Phraseology Tidbits

[sr71plt]

Nothing's being towed:

The phrase meaning "conforming to a standard" is "toe the line." The origin was from lining up for a foot race.

When you "tow the line" you are pulling a barge on a canal.

[RedMonkeyButt]

Originally Posted by sr71plt

Nothing's being towed:

The phrase meaning "conforming to a standard" is "toe the line." The origin was from lining up for a foot race.

When you "tow the line" you are pulling a barge on a canal.

Toeing the line also refers to the military. When you come to attention, you put the toes of your boots even with a line on the floor (most often a grout line if you're in a building) and that way the entire front of the line is even. In the absence of a line to toe, you look left and right and get as close to even with your neighbors as possible.

[sr71plt]

No real cats die from the phrase "more than one way to skin a cat" but some fish do. The term comes from the tough skin needing to be peeled from a catfish before it is grilled. (But, since catfish are also known as chuckleheads, perhaps they deserve to be skinned and grilled.)

[mynameisben]

For all intensive porpoises, I could care less.

[sr71plt]

The origin of the term "Hear! Hear!" (often misrendered as "here, here") is the British Parliament in the 17th century, when another expression of agreement was needed when applause was banned from the house. The original expression was "Hear him! Hear him!," but by the 18th century the parliamentarians were getting tired of saying that and cut it down to "Hear! Hear!"

[rosco rathbone]

Originally Posted by sr71plt

No real cats die from the phrase "more than one way to skin a cat" but some fish do. The term comes from the tough skin needing to be peeled from a catfish before it is grilled. (But, since catfish are also known as chuckleheads, perhaps they deserve to be skinned and grilled.)

Or, as my old work partner from Belize used to say "there's more than nine ways to kill a cat".

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by rosco rathbone

Or, as my old work partner from Belize used to say "there's more than nine ways to kill a cat".

That's a good one.

[elfin_odalisque]

Originally Posted by sr71plt

Nothing's being towed:

The phrase meaning "conforming to a standard" is "toe the line." The origin was from lining up for a foot race.

When you "tow the line" you are pulling a barge on a canal.

Well, no, actually. The expression originated from the British Navy where non-commissioned sailors stood for attention whilst being inspected by officers.

Please don't post false information.

[elfin_odalisque]

Just also, "tow the line" is a misunderstanding from 'toe'. sr's explanation is gibberish, not even supported by wiki.

Now believe his grammar comments, or what?

[sr71plt]

The phrase "Calling a Spade a Spade," meaning baldly identifying something, doesn't have the origin that many--perhaps most--think it does. But, since it's taken by many as a racial slur no matter its true origins, it's perhaps best avoided in writing.

Its actual origin is to a Greek expression translated "to call a fig a fig, a trough a trough," with "trough" eventually became another Greek word for "digging tool," which then became translated as "spade."

[sr71plt]

My primary source for this thread is Barbara Ann Kipfer (PhD), The Definitive Compendium of Phraseology, Naperville, Ill: Sourcebooks, Inc., 2008.

One of the reasons I started this thread was to check out whether anything I posted, no matter how innocuous and directly related to writing--and well sourced--would be attacked by my harassers. Guess we know the answer to that now.

I'll continue posting, using good sources. You can take what interests you and harass me on the rest.

[mynameisben]

Originally Posted by sr71plt

My primary source for this thread is Barbara Ann Kipfer (PhD), The Definitive Compendium of Phraseology, Naperville, Ill: Sourcebooks, Inc., 2008.

One of the reasons I started this thread was to check out whether anything I posted, no matter how innocuous and directly related to writing--and well sourced--would be attacked by my harassers. Guess we know the answer to that now.

Hear! Here! (I do love hedging my bets). Keep up the good work, SR. I'm enjoying this thread. And thanks for the reference. I may mosey over to Amazon and pick up a copy of that book, if it's still in print.

There will always be those chomping at the bit to demonstrate their phraseology omniscience. Send in the Correctors.

[PennLady]

Originally Posted by elfin_odalisque

Well, no, actually. The expression originated from the British Navy where non-commissioned sailors stood for attention whilst being inspected by officers.

Please don't post false information.

It's quite possible that it has a couple of originating places. What's the source on this one?

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by PennLady

It's quite possible that it has a couple of originating places. What's the source on this one?

(raises hand) I think I know.

[elfin_odalisque]

The Edinburgh Literary Journal in 1831 gave the line that sailors stood behind for inspection as 'toeing the line' and later references explained that 'towing' was a mistake.

Nothing to do with a foot race and 'towing the line' has nothing to do with barges and canals. It is just a mistake.

[PennLady]

Looks like "toe the line" may have a couple of sources. Wiki's page includes this:

The most likely origins of the term go back to the usage of the wooden ships in the Royal Navy. Barefooted seamen had to stand at attention for inspection and had to line up on deck along the seams of the wooden planks, hence to "toe the line" [2] Over the years the term has been attributed to sports, including toeing the starting line in track events and toeing a center line in boxing which boxers were instructed to line up on either side of to start a match.

Could be that some people know it from one source, some from another.

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by PennLady

Could be that some people know it from one source, some from another.

Or that Greek race runners predate British sailors.

It's sort of irrelevant in this case. The point of the post was that it's "toe the line," not "tow the line" (which I've seen recently in copy). And the point of Elfin's post wasn't to dig up the earliest origin of the phrase either.

But I'll just continue to post them (mostly from Kipfer's book, with some help from Webster's on usage), and concentrating on ones I've encountered misused . . . and Elfin can keep on sniping.

[PennLady]

I've seen "tow the line" as well and that always makes me pause and fix it in my head.

[sr71plt]

I guess I could also say that, of course a nineteenth-century British source claims a British origin. That's what British sources did in the nineteenth century.

But primarily this just shows how silly and nasty Elfin is.

[mynameisben]

My great grandpappy once told me that when he was a youngin' he'd often take a nap in his boat while waiting for the fish to cooperate. Not wanting to let that bait stealin' Big One slip away while he snoozed, he threaded his fishing line between the toes of his bare feet so that any tugging might awaken him to the fight. All his friends did the same thing. He said he was reluctant to employ the technique at first, fearing a particularly powerful fish might sever his big toe. But peer pressure has always been an ominous force. Eventually he, too, toed the line.

[sr71plt]

And your great grandpappy was a British sailor. So, there you go.

[lovecraft68]

Originally Posted by sr71plt

The phrase "Calling a Spade a Spade," meaning baldly identifying something, doesn't have the origin that many--perhaps most--think it does. But, since it's taken by many as a racial slur no matter its true origins, it's perhaps best avoided in writing.

Its actual origin is to a Greek expression translated "to call a fig a fig, a trough a trough," with "trough" eventually became another Greek word for "digging tool," which then became translated as "spade."

It's actually a very good expression to use in writing because it is always seen as having a racist connotation. When I say writing I'm not necessarily speaking of erotica which is more about fun, but in fiction it is a great phrase for that reason.

[lovecraft68]

Originally Posted by PennLady

Looks like "toe the line" may have a couple of sources. Wiki's page includes this:



Could be that some people know it from one source, some from another.

It very well could be different sources. Each of course claiming it as their own. But if SR read it in a book and he's saying it, it has to be true.

Expressions are like old wives tales and mythology you can try to narrow it down, but who the hell really knows?

Pandora unleashed sin on the world by opening a box, Eve did it by giving Adam an apple. Both ridiculous stories, but take your pick.

[palisa]

SR has two main issues:

-- His sources are always definitive, while yours are shit.

-- The fight always starts when someone hits him back.

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by palisa

SR has two main issues:

-- His sources are always definitive, while yours are shit.

-- The fight always starts when someone hits him back.

Hits me back? Reading comprehension problems? Both Elfin and you hit first.

But I gave you an opportunity to be snotty, so all good, right?

Elfin didn't say I had a bad source; she said I had no source. And I'll continue to use it for this thread, because I think the discussion of phrases is interesting and I'm accustomed to unprovoked harassment such as yours.