Go Back   Literotica Discussion Board > Main Literotica Forums > GLBT Chatter

Reply
 
Thread Tools

Old 11-23-2013, 05:29 AM   #1
stickygirl
Smile..it confuses people
 
stickygirl's Avatar
 
stickygirl is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 10,878
Ask a Transgender a question

Confusing title huh? It means Male to Female Transgender

Lots of you know me already and I've been happy to answer friends' questions via PMs. Here I can give you honest answers to the questions burning in your mind about transgenders but be warned: this isn't a thread for fulfilling your fantasies, it's for filling in the blanks in your knowledge about us. Trans* people just want to get on with our lives and be accepted in society, so dispelling a few myths might help that.

I won't be answering questions about my personal life, just about life in general from my TG perspective and I hope it'll help other trans women along the way. I'll try not to be too 'political' because life should be fun

Also... if you don't have burning questions we could just chat, but you have to bring flowers or chocolate

ETA July 2014
Since the discussion here have been so interesting, I have copied a number to a separate Tumblr thread here : As I see it. If you do not wish your contribution to be included please let me know, but I hope very much you will. We need to get the message out
__________________
My stories My stories
A bit more stuff on Tumblr
Ask a MtF trans woman a question

Last edited by stickygirl : 07-23-2014 at 12:02 PM. Reason: title might have confused
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-23-2013, 07:40 AM   #2
Safe_Bet
No she's not back I'm Amy
 
Safe_Bet's Avatar
 
Safe_Bet is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 8,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickygirl View Post
Confusing title huh? It means Male to Female Transgender

Lots of you know me already and I've been happy to answer friends' questions via PMs. Here I can give you honest answers to the questions burning in your mind about transgenders but be warned: this isn't a thread for fulfilling your fantasies, it's for filling in the blanks in your knowledge about us. Trans* people just want to get on with our lives and be accepted in society, so dispelling a few myths might help that.

I won't be answering questions about my personal life, just about life in general from my TG perspective and I hope it'll help other trans women along the way. I'll try not to be too 'political' because life should be fun


Okay, I'll go first... ;-)



Do MtF's and FtM TGs ever hook up?

Just curious about this because, if the orientations fit, the understanding and empathy they could provide each other would seem to be a perfect match (not at all sure about the plumbing issues though).
__________________
.

Proud lesbian wife and mother!



Here's a link to my stories and poetry.

Here's my AH Profile


I Have a Degree in Liberal Arts; Do You Want Fries With That?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-23-2013, 08:46 AM   #3
stickygirl
Smile..it confuses people
 
stickygirl's Avatar
 
stickygirl is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 10,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Safe_Bet View Post
Okay, I'll go first... ;-)



Do MtF's and FtM TGs ever hook up?

Just curious about this because, if the orientations fit, the understanding and empathy they could provide each other would seem to be a perfect match (not at all sure about the plumbing issues though).
Thanks SB
Certainly we have a number of shared interests in society but I promised not to get political!

I know of some trans men / women couples and they seem as happy as pie but I really think it comes down to how their personalities mesh. But sure - they'd have things in common: their social circles, friends, backgrounds - those are important for any relationship.
Trans folk are adept at separating gender from sexuality: something that cis-gender people don't need to do and perhaps we are more likely to be attracted to someone because of who they are rather than their gender? But we're all different, just like the rest of the population and just as likely to be blind to who we find attractive until they're standing right in front us.
__________________
My stories My stories
A bit more stuff on Tumblr
Ask a MtF trans woman a question
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-23-2013, 09:32 AM   #4
Safe_Bet
No she's not back I'm Amy
 
Safe_Bet's Avatar
 
Safe_Bet is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 8,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickygirl View Post
Thanks SB
Certainly we have a number of shared interests in society but I promised not to get political!

I know of some trans men / women couples and they seem as happy as pie but I really think it comes down to how their personalities mesh. But sure - they'd have things in common: their social circles, friends, backgrounds - those are important for any relationship.
Trans folk are adept at separating gender from sexuality: something that cis-gender people don't need to do and perhaps we are more likely to be attracted to someone because of who they are rather than their gender? But we're all different, just like the rest of the population and just as likely to be blind to who we find attractive until they're standing right in front us.

Wh... wha... WHAT???? You mean you are NORMAL and just like EVERY FREAKIN BODY ELSE????

[/ false surprise ] LOL



Not real clear on what you mean by "separating gender from sexuality" though. or how that relates to the orientation issue really (other than the obvious).
__________________
.

Proud lesbian wife and mother!



Here's a link to my stories and poetry.

Here's my AH Profile


I Have a Degree in Liberal Arts; Do You Want Fries With That?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-23-2013, 11:39 AM   #5
stickygirl
Smile..it confuses people
 
stickygirl's Avatar
 
stickygirl is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 10,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Safe_Bet View Post
Wh... wha... WHAT???? You mean you are NORMAL and just like EVERY FREAKIN BODY ELSE????

[/ false surprise ] LOL
Ha! chuckling here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Safe_Bet View Post
Not real clear on what you mean by "separating gender from sexuality" though. or how that relates to the orientation issue really (other than the obvious).
Quick answer
I'm meaning sexuality as sexual orientation. The most common form of gender/sexuality is a man knows he's a man and is heterosexual ( that's just the numbers talking, nothing more ). Most men and women never question their gender in their whole life - why would they? However many will question their sexuality.

Longer ramble/incisive examination
A trans woman has either 'just known' her gender from a pre-school age or she's had to figure it out later on, say at puberty. If later, she may already be confused about which sex she's attracted to (because her sexuality doesn't fit the hetero norm), along with trying to figure which gender they are themselves, because "just knowing" ones gender isn't always black and white. Confused? Too frigging right!! ... and they're often teenagers!!

Soooo... one of the ways of making sense of this is to clearly identify those two components in oneself "This is my gender" and "This is the gender I am sexually attracted to".
This is a problem a trans woman can face, if she finds she is still attracted to women even after starting hormones, because it can lead to a lot of name-calling and suspicion "You are woman now, so how can you be a lesbian as well?!" This is actually the million dollar question for a lot of so-called liberal people: they can tolerate 'a man thinking she's a woman', but still being attracted to women - that's a step too far for them.

It's what is behind a lot of the problems over access to restrooms because the suspicion is that these "so-called women" are nothing more then predatory men gaining access to women's spaces by deceit. You have to put this mistaken assumption into a bigger context: does an individual really put themselves through all the trauma of coming out as trans*, being shunned by family and friends, being pilloried by strangers and being scrutinized by health care professionals for months, to take a leak in a womens restroom?? FFS. There are easier ways of getting covered in hairspray and discovering some women's hygiene is no better than mens!

But as you've said "we're just like other people" so why wouldn't we be gay or straight? because - Sexuality has NOTHING to do with gender.

So, yea - trans* folk give this issue a good deal of thought.
__________________
My stories My stories
A bit more stuff on Tumblr
Ask a MtF trans woman a question

Last edited by stickygirl : 11-23-2013 at 11:59 AM. Reason: because
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-23-2013, 02:54 PM   #6
Prince Albert
Quacked Up and Quazy
 
Prince Albert's Avatar
 
Prince Albert is online now
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Skating across Dante's 9th ring!!
Posts: 12,906
Ohh Stickgirl; you know some of us love, just as you are, beautiful, friendly, & witty!!!
__________________
"Heaven STILL doesn't want me & Hell is STILL afraid I'm going to take over".

Proud Daddy to babygirl: Wyshes!!
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-23-2013, 04:27 PM   #7
stickygirl
Smile..it confuses people
 
stickygirl's Avatar
 
stickygirl is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 10,878
Well thank you PA
but a long journey begins with a single step
(hopefully in the right direction)
__________________
My stories My stories
A bit more stuff on Tumblr
Ask a MtF trans woman a question
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-23-2013, 04:52 PM   #8
TJcurious
Really Really Experienced
 
TJcurious is online now
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: gulf coast, FL
Posts: 376
Hi Sweet, and Sticky..

I've been out of the loop, and away from here for a long time.....for various reasons.
Hope everything is well with you. I have much catching up to do!
Hugz!!
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-23-2013, 05:17 PM   #9
stickygirl
Smile..it confuses people
 
stickygirl's Avatar
 
stickygirl is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 10,878
Thanks TJ
Got any questions? You were always a curious one

hope you're back in control of things now?
__________________
My stories My stories
A bit more stuff on Tumblr
Ask a MtF trans woman a question
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-24-2013, 06:51 AM   #10
Prince Albert
Quacked Up and Quazy
 
Prince Albert's Avatar
 
Prince Albert is online now
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Skating across Dante's 9th ring!!
Posts: 12,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickygirl View Post
Well thank you PA
but a long journey begins with a single step
(hopefully in the right direction)
Just due me one favor??? Stay as sexy & sassy as you are!!
__________________
"Heaven STILL doesn't want me & Hell is STILL afraid I'm going to take over".

Proud Daddy to babygirl: Wyshes!!
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-25-2013, 01:23 PM   #11
stickygirl
Smile..it confuses people
 
stickygirl's Avatar
 
stickygirl is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 10,878
I've taken the original simplistic question out - it was unnecessarily provocative

I've seen the fantasy girl vids and the idea of 'I like dick but I'm not gay' is nothing new to me and tbh some of those vids are pretty hot. There is a big market for that and it interests me, because I'd love to know how well those girls are paid; if porn was their only route out of a difficult background or if they just love sex. I'm not that into sex for the sake of it, but I'm open-minded and if those girls are happy doing what they're doing then good on them. Any comments?
__________________
My stories My stories
A bit more stuff on Tumblr
Ask a MtF trans woman a question

Last edited by stickygirl : 11-26-2013 at 01:58 AM. Reason: removed distracting question
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-25-2013, 01:54 PM   #12
blade_rocknut
I is what I is.
 
blade_rocknut's Avatar
 
blade_rocknut is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Flor'da
Posts: 21,668
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickygirl View Post
Ha! chuckling here



Quick answer
I'm meaning sexuality as sexual orientation. The most common form of gender/sexuality is a man knows he's a man and is heterosexual ( that's just the numbers talking, nothing more ). Most men and women never question their gender in their whole life - why would they? However many will question their sexuality.

Longer ramble/incisive examination
A trans woman has either 'just known' her gender from a pre-school age or she's had to figure it out later on, say at puberty. If later, she may already be confused about which sex she's attracted to (because her sexuality doesn't fit the hetero norm), along with trying to figure which gender they are themselves, because "just knowing" ones gender isn't always black and white. Confused? Too frigging right!! ... and they're often teenagers!!

Soooo... one of the ways of making sense of this is to clearly identify those two components in oneself "This is my gender" and "This is the gender I am sexually attracted to".
This is a problem a trans woman can face, if she finds she is still attracted to women even after starting hormones, because it can lead to a lot of name-calling and suspicion "You are woman now, so how can you be a lesbian as well?!" This is actually the million dollar question for a lot of so-called liberal people: they can tolerate 'a man thinking she's a woman', but still being attracted to women - that's a step too far for them.

It's what is behind a lot of the problems over access to restrooms because the suspicion is that these "so-called women" are nothing more then predatory men gaining access to women's spaces by deceit. You have to put this mistaken assumption into a bigger context: does an individual really put themselves through all the trauma of coming out as trans*, being shunned by family and friends, being pilloried by strangers and being scrutinized by health care professionals for months, to take a leak in a womens restroom?? FFS. There are easier ways of getting covered in hairspray and discovering some women's hygiene is no better than mens!

But as you've said "we're just like other people" so why wouldn't we be gay or straight? because - Sexuality has NOTHING to do with gender.

So, yea - trans* folk give this issue a good deal of thought.


This. Over and over. Plus a sprinkle of ambiguity in that gender, like sexuality is neither binary nor necessarily static.
__________________
Hey, Yall......I has a thread now! C'mon over... http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=752420



This sig is dedicated to the members of westboro Baptist Church


See ya in Hell, Fuckers!


If You Don't Love The Lord, You're Fuckin' Fucked!

Hit it, Hank....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIlCrhj7mpM

That was crude....ain't there nothin' sacred?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsCWp_MqP-s
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-25-2013, 01:59 PM   #13
blade_rocknut
I is what I is.
 
blade_rocknut's Avatar
 
blade_rocknut is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Flor'da
Posts: 21,668
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickygirl View Post
Perhaps I could ask a question? Do you perceive there being two types of transgender women - the hot shemale with big tits and a dick, always up for sex or the dull, rather plain and icky sort that will never 'pass' ?

I've seen the fantasy girl vids and the idea of 'I like dick but I'm not gay' is nothing new to me and tbh some of those vids are pretty hot. There is a big market for that and it interests me, because I'd love to know how well those girls are paid; if porn was their only route out of a difficult background or if they just love sex. I'm not that into sex for the sake of it, but I'm open-minded and if those girls are happy doing what they're doing then good on them. Any comments?
I don't perceive it as being that simple; there are so many different circumstances. I do agree with your last sentence entirely; though I have to doubt that idealistic situation is all that common. I'm a pessimist, though.
__________________
Hey, Yall......I has a thread now! C'mon over... http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=752420



This sig is dedicated to the members of westboro Baptist Church


See ya in Hell, Fuckers!


If You Don't Love The Lord, You're Fuckin' Fucked!

Hit it, Hank....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIlCrhj7mpM

That was crude....ain't there nothin' sacred?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsCWp_MqP-s
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-25-2013, 04:22 PM   #14
Dyslexicea
Literotica Guru
 
Dyslexicea's Avatar
 
Dyslexicea is offline
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickygirl View Post
Perhaps I could ask a question? Do you perceive there being two types of transgender women - the hot shemale with big tits and a dick, always up for sex or the dull, rather plain and icky sort that will never 'pass' ?

I've seen the fantasy girl vids and the idea of 'I like dick but I'm not gay' is nothing new to me and tbh some of those vids are pretty hot. There is a big market for that and it interests me, because I'd love to know how well those girls are paid; if porn was their only route out of a difficult background or if they just love sex. I'm not that into sex for the sake of it, but I'm open-minded and if those girls are happy doing what they're doing then good on them. Any comments?
Answer to your first question, just a simple no.

As far as the porn goes. I would tend to think, if you're referring to shemale porn it's most likely very profitable. Large demand very few actresses. During college I earned my livelihood in the sex business, not as a porn star or a working girl but I earned at least as much as a well paid porn star. My answer is I did it for the money. At first there were times when it could be stimulating but over time it was just a freaken job that paid well. It did taint my feeling about men, even worse than they already were.

For the most part the sex business is controlled by greedy, sexist men who care nothing for the women who work for them. The few production companies owned, produced and directed by women are rather nice places for a woman to work but there are very few of them.

What you're seeing on the screen is a far cry from what really happens on the set, it's not really about having great sex, believe it or not it's all rather dull.
__________________
"If male homosexuals are called 'gay,' then female homosexuals should be called 'ecstatic!'" - Shelly Roberts

PROUDLY QUEER! HAPPILY LESBIAN!

“Some women can't say the word lesbian...even when their mouth is full of one.” - Kate Clinton


My AH Profile.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-25-2013, 04:51 PM   #15
stickygirl
Smile..it confuses people
 
stickygirl's Avatar
 
stickygirl is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 10,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by blade_rocknut View Post
I don't perceive it as being that simple; there are so many different circumstances. I do agree with your last sentence entirely; though I have to doubt that idealistic situation is all that common. I'm a pessimist, though.
Thanks Blade - I was being intentionally provocative with my descriptions! That's the point that came out earlier: we're just like everyone else in most respects, all different shapes and sizes, each with different aspirations and personalities.
__________________
My stories My stories
A bit more stuff on Tumblr
Ask a MtF trans woman a question
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-25-2013, 05:03 PM   #16
stickygirl
Smile..it confuses people
 
stickygirl's Avatar
 
stickygirl is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 10,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyslexicea View Post
Answer to your first question, just a simple no.
I'm going to have use more intelligent questions methinks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyslexicea View Post
For the most part the sex business is controlled by greedy, sexist men who care nothing for the women who work for them. The few production companies owned, produced and directed by women are rather nice places for a woman to work but there are very few of them.

What you're seeing on the screen is a far cry from what really happens on the set, it's not really about having great sex, believe it or not it's all rather dull.
Thanks Dys
Wow - there are porn companies run by women?! Why don't all the women go work for them - but I guess you go where the work is.

^^^Your last four words "it's all rather dull" Uhuh
but it's true: scene one, seen them all UNLESS there is some decent acting.
__________________
My stories My stories
A bit more stuff on Tumblr
Ask a MtF trans woman a question
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-25-2013, 08:23 PM   #17
naughtyinsilk
Scorpio Sensuality
 
naughtyinsilk's Avatar
 
naughtyinsilk is offline
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: south east england
Posts: 1,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickygirl View Post
Perhaps I could ask a question? Do you perceive there being two types of transgender women - the hot shemale with big tits and a dick, always up for sex or the dull, rather plain and icky sort that will never 'pass' ?
I think there are more than two types tbh, aside from what you have put above, I would say pre transition, partially transitioned and full transitioned to name just 3 more types.

I know of a number of TG, who are living the same kind of normal lives as experienced by other women, one of my best friends, who had the op in the early 80s is a senior staff member in a school, 2 others are teachers, another is an estate agent, they are neither "porn stars nor plain and icky and will never pass" as you put it. They are just everyday women, who happened to be born male.

I know at least two more, who have lived for at least the last 20 years as women fulltime, but have never had any surgery at all, yet many would be surprised if the truth of their originating gender became known.

In my mind there are only two outward genders male and female, and that's all people want to be, they want to be the one that matches the person inside, I believe TG is a label for the process you go through to make them match, its not a gender nor is it a label to describe who you are.

Regardless of what is between your legs you can be either male or female, lets keep it simple an stop using names that isolate and make people unhappy
__________________
Kinky Test Score 792

the electric thrill of a stockinged leg slowly stroking your body, bliss

Last edited by naughtyinsilk : 11-25-2013 at 08:28 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-26-2013, 02:08 AM   #18
stickygirl
Smile..it confuses people
 
stickygirl's Avatar
 
stickygirl is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 10,878
That's exactly it Silky - for many it is a journey, not a 'third sex' as it's often described yet does that restrict people to a binary gender system? For me it is a journey but other people describe themselves as both gender-fluid AND transgender. ( Lets not confuse ourselves with androgynous or we end up listing exceptions to what is 'normal' for transgender people )
I find myself using 'parentheses' a lot here to emphasise exceptions and what is quoted in the media etc. Sorry if that short-hand is irritating but I don't want to be misquoted when I am just making an illustration as with my earlier 'passing' comment.
__________________
My stories My stories
A bit more stuff on Tumblr
Ask a MtF trans woman a question
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-26-2013, 05:38 AM   #19
Bramblethorn
Mallory Heart Surgeon.
 
Bramblethorn's Avatar
 
Bramblethorn is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Australia (occasionally USA)
Posts: 2,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickygirl View Post
Wow - there are porn companies run by women?! Why don't all the women go work for them - but I guess you go where the work is.
Also, it's sometimes hard to tell who you're dealing with - some of the "female-run" stuff is more like "female-fronted". A friend of mine used to work for an erotica company that bills itself as an ethical outfit where most of the employees are women and the models are in control of what they do and don't shoot. From what she said, most of the senior staff were still men, and there was a lot of pressure on models to go beyond their comfort zone.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-26-2013, 10:29 AM   #20
Dyslexicea
Literotica Guru
 
Dyslexicea's Avatar
 
Dyslexicea is offline
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bramblethorn View Post
Also, it's sometimes hard to tell who you're dealing with - some of the "female-run" stuff is more like "female-fronted". A friend of mine used to work for an erotica company that bills itself as an ethical outfit where most of the employees are women and the models are in control of what they do and don't shoot. From what she said, most of the senior staff were still men, and there was a lot of pressure on models to go beyond their comfort zone.
This is part of it but it's more to do with the market and who actually pays for most porn, men. Along with the fact that to produce porn for us it's a lot more work, most of us want more than just one sex scene after another. Important things, like acting, a real plot and characters we can relate to.

Also the film crews actually have to know how to shoot film in the real world not just four or five bedroom sets in a warehouse. What we want(a real movie with sex) versus what men want the production cost are so much higher.

In the Miami area, where I lived and went to school, most women owned, produced and directed porn was marketed to those of us who are lesbian because there is a market, we're not ashamed or afraid of owning and buying porn. Many of those movie are really good films with the added benefit we get to watch real lesbian or bisexual women having real sex.
__________________
"If male homosexuals are called 'gay,' then female homosexuals should be called 'ecstatic!'" - Shelly Roberts

PROUDLY QUEER! HAPPILY LESBIAN!

“Some women can't say the word lesbian...even when their mouth is full of one.” - Kate Clinton


My AH Profile.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-26-2013, 11:04 AM   #21
haurni
Literotica Guru
 
haurni's Avatar
 
haurni is offline
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Safe_Bet View Post
Do MtF's and FtM TGs ever hook up?
I know two FtMs who are together.

---

Um. On to my question.

I understand that the whole 'shemale' thing is just sensationalized male-oriented porn that (like most porn, I guess) doesn't reflect the reality that real (transgender, in this case) people live. I understand that it contributes to the fetishization of transgender people. I further understand that many trans people are uncomfortable with their birth sex (duh) and that the fact that they have genitalia that are inappropriate to their gender is therefore a source of considerably dysphoria.

What, then, is an appropriate way to open a discussion about sex and sexuality with a transgender person without possibly giving offence?

(God, that sounds horribly stupid... )

I expect the answer to be something like 'Very carefully and with respect and sensitivity'...
__________________
"Hell is reserved exclusively for them that believe in it. Further, the lowest Rung in Hell is reserved for them that believe in it on the supposition that they'll go there if they don't."
  • HBT; The Gospel According to Fred, 3:1
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-26-2013, 11:11 AM   #22
Dyslexicea
Literotica Guru
 
Dyslexicea's Avatar
 
Dyslexicea is offline
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by naughtyinsilk View Post
Regardless of what is between your legs you can be either male or female, lets keep it simple an stop using names that isolate and make people unhappy
Before I ask my question I'd like to say for the most part I agree with naughtyinsilk. I don't relate to you in any other way than a woman. Still I do believe you need your label, not for me, not for many like me but for those who don't yet understand. When you speak up, when you educate people who don't yet understand, they need to know you're a woman trapped in the wrong body. They need to know how it's effected your life. Most importantly they need to understand you are a woman.

My question relates to queer theory, specifically the part which contends 'All gender in performance', a theory I personally and ever so strongly contend is bullshit. I'll grant that how we express our gender is influenced by our culture but not our gender. Anyway how do you feel, as a women, gender female trapped in the wrong body, about All Gender is Performance?

I'm including an article by Julia Serano but please answer before you read it.
__________________
"If male homosexuals are called 'gay,' then female homosexuals should be called 'ecstatic!'" - Shelly Roberts

PROUDLY QUEER! HAPPILY LESBIAN!

“Some women can't say the word lesbian...even when their mouth is full of one.” - Kate Clinton


My AH Profile.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-26-2013, 11:34 AM   #23
stickygirl
Smile..it confuses people
 
stickygirl's Avatar
 
stickygirl is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 10,878
I've not heard that phrase 'gender is performance' so I'm kinda scratching my head there. I'm aware that Julia Serano is queer and a trans woman and has some quite strong views on how people with her background as regarded in the lesbian community. I've not yet looked at your link ( I promise!! ) but I think I need to understand that theory before being able to respond with my own thoughts :-\

Labels, labels - they cause so much disagreement and discussion but can't Silky and Dys both be right on this? A label should not cause an individual discomfort, but equally within the right context they are useful. The context must surely be an informed, academic discussion where the limitations and qualifications of their meaning are understood, but then what happens? Foul-mouthed Fox TV or some pressure group grabs a sound bite and spins a story out of it - then it does harm people. I had Anti trans group makes up story in mind: a completely fabrication. So academic labels get picked up by haters in the media and there you have the harm.
It's not labels per se, but how they are applied and by whom

I'm just writing something about this D, so give me a few minutes

I'm so sorry I've written so much

Without resorting to googling that phrase, I'll take a punt at it. Gender is performance - meaning we act a role, our gender role, as defined by our culture? In its basic form that would refer to the gender binary, oppositional sexism and all that jazz 'Men are strong so women are weak' - total bullshit. Then it gets more complicated because we start examining if parents imprint a child with their expectations: girls love pink, girls like dollies - those are ideas currently been blown out the water and any parent will testify that their child expressed their gender from before they could talk, because little girls and boys tend to act in particular ways.

So then we're still in trouble, because the parents are now interpreting how their child is acting "He's a typical boy!" and then reinforce it by encouraging particular behaviour. In my case, I pissed off my sister by playing with her toys and ignoring mine, so I was discouraged from doing it because "Those aren't your toys, those are your sisters".

But then the plot thickens because a child wants to please its parents and picks up so quickly how to please, how to avoid disapproval. "If I kick a football around the garden Mum seems happy" but "If I sit at Mum's dresser and put lipstick on, she acts angry in a weird way" sorry, not the best illustrations but you get the point.

So much for childhood performance and how gender expresses itself. I'd agree that culture can steer the way a child develops but it can never overturn what is there from birth, through what must be biology/genes. Those outside influences brought about by nurture or culture can force a trans person to hide their feelings, but they nearly always emerge sooner or later as a rebellion: that's why so many trans come out when they are teenagers, because finding yourself, rebelling, is all part of being a teen. Those YouTube-famous pre teen kids who express their gender from a very early age are just amazing - their kung fu is so strong - and they each have understanding and supportive families. Not all TGs are so lucky and instead have their sex-gender beaten into them. Suicide rates - enough said.

But as for queer theory, TBH I'm still a bit stuck guessing what that is about after all ^^^ this ramble. Sorry!! Sex and sexuality are not my strong points - I've only had one serious relationship, with a man. It was exciting in every way, most importantly to find I could be the object of someone's love - which itself is pretty intoxicating huh? Do I find women sexually attractive? Of course, but do they press all buttons for me sexually, emotionally? Well… you know that depends totally on the person. We are not made of stone, we are soft, pliable, fleshy bodies and why should our brains, our hearts or our desires be any less flexible? I'm a scientist and I'm trained to question. History has shown time and again that rigid, inflexible ideas and theories nearly always end up on their ass. So I approach my sex life in a similar way "This is the best I know right now, so this is how I live my life - if you've got a different idea, then I'd love to hear about it." But I would never question my gender - I just know it.

From what I've read of Serano's work, she challenges the lazy thinking that group mentality is inclined to produce. Individuals don't like to be the odd-one-out with their thinking - they want to be accepted, so they cow-tow and fit in and as a result the group develops a core of beliefs that remain sacred: to challenge them is heresy. I'm pleased you've referred to Serano because I admire her tremendously. Perhaps as an outsider, she is in a unique position to question: she finds herself excluded because of her 'male energy' even though her treatment at the hands of the patriarchy has been considerably worse than for many cis-gender women?

Shit I ramble SO badly. And I still haven't answered the queer theory thing. 2/10 Miss Sticky and a Fail!

One last thing - really 'Woman trapped in a the wrong body' *sigh* Who came up with that? It's almost as tired as a lesbian just needs the right man…

Can I look at the link yet??
__________________
My stories My stories
A bit more stuff on Tumblr
Ask a MtF trans woman a question

Last edited by stickygirl : 11-26-2013 at 07:02 PM. Reason: ETA a shit load of rambling stuff
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-26-2013, 12:17 PM   #24
stickygirl
Smile..it confuses people
 
stickygirl's Avatar
 
stickygirl is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 10,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by haurni View Post
I know two FtMs who are together.

---

Um. On to my question.

I understand that the whole 'shemale' thing is just sensationalized male-oriented porn that (like most porn, I guess) doesn't reflect the reality that real (transgender, in this case) people live. I understand that it contributes to the fetishization of transgender people. I further understand that many trans people are uncomfortable with their birth sex (duh) and that the fact that they have genitalia that are inappropriate to their gender is therefore a source of considerably dysphoria.

What, then, is an appropriate way to open a discussion about sex and sexuality with a transgender person without possibly giving offence?

(God, that sounds horribly stupid... )

I expect the answer to be something like 'Very carefully and with respect and sensitivity'...
But why would you want to discuss it? This is the thing I get really needled by "So you still have a dick right?" from people who have known me five minutes, just long enough for me to see their cogs whirring. I don't mean you in particular Haurni, but people in general.
Why risk offence by raising a topic which is none of your business? You wouldn't ask a cis-woman if she was menstruating today or if she has breast implants. Take my point? It's just embarrassing, really seriously embarrassing!!

Here's my advice:
Use the right pronouns
Don't ever ask about her genitals - if it needs to be discussed, she'll mention she's transgender and "Do you want to ask any questions?" Then, if you want to be supercool and really put her at ease, you might say "Don't worry - we can work it out as we go along. Would you like another drink?"
Don't ask what her name was before

Instead, why not really make her day: open a door for her, ask her about her job, what she does at weekends - you know just stuff! We love ordinary stuff
Our biggest fear is telling someone we're trans* and then getting beaten up for being a 'trap'. Fuck - that is one label from hell.
__________________
My stories My stories
A bit more stuff on Tumblr
Ask a MtF trans woman a question
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-26-2013, 02:44 PM   #25
haurni
Literotica Guru
 
haurni's Avatar
 
haurni is offline
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 715
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickygirl View Post
But why would you want to discuss it? This is the thing I get really needled by "So you still have a dick right?" from people who have known me five minutes, just long enough for me to see their cogs whirring.
Ah, no, that's totally not what I meant. I meant in the context of being sexually intimate with a trans person (which could be online, eg. cybering/sexting, as well as in person).

Quote:
Originally Posted by stickygirl View Post
Don't ever ask about her genitals - if it needs to be discussed, she'll mention she's transgender and "Do you want to ask any questions?" Then, if you want to be supercool and really put her at ease, you might say "Don't worry - we can work it out as we go along. Would you like another drink?"
This is more what I meant.

I was cybering once with a MtF acquaintance and we were getting up under her skirt. I just sort of left things vague until she mentioned the specifics, but if she hadn't said anything then I might have had to ask a question about what she wanted and how she'd like to play the scene. Up to this point, my experiences with trans people have been overwhelmingly limited to online interactions. I guess that, in a cybering situation with no advance discussion, the best question would probably be "What would you like me to do for you?" Obviously, the situation in reality would be somewhat different, but then there would be physical cues (eg. turning away) if she wasn't comfortable with me going there.

And I've probably been waaaaay overthinking this.
__________________
"Hell is reserved exclusively for them that believe in it. Further, the lowest Rung in Hell is reserved for them that believe in it on the supposition that they'll go there if they don't."
  • HBT; The Gospel According to Fred, 3:1
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:56 PM.

Copyright 1998-2013 Literotica Online. Literotica is a registered trademark.