this has been written about ad infinitum. Not al people respond to therapists either, mental health issues are complex and it is always a case by case basis, and it would be idiotic to say 'meds don't work for anything' as it would be to tell a person with severe bipolar symptoms that the answer is to take a high colonic and go on a long walk (and yes, folks, that was at one time a common prescription for certain kinds of 'hysteria' and the like, brits especially seemed obsessed with colon cleansing .
Meh heh-heh-heh, heh-heh-heh HEH!

They all too soon forget that some of us are the spawn of original dissidents, but oh hell's to the no will I ever join the current tea baggers. Ima call 'em on their bullshit, everytime. And I will, in fact sniff it out of them just like a bloodhound would. We already know the lengths I am willing to go to in order to make my killing points. Silence, I kill you! style.

And you love my color and redneck momma approach without the documentation required to prove an inherent fact.

Boys are silly, and they have cooties. My hubs has hair, but ... the infestation is not as prolific.

Meh heh-heh-heh, heh-heh-heh HEH!

Ladies, there is no cause to fear me stealing your man from you. I would never accept a dude who would leave you for me. Committed relationships are serious business to me, and I have practiced it in my own life. I have been tested by the real life and internet fire, believe me as I make this promise. There is plenty of public record to investigate the quality of my character.
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:34 PM   #139
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My girl's issues are exhausting me at the moment. The way I see it, if she is having a health crisis, such as being in the hospital, then yes, I am supposed to be there for her.

Once she recovers however, it's not my job to entertain her while she ignores what she needs to be doing for her life to get back on track. I'd be happy to help her get her life back on track but no, she just wants to suck up my time with games and TV shows.

Ugh.

So tired.

And btw, I have a life too. I'd like some space to live it.

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Old 06-21-2012, 10:38 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by FurryFury View Post
My girl's issues are exhausting me at the moment. The way I see it, if she is having a health crisis, such as being in the hospital, then yes, I am supposed to be there for her.

Once she recovers however, it's not my job to entertain her while she ignores what she needs to be doing for her life to get back on track. I'd be happy to help her get her life back on track but no, she just wants to suck up my time with games and TV shows.

Ugh.

So tired.

And btw, I have a life too. I'd like some space to live it.

*Hugs, hugs, hugs*

Take care of yourself.
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:49 PM   #141
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Rarely does a thread emerge from the womb, and, jumping up, slick-skinned, begin to crackle and cartwheel.

Let's name her "Mental Illness."

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Old 06-22-2012, 12:35 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by FurryFury View Post
My girl's issues are exhausting me at the moment. The way I see it, if she is having a health crisis, such as being in the hospital, then yes, I am supposed to be there for her.

Once she recovers however, it's not my job to entertain her while she ignores what she needs to be doing for her life to get back on track. I'd be happy to help her get her life back on track but no, she just wants to suck up my time with games and TV shows.

Ugh.

So tired.

And btw, I have a life too. I'd like some space to live it.

Or, as I told my sister, I will go to Hell with you, but I will not go for you.
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Today, we will live in the moment. Unless that moment is unpleasant, and then we will eat a cookie.
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:42 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by FurryFury View Post
My girl's issues are exhausting me at the moment. The way I see it, if she is having a health crisis, such as being in the hospital, then yes, I am supposed to be there for her.

Once she recovers however, it's not my job to entertain her while she ignores what she needs to be doing for her life to get back on track. I'd be happy to help her get her life back on track but no, she just wants to suck up my time with games and TV shows.

Ugh.

So tired.

And btw, I have a life too. I'd like some space to live it.

Huge blue-grey orbs peer up at her Furry mother and a few razor tears sting down her cheeks.

"Mmmk, mommy."
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:48 AM   #144
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Rarely does a thread emerge from the womb, and, jumping up, slick-skinned, begin to crackle and cartwheel.

Let's name her "Mental Illness."

*ears perk* Daddy!

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Or, as I told my sister, I will go to Hell with you, but I will not go for you.
*grins* You would do that for me?

I love you.
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Old 06-22-2012, 08:33 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by FurryFury View Post
My girl's issues are exhausting me at the moment. The way I see it, if she is having a health crisis, such as being in the hospital, then yes, I am supposed to be there for her.

Once she recovers however, it's not my job to entertain her while she ignores what she needs to be doing for her life to get back on track. I'd be happy to help her get her life back on track but no, she just wants to suck up my time with games and TV shows.

Ugh.

So tired.

And btw, I have a life too. I'd like some space to live it.

This is a piece of my life, too. If you figure out how to disengage, let me know.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:39 AM   #146
rida
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Thank you for this thread.
(And thank you BiBunny for sharing your struggles and your rant!)

Hubby is bipolar type II, ultra-rapid cycling, mixed states with an add on of seasonal depression.

And I'm starting to notice eerily similarities in the way my younger one react to life events ...

HUGS to all the sufferers!

And HUGS to all the family members that are sticking with them!

Please do not forget that we suffer too
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:52 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by rida View Post
Thank you for this thread.
(And thank you BiBunny for sharing your struggles and your rant!)

Hubby is bipolar type II, ultra-rapid cycling, mixed states with an add on of seasonal depression.

And I'm starting to notice eerily similarities in the way my younger one react to life events ...

HUGS to all the sufferers!

And HUGS to all the family members that are sticking with them!

Please do not forget that we suffer too
*hugs group and stokes the embers which gypsy started earlier*

My belief in God gave me the ultimate excuse for my behavior: the devil made me do it, and no one in my family corrected me. They should have. It's why I'm all over my kids about accepting personal accountability, and not blaming others for stupid choices.

Daddy's little girl nightmare!

We still have faith in my house, but if it were not for my teen wanderlust I may not have made it through.

Disorganized religion *is* a dangerous menace to society when one morality is afflicted upon the general population.

Therefore, there must be a seperation between church and state. No one person or religion owns the right to withold the rights of another simply because they find certain things ... icky.

Thoughts?
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Old 06-23-2012, 12:22 AM   #148
graceanne
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Originally Posted by Licia View Post

Therefore, there must be a seperation between church and state. No one person or religion owns the right to withold the rights of another simply because they find certain things ... icky.

Thoughts?
I think that that is an entirely different thread. You should start it.
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Old 06-23-2012, 12:30 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by graceanne View Post
I think that that is an entirely different thread. You should start it.
Oh it is DEFINITELY time for the traditional knockdown, drag out religion thread! Kind of like a summer festival ritual with bile snowcones and a band!

JMohegan, save the date!
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:58 AM   #150
graceanne
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Originally Posted by DeepGreenEyes View Post
Oh it is DEFINITELY time for the traditional knockdown, drag out religion thread! Kind of like a summer festival ritual with bile snowcones and a band!

JMohegan, save the date!
I don't know if I have the patience or strength. You might have to have the traditional fight with someone else this year.

Unless, of course, I'm promised cookies and/or chocolate covered cherries.
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