Mental Illness

[FurryFury]

So tired.

I'm about at the point of just erasing any messages my mom leaves on my machine without listening to them. She wants to resent me so much she makes things up.

I just want a calm and warm family christmas. She wants to eat my soul and live in my body using me like a puppet. Not going to happen.

In other news, my son has quit college. Not altogether a bad thing. He was miserable and afraid he might hurt himself if he continued. So his path is just not an academic one. My husband and I had that same issue and we are happy with our lives today.

My girl may be better finally. She seems more like herself than anytime since last Spring. However, that means she is more verbally combative. Also she continues to have trouble actually taking her meds. I don't understand how that can happen. She now has a days of the week pill thingie with both morning and evening slots.

Asked her when she started acting out irrationally today if she'd taken her meds this morning. She said yes. After she continued to act up and out, I went to look. No. She hadn't. She also missed Sunday. Her drugs "build" up so that's a problem. Bigger problem is, when I can't check on her anymore how is she going to take her meds and have a decent life?

Not letting it get me down but I do wonder.

[BiBunny]

*Hugs Fury* Sorry it's a little late; I missed it when you first posted.


My own mini-rant:

Don't you just love how, now that some crazy motherfucker has shot up a school, everybody in the world has declared themselves an expert on mental illness or the non-existence thereof?

Seriously, if you've never experienced mental illness personally, please shut the fuck up about it. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[FurryFury]

Thanks! *HUGS*

Oh yes. I feel you on that one.

From the articles you'd think that if a school psychiatrist had ever seen a kid or if they had autism, they would be killers some day.

Also the way the asses have polarized this shit into anti guy / pro gun stuff really pisses me off. It seems everything in the "news" is now polarized that way.

FF

Originally Posted by BiBunny

*Hugs Fury* Sorry it's a little late; I missed it when you first posted.


My own mini-rant:

Don't you just love how, now that some crazy motherfucker has shot up a school, everybody in the world has declared themselves an expert on mental illness or the non-existence thereof?

Seriously, if you've never experienced mental illness personally, please shut the fuck up about it. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[FurryFury]

My girl's brain is def back. She is once again arguing about anything and everything, endlessly, but at least she is herself again! I know her now!

[Sub_M]

You can't attribute the existence of a whole subculture to mental illness (though I guess that won't stop some people trying). However, there is possibly a higher proportion of people with mental illnesses in the bdsm culture or other minority groups; goths, punks etc. People still fall for the 'correlation implies causation' fallacy. Perhaps intelligent people are more likely to be in a minority group, but are also more likely to have mental problems. People who like control or submission could have attributes of their personalities which make it more likely for them to suffer from anxiety or something similar. It's just not that easy to say.

I think my issues did lead me to have an interest in the lifestyle. I was diagnosed with major depression, general anxiety, social phobia and avoidance personality disorder in 2009, about one year after graduating highscool. I'd had it all since I hit puberty. I saw a psychiatrist who got me out of my suicidal state and really patched me up, and I learned a lot about what it is to be... more normal by taking an SSRI.

Well, a few years down the track and I'm still not perfect, but I decided to see a psychiatrist again and actually go through with it all (the first time I did about three months and stopped going, and taking the drugs). Now I have learned a lot more about myself. Most of the real issues - or should I say, behaviors, I've actually had since childhood.

What I find is that I want to control the outcomes of situations, people's opinions... you name it. It makes me quite uncomfortable when I can't, or when my plans get ruined. I love to serve people and I get genuine pleasure from it, because... I'm not sure. Somehow it's relaxing. If I'm obeying someone's orders I'm doing what they want and they're more likely to like me as a person. Crumbly logic I know, I'm just trying to fit reason to what's really an impulse.

Before the bdsm craze hit popular notice I sort of... fell in to it. I'd been nicknaming my partners Mr. or Master, going out of my way to make nice food and please them. Because that's what felt right. One relationship actually ended because of a misunderstanding over it; he thought I was hopelessly in love and was just putting to much into the relationship, but all I wanted to do was serve. I didn't have a clue what I'd done wrong at that point; I didn't know it was a little different. I'd been doing it all my life. I had been to a bdsm club once while living in Australia, but didn't really think anything of it. Since moving to Germany though I found one and went just out of curiosity, and after attending a few times I guess I realised that I fit in really quite well. It means I don't have to change, that how I am (aside a few things that I need to work on) isn't necessarily... wrong.

I'm still experimenting with the whole thing, I'm fairly new to it. I have to push boundaries and see what I like and what I don't. Anyway, what I wanted to say was... I got drawn in to bdsm because of mental illness. *waves*. My partner thinks it's kind of funny, that I'll freak out about having to talk to people but I'm totally happy to walk around tits out in a freaky bdsm club. Haha. Somehow I find the environment to be totally relaxing.

[FurryFury]

I've heard quite a few people say that BDSM or Kink helps their mental illness.

[Katiesub]

Originally Posted by FurryFury

I've heard quite a few people say that BDSM or Kink helps their mental illness.

There is a wonderful calming, settling effect (for me) of pain. I've never been a cutter -- maybe this is my way of finding that vent for the black dog in me.

When I'm depressed, I don't FEEL ... Feeling pain is feeling, and it's a road back to emotions that are not there in depression.

[BiBunny]

Originally Posted by FurryFury

I've heard quite a few people say that BDSM or Kink helps their mental illness.

It was the other way around for me.

[KoPilot]

Originally Posted by FurryFury

I've heard quite a few people say that BDSM or Kink helps their mental illness.

It does.

[Keroin]

A (not so) brief rant here, that perhaps I might gain some insight.

Last night was my last meeting as chair of an non-profit organization. I loved the work I did there but one committee member made it impossible for me to continue. He is bi-polar, has anger issues, and I suspect some other mental illnesses of varying degrees. And, unfortunately, he was one of the founders of the organization and isn't going anywhere soon.

Knowing the stigma that plagues so many with mental illnesses and the lack of compassion and patience shown by the general public, I did my best to work around his problems (which are legion, let me tell you). I won't bore you with the details but suffice it to say he made my life progressively more difficult until, in a very rare fit of anger, I quit. He begged me to come back. I agreed to one final face-to-face talk, and he was convincing enough with his vow to behave that I agreed to finish out the season.

He kept his promise for less than two weeks.

I live in a small town, the arts community is even smaller, and I know I will run into this person frequently. I don't know how I'm going to behave toward him. Logically, I know he didn't "mean" to cause me any grief, but emotionally I am absolutely SEETHING with anger. I don't want to be petty or spiteful and I know in a year or so this will all have passed and I won't even care. But right now I'm furious, and hurt.

So how do I remain compassionate in the face of repeated mistreatment? (Seriously, this person has given me an ulcer and has been the cause of many sleepless nights).

And I am not the only bridge he's burned - the town is full of stories.

I guess I'm not here looking for solutions, just curious about how it feels from the other side. If you have a mental illness that has led you to hurt others, what are your thoughts on this?

[Katiesub]

I'm not bipolar, but in some of my episodes of depression I did some very stupid and hurting things to people.

I can't excuse them, and I can't ask someone else to forgive them, either, although some people have.

We live; I live; and this man must also live with the consequences of his actions.

That being said, anger towards him, resentment, and all the rest will eat you up if you allow it. Again, I speak from experience. That awful statement "Revenge is a dish best served cold" completely misses the point. Revenge is a dish that, when served, is partaken of to the hurt of both the giver and the recipient. In equal portions.

Talk to someone you trust, and who is capable of understanding and maybe helping you through this, about your anger.

[FurryFury]

I understand where you are coming from. *hugs* I can't speak to the other side. Hopefully someone will come along soon who can.

It's one thing to forgive someone. It's another thing to know that person is going to do the abusive, toxic shit again and again. That is where I am with my mom right now. I just don't want to talk to her. When I do she attacks.

Also I have someone who contacts me about his plans to do things in my profession. I've seen his illogical and ill advised rants on facebook. I know he is bi polar. I don't want to be a part of anything he plans. When he plans things they turn sleazy and don't uphold my profession the way I am comfortable.

Originally Posted by Keroin

A (not so) brief rant here, that perhaps I might gain some insight . . .

[Katiesub]

Originally Posted by FurryFury

I understand where you are coming from. *hugs* I can't speak to the other side. Hopefully someone will come along soon who can.

It's one thing to forgive someone. It's another thing to know that person is going to do the abusive, toxic shit again and again. That is where I am with my mom right now. I just don't want to talk to her. When I do she attacks.

Also I have someone who contacts me about his plans to do things in my profession. I've seen his illogical and ill advised rants on facebook. I know he is bi polar. I don't want to be a part of anything he plans. When he plans things they turn sleazy and don't uphold my profession the way I am comfortable.

The sad fact of untreated mental illness among us is that all of us also need to protect ourselves and those we are responsible for from those who act irrationally and hurtfully to the greatest extent practical.

[Keroin]

Originally Posted by Katiesub

That being said, anger towards him, resentment, and all the rest will eat you up if you allow it. Again, I speak from experience. That awful statement "Revenge is a dish best served cold" completely misses the point. Revenge is a dish that, when served, is partaken of to the hurt of both the giver and the recipient. In equal portions.

Talk to someone you trust, and who is capable of understanding and maybe helping you through this, about your anger.

Thanks Katiesub. I do know it will pass, (hooray for the wisdom of experience), I suppose I am just wrestling with the philosophy of it, if that makes sense? And thankfully I do have some good people to talk to, who understand it. I think you're right, that really is key.

Originally Posted by FurryFury

I understand where you are coming from. *hugs* I can't speak to the other side. Hopefully someone will come along soon who can.

It's one thing to forgive someone. It's another thing to know that person is going to do the abusive, toxic shit again and again. That is where I am with my mom right now. I just don't want to talk to her. When I do she attacks.

Also I have someone who contacts me about his plans to do things in my profession. I've seen his illogical and ill advised rants on facebook. I know he is bi polar. I don't want to be a part of anything he plans. When he plans things they turn sleazy and don't uphold my profession the way I am comfortable.

Thanks FF. So sorry about your ongoing struggles with your mom. Much easier to quit a committee than to deal with an immediate family member.

Yes, there is that separation - forgiving but also understand the behaviour is toxic and won't change. From a distance, I feel genuine pity for this man. Up close? I want to scratch his eyeballs out, lol.

Originally Posted by Katiesub

The sad fact of untreated mental illness among us is that all of us also need to protect ourselves and those we are responsible for from those who act irrationally and hurtfully to the greatest extent practical.

Oddly, the biggest source of my anger is not even at all the hurtful things he has done, but at the fact that he has pushed me to act in a way that runs contrary to my nature, purely out of self defense.

When I came home from the meeting last night, I felt more wiped out than if I had just put in six hours at the gym. I hadn't realized how much stress had built up, just how hard I was working at appearing "normal" in order to get the job finished. I slept in today as if I were hungover.

[CutieMouse]

I am a HUGE believer in compassionate boundaries.

IMO, there is no compassion in letting a mentally ill person continue to blunder through life like a bull in a china shop, wrecking (stressing out) the people around them.

They will live forever, feeding off the stress and burdens they've beaten into every soul they meet. The victims will try and try to "work around" things out of respect for the ill person's "differences"... Only to suffer the emotional and physical strain better deserved by the madman.

"I know you have issues (anger/etc); I respect the challenges that must create in your life. I will no longer suffer, just because you expect me to."

And then point out specifics (the good behaviors only lasted two weeks, etc), and you will be devoting your energy elsewhere until XYZ changes have remained constant for ____ amount of time.

Then stick to it.

The arts community may be small, but that doesn't mean he's on every board. Explain your boundaries to every new project, and see if you can't get more people on your side. If the community sets a boundary, it will be harder to ignore it.

[Keroin]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, CM.

I actually did sit him down and give him the "tough love" talk....three times. Each time, he seemed genuinely contrite and eager to change. After the second talk, he made an appointment with a therapist and seemed to be making an improvement. But then he just went right back to his old ways. And during the "fit of anger" I blurted out more than I should have about other members of the community and their feelings toward his behaviour (including one committee member who quit because he frightened her). I honestly thought that would make some dent, but it didn't.

The third talk was when I drew the line (three strikes you're out).

I do agree that the arts community needs to band together on this, because he does have a negative impact on people, and thus our projects. I think we need to get over our small town way of just trying to "get along". Boundaries do need to be set because I can see this pattern continuing indefinitely. Now I suppose I just need to consider how to spread the word in a way that can't be construed as mean spirited gossip.

But, I think I'll wait a few months, and let myself cool down and heal, first!

Originally Posted by CutieMouse

I am a HUGE believer in compassionate boundaries.

IMO, there is no compassion in letting a mentally ill person continue to blunder through life like a bull in a china shop, wrecking (stressing out) the people around them.

They will live forever, feeding off the stress and burdens they've beaten into every soul they meet. The victims will try and try to "work around" things out of respect for the ill person's "differences"... Only to suffer the emotional and physical strain better deserved by the madman.

"I know you have issues (anger/etc); I respect the challenges that must create in your life. I will no longer suffer, just because you expect me to."

And then point out specifics (the good behaviors only lasted two weeks, etc), and you will be devoting your energy elsewhere until XYZ changes have remained constant for ____ amount of time.

Then stick to it.

The arts community may be small, but that doesn't mean he's on every board. Explain your boundaries to every new project, and see if you can't get more people on your side. If the community sets a boundary, it will be harder to ignore it.

[BiBunny]

Originally Posted by Keroin

A (not so) brief rant here, that perhaps I might gain some insight.

Last night was my last meeting as chair of an non-profit organization. I loved the work I did there but one committee member made it impossible for me to continue. He is bi-polar, has anger issues, and I suspect some other mental illnesses of varying degrees. And, unfortunately, he was one of the founders of the organization and isn't going anywhere soon.

Knowing the stigma that plagues so many with mental illnesses and the lack of compassion and patience shown by the general public, I did my best to work around his problems (which are legion, let me tell you). I won't bore you with the details but suffice it to say he made my life progressively more difficult until, in a very rare fit of anger, I quit. He begged me to come back. I agreed to one final face-to-face talk, and he was convincing enough with his vow to behave that I agreed to finish out the season.

He kept his promise for less than two weeks.

I live in a small town, the arts community is even smaller, and I know I will run into this person frequently. I don't know how I'm going to behave toward him. Logically, I know he didn't "mean" to cause me any grief, but emotionally I am absolutely SEETHING with anger. I don't want to be petty or spiteful and I know in a year or so this will all have passed and I won't even care. But right now I'm furious, and hurt.

So how do I remain compassionate in the face of repeated mistreatment? (Seriously, this person has given me an ulcer and has been the cause of many sleepless nights).

And I am not the only bridge he's burned - the town is full of stories.

I guess I'm not here looking for solutions, just curious about how it feels from the other side. If you have a mental illness that has led you to hurt others, what are your thoughts on this?

Hi, K. I'm bipolar (duh), and rage has always been one of the major things I have to contend with. I dunno if I can help, but I'll try.

I've long ranted against people who abandon the crazy in their time of need, but here's the thing. If you were a family member or his girlfriend or his best friend or someone who is very close to him and should be concerned about his well-being, then it would be insensitive of you to walk away. But you aren't. You owe this man nothing other than the kind of common courtesy you'd give to anyone, crazy or no. Just because the people who should be helping are not helping doesn't mean it should fall on you to accommodate his shit. So don't feel guilty.

As far as rage goes in the context of bipolar, it's addictive. That's the only way I know how to put it. It's such a destructive thing, both to yourself and to the people around you, but feels so good while you're doing it. I don't even know how to explain the feeling, really.

Then, you look back later and realize how scary it was. The rage and the paranoia were what eventually led me to get treatment. I was afraid of myself, of this thing in my head.

I understand why they used to think crazy people were possessed by demons. I feel that way sometimes myself. Not literally, of course, but it's like something that's not me takes control of my brain. It shoves me out of the driver's seat, ties me up in the floorboard, and forces me to watch while it drives my body and does whatever kinds of terrible things it wants to do, and I am completely powerless to stop it.

Nowadays, it's not so bad. I drive my brain most of the time, but it was pretty bad there for a long time. I've got a lot of regrets about a lot of the things I did then. It wasn't really "me" doing them, but I'm still the one who's responsible for not being able to fight the demon off. So yeah...lots and lots of regrets.

On the other hand, there are a lot of people who use their "illnesses" (whether legitimate or not) as excuses to treat other people like shit. Lack of insight into one's illness ("There's nothing wrong with me!") is a hallmark of being mentally ill. But when somebody's all like "Well, I just can't help myself because I'm [insert mental illness here]," then there's a good chance that they're using it as a crutch, especially if they're not in therapy/on meds/otherwise doing something to fix their problem.

Ok, I was going to make some point or other, but my daddy called while I was in the middle of typing this and talked for an hour, so now I've lost my train of thought.

[Keroin]

Originally Posted by BiBunny

Hi, K. I'm bipolar (duh), and rage has always been one of the major things I have to contend with. I dunno if I can help, but I'll try.

I was hoping you would chime in, BB. Thanks!

I've long ranted against people who abandon the crazy in their time of need, but here's the thing. If you were a family member or his girlfriend or his best friend or someone who is very close to him and should be concerned about his well-being, then it would be insensitive of you to walk away. But you aren't. You owe this man nothing other than the kind of common courtesy you'd give to anyone, crazy or no. Just because the people who should be helping are not helping doesn't mean it should fall on you to accommodate his shit. So don't feel guilty.

Yeah, I'd be lying if I said I don't feel a small degree of guilt. Not big enough to keep banging my head against that wall but...

As far as rage goes in the context of bipolar, it's addictive. That's the only way I know how to put it. It's such a destructive thing, both to yourself and to the people around you, but feels so good while you're doing it. I don't even know how to explain the feeling, really.

Then, you look back later and realize how scary it was. The rage and the paranoia were what eventually led me to get treatment. I was afraid of myself, of this thing in my head.

I understand why they used to think crazy people were possessed by demons. I feel that way sometimes myself. Not literally, of course, but it's like something that's not me takes control of my brain. It shoves me out of the driver's seat, ties me up in the floorboard, and forces me to watch while it drives my body and does whatever kinds of terrible things it wants to do, and I am completely powerless to stop it.

This is the part I'm really interested in. How self-aware were you back then, would you say?

See, this fellow will RAGE, then be contrite and apologetic, then...just pick up like nothing happened and the cycle repeats. So there are moments when I think he gets it, and others where I think he must be the most clueless man on the planet, lol.

And it was hit and miss. I never knew what would set him off. In one meeting, he got so belligerent over a side project that he literally would not let me speak. (And I'm the chair!) In frustration and an attempt to calm the fire, I handed the whole thing over to him to run. He sat on it for two months, did absolutely nothing, then dumped the whole thing back in my lap at the very last minute. So now I get to look like the incompetent idiot. Yay.

When he went into RAGE I just never knew how to handle him.

Nowadays, it's not so bad. I drive my brain most of the time, but it was pretty bad there for a long time. I've got a lot of regrets about a lot of the things I did then. It wasn't really "me" doing them, but I'm still the one who's responsible for not being able to fight the demon off. So yeah...lots and lots of regrets.

I am sorry to hear that but I am glad you're getting yourself together. I keep reading your posts and being amazed at how fricken amazingly sharp you seem these days. You were always intelligent but now you also seem insightful and level headed. I think you would make an excellent advocate for others who perhaps need some help.

As for this person, I have serious doubts he'll get it together. It will take something huge, I think, to push him into seriously seeking help. I'm shocked he's held his life together as well as he has.

Ok, I was going to make some point or other, but my daddy called while I was in the middle of typing this and talked for an hour, so now I've lost my train of thought.

LOL. I loved what you had to say. Thanks.

[FurryFury]

Agreed and that goes for poorly treated mental illness too.

Originally Posted by Katiesub

The sad fact of untreated mental illness among us is that all of us also need to protect ourselves and those we are responsible for from those who act irrationally and hurtfully to the greatest extent practical.

[FurryFury]

I feel that if I had been pushy and tried to have my mom declared mentally incompetent, she might well be better off. I know she would fight me and hate me though. I'm not into fights. I'm into people being adults and making their own choices whether right or wrong.

If I were able to get her in a place that would make sure she took her meds and be there for her when she is in "crisis" I'd feel a lot better. I know however, that she would deliberately act up with the goal of getting kicked out like one of my friend's mother is doing.

Also she would inevitably get her feelings hurt and want to leave. Too bad for her I'm not the sort that wants to take charge. Actually I'm damn tired of her never being the adult - ever.

As it is, she wants help or thinks she does, but blocks any help she could get from me or anyone else.

One day, I suspect dementia will make it impossible to fight being taken care of. Maybe then, I'll actually be able to help her.

[welkin]

I've just begun reading this thread, thank you all for the insightful comments and resources... I've a question that I want to get some perspective from those with BP here...

The guy I've just started dating is probably bipolar. And I am feeling a little lost: He was getting out of his depression when I met him, still taking meds, but otherwise seems perfectly normal to me, I'd never have guessed he was depressed or bipolar if he didn't tell me. But the current normalcy worries me... it's as if I'm kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, waiting for him to go into an episode of mania or depression (I don't wish that on him, of course) so I can see how bad it is, and then I can assess whether I can deal with it...

I like him, of course, but I also don't want to overestimate myself and make promises I cannot keep. I've never met anyone else who's bipolar (or at least that I knew of), so I don't know what to expect. Shall I agree to commit, while knowing that there's a chance I'll break the commitment if his BP starts and I find it too much for me? Or shall I wait and see...? Is there an answer that'll be good for both of us?

[FurryFury]

Welcome Welkin.

I hope someone comes along soon to discuss this with you. As for me, I don't blame you for wanting a way to gauge how bad it gets so that you can figure out if you can take it or not before committing fully.

[IrisAlthea]

Originally Posted by welkin

I've just begun reading this thread, thank you all for the insightful comments and resources... I've a question that I want to get some perspective from those with BP here...

The guy I've just started dating is probably bipolar. And I am feeling a little lost: He was getting out of his depression when I met him, still taking meds, but otherwise seems perfectly normal to me, I'd never have guessed he was depressed or bipolar if he didn't tell me. But the current normalcy worries me... it's as if I'm kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, waiting for him to go into an episode of mania or depression (I don't wish that on him, of course) so I can see how bad it is, and then I can assess whether I can deal with it...

I like him, of course, but I also don't want to overestimate myself and make promises I cannot keep. I've never met anyone else who's bipolar (or at least that I knew of), so I don't know what to expect. Shall I agree to commit, while knowing that there's a chance I'll break the commitment if his BP starts and I find it too much for me? Or shall I wait and see...? Is there an answer that'll be good for both of us?

I'm not bipolar nor do I know very much about it, but I do know about waiting for the other shoe to drop.
I get wanting to know what you're up against and how well you can handle it, before committing. The thing is that you still won't known if it gets worse later or if you'll have a harder time handling it during times when you experience other kinds of difficulties in life.
I don't mean to be depressing here, I just want to point out that there are never any guarantees. Bipolar or not, commitment takes time.

[CutieMouse]

Explain "probably bipolar"?

People who struggle with depression do have periods of non-depression, but that doesn't make them bipolar. If it were me, I'd want more information than "probably", including a discussion of coping skills/meds/etc, rather than a manic episode to see "how bad" it could get. Because from experience.... It can get really fucking bad in a heartbeat.

On the other hand, *properly managed*, bipolar has as much impact as allowed.

[Keroin]

@CM regarding your advice. I actually had a member of another arts organization ask me my opinion about working with "that man". I was tactful but honest and basically used your advice verbatim. It went very well.

Thanks!